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Encryption Security

What's The Future of DRM? 374

Cdgod asks: "I am working on a thesis regarding DRM (Digital Rights Management). I would like to get it published and instead of having the regular recycled net material, I would like to hear opinions and thoughts on how it should and could work. Think 20 years in the future, how can you see your world with DRM in place? Will it cost you a few pennies every time you look for the time on your watch? Are you limited to only coping that CD 3 times before it is locked forever? Can you think of uses where DRM will actually give the user more rights? Try to think outside the current models in place, such as video on demand, purchasing music online, and DRM e-books. And yes, I will be arguing that the current laws are not taking the user's point of view, but of the large media companies." My personal thoughts on Digital Rights Management (copy protection, for laymen) is that as long as it interferes with the user's use of the material, it's not worthwhile. Most of the current solutions which have been proposed seem more like draconian measures that will be forced down our throats...whether we like it or not.
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What's The Future of DRM?

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  • by Tom7 ( 102298 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:07PM (#2416370) Homepage Journal

    One thing DRM might do is enable me to share my personal information privately with one entity, without fear that the entity could share it with others. (That is, if DRM could work.)

    That might be good, but I'm much happier with the world we live in now!
  • by dave-fu ( 86011 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:11PM (#2416395) Homepage Journal
    Think that, except for firemen coming in to regularly set fire to all your media. No matter if you're grandfathered or not: there exists the picture of impropriety, so better to err on the side of safety.
  • by sterno ( 16320 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:12PM (#2416398) Homepage
    Have you ever used Emusic? You pay like $10/month and you get access to everything in their catalog. It's all MP3 so I could certainly distribute it all over creation, but why would I? If somebody else wants to hear the music they can get their own subscription. It's very easy for me to share a few songs with friends which gets them interested in the bands and gets them signing up for the service.

    A thing I've noticed in my personal use of Emusic is that I've discovered music by a lot of obscure bands I never heard of that I like. I mean since I'm paying for it anyhow it's worth it to me to download a whole album by some band I've never heard of. I can just delete it when I don't want it. Why go buy the new album from some big name band for $15+ when I can download music for free?

    Trying to impose pay-per-use technology on music is just going to turn people off to it. If you want proof of people's reaction to this, just look at DivX. People like to own things, and they hate having to deal with complex rights mangement architectures. The only way you could find a DRM that would be really appealing to people would be one that's transparent, but by it's nature it can't be transparent because it has to stop me from doing something forbidden by the publisher.

    If The big RIAA labels opened up their collections to me and charged me like $15-20/month to download all I want, I'd be all over that. But if they had some goofy DRM technology on the music, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
  • by Bonker ( 243350 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:12PM (#2416402)
    If I were to look 20-30 years down the road at a U.S. ruled by DRM via laws like the SSSCA, I would have to say it would be a pretty sad place. First of all, you have a generation of people who will have grown up beleiving that its normal to have to pay for *any* kind of information, and then think its taboo to share that information.

    People will collaborate less and will have learned that it's 'wrong' to pass along data or information of any kind. This kind of mentality will manifest itself in an atmosphere where it's considered morally and ethically wrong to try to do things without doing them in the approved (legal or corporate) manner. I don't see a lot of technical or scientific innovation coming from people who have this mindset.

    The Dark Ages was a fairly direct result of the Catholic Church's desire to control information, in their case, religious doctrine. The crusades brutally crushed scientific, philosophical, and mathmatic progress in the middle east. Human progress came to a virtual halt for several centuries.

    This is the same thing. Instead of a rich, powerful church, we have a oligarchy of rich, powerful corporations who beleive it is in their best interest to control information of any kind, be it entertainment, scientific data, math, or any kind of production algorithm. The future is grim indeed if these companies get their way.

    The renaissance, the richest period of exploration and innovation in human history happened when the controls imposed by the Catholic church started to break down and both religous and scientific information began to flow freely.

    Freedom of Information == Human Progress and Advancement

    Proprietary Information == Fear, Paranoia, Superstition, and Human Misery
  • by NevarMore ( 248971 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:12PM (#2416404) Homepage Journal
    Presently, I'm trying very hard to not download any music from Napsteresque programs because I want the artists to recieve some money for thier work. Fairtunes.com didnt seem to have a working list the last few times i went to it, so at the moment I dont have an option other than paying for CDs.

    When I listen to music, read a great essay, hit a good webpage or what have you. I want the artist/author/composer/creator to know that I liked thier work, and if it's a means for them to earn money I'd like to see that they get some, be it a tip jar, banner ad, or just paypaling them a few bucks.

    The system where an artist creates a work and then gets less than 5% of the final sale price back from the publisher is wrong. The publishers and promoters should work for the artists not the other way around.
  • Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sllort ( 442574 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:15PM (#2416419) Homepage Journal
    Can you think of uses where DRM will actually give the user more rights?

    No.
  • Re:The future? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bteeter ( 25807 ) <(brian) (at) (brianteeter.com)> on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:17PM (#2416434)

    I don't think so. Lawmakers who support the draconian DRM measures will be voted out of office, and they will be replaced with more citizen friendly policies.

