Professional Audio on Linux?

twilightzero asks: "Recently a friend of mine who is chief engineer at a medium size recording studio/radio station has become increasingly unhappy with Windows (and would like to stay away from Macs) and has asked me if there is any sort of professional audio solution for Linux. Has anybody, anywhere ever tried this? Is it possible to buy a pro audio card with Linux drivers and just run Sound Forge in WINE or do you need an entirely native package?" This is one of those questions that just needs to be answered. What Open Source sound packages out there are good enough for even the professionals to use when they need to make their squeaks, squeals, and whistles. Also, what can they use to put their created sounds together into some semblance of music?

As an addendum, coasterfreak asks: "Being an avid Linux user and composer is a bit of a problem right now. I've never run across any decent music creation programs for Linux. I've used Finale and Cakewalk before, but have yet to see them for Linux. I've heard rumors of something coming from the Debain crew, but nothing more than rumors." Can anyone confirm or deny them?

Just as a bit of a helpful hint, how many of you have tried Audacity yet? It looks to be a fairly feature rich sound editor, and it supports mixing tracks, plugin sound effects, and is cross platform, to boot! Maybe this is a decent spring board for those of you looking to start experimenting with sound under Linux, but I'm not quite sure it's ready for professionals yet...this based on the version number of 0.97 rather than any actual experience, so I'd take the word of those who have said they have used it rather than mine. It would be great if Audacity is further along than it looks.

also, on the general requests.

[AtaruMoroboshi]

I am a serious computer music hobbyist.

I currently run Native Instrument's Reaktor, Propellorheads' Reason & Recycle, U & I's Metasynth, and Bias's Peak on an iBook and an older mac.

I would much rather use open source programs for the simple reason that they would be massively cheaper, in addition to generally being in agreement with open source ideaology.

Here is what is needed:

A good multitrack Midi and hard disk audio recording/sequencing program that is actually as powerful as Logic Audio Gold or Cubase VST 5.0. This is absolutely vital. You need a Logic Audio Platnium or Pro Tools killer to get a serious studio to consider switching to open source and away from the Macintosh.

And you need a useful, well implemented plug in architecture for both virtual instruments and effect processors.

Once you've got that, then people just need to write the virtual instruments and effect processors. :)

Seriously though, the audio stuff running on Macintosh hardware is pretty fabulous, and Mac OS X is extremely suited to audio, able to get latency as low as 1 ms (just like linux.)

Re:Macs?

[jeffy124]

my guess is the bottom line. He probably doesnt want to spend the money in purchasing Apple hardware. So he wants to spend a little on Linux and reuse the hardware he already has that's currently running Windows.

He may also want to retain some things from Windows but not have enough physical desk space for two machines (a Mac and a Windows box). So he can use Linux and dual-boot the two OSs.

Re:Linuxsound.at

[kilgore_47]

Whats the guy got against using a mac?
The mac is a great choice for professional audio.
(or at least a lot of professionals think so)

Linux DJ

[h_box]

I have been using Linux to DJ for about a year now at parties and as a resident at a local club. Linux IMHO is vastly superior as a performance oriented tool, due to it's efficiency and stability. Unfortunately on the music creation and creativity side of things, Windows and even the Mac are still quite a bit easier to get into.

My linux Dj configuration is an IBM thinkpad pentium 2 366. It allows me to re-mix music on the fly and send multiple soundstreams out through some external USB Digital Analog Converters. I run the channels into a standard DJ mixer where I can get twiddly with the EQ's and crossfader and the built in Kaoss effects processor. The software is called GDAM, and is available on sourceforge. Props to the geniuses who wrote the app, they have been very helpful with various problems I have had with older versions when it came to compiling. They have even implemented some of my suggestions into their code over the last year. [song searching case insensitive for example]

The whole thing is running on top of X windows, I use Blackbox to keep resource usage low, and in turn I can re-loop and remix up to 4 soundstreams on the lowly Pentium 2 366 without noticeable latency. I keep notes on my set using VI.

Of course i'm available for certain types of events worldwide. Demonstration sets are available at my website, though I imagine it will get slashdotted pretty quick so be gentle with me.

My sets [shutdown.com]

It's still not there yet..

[Lysol]

