8mm Film Transfer?

Eric^2 asks: "My family has over 50 spools of 8mm (real non-magnetic no-audio developed) reel-to-reel film that I would like to get converted over to a digital format before it deteriorates any more. The majority of the solutions I've seen involve an expensive (frame-rate-adjustable) projector and a miniDV camcorder. Even the services I've looked into (while quite expensive) use this scheme. The film speeds are not 30 fps (i.e. NTSC), so there are some synchronization issues that must be overcome."

"The more expensive equipment does some of this, but it's not perfect. I would rather get the best quality out of the transfer, so I looked into a film scanner. Firstly, all the film scanners sold today are primarily designed for 35mm, with attachments to do other film sizes, but none of them seem to be designed to handle movie film - they're all single frame scanners. Scanning a frame at a time with a high-quality scanner seems like the best way to retain as much detail as possible, but I'm not going to sit in front of a computer for days manually advancing each frame of film. Has anyone had success transferring reel-to-reel 8mm film to a digital format and if so, how was it accomplished? Do I need to build my own capture device that moves the frames through a scanner, or should I just do the common projector-camcorder method?"

Newsgroup help.

[davidw1]

I've been reading the rec.video.desktop newsgroup for a while, and I have seen similar discussions in the group. Checking there to ask some experts would get you in the right direction.

Try a film or camera shop

[DeadMeat (TM)]

Our family got a film shop to transfer some old family films to VHS probably a decade ago, and I'd be shocked if there wasn't a similar service now to transfer to MiniDV. Needless to say, they will charge a fee for it (I was young at the time so I don't know how much, but I'm guessing it wasn't cheap) but they've got professional equipment that should do a much better job of transfering than consumer equipment.

If they don't offer a direct MiniDV transfer, you can get a VHS transfer and then use a MiniDV camcorder with analog dubbing capabilities to go from VHS to MiniDV. I've tried this personally with our tapes, and you shouldn't lose anything along the lines of quality because the original film will be the limiting factor.

Re:Try a film or camera shop

[Rural]

If they don't offer a direct MiniDV transfer, you can get a VHS transfer and then use a MiniDV camcorder with analog dubbing capabilities to go from VHS to MiniDV. I've tried this personally with our tapes, and you shouldn't lose anything along the lines of quality because the original film will be the limiting factor.

Do not go through the VHS route. My friend did this and the resulting quality was awful. Film has a much higher resolution than VHS.

just do the common projector-camcorder method

[BroadbandBradley]

anything that does hi-res scans is going to take awhile. the DV camcorder gets reasonably good images, make sure the projector is nice and polished clean, be sure to block any outside light sources, and go for it. If you don't already own a DV Camcorder, I'd recommend buying one, I use mine to save those family moments, and with the right lighting, it's really broadcast quality video.. it looks better than VHS dare I say on the same footing as DVD? However, then having your captured video on digital video cassettes, they will degrade over time, to be optimum, then transfer your video to DVD. I think blank DVD discs are like 25$ each though, being digital is good, but the tape medium is still magnetic and subject to degrade. DVD is optical and won't have that problem. Mac makes a nice ImacDV with a DVD burner for somewhere around 1300$(I think), not only does this provide a way to get the DVcamcorder connected using firewire to transfer the video, but also nice tools to create your own video (AKA edit out the dull parts) and burn those to disc.

Re:just do the common projector-camcorder method

[Anonymous Coward]

Mac makes a nice ImacDV with a DVD burner for somewhere around 1300$(I think)

FYI, the iMac can edit DV video, but it can't burn DVDs without an external DVDR drive. And I'm not sure if Apple's DVD burning software works well with third party drives (I'm sure third party software does though).

The $2500 G4 has an internal DVDR drive, but that's a bit expensive if all you're doing is video backups.

If you can live without Apple's software integration stuff, I think a PC DVDR drive would be the way to go.

How good do you want it?