    Laws that are passed which overstep the rights of citizens will be repealed by courts.

    Users will choose not to purchase and use DRM protected media. (Remember DIVX?)

    Savvy users will break the DRM Schemes and post the cracks to the net effectively destroying the technology.

    DRM won't work. It has no benefits to end users, no one wants it and everyone will resist it. Its a bad idea, plain and simple.

    Take care,

    Brian
    --
    100% Linux Based Web Hosting: http://www.assortedinternet.com/hosting/ [assortedinternet.com]

  • by saridder ( 103936 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:18PM (#2416443) Homepage
    DIVX would have taken off if it was the only option. DRM will, in my opinion, be the only option available. Companies will love the idea of total control of their "intelectual property".

    Subscriptions to web sites and software will be seen as the norm, and probably the same thing. The idea of a static "page" will be obsolete by 20 years, replaced by audio, video, applications, etc.

    TV will have merged with the net by then, probalby broadband wireless everywhere, with the terrabyte links at home still comming over your private SONET connection to Microsoft/AT&T DigitalMedia corp.

    Think of it as pay-per-view and subscription everywhere, wheter it's music, movies, or software. It's gonna suck big time.
  • If and only if... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by beowulf_26 ( 512332 ) <.moc.liamtoh. .ta. .62_fluwoeb.> on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:24PM (#2416477) Homepage
    DRM can help consumers by lowering the cost of a products due to the fact publishers won't feel the need to overcome losses from piracy.

    However, DRM in my opinion, is only useful if it meets the following conditions:

    Is transparent to the user.

    Requires no processor overhead.

    Is secure. (increasingly difficult, arguably impossible) If the DRM is circumventable it's pointless.

    It's cheap, and doesn't raise the cost of the medium. If it's costing more to protect it than it's saving, it doesn't belong there.

    It must allow at least one copy to be made.
    All in all, that's a very tall order. So I doubt any time within the next ten years these things will be realized. Until then, consumers will continue to scream bloody murder.

  • by Col. Klink (retired) ( 11632 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:29PM (#2416507)
    There's a story of a king who passed an edict forbidding the tide from rising. He sent his soldiers to the beach with orders to beat the ocean back if it didn't obey the edict. The King was trying to make a point that even he, the almighty King, could not alter the forces of nature by a simple decree.

    Imagining a world where successful DRM laws exist is no different than imagining the world if the ocean had been held to the King's edict.

    I could be wrong. I suppose if all hardware manufacturing was nationalized, borders were sealed, and prisons were cleared of drug users (to make room for copyright offenders), it may be possible to put digital media genie back in the bottle.

    If it is possible to have successful DRM, I guess imagining the future would be like imagining the present if the printing press had been outlawed by the Monks who were put out of business by it.
  • by MrResistor ( 120588 ) <peterahoff@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:30PM (#2416516) Homepage
    ...lies with hardware manufacturers, in my opinion. The only reason macrovision works for VHS is because hardware manufacturers support it, and I think the same will ultimately be true of all forms of DRM. It will be a sad day when I have to pay extra for a hard drive that will allow me to access my data however and whenever I want to, and I think the chances of that day coming are about 50-50. That balance will be upset by judicial decisions made in the DeCSS and Skylarov cases (the Napster case recently threw an interesting curve-ball [slashdot.org], we'll have to see how that plays out), and given the apparent pro-Corporate slant of the current judiciary I don't have high hopes.

  • Unified royalty (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Skapare ( 16644 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:34PM (#2416534) Homepage

    In the end, DRM management will hinder, not help, even those who seek to profit from their creative works. The petty steps needed to make use of copyrighted material under DRM will ultimately have to give way to yet another system I see as the ultimate answer. Such a system will have to be a broad subscription based scheme, where instead of paying specifically for each creative work, you end up paying a general rate, and then have access to all those works. The authors and publishers then earn from that based on the proportion of how much their works are used. Even a random sampling of 5% of usage would give a fairly accurate measure of proportion for the various works to determine how much each author and publisher is paid.

    Take a look at some of the big MP3 collectors. There are some people with over 100 gigabytes of downloaded music. At the statutory wholesale publisher rates paid through HFA, this comes to over US$100,000. The retail value of such collections could be US$1,000,000. And it would take months just to listen to everything once. But these are people who would not go buy all that at $12/CD. They aren't downloading it to be able to listen to it all, but for the stud factor of having an awesome jukebox. Eventually we will reach a point where we can have any creative work delivered in real time whenever we want, and even mobile at some point. We'll be paying for delivery of content, not the scale of the choices. Many of the downloads now are to achieve scale of choices, and that will be greater as bandwidths and storage leaps allow, but eventually it might not be needed (except for those unwilling to pay a dime).

    Imagine paying a rate about the same as cable TV or internet access that lets you listen to any music you want, any time you want, anywhere you want. Whether you listen to the same 5 tunes over and over, or jump around among 100 genres, your rate would be about the same since it would be based on what is delivered, and at most you could listen to about 43,200 minutes a month (there might be a lower price for listening to less). Once this kind of service is available, there won't be much value in actually storing the music. As long as the pricing structure is based on fixed time, rather than how many different tunes you have access to but rarely listen to, it will beat not only most piracy, but also recorded media sales (why buy 1000 CDs if you typically listen to about 20 of them?).

