Unreasonable Searches When Going to Work? 786
Chico Science asks: "I'm a scientist, not a lawyer, so I'm a little beleaguered by the fact that since 2001-Sep-11, I have been forced to submit to searches on my campus as I enter buildings. I work at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, MD, and have been shouldering the burden of increasingly draconian security measures. Most recently, they've instituted a policy of 100% bag/package searches on entering buildings. Initially it didn't bother me, but after having my bag searched on my way to my car (which was also thoroughly inspected) after work, I decided I'm not comfortable subjecting myself to searches of my personal belongings at every turn. I want to know if I have a right to refuse searches? And why should it be considered acceptable for me to relinquish my Fourth Ammendment rights so I can go work on in my lab?" In this climate of increasing security consciousness, how far can vigilance go before it becomes an invasion of our rights?
Humm check your contract (Score:2, Informative)
Democracy at work (Score:3, Informative)
"We're here to sell things in a democracy, not to practice it."
Manufacturing plants have always had searches like this. You'd be amazed what walks out of the plant in lunchboxes, etc. What is new is that we white collar workers are starting to be subject to the same rules that blue collar workers have had to put up with for decades.
It's a Risk vs Annoyance Thing.... (Score:3, Informative)
I'm more concerned why they're not checking your bags when you exit the buildings!
Truthfully, in the government world (especially in the Intelligence or Defense communities, but I can understand it happening in key health-related establishments like NIH, too), employees are subjected to more stringent security than in most private companies. Mostly, they're restricted to preventing guns going in or information going out.
I wouldn't be surprised if, eventually, the 100% check got reduced to a 50% spot check or something. But the big question still remains -- "how far can vigilance go before it becomes an invasion of our rights?"
I don't have an answer to that. In certain professions, you give up some 4th amendment rights (such as submitting to drug testing if you drive a train), in others, you give up certain rights of association (yes, they still ask you if you belong to the communist party when you get a clearance). I'd say it's a necessary balance between protecting the public (or nation) from risk, and protecting individual rights.
Hopefully, eventually, one will calculate the overall risk to the organization to certain threats. Like, what's the chance of someone bringing in a grenade? What would they have to gain from that action? What's the potential damage? It's a RISK = THREAT * DAMAGE calculation. Then you structure your security program around those calculations, for each risk type.
Eventually, they may determine that the risk associated with not having an in-bound bag check (that is, the sum of all risks that could be averted with such a check) may be at such a level that they can reduce the 100% bag check to a 100% badge check and 10% spot check on bags.
All this is simple risk management theory, though...where, the question was asked, is the line between group and individual rights? I'd suggest that you could perform an "Annoyance" measurement -- multiply frequency of checks by time wasted in line waiting your turn and by embarrasment caused when they find the bottle of, say, viagra in your briefcase, and you get some arbitrary measurement of the "SEARCH COST" against employees. Better to include, also, things like a measure of the chance that employees will get sick of the searches and find a new job, or that productivity will drop due to reduced morale.
The line, then, is when the ANNOYANCE level outweighs the RISK level. Something could be very annoying, like a 100% outbound bag check for departing toxins, but as long as the RISK is very high, it's reasonable. On the other hand, if someone decides to check for explosives in every package within every car upon entry to, say, a desert park where there are no humans for a hundred miles (and, thus, a low risk for harm), then your rights to privacy should win out.
Or something like that. Of course, all the numbers used in such a calculus are totally arbitrary, so it'd also be important to make up-front "value judgements" to calibrate the system against "obvious" cases where a search is good, or where it'd be bad...
You might try skimming FindLaw.com for stuff, I'm sure there's got to be some caselaw or opinions on this. It sort of relates to drug checks, sobriety checkpoints, and workplace monitoring, to some degree.
If you find any very good resources, or get real advice from an attorney, be sure to post a follow-up story...
I work for the Feds, too... (Score:2, Informative)
...and I've been subject to search for years. Lately, for understandable reasons, things have gotten ridiculous. Our guards won't even let you go thru the metal detector with your hands in your pockets. What can you do about this rampant over-reaction? I dunno. I'm searching for answers, too. But I do know that there are a few things to keep in mind.
1. 18 USC 930 defines a weapon and what is prohibited from being brought into a federal building. Don't bother reading it. It's being (illegally) ignored these days and has been replaced by the whim of the contract security guard service, the Federal Protective Service (FPS), or whoever guards your front door.
2. Vehicle searches are the same deal as personal searches. As soon as you get on govt property (the parking lot), you're subject to search. Someone like me who frequently has a rifle or two rattling around in the trunk has to remember when they can go into the parking garage and when then need to park across the street. If you don't like having your car searched, find parking somewhere off govt property.
