From Gang Bangers to Web Developers?

evenprime asks: "The Economist is running an article about a program that takes gang members in Milwaukee, sends them through rehab, and teaches them web development so that they can have a decent paying job. I think this type of program - one that gives people the ability to help themselves - is a great idea, and it is something that many of us could help with. Do slashdot readers know of any similar programs in other places? If so, what type of qualifications do you think they would require before allowing someone to help teach web design?" Such programs are just too damned cool. Are there any others like it?

Gang bangers?

[aozilla]

Aren't we being a little presumptuous here? Kind of like saying all members of that linux gang are hackers...

Whoops. Three years late.

[Maggot75]

The terms "Web development" and "Decent paying job" are mutually exclusive these days, neh?

It's a grand idea.

[dave-fu]

Unfortunately, web design? With the advent of WYSIWYG editors like Dreamweaver and the lot and the decline and fall of startup "civilization", the ability to put together a web page won't get these kids too far (the article doesn't mention anything about programming or administration skills above and beyond simple web design being taught).
Slapping a cheap band-aid on a failing educational system ("The city has a 60% high-school dropout rate") won't fix anything permanently. It's nice that he's helped 72 lost youth find gainful employment, but what of the tens of thousands who haven't receieved aftermarket intervention?

It's been done before...

[cobol4me]

Actually, wasn't this how Australia got *it's* start?

Tech skills not enough

[Tassach]

Web development is more than being able to use FrontPage, or even being able to hand-code HTML. Language skills are essential -- an ungrammatical, misspelled web page is unprofessional. Some artistic / asthetic skill is required too -- chosing good color schemes, coming up with an attractive & functional layout, etc.

I think that web development is still a pretty decent entry-level job. While there are not as many new public web sites, most big companies are still investing a lot of time & money in their intranets. Web development is becoming like every other kind of software development -- 90% of it is done for internal company use. That's not going to change anytime soon.

Oh good... more wannabee web developers...

[SwedishChef]

Just what the world needs. I get at least one application every day from "web developers" who want to tap into that vast market for web pages out there. Each and every one has done at least one web page. Some have done two or three. They can all use Frontpage but none of them can read their HTML, few have heard of XML, and they all pronounce Linux "lie-nix".

I know a phone tech who wants $36,000 a year cuz he is "really a web developer". He'd be better off learning what DNS means.

I think the answer to poverty is not quick-and-easy training in some buzz-word technology or how to use some piece of software. I think that the groups involved in leadership of minority groups have to take some responsibility for their own community failings and start to drive their kids towards real, thorough (that means "hard work") education.

Re:So, break laws and get free training

[tomknight]

No, I see nothing wrong with this. I'd feel happy to know my taxes are being spent on something worthwhile (and yes, this is a worthwhile project - anything that gets people involved with education is worthwhile), rather than all the other shitty things my government does with my money.

Would you rather your taxes were spent keeping these kids in prison?

Tom.

Similar outlook, but for profit.

[Benefice_tkn]

Take a look at http://www.citysoft.com/ [citysoft.com]. They've been around for a couple of years and do similar things for Boston, NY, and Baltimore. The interesting thing here is that they try and do it for profit, rather than pure charity.

Re:What websites have they created?

[tomknight]

Is that meant to be irony?

I call the use of cluster bombs evil.

Find out what happens to the unexploded ordinance. These weapons should never be used, and I'm ashamed my country (UK) is given tacit approval of the US's deploymenmt of them.

Tom.

This is what our prison systems should be doing...

[supabeast!]

Right now most nations spend billions of dollars every year filling prisons with people who sit in cages all day watching television. Those people then get released years later, with no new skills, severely damaged social skills, and no real contacts other than criminals they met in prison.

Imagine if, instead of being locked down all day, the US prison population was educated. Classes all day, homework all night. Give them job skills. Rehabilitate criminals into functional members of society so that when they get out they know how to do something other than be a pain in the ass!

Of course, is most of the world this will never happen, because prison building and maintenance is now an important industry, and rehabilitation of criminals is detrimental to construction companies, their employees, police unions and their members, as well as prison employee unions and their members. Welcome the the twenty-first century, where deprivation of human freedom is a commodity.

Re:Whoops. Three years late.

[Magumbo]

Well it depends on your definition of "decent paying job". I think you're confusing "decent paying" and "high paying".