    It might still take another decade for the music industry to get a clue and try to build it this way. Last mile bandwidth is not there yet, especially mobile, for everyone. And then it might take a few more years for the motion picture industry to "get it", too. But eventually it will have to happen. DRM will then simply be a yes or no question.

    The system won't be totally perfect. There will be those unwilling to subscribe at all, and will still steal music. There may be privacy issues regarding what we listen to. Some of this can be addressed by legislation (whether we agree that it should or not). Some of this can be addressed by the open market. And some of this can be addressed by technology. The delivery is certain to be encrypted. The ability to decrypt it is certain to be isolated to hardware like portable players and sound cards in your computer (the software would just be shuttling an encrypted data stream through, and hence open source operating systems won't be a risk). Time window based encryption would prevent storing the data for later playback (and this defeat delayed leakage to non-payers). Interim technology could allow doing a combination of storing encrypted streams with live delivery of a time window based key (and the hardware still does the work).

    Given this, storage of music by consumers won't be needed, and thus DRM will be moot. This is still a few years off, but mark my word, it is coming as soon as entertainment executives figure it out for themselves.

  • Idealy... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by powerlinekid ( 442532 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:36PM (#2416542)
    I would think that the best solution for the users would be if DRM was done away with all together and we lived in a society (world) of free information and media. However these are just dreams and the fact is that the dmca is going to be tough to get rid of. With that in mind here might be some changes that would make things more "friendly" for the user.

    1) I have a real problem with the current protection scheme on cds and dvds (computer or audio/video, games it doesn't matter). The problem is that current laws seem to say that when you purchase this media that you are entitled to the actual physical disk and whatever media is included on it. So if you buy a game and it becomes damaged then you're out the money you paid for that game. I believe that this hurts the user and saves the company, as in these licenses suck. I personally feel that the physical disk should not have anything to do with this when you purchase something and that you are entitled to the media. Hence you should be allowed to make backups of everything you own that is software related. Currently somethings work under this (you can make copies of cds on tape as long as you don't sell them, and roms are legal as long as you own the game although I believe emulators are not *shrugs shoulders*), however dvds don't and in the future more stuff should be going to dvd. Of course if I want to illegally make copies I can (theres all kinds of stuff out there to do this) but you should see my point that I should not have to illegally do anything to something I own.

    2) Streaming media will probably end up a rental or subscription fee which I'm not sure if I have a good argument against at this moment. I mean its hard to argue with video stores and thats how I see most of that going.

    3) E-books have proven to be just a bad idea anyway. Nobody (apologies to those who are e-book fans) seems to care all that much when titles are still printed paper. Eventally I'd imagine that the publishers in time will start to only release large amounts (not just some Steven King book) of books to e-book, forcing people to switch. However, if I have a friend and I recommend and own a book, I'll let them borrow it. Will e-books work the same? Can you trade materials as long as you don't sell them. I have a feeling this is going to be an ugly fight.

    4)Software subscription (ala Microsoft) is not going to work even if forced. Look I love linux but I know its currently not ready for the masses. However Microsoft's idea of a Microsoft Bill (like a cable or telephone bill) is just alittle to ambitious and I'd imagine that this is going to hurt them. On a side note, if Microsoft benefits from its monopoly then how can they justifiably argue that distributing copies of pirated windows hurts them?

    Media protection is definitly going to become an interesting topic of discussion over the next 20 years or so. I wonder if we'll start to see different licenses as we do in the computer world (digital media is nowhere near as old as computer software... with the first cases being cds about 10-15 years ago). Will some publishers allow a GPL type license, who knows... all I know is that these laws have to stop because ultimately the user gets hurt.

    ps - I think its funny if a company gains enough market share to be called a monopoly then the govt claim them to be detrimental to competetion. But if a bunch of companies (collusion) gain up to start a board (hmm... sony, sharp, etc and dvd technology) that regulates what you can and can not do with something and what companies can and cannot do with something (why don't we see any legal open source dvd plays? because the damn license fees cost a fortune for css) then thats legal. Well... maybe us users should start the coalition for user rights (sort of like a union) to keep a say in what rights the company and the users have.

    ok, i'm done... oh my bad about posting this twice, I screwed up the first time.
  • Where will DRM go? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by way0utwest ( 451944 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:36PM (#2416544)
    Of the top of my head...

    One DRM will continue to advance. Artists and others who wish to produce media/works deserve to be compensated if they wish. The question becomes how we handle this. In my ideal world...

    -- Non-encrypted formats will continue to exist for those who choose to distribute this way.
    -- EncrypteOf the top of my head...

    One DRM will continue to advance. Artists and others who wish to produce media/works deserve to be compensated if they wish. The question becomes how we handle this. In my ideal world...

