twilightzero asks:
"Recently a friend of mine who is chief engineer at a medium size recording studio/radio station has become increasingly unhappy with Windows (and would like to stay away from Macs) and has asked me if there is any sort of professional audio solution for Linux. Has anybody, anywhere ever tried this? Is it possible to buy a pro audio card with Linux drivers and just run Sound Forge in WINE or do you need an entirely native package?" This is one of those questions that just needs to be answered. What Open Source sound packages out there are good enough for even the professionals to use when they need to make their squeaks, squeals, and whistles. Also, what can they use to put their created sounds together into some semblance of music?
As an addendum, coasterfreak asks: "Being an avid Linux user and composer is a bit of a problem right now. I've never run across any decent music creation programs for Linux. I've used Finale and Cakewalk before, but have yet to see them for Linux. I've heard rumors of something coming from the Debain crew, but nothing more than rumors." Can anyone confirm or deny them?
Just as a bit of a helpful hint, how many of you have tried Audacity yet? It looks to be a fairly feature rich sound editor, and it supports mixing tracks, plugin sound effects, and is cross platform, to boot! Maybe this is a decent spring board for those of you looking to start experimenting with sound under Linux, but I'm not quite sure it's ready for professionals yet...this based on the version number of 0.97 rather than any actual experience, so I'd take the word of those who have said they have used it rather than mine. It would be great if Audacity is further along than it looks.
Linuxsound.at (Score:5, Informative)
Have fun!
Obligitory book link.. (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/18864113
Macs? (Score:4, Informative)
Pure Data, Jmax (Score:5, Informative)
There is an audio solution for hardcore sound designers, it's called pd or Pure Data.
It's basically an attempt at an open source version of Max/MSP which is a program that is mac only and is used by groups like Autechre, Aphex Twin...
What PD is is a visual object oriented music "programing" language. It lets you build synths, midi controlers, do math, store data, create generative (algorythmic) music, do interactive composition...
here is a good link on PD:
http://wonk.epy.co.at/
Demudi (Score:5, Informative)
The GNU/Linux operating system is widely known as a robust base for running Internet servers, but has not reached yet a similar audience as a platform of choice for the musician and the multimedia artist. The DeMuDi project targets one reason of this issue, the lack of a GNU/Linux distribution oriented toward music and multimedia.
The Demudi project (for Debian Multimedia Distribution) aims to provide for the musician and artist a GNU/Linux distribution dedicated to music and multimedia that would ease installing and customizing GNU/Linux for their needs. Demudi is not actually a distribution in itself. Taking advantage of the existing Debian distribution, it enhances a Debian distribution by a collection of packages containing music and multimedia applications or development tools. The Debian distribution has been chosen, because it is the only distribution that is developed entirely by volunteers over the Internet, just like a significant part of the GNU system, the Linux kernel and many applications. Additionally, it supports several different hardware architectures.
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Yes, I'm an AC - No, I don't feel like registering!
I don't know of the software side, but (Score:5, Informative)
Their driver support for Windows is okay, but I believe their Linux support may well be binary only. That said, their drivers generally don't suck.
I'm not affiliated with them -- just a happy home user who enjoys using their pro-level cards for cleaner sound output under Windoze.
Try this: (Score:2, Informative)
Even though it uses its own file format (PRAF) you can import
Screen shots and more info can be found on the Protux home page. [sourceforge.net]
Pro support seems to be very limited (Score:2, Informative)
This isn't meant as a flame, or a troll, it's just the truth. It's time to start turning the screws on the big vendors to start making their high-end sound drivers available for Linux, even if they are simply binary drivers only.
Soundcard: M-Audio (Score:4, Informative)
Don't use windows emulators (Score:4, Informative)
MacCentral: Mac OS X great for pro audio (Score:3, Informative)
Apple betting audio pros will like Mac OS X 10.1 [macworld.com]
Interesting article for those interested in professional audio under a well-supported non-Windows Unix-based OS.
Some helpful places to check out: (Score:5, Informative)
That might be a little pessimistic, but there's some truth to it. However, there is usable software out there, even if it is not done. Broadcast 2000 was aimed at video editing, but was apparently useful for audio as well. Ardor is a hard disk recorder package. There's a lot of stuff out there - heck, just search Google and Sourceforge.
The ALSA project http://www.alsa-project.org/ [alsa-project.org] is an important site if you are looking for pro audio Linux drivers and software.