3. Talking to your Union can help, depending on the Union and the attitudes of the FPS execs in your location. In some cases they can get local management to encourage the guards to lighten up. In other cases (such as mine, unfortunately), the FPS execs seem to get a personal thrill out of telling the agency executives to piss off. At the very least, try to get your Union to negotiate with management an agreement that people will not be disciplined for arriving late to work when the searches get really bad. Such an agreement (or at least the willingness of the Union to bring it up) will help management understand that there's a real price in lost productivity to be paid by going along with excessive searches.
Personally, my biggest worries aren't at work but at the hastily erected "security check points" some businesses are putting up. They aren't doing pat-downs, but some are installing metal detectors. I'm not looking forward to the first time I get trapped and have to go thru the magnetometer at some company office or other public place that lacks the state-mandated signage necessary to prohibit carrying a concealed firearm. I'll be perfectly legal to be armed but the guards will go ape-shit, anyway. Sigh.
Searches and my dad (Score:2, Informative)
Sticky Question (Score:2, Informative)
The long of your question is that the NIH is a special case employer since they are the federal government. The Bill of Rights does not apply to private individuals and organizations, but it does (obviously) apply to the federal government and its agents. This precendent was recently verified in the von Bulow(sp) case. Now, government agency operate in a merky space with which the ACLU has a great wealth of experience. They have lititgated a number of cases on this subject.
These types of searches are completely legal at a private company provided that the right was enumerated in a policy document or employment contract. There is not a private company that I have ever encountered that didn't give itself the right search anything and everything they wanted. Think of it this way, if they listen to your phone calls, read your email, and search your desk, they can search your person so long at its on their property. Also, bear in mind, that it is perfectly legal to sign away your Constitutional rights in a relationship through a contract -- a perfect case in point is private elementary and high schools.
I hope that helps. Good luck.
Re:Sticky Question (Score:1, Informative)
Re:You have a right to refuse searches (Score:2, Informative)
As I was taught in my MBA Business Law class, private companies have the right to require drug tests if they choose, but governmental organizationas do not have the right to require drug testing.
Because of this, I believe the person who asked this question, as a federal employee, has the right to refuse a search without being terminated as a direct result. Remember, they can always find another reason to remove you, so make sure you keep your nose clean in every other way.
If the asker of this question worked for a private company, I would say the opposite.
And remember, folks, surrendering to a search by a government representative without probable cause is a breach of the fourth amendment. Period. Even if you have nothing to hide. Times like these do not automatically allow for the universal interpretation of our constitution to change, but official interpretation of our constitution cannot change without someone fighting what they believe is a transgression of their rights. If you feel your rights are being ignored, take it up with a lawyer, not slashdot. Get the case escalated as high as possible to sustain your interpretation of the right. If the court disagrees with you, it's not because you're wrong, it's because times have changed. They'll probably change back some day.
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Try this (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Make it easier on yourself and them (Score:2, Informative)
Ah, I can see you've never worked for The Feds before. Our friend has exactly two choices:
That's it. I used to be a contractor for the Navy, and every once in a while they would conduct searches like that too. You know what? They were well within their rights, as far as the documents I had signed on joining were concerned.
The point that everyone misses around here is that security people are malajusted, paranoid bastards because they have to be. They do not have a sense of humor.
No recourse (Score:2, Informative)
1) Put up with it. Where I work they do the same thing. So the security guard gets to see my sweaty workout clothes. Big deal. 2) Try to change the system. 3) Quit. I think #1 is the most reasonable choice. If they start doing body cavity searches, then by all means, investigate #2 and #3!
IAAL (Score:1, Informative)
Thank you.
Re:Why does Everything require a Lawyer? (Score:4, Informative)
If you can take out the infantry guarding the mechanized weapon, you can destroy the weapon. If you have small arms, you *can* take out the infantry.
The argument, however, is true. If every block of a city is defended by a modest supply of small arms, the city is unconquerable. Destroyable, perhaps, but unconquerable. If there are enough defenders with guns, and the government-gone-bad doesn't have the will to exterminate the city, the revolution is successful. You can only be conquered if the enemy can send in flesh and blood people to impose their word as law. If you have small arms, you can keep sending those would-be conquerors back home in coffins indefinitely. If the would-be conqueror is not willing to use weapons of mass destruction, they must eventually withdraw.Small arms also tend to keep the police and other government enforcers reasonable. If John Suspect might be carrying a gun, law enforcement won't be nearly so quick to put him in a position where he has nothing left to lose. Ditto for prospective mass murderers, muggers, rapists, and so forth.
Re:freedom vs. security (Score:1, Informative)
just thought I'd let you know,
Case