    -- Non-encrypted formats will continue to exist for those who choose to distribute this way.
    -- Encrypted formats will be built for new media (video/audio/stills) that is difficult to crack (nothing is impossible). These formats will require the use of an authentication for an individual using their hardware of choice along with some type of smart card along with a password/pin. The item will be usable for some number of times/length of time. This will be some small payment amount, similar to micro payments.
    -- We will get some type of "key" downloaded onto the hardware. This key can be transferred to someone else WITHOUT cost. If I purchase an old Beatles song and decide a month later that I don't want it, I should be able to "give" this to my co-worker. We easily connect our hardware devices together and I "give" him my key. No longer can I play the work. Perhaps he even "buys" the song for half price and I can then repurchase if I wish.
    -- Patents/copyrights will have their length shortened. Perhaps we need to develop different lengths for different media. Movies are copyrighted for 5 yrs. Music, 3 yrs. These are just ideas, personally I am not sure what lengths I'd like.
    -- Items that lose their copyright/patent will be released into the public deomain. Once in the public domain, anyone can distribute/reformat/alter the works, though they cannot be resold commercially without some compensation to the author. Perhaps the reuse should be 10% of the cost of current media?
    -- What if I could "rent" a song, say the new CD from Brittany Spears for my son for 3 months. Suppose if cost $2. I could drop this onto an MP3 player for him, or perhaps it would be automatically burned on my Sony DRM machine (that cost $200) onto a CD that would work for 3 months. I'd do it. He'd be tired of it after that. What if I could "reactivate" that CD next year for $1 for another 3 or 6 months. It's still be worth it.
    -- Relatively few of us actually copy CDs for others. Once (if in the real world) media companies recognize this, they will start to actually develop programs that people will use (and want to use). My time is more valuable and I'd tell a friend to buy his own copy.

    Don't forget the following when exmaining DRM

    -- It must be convenient to be successful. If it is difficult for me to use, I will not use it and commerically it will not succeed. If my mom can purchase a music CD (online, download, etc) easily and it costs $1 to listen to 10 times, or for a week, and it is a simple button push, she'll do it. If it requires efforts to use or circumvent, she won't use it.
    -- The economy of defeating the encryption must be below that of using it. I've downloaded movies (that are in theaters) from the Internet and viewed them. They suck. The quality is so far below that of renting from Blockbuster or going to see the movie, it's not worth the cost. Audio is different, but there will be some economy of scale that works.
    -- No encrpytion is foolproof
    -- 90% (or so) of people will be defeated by minimal encrpytion
    -- 1% (or so) of people will never be defeated by ANY encrpytion
    -- 9% (or so) of people will take advantage of the work of the 1% to defeat encryption.

    These are some quick thoughts, and I really welcome feedback. If DRM is really to move forward (not just get implemented), everyone has to have realistic discussion of the rights of everyone, artists, consumers, and companies.
  • Back to basics (Score:4, Insightful)

    by tmoertel ( 38456 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:37PM (#2416550) Homepage Journal
    I don't know what the future of DRM will be, but I know what it should be. It should be something that primarily promotes the public good. As such, it ought to reflect an exhaustive re-examination of the concept of a "copyright".

    Originally intended to provide a public benefit -- to encourage and promote the widespread availability of information -- copyright law has been distorted to the point where it allows a powerful few organizations to control vast seas information, allowing access only those who can pay fees that are often unreasonable. Gone, too, are the days when we could realistically expect copyrighted material to be contributed to the public domain after a reasonable period of time. Our national concept of "copyright" is a perversion.

    Before we legislate "rights management" into hardware, we ought to ask why we have these "rights" anyway. And if the answer isn't solely to promote the public good, we should do away with them.

  • by SilentChris ( 452960 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:37PM (#2416554) Homepage
    "Most of the current solutions which have been proposed seem more like draconian measures that will be forced down our throats...whether we like it or not."

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's not draconian if you have a choice, and you do have a choice in the matter based on your wallet.

    Don't like the DRM measures coming forth on CDs? Don't buy the CDs. Don't even listen to the music. While some pop bands are obviously a profit-centered venture, most artists actually *do* want you to listen to their music; measures taken to stop this listening will not only hurt the labels in the pocketbooks, but also get the artists themselves to argue against whatever measures are being taken to reduce public listening.

    Also, let me just say that paying "a few pennies every time you look for the time on your watch" is X-Fileish and activistic to the extreme. Obviously this is not going to happen. Do you think high-level executives in the government and military personnel (to cite recent events) would ever warrant this?

    For that matter, I'm a firm believer that the subscription plans in place now (like cell phone bills) will eventually be dwindled to nothing based on current competition. There are only so many minutes a cell phone company can provide in a month. After a while you hit limits, and gradually the costs erode to practically nothing (similar to water and electricity, communication will eventually become publically-owned).

  • by BranMan ( 29917 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:38PM (#2416560)

    I think the real outcome would be that the US gets marginalized. If we stifle the very openness and sharing that now occurs, and that keeps the US at the head of the pack in science, industry, military technologies, etc., other nations (europe perhaps, or Japan) will pass us by.

    The Dark Ages only occurred because the Church was a universal influence, and so retarded every nation. If the US imposes such restrictions on ourselves alone, we'll be passed by - Americans will go abroad to do research, start companies, etc.