Now, about the hardware: http://www.linuxdj.com/audio/lad/ [linuxdj.com] is a place to start.
Also check out http://www.boosthardware.com/LAU/Linux_Audio_User
The M-Audio [midiman.net] pro hardware has a lot of good cards [northernsounds.com] - everything from an inexpensive 24 bit / 96 Khz DA
The RME Hammerfall card is also supported under Linux. Other quality hardware (from Echo and other companies) is unfortunately not so well supported.
Personally, I'm planning on getting one of the M-Audio cards just for playing with.
Relevant Linux Journal article (Score:4, Informative)
Linux Driver Support (Score:1, Informative)
I've been in the Pro-audio industry for years, and I've never heard of a studio running Linux. I've been pressuring the company I work for to come out with Linux support, but after a real cost/benefit analysis, they never go for it.
Luke Deniston
Technical Manager
Ego Sys, Inc.
http://www.egosys.net
Audacity (Score:5, Informative)
While Audacity is nowhere near being a complete replacement for a full set of commercial audio tools, I believe it's one of the best editors available for Linux today and has a lot of potential to be extremely competitive with commercial multitrack audio solutions within the next year or two. Here's what it has going for it:
(For those of you who have tried the current release (0.97) and are having audio I/O problems on Linux, rest assured that the latest version in CVS has much improved audio I/O and should solve all of those problems and more...)
There are three or four active developers of Audacity, and another dozen or so people who contribute code or bug fixes from time to time. We're definitely interested in more help - visit the web site and contact us if you're a C++ whiz (or have some other skill which might be useful for us) and want to join the team!
Re:Pure Data, Jmax (Score:2, Informative)
Jmax is the same kind of deal, and the GUI is built in Java, so they call it Jmax. it runs on linux and windows.
Both pd and jmax can be used on Mac OS X, if you tweak them a bit.
Note that neither pd nor jmax have quite the robust roster of externals/objects that Max/MSP have, but they are open source and pretty functional, from what I understand from people who are hardcore about these things.
Re:Linuxsound.at (Score:2, Informative)
When Avid came out with their AudioVision tool as well as a broadcast quality video editor, this is really what trashed the industry. Instead of needing a $500k-$3M system to do it all, you could now set up a whole post suite in a clost for less than $100k. This was easier to set up, so all the engineers with tons of experience started losing their $50-$100 jobs to less experienced "kids" that were happy to make $15-$25 an hour. The value of experience was thrown out the window.
So next time you hear a radio ad or TV commercial that has loud digital hiss, you know that its because some film-school puke didn't have enough experience to know that a DAT should be copied digtially rather than through the analog inputs. Same with crappy TV commercials that sound like the mic was at the bottom of a trash can while the actor was talking.
waiting for Cakewalk Sonar (Score:4, Informative)
My only complaint is that while the software is sturdy, the operating system under it isn't. More than once, Windows has "burped" in the middle of critical recordings. I recently set up a church with RealAudio Producer for Linux for precisely that reason. I didn't want an operating system getting in the way of a 20 minute sermon.
My hope is that Greg H. get's the innovation bug that's made him a hero in the industry, and provide a Linux solution. When that happens, you can kiss Windows goodbye in my own studio.
Pro Audio (Score:3, Informative)
Is it possible to buy a pro audio card with Linux drivers and just run Sound Forge in WINE
Last time I checked, Sound Forge was not something to be used for PRO audio.
Re:what about latency issues? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Linuxsound.at (Score:2, Informative)
that's what most Linux users have against any software/hardware/OS. (or is that most
Yes, they are probably the best source for professional audio but the cost of an Intel based machine w/Linux is far better than a Mac.
Money is everything. I wonder if the RIAA uses Macs,
Re:Pure Data, Jmax (Score:2, Informative)
happy noise-making!
Re:Some helpful places to check out: (Score:2, Informative)
Actually, the Linux kernel with ALSA might support many older cards better than the current Windows drivers. Some features for the Soundblaster Live! and a few more high-end cards are still underway, though..
Audio latency (Score:5, Informative)
There's a paper, Audio Latency Measurements of Desktop Operating Systems [jhu.edu], which might give you some useful information. Mac OS X's CoreAudio provided the most consistant latencies regardless of loads, although a suitably patched Linux 2.4 kernel has better latencies under no-load conditions.