Honestly. I've spent many years using various audio packages. first on the mac - cuz it was there wayyyy before pc, esp. with propreitary hardware extensions ala protools, etc - and within the past few years, the pc.
My friend has a studio and a few years ago, i convinced them to dump their protools package (cuz seriously, who wants to be locked in and protools excels at that!) for pc software. over time, we got a decent machine, with full scsi, and started tracking his new project. We used Cool Edit Pro and it started barfing here and there. You can't afford *any* drop outs or variations in a track. otherwise, it's useless.
A few months back, they switched back over to protools on a G4. i think part of their problem was lack of experience tho. they have a 'producer' in now using their equip and he's recorded some major label projects. he likes the setup. so i guess it works. however, it *cost* them quite a bit.
my home studio has a athalon 750, 512mb ram, ata-100 raid 0 40gb hd setup, and - ugh - win98. this is *only* because the company i bought my digi audio card - tascam pci 822 (dont go for that crappy soundblaster stuff, u wanna track 24-bit, at least 44khz, *at least*). that connects into my tascam tmd1000 mixer. this is pretty kick ass for a home/project studio. i actually *read* a lot of stuff for disabling read-ahead cache (bad!) and various other things. At most I've had about 36 tracks of audio goin whithout a hitch. Using Cool Edit Pro as well.
Obviosuly, I'd prefer to use linux, but the drivers and the software are *the* major hitch. I mean, tascam (funny, how there's scam in the middle of their name..) can't even get their shit together to write Win2k drivers (which wld be far more robust than 98). So I think it would be difficult to get the appropriate linux drivers.
I do have faith in Linux tho. Esp since a lot of CG shops are using it more and more. Just needs the software and drivers, thats all. And coming from a analog/mixing board kinda view, the software has to be easy to use. I feel cool edit is pretty straight forwars. I gave up on cakewalk and all those others. I personally don't have much need for midi.
So, remember, if you really care about your proj/home studio, you'll record in at least 24-bit/44khz. And for that u need a beefier card than the crappy sound blasters. And that card will require custom drivers. Kinda a weird cicken and egg syndrome.

Re:Professional software - lawsuit 4 U

[Anonymous Coward]

>The GPL is worthless at protecting you in a high cost environment like professional audio

Hmmm, well, then the answer would be to add a big disclaimer saying:

"This software is not intended for professional use. This software is guaranteed to break under these circumstances. I promise you that this software does not work properly. You must print this message out and send it and your signature on the same paper in to me if you agree. If not, exit the software now"

Sorta like what happens when you buy something that's broken. You're told its busted so don't come crying to me. That and if you tell me you want to use that broken item for a professional purpose I'll tell you "no".

Not too difficult...

Of course the problem comes when a company _thinks_ a disclaimer like that doesn't include them and sues you anyways. I don't think they would be successful -- but you still have to pay court fees. :-(

Of course, you could try to counter-sue on the grounds of them filing a frivilous lawsuit against you, but that's more time and money on your part. Ho Hum. Maybe it would be best to include a function in the source code that causes the software to crash after 10 or 20 seconds -- that way the company has to hack the bad code out and by doing so they both run a modified version and prove that they know the software isn't suitable to their task.

Re:It's still not there yet..

[h4b1t]

dont tell anyone, but alot of tracks u are hearing on vinyl are produced on sub-$300 soundcards on pcs like mine (p3 600mhz, ata33 hds) ive only gotten upto 32 tracks of audio in VST going w/o problems, and then only in win98 w/ latency of about 8-10ms. i personally havent had any dropouts in recording on my dinky ide ata33 setup, but then 16bit 44khz works for me just fine :) so anyways, yeah u probably need to spend 20 grand if u want to be the next BT but you can make some phat trax with just your pc and less than your life-savings worth of cash, ppl do it all the time.

you could always ask people who know ...

[paulbd]

As the author of the RME Hammerfall driver, Ardour (a pro/commercial level DAW for linux), SoftWerk and a bunch of other audio s/w for Linux, and founder of Linux Audio Systems, I probably know at least as much about this as anybody else. the short answer to the question is that at this time, there is no software for Linux suitable for use in a pro-audio setting, if by that you mean a serious multitrack recording studio. many have pointed to Dave Phillips fabulous web pages that list a plethora of linux audio+MIDI applications. there is some great stuff in there, but absolutely none of it would be in any way a replacement or stand-in for ProTools, Logic Audio, Samplitude 24/96, Paris or any of the other DAW systems that studios might consider. the closest to what you're looking for right now is probably MusE, which is a sequence that concentrates on MIDI but has some limited audio capacity. Its under active development. Ardour is closer in theory to what you want, but I cannot suggest that you even try it out at this time, since it can only be built from CVS (no tarballs) and is under even more rapid development than MusE (I think:) Ardour v1.0 is scheduled for some time early this winter. That version will not support MIDI. Other audio editors for Linux include some fine software (snd, in particular), but their functionality is very different (and often much more limited) than the multichannel DAW tools I mentioned above. As long as most audio app authors continue to think in terms of 16 bit stereo interleaved audio, which the vast majority do at this time, the supply of Linux pro-audio applications will be a mere trickle. If you want to ask more specific questions, do write. When Ardour v1.0 appears, my company, Linux Audio Systems, will be selling prebuilt Linux-based hardware DAWs. --p [e-mail]

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Re:Rediculous

[soellman]

A linux solution may be completely free of new costs, sure there's his time, and time to aquaint the talent with the new software, but that would be incurred regardless. A mac solution would involve hardware and software as well.

oh don't fall into the "everything linux is free" trap - in the words of jwz:

linux is only free if your time is of no value

if you have to screw around for 20 hours on a linux box to get everything correct, you could have just bought all the software for a mac/win solution. choose your battles wisely..