    Hopefully saner heads will prevail in the end. I sure hope so.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:53PM (#2416631)
    as long as they can read it, it is possible for them to share it. Shit... view their cc#/thesis/whatever on your monitor and copy it down on a pad of paper. Then, the information is out of their control. DRM will just make it harder and make the quality of the copies worse (ie: no perfect digital copy). I see how it could be usefull (you can't sketch a movie and pointing a video camera at your screen isn't going to give a hq copy), but there is no way that they can totally prevent copying and distribution.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 11, 2001 @02:57PM (#2416661)
    with a very simple question: "Does this particular law increase the freedoms or quality of life for the majority of individuals it will apply to?" Traffic laws are a good example. The law that says you must drive on the right (in the U.S.) increases your freedom to move about by reducing the chance that some other fool will be driving on the left. Laws that are passed to increase someone's profits do not pass this test. Laws that increase someone's profits are the direct result of political bribery, and political bribery is a fact of life in the U.S. of A.
  • by 4of12 ( 97621 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @03:00PM (#2416689) Homepage Journal

    Public key encryption would prevent 3rd parties from eavesdropping, but would NOT stop the 2nd party (the receiver) from sharing the unencrypted data with others whom the first party does not want the information to be shared with.

    Unless, of course, DRM is taken to the extreme.

    What would be the extreme, you ask?

    To insure that only the purchasing individual receives the content, it would be necessary for each individual to receive their own, unique content stream that cannot be interpreted by any other individual, i.e.

    each individual is taught their own individual language, one that no other can understand except for a machine
    This would insure that e-magazine articles that I read would be useless to anyone else.

    This would insure the kind of lock-down that RIAA and MPAA would love to have, the kind of lock-down on identification and use that mass marketers would love to have, and the kind of lock-down that any authoritarian government would love to have.

    Granted, it's extreme and practically unimplementable - yet.

    I think that in the long run people will find the restrictions too cumbersome on their everyday lives and freedom of expression. As in, "whaddya mean I hafta to send in a credit card number to authorize a MS Passport so that my mother-in-law can properly play the home movie that I just sent to her over the internet?"

    I think you'll find tension between content purveyors and the public at large for some years to come. You won't have to pay to look at your watch - money, that is. But expect your watch dial to include payment options in the form of advertising that you are forced to endure.

    P.S. You gotta love the cute use of words. This "Digital Rights Management" is certifiably fluffy. Better to call it that than something I would propose as more accurate, such as "Content Use Restriction", or CUR:)

  • by jsproul ( 4589 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @03:02PM (#2416694) Homepage
    That depends on how the compromise is drawn. Consider the position of the framers of the U.S. Constitution: from a natural rights perspective, all expressions of ideas, works of art, etc. covered by copyright are free to be shared and copied as desired. However, the framers also understood that taking this approach would not maximize the amount of intellectual "property" or "content" available to the public.

    The founders' response was a compromise between the natural rights and the best interests of the people. They allowed useful, novel ideas such as machines to be patented, or writings and art to be copyrighted, granting a monopoly for a limited time. The key here is the "limited times" clause. By making sure that works would eventually enter the public domain, the founders gave inventors, artists, and publishers a compelling reason to fully disclose their inventions and publish their works: monopoly profits. In exchange for the protection of patents and copyrights, the owners agreed to release all claims on the works after a period of time.

    This compromise was a stroke of genius, as it balanced the need to provide incentives to creators and distributors of ideas to maximize their production with the natural rights of the people. Unfortunately, the founders left it up to Congress to define what the "limited times" clause meant. The Supreme Court has ruled that this clause allows Congress to set any non-infinite period without violating the Constitution. The Court cannot set a maximum period on its own authority because that would violate the separation of powers between legislative and judicial branches.

    The problem with current DRM schemes, the DMCA, and the SSSCA is that they completely ignore the natural rights of the people. Intellectual "property" corporations like publishers, movie studios, and conglomerates (AOL Time Warner, Viacom) have spent the last two centuries trying to indoctrinate people with the belief that intellectual property is a natural right. The repeated extensions of copyright terms during the 20th century suggests they are winning.

    However, a DRM system consistent with the framers' intent would be beneficial to everyone. Digital media technologies have undermined the balance between natural rights and maximizing available content. Current DRM systems and supporting legislation go too far in the opposite direction, undermining the peoples' natural rights.

    What we need is a DRM system that works to maintain the framers' compromise, rather than benefitting either side. It should ensure that fair uses are permitted, that works enter the public domain when their copyright expires, and that creators are given the necessary returns from their work to ensure a vital public discourse.

    This suggests that legitimate DRMs must codify ideas like limiting the number of serial copies (copies of copies of...) that may be made, but must also codify the right to view at any time after purchase, the right to transfer ownership to another person, etc. The Congress has thus far failed to strike this balance because they have not been educated about its importance.

    DRMs do not have to be totally secure; that is unnecessary and probably impossible. However, they do need to be sufficiently secure that the cost of circumventing them is prohibitive. (Should circumvention tools be legal or illegal? I'm not sure.) I believe such a level of security is attainable and sufficient in the general case, because people value their time.