[nedron]

You have several options for doing this. Ranked in order of ascending quality are:

1. Front project the footage on a screen and record it with a video camera.
2. Purchase a rear projection film transfer unit (basically a front surface mirror with a condenser lens and frosted screen) and record it wih a video camera.
3. Have the film transferred by a reputable local processing company using a CCD linked projector.
4. Have the film tranferred at a professional facility using a flying spot scanner (eg. Rank Cintel).

Options 1 & 2 are avenues of last resort, as they will yield very bad results. In addition to the lack of resolution of most consumer projectors, the flicker will be very noticeable on video since you can't sync most consumer level video equipment to the shutter of consumer projectors.

Option 3 is slightly better because the CCD linked system is synchronized with the shutter and removes the annoying flicker. Transfers are acceptable, though generally soft and the color balance can vary. Note that man camera shops will actually transfer your film using method 2. Don't pay for a service like this.

Option 4 is the best method and obviously the most expensive. Results can be astounding, as most professional transfers include cleaning, splice fixing, color correction, etc. Additionally, they can transfer directly to digital tape (many offer multiple tape formats). I would recommend Pro8mm [pro8mm.com]. They do a great job and the results are spectacular. In fact, their facility is often used to transfer 8mm and Super8mm footage for use on television and in theatrical films. Pro8mm also uses a daVinci unit to handle color correction.

This is one of those things where you definitely get what you pay for.

24 - 30

[Rui del-Negro]

Projecting at 24 fps and recording at 30 will definitely not produce good results.

Converting film to PAL is easier (simply play the film at 25 fps instead of 24 - most projectors can do this - and record it with a video camera). It can cause a slight distortion to the sound (when there's sound), but you can fix that by changing the sound speed with a program that doesn't affect pitch.

If you can project at 29.97 fps, you can use the method described above (then use a program such as After Effects to render the video at a speed of 80% with interpolation).

If not, have it converted (to DV or Beta Digital or whatever) at a professional facility like nedron suggested. If it's a simple conversion it probably won't be too expensive (it's mostly automatic). But if the film is important to you and you don't mind paying a bit extra, ask them to do colour calibration, cleaning, etc.

This is definitely not my area of expertise, but..

[unitron]

Does making these movies involve exposing a negative and printing off the actual movie from that? If so, do you still have the negatives and might they not be in better shape?

Rank Cintel Transfer

[cwhittenburg]

I suffered through this same process, trying to figure out the best way to get a good digital transfer. After much research, I went with a company in California, used to the be called The Transfer Station and is now Film and Video Transfers, Inc. [thetransferstation.com].

You can get a Super 8 transfer on a Rank Cintel machine done there (with color correction) for $150 per hour. (half hour increments). This is really a professional transfer. Places like pro8 charge $250 per hour. F&V will also clean your films and splice them together so that you don't have to deal with all those 50 ft reels anymore.

They did 24 reels for me, a mix of super 8 and regular 8 for $260. This included the two Mini DV tapes, and FedEx shipping back to me. I compared the results with an older VHS transfer I had done, and it was like day and night. Great stuff.

I did a digital duplication of the Mini DV tapes, and I'm putting the original film and a minidv copy in the safe deposit box, while I work on editing the Mini DV footage on the PC and then have it transfered to DVD. Maybe at lifeclips.com?

Do a search on Deja News for The Transfer Station... They've gotten lots of good mentions. I don't work for them, just happy with their work.

See your library.

[bluGill]

My grandpa did the 8mm to VHS in the library. They have the equipment, all they ask is you use big reals, and work quickly. Of course as time went on less and less people used this, and so they relaxed the need for speed a little.

Note that he wasn't able to use his local library, but the down town (minneapolis I belive) library let him use the equipment for no charge. You might have to look around too, but you can probably find what you need at a library.

PS, keep the old film as long as you can. It has a charm of its own, and better resolution.