"All of the current desktop operating systems offer excellent latency performance under some conditions, though most of them cannot deliver this performance in all situations. This is a substantial improvement over previous results (Brandt and Dannenberg 1998; Freed, Chaudhary, and Davila 1997), but because of the inconsistency of the results more improvement is necessary before reliable low-latency performance can be expected from desktop operating systems.
"In conclusion, Linux showed the best performance in the tests without load while MacOS X showed the best performance in the tests with load. Windows and MacOS 8 and 9 produced some of the best results when using a professional soundcard with the ASIO API but showed poor performance when using the standard APIs and consumer-grade soundcards."
MacOS X Latency (Score:5, Informative)
In tests, audio was sampled at 44.1KHz with 16-bit or 24-bit precision. Apple's machines were the only ones on test that didn't require a soundcard.
The best latency test results for systems without load were as follows (time in milliseconds);
- Mac OS X running on a 400MHz G4: 2.83 ms.
- Soundcraft Desk: 1.81 ms.
- 933MHz Pentium 3 running Linux 2.4.1 with a third party audio software patch: 2.72 ms.
- 933MHz Pentium 3 running Linux: 2.72ms.
Mac OS X performed outstandingly when under system load. It offered the same latency speed as before - 2.83 ms. Previous competitors in the unloaded category dropped out of sight. Its nearest rival (with 4.3ms) was again Linux 2.4.1 OS, this time running on a dual processor Pentium 3 with a pro audio card installed and additional software.
The article was authored by:
Karl MacMillan, Michael Droettboom and Ichiro Fujinaga of the Peabody Institute - part of John Hopkins University in the US.
You may also want to look at the following links:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/technologies/audio.
http://developer.apple.com/audio/
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0110/05.aud
You may not like the Mac or the MacOS but I would have to say that OS X looks like it has a very, very good chance of holding onto and attracting a large chunk of the audio market.
I am not a Mac/Linux/Windows fanatic, just someone who uses the best tool for the job and to me it appears like in the near future OS X will be the system of choice for audio professionals.
Re:I don't know of the software side, but (Score:2, Informative)
Apple OS X probably your best choice (Score:2, Informative)
Apple betting audio pros will like Mac OS X 10.1 [macworld.com]
I don't quite understand it all but it seems OS X is built for sound from the ground up.
Re:No real sound cards (Score:1, Informative)
I bought an rme card for those very reasons, and encourage other fellow musicians to do the same.
Re:No real sound cards (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, if you check the list at opensound.com, [opensound.com] you'll see that they support the whole Delta series of cards, with a few limitations; M Audio have even advertised Linux compatibility in their recent print ads.
You'll also find support for the RME Digi/32 series & the Digi/96 series, all very fine cards. Also, they have recently added support for the Hoontech DSP24, which is a 8x8 24-bit card with a companion A/D & D/A converter box, not too unlike the Echo Layla. So, there are options at least on the semi-pro level.
And as for ProTools, the changes in the underlying audio handling in OS X means that, at the moment, ProTools is completely unsupported. It relies on a proprietary interface, and an Apple rep said in the recent EQ Magazine that they have no intention of supporting proprietary hardware interfaces - that will be up to ProTools to do. They probably will, since the bulk of their users are probably on Macs, but it's not native by any means.
not entirely true (Score:1, Informative)
Don't know how midi fits into this, though.
Unfortunately, all of this requires ALSA, which is not the easiest road, even for techies. It's closing in on stability, but finding info is a chore.
Pro/Semi-Pro (Score:2, Informative)
I ended up plunking down the cash for a Roland VS-1880 and have never looked back since. They are not cheap, but dedicated hard disk based digital recorders are rock solid. I still use a PC for creating/warping out samples before I load them into a keyboard, and of course, I use them to take my final tracks and rip them to MP3, but I don't think I will ever trust a PC again for digital multitrack audio recording.
Re:No real sound cards (Score:2, Informative)
Now I don't know about you, but RME is better than any of the brands you mentioned (In my opinion of course). And motu doesn't write very good drivers for any platform. But that's beside the point.
The Mac is not going to last forever as the leader of this race. Steinberg Canada has already stated that Windows 2000 is their preferred platform for stability and speed. Not to mention price of course (not the price of windows but the hardware).
I've talked to several Yamaha Techs from Japan who say the same thing.
Now I agree with you that OSX kicks ass in many ways. But Linux on a PC kicks even more ass. The raw speed, the choice of hardware, and the *ahem* choice of OS.