    This is as far as I've been able to get, but I think it's a good starting point for a reasoned, non-kneejerk discussion of copyrights and intellectual "property" in the digital age. I look forward to reading comments and followups to these ideas. DRMs need not be the end of the world.
  • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Thursday October 11, 2001 @03:04PM (#2416704) Homepage Journal

    The question is, can anyone put together a DRM system which will work, for all values of the word 'work'? In other words, a portable system for digital rights management which can be used for all [relevant] types of media, on all [relevant] types of device, which does not incur any [significant] additional cost to anyone.

    With all that said, I think that it is clear that DRM will always be defeatable. The issue is making it undefeatable *enough*. There is literally no way to prevent people from copying media unless you control all parts of the work stream. That means the content creation, signing, storage, and playback all have to be controlled by whoever ultimately owns the rights. But if you can make it so that, for example, the only place you can get the unencrypted digital information is at the speakers, and make it expensive enough to get the data out, it will discourage 99% of the people.

    This is why the RIAA is so concerned about mp3 music; It sounds fantastic (at high enough bitrates, or with VBRE), has no DRM, and is easy to get your hands on. A friend of mine (grin) has downloaded some 14 CDs worth of music which he likes in the last week and a half, from USENET's alt.binaries hierarchy alone. If he liked, he could also get similar quantities from FTP sites, lists of which are maintained by bots on various Irc channels. Oh, and that's mp3s, not CDDA, naturally, so figure about 9 or 10:1 since most of them are 160 or 192 Kbps.

    We're all familiar with the bad side of DRM, mainly that you can't copy your data, which prevents you from listening to it with any decent quality on a range of equipment, and that if you lose the key, you're in trouble. Certainly those two issues need to be addressed in any successful DRM scheme.

    But what we [geeks] at large tend to forget is that DRM could be a good thing. DRM is coming whether we like it or not, much like splitting the atom, or the use of fossil fuels, or even irrigation - All three of those things have caused harm to people and the environment that will take decades if not centuries to repair, if we begin now. But all of those things can be used for good, and so can DRM.

    For instance, a scheme like Circuit Sh!tty's Divx (Not DivX ;-)) could actually be good for customers, but it fell short of the mark in every way. First of all, they can keep records of what you watch, when you watch it. Second of all, the quality was poor. Third, it only worked on their players.

    I cannot personally envision a DRM scheme which will be successful which will not involve the first of those issues. You cannot come up with a serious DRM scheme which is not easy to break without central management. For portable devices with only analog output, you can check rights when music is transferred to the device. Everything else either is now connected to the 'net, or soon will be, so this is not a serious limitation.

    As for the privacy issues resulting from a central server, I don't see any true resolution to that one for the paranoid. If you were truly given to flights of fancy, you might project a future which had (among the other currently existing classes) two groups of people; Those whose lives are transparent, and those whose are opaque. The opaques will use only open source software, hardware, and so on, which doesn't do any reporting; They will have their privacy and thus their freedom, but will miss out on quite a bit of innovation. The transparent people will be tools of the media and government, much like they are now :) Their minds will be precisely targeted by advertisers and states which know exactly what they want, and when they want it, what they like, what they are doing... Terrifying, really.

    I do not, however, see that as a real possibilty. What I would like to see (In the US anyway; I hope the rest of you get something like this too) is federal law requiring that any records pertaining to you be opened to you at no charge so you can see just what they are collecting. In addition, you should be able to find out who else has access to this information, and who is looking at it. You can then choose who to do business with it based on their privacy policies. In other words, any file with your name on it should be provided to you at no cost. Restricting access to such records to internet or walk-in only is reasonable, as anyone can go into a library and use a computer.

    We, the people of the world tend to forget that collectively, we are the ones with the power. Any time you get enough people to group together, you can make things happen. I don't have advice on how to educate the "common man" on DRM issues, but I assure you that it will become an important part of how all of us live our lives, hopefully in a very transparent manner. Of course, in that transparency lies the inherent danger of DRM, so there needs to be some method of oversight.

  • by Dr. Awktagon ( 233360 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @03:24PM (#2416805) Homepage
    That's impossible, the other person will just write it down on a piece of paper and give it to someone else, or let someone else read over their shoulder.

    That's what "information wants to be free" means..you can't prevent that sort of thing by doing something to the information itself.

    You have to trust the person you give it to.

    Of course, if what you're trying to keep private is being sold on CDs down at the record store, there's no way to control every single person who gets it. That's why DRM for that purpose is and always will be a laughable failure.
  • by Bat_Masterson ( 250306 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @03:28PM (#2416817)

    Asking about "digital" rights management, is short-sighted as the rights management issue will extend beyond the digital realm with the introduction of nanotech. Consider:

    • Blood donations to save lives will become a thing of the past as blood will have nanotech machines in it and the corporation(s) creating those machines will not allow such violation of their copyright.
    • Imagine genetic manipulation of cells being used to prevent diseases and having the customer pay per cell so manipulated.
    • Simply shaking hands could become a copyright violation as cells with nanotech machines in them will be exchanged.
    • Developing new nanotech devices will become highly problematic due to the ubiquitousness of well-written, copyrighted software code underlying it.
    • Manufacturing will require more extensive special permits to ensure that the nanotech assemblers are not used in a way that violates copyright

    Given time, you could probably think of many more.