What's a reformed gang banger going to get a legitimate job doing? Suppose he/she has been Livin tha Gangsta Life(TM) since a young age, and maybe doesn't have a solid education beyond, say, elementary or junior high. What options would be available? Fast food? Secretarial work? Telemarketing? Various forms of manual labor? Now, what do jobs like that pay? Minimum wage? $10/hr? $17/hr after 25 years?

Now look at a low paying web job. What do they pay? $35000/yr? $40000/yr? It's decent.

You don't get it

[bodland]

The point here is empower these kids with some skill that will provide a return to the community. Were not talking about creating websites for GE starting a dotcom here. learning web development opens pretty much the whole realm of IT to people. How mnay of you learned programming, troubleshooting and a host of other skills just creating a simple HTML wep page.

From reading /. for more than a year now I have rarely seen any social issues that touch on race. Well this topic has certainly uncovered the vast amount of racial ignorance on this board.

Some folks are missing the point

[sirgoran]

It states in the article that the kids have the option of being programmers or being helped into colleges and other programs. Any intercity program that helps lower the crime rate, murder rate, gang membership is a good thing. Helping kids help themselves into being an asset to society instead of a number in a prison is not something to take lightly.

Everyone at some point in their life had some sort of influence that helped them along. Be it advice from a teacher, some news story or article, parent, or friend it got you where you are today. I see nothing wrong with giving these kids a different path to follow. In the end it will be up to the kid. If he/she stays the course and changes their life or fails. I'm just glad that someone is trying to help.

Goran

Amen Brother

[Erris]

Programs like this that reward misbehavior piss me off. The money is better spent on honest people, you know like on high schools. Criminals have proved that they can not be trusted by violating other people. They should never be trusted again, and certianly never rewarded or given special opertunities that others do not have.

Honest livings can be had in contruction, washing dishes, taking out garbage and what not that requires little trust. This is what criminals should end up doing. If they want to do more, and pay for it, good for them and good luck. Trade organizations realize this. You can't get so much as a plumber's liscense if you have a criminal record, and that's the way it should remain.

The damage to the IT proffesion's reputation is secondary to the real harm well trained criminals can do. Yes, dishonest people can and do aquire skills. Every learning institution and every proffesional organization tries to exclude the dishonest, but nothing's perfect. Programs like this start out with the dishonest and train them up. There is a much greater probability of these people doing harm with their knowledge because you have selected the worst of all people to start out. Gangs trained by police departments in Los Angeles have a record of being nothing but stronger for the effort.

This is very backward thinking in a country that will keep "hackers" away from computers forever.

Re:Gang bangers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortuantely, something Has to be done with these people. The point of view the the city of milwaukee has taken on this may not be the most agreeable stane, but what does it say about the city? It say they care about the people in the city, and they figure that perhaps as these gang bangers get out of jail with some really useful skills, they might help the up and coming generation understand that there more to life than gang banging.

That has been the whole basis for most educational programs in prisons and jails. People can change and often do. Its best to remember that when it comes to people nothing is absolute...

Some clarifications

[c0rnfused]

For starters, I am an employee at Homeboyz Interactive, the company reported in the article.

Just wanted to clarify a few things. The students who go through the program are not simply taught how to launch Dreamweaver and click their way to a Web site. They go through about nine months of training ranging from HTML, to JavaScript, PHP, databases, data modeling, use cases, etc. We provide more skills to these students than most of my university peers seem to have! We are just starting to use Java to deal with some of our larger projects where PHP becomes a burden.

Think again if you're worried that this is just another basic class in WYSIWYG HTML editors... you are very wrong ;)

Re:Gang bangers?

[Anonymous Coward]

i could say something about what a bunch of racist pinheads you all are, about all the absurd generalizations you've made - but i won't. instead, i'll say this: if you don't want to help these people, don't. but don't insult them, and don't insult my intelligence.

well said

[zeroInjury]

I can't help but feel how absurd so many people are being because they're subscribing to stereotypes it's just plain dumb. First of all, I have to question the validity of any argument based on a stereotype (the smae one, mind you that's got computer geeks pegged as lame, pocket protector, acne'd, fat, Lara Croft loving wimps) and moreso, I question the validity of anyon'es intelligence for believing it enough to write messages. Do they know how ignorant they sound?