  • Re:The future? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by debest ( 471937 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @03:40PM (#2416868)
    In a utopian world, your take is correct. But I'm afraid that we are moving to a more Orwellian future than you think.

    Citizen-friendly lawmakers? How far did Nader get in the last election? The "mainstream" parties will continue into the forseeable future, with no real differences between them. Corporate interest will be bought and paid for regardless of the party in power.

    Laws repealed by courts? Maybe, but don't count on it given how the DeCSS case went. Even if the Supreme Court does strike them down, I wouldn't put it past the conglomerates and Congress to amend the Constitution, if that's what's required to control "free" speech.

    Users choose not to purchase? You're assuming there will be an alternative (DIVX vs DVD). It will soon be the only choice.

    Of course users will break the technology. And they'll keep it to themselves because they'll go to JAIL if they don't!

    But you are partially right: DRM has no benefits to end users, and no one wants it. But resist it? Not likely. The quiet 99% will swallow what the industry & government tell them, and the other 1% will either keep their mouths shut or be prosecuted.

    Lovely.

    Darren Best
  • by schon ( 31600 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @03:52PM (#2416917)
    in order to have a truly "strong" DRM system, you have to tack on strong encryption

    This is the most fundamental failing of DRM, and why (in it's current form,) it will never work.

    At it's most basic level, encryption (weak or strong) is designed to allow person A to send something to person B without anyone else (person C) being able to view it.

    It is not designed to allow person A to decide when and how person B can view it, or whether person B can send it to someone else.

    These are two VERY different goals. In the first example, once person B has the data, s/he can view it any time they want, rewrite or mangle, or even send it to someone else (with or without encryption.)

    If the goal of DRM is to prevent person B copying the content, then there is no technical way of doing it.

    To quote Bruce Schneier, trying to make bits not copyable is like trying to make water not wet. Encrypting the data will not alter this fact.

    The problem is, nobody has come up with a way to make bits uncopyable - and the people who believe that encryption will do this simply don't understand encryption.
  • by Spinality ( 214521 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @03:57PM (#2416937) Homepage
    Here is an observation that doesn't get stated very often. Look back 40-50 years and earlier: everybody played an instrument socially, and everybody either was in a band or knew somebody in a band. Making music was part of normal people's lives. High school dances always had live bands. Every hotel had a trio or quartet playing in the lobby bar. Most restaurants had live music. People collected and hoarded records and sheet music, but there was intense competition for record and sheet music sales. A record that sold a million copies was an incredible success. Radio stations played wildly diverse music programs.

    Fast forward to the 80's and 90's through today. Hardly anybody plays an instrument. It is virtually impossible to make a living as a working musician. DJ's and CD's are vastly preferred to live bands. A small pool of incredibly-successful performers -- performance corporations, really -- dominate the airwaves and the music stores. A mere million-seller is a disappointment. Great musicians can't find work, and play their music as part-time hobbies.

    What changed? A few things.

    1. Powerful music publishers and distributors now control the industry more tightly than did the old Hollywood studio system.

    2. Changes in IP laws have essentially eliminated the concept of 'public domain,' except for very old music, making some of the cornerstones of music illegal unless license fees are paid: theme-and-variations, quoting material from other songs (a fundamental jazz technique), quoting lyrics, and performing or adapting music written by others. It's hard and expensive to follow today's complex licensing and performance rules. Why bother? Buy Musak.

    3. The industry's stranglehold on performance and publication has generated enough profits to allow manipulation of public taste. At this point, a public has been molded that doesn't want to hear a local band playing at a bar, but instead demands concerts with superstars, light shows, pyrotechnics and other special effects, performing exactly what was heard on MTV, preferably using lipsynching to ensure that no differences exist. This is *not* intrinsically the way public taste would have developed without guidance by the industry.

    This is a complex issue, and obviously many other aspects of our lives and cultures have changed dramatically since WWII. However, the death of musicmaking as a core feature of USA life is a tragedy, and I'm convinced that neverending copyrights and powerful publishers take major responsibility. They claim to help performers, but instead they have contributed to the destruction of music as a profession and the elimination of all but mass-produced music in the lives of most of us.

  • DRM Issues (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Gleef ( 86 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @05:32PM (#2417308) Homepage
    There are two huge daunting problems with DRM, both technical and social in nature.

    Technical Issues:

    Most DRM suffer from a fatal flaw. They trust the client (hardware, software or individual) to manage rights properly. For example, CSS counts on the DVD player to keep both the CSS algorhithm and the encryption keys secret. Any such system will be cracked eventually. Once cracked, the only way to keep it from being worthless is to legally enforce totalitarian control over information distribution.

    For DRM to function as advertised, there needs to be a server in place to handle authentication and authorization of clients. Few DRM systems are set up this way (Two examples: Automated Cable TV Pay-Per-View systems and Circuit City's Divx system being one example).

    Social Issues:

    People don't like to have rights taken away. If they've been able to do something before, and they're told they aren't allowed to anymore, they get upset. DRM systems will not be accepted if they're being used to remove rights.

    Similarly, if there is are two competing systems, and one uses DRM to make things more restrictive than the other system, it will greatly hurt acceptance. For example, DVDs and Divx disks were in direct competition. Both use DRM, but DVD's DRM system is much less intrusive than Divx's was. The only advantage Divx offered was slightly better prices (at least when first introduced). Most people are willing to pay a little bit extra to not have to worry about making phone calls and expiration dates.

    Let's look at a successful DRM system. Most cable companies allow you to purchase pay-per-view events through the cable box, this is a DRM system. You hit a couple of buttons, your cable box contacts the server, the server verifies that you are allowed to view pay-per-view, charges your next bill, and sends your cable box the key to access the particular show you requested.

    While the system isn't perfect, it shows the halmarks of what I consider to be requirements for a successful DRM system:
    * It allows you to do something you otherwise couldn't do (watch almost new movies or events without leaving your sofa).
    * All critical security issues are handled on the server side (yes, except for channel lockout, I said it wasn't perfect)
    * It's easy to use (12:00 flashers can even order pay-per-view)
    * It makes use of an existing business arrangement, so there are not financial or contractual issues to iron out
    * It makes use of an existing data connection, so there are no privacy issues to iron out (they already know who you are and what you're watching)

    I think we are going to see more and more DRM systems in the near future. Assuming that most civil liberties stand in most countries (at least most of those with a consumer market), I think most DRM systems will fail, badly. The few that survive will have many of the same things going for it that pay-per-view has now.
  • Re:The future? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mpe ( 36238 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @06:08PM (#2417410)
    With fewer and fewer Americans voting, and more and more money spent on lobbyists,

    Note that there may well be positive feedback going on here.
  • by mpe ( 36238 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @06:36PM (#2417530)
    There's a story of a king who passed an edict forbidding the tide from rising. He sent his soldiers to the beach with orders to beat the ocean back if it didn't obey the edict. The King was trying to make a point that even he, the almighty King, could not alter the forces of nature by a simple decree.
    Imagining a world where successful DRM laws exist is no different than imagining the world if the ocean had been held to the King's edict.


    Maybe a closer analogy would be Japan's outlawing of firearms which actually worked. Until the US navy turned up with guns accurate at a range far longer than any Japanese weapons.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 11, 2001 @07:51PM (#2417724)
    You're forgetting that the same hands that buy SSSCA, DMCA et al are also busy pumping up the WTO, the WIPO, and getting every nation in the world to sign up on these ridiculous things - even nations that don't have clean water are expected to obey American copyright laws!

    American laws may have only national reach, but the WTO is the Church that you fear.

    Incidentally, Europe is a continent, not a nation.

  • Re:The future? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Jason Earl ( 1894 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @08:05PM (#2417759) Homepage Journal

    I share at least some of your skepticism about U.S. law makers. The mere fact that there are even a few law makers that think that the SSSCA is a good idea, should make all of us pause and think about the safety of our society.

    However, I don't personally think that laws like the SSSCA will shield the entertainment industry from a serious turn of affairs. Laws like the SSSCA make it harder and harder to copy copyrighted works, but that is a small part of the battle. A much larger concern, especially for the music industry, is how easy it is to create and distribute the material. Right now, to get your music, movie, book, or whatever into the hands of the American consumer you have to sell your soul to the devil, but that is changing.

    Slashdot is an excellent example of how the Internet is leveling the playing field. A couple of punk kids from Michigan have created a site that is more widely read than many very expensive publishing industry ventures. Journalists have been the first to switch over to the web, but it won't be too long before novelists, musicians, and even movie producers also start to take a look at the powerful distribution method that is the Internet.

    Heck, I have already read two novels that were released on the Internet because the writers couldn't find a publisher. One of them was even pretty good :). And there is literally an entire world of music written by artists that want you to download their music. Even movies aren't really that safe. In ten years every teenage kid is going to have enough computer power to create and render realistic digital movies, and he or she will probably have enough bandwidth to consider sharing their work as well.

    The high costs of distribution (and in the case of movies the high cost of creation) is what has created the necessity for the big production houses with their massive investments, and disgustingly large margins. But it is getting easier and easier to distribute and promote your art over the Internet.

    How much longer are we really going to need the entertainment companies? Your guess is as good as mine, but I can guarantee that the harder they squeeze the faster we will find a way to reward the artists, novelists, musicians, and actors directly, without their help.

  • Re:Also (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Wolfier ( 94144 ) on Friday October 12, 2001 @12:56AM (#2418612)
    You comment touches a nerve.

    What is "Digital Rights"?

    Is it my right that I need to know, and get to choose what is installed on my hard drives?

    I'd love to see laws that protect our hard drives from being installed spywares, marketing softwares, junks that is vastly inferior to the competition and I don't want to use (e.g. MSN Messanger) and propaganda materials (Software channels, AOL portal links, etc.)

    I think I have the "Digital Right" to manage my hard disk space, every byte of which I bought with my own money. Same goes for RAM. I DO hope laws will be passed soon that respect my rights.

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