WinVNC vs. KVM Extender? 41
systmc asks: "I'm trying to decide between using WinVNC or a KVM extender at a customer's site. I'd like to use WinVNC but I'm concerned about it's CPU usage on a WinNT system (with an inactive client connected CPU usage was at around 8%, even with Raw encoding. PCAnywhere was about 0.5%). Does anyone have experience tweaking VNC? If hardware winds up being necessary, what KVM Extender would you recommend?"
TightVNC (Score:4, Informative)
Re:TightVNC (Score:2)
<unix plug> The X-VNC server fixes this problem by design since it knows exactly which pixels are changed by every graphics operation. </unix plug>
A question: Do you need security? Most VNC servers and clients provide no security. They just broadcast everything you type -- including passwords -- on the network with no encryption. I personally would not use ordinary VNC programs *at all*. If you want to, hey, it's your data.
Re:TightVNC (Score:1)
Most VNC servers and clients provide no security. They just broadcast everything you type -- including passwords -- on the network with no encryption.
If you're accessing over a VPN then you'll have encryption through that - otherwise you should tunnel over SSH.
Re:TightVNC (Score:1)
ssh -L 5800:<server-ip>:5800 -L 5900:<server-ip>:5900 -N <server-ip>
And then you can direct your VNC client to localhost:0 instead of <server-ip>:0.
Oh, the windows VNC client does not allow localhost connections by default. Never fear: add the following key to the registry:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\ORL\WinVNC3]
"AllowLoopback"=dword:00000001
Ta-da!
Re:TightVNC (Score:1)
Re:TightVNC (Score:2)
Re:TightVNC (Score:1)
Speed is great tho.
Normal VNC can eat even 40% of cpu cycles when client active. These numbers are from quad xeon p3-700 with 2M cache so yeas, it's poorly optimized on windows.
Re:TightVNC (Score:2)
There's also a patch to WinVNC to ignore the Windows desktop pattern, and you're going to want that.
TridiaVNC is a good source for a windows VNC client. They provide commercial support and could compile a version of WinVNC to your requirements.
If you've got a manager with money to burn, sure KVMs are nice, but you usually can't use VPN or PPP to connect to them without buying an add-on. Also, KVMs don't scale up without a suit to sign off on the purchase. If you get in new servers, you have to buy more KVM cables and after awhile another KVM switch to tier with your old one. With VNC, you just install it on the new box.
We use both. KVMs keep the "NT diarrea" to a minimum, letting us drive 16 servers with just a pair of keyboards and screens. Our server room is just too small for a monitor for every server. Consolidating server space is really what KVMs are best at.
However, PPP/VPN access is something else. Over dialup, VNC sucks, period. Over the standard 26400 connection most people get, VNC isn't really fast enough to do real work and remain calm. Over VPN via DSL or cable, VNC is perfectly fine. PCAnywhere is much better for dial-up telecommuting to Windows hosts. Turn on the maximum compression, no/minimal encryption, and downsample the color palette to 4 colors. The last bit is what does it -- a four color display updates over dialup very quickly, though it takes a little extra CPU time. Even over 19200 PCAnywhere is still usable even with the worst behaved GUI apps, like MS Access or vendorware.
What's the application? (Score:4, Informative)
You haven't explained why you want to use a remote machine.
If it's to run applications, then the WinVNC/PCAnywhere/etc route is a good one. It's more flexible, because you don't need a cable. You can share the machine between more than one person, and you don't need extra hardware.
Personally, for remote administration, I'd always use the KVM extender solution. If the machine that you're administrating isn't behaving, then the remote control software probably isn't working properly either. Remote software doesn't let you watch bootup screens, or reconfigure the Bios.
So, before you make a decision, I think you need to look carefully at the purpose of the solution.
Rdesktop (Score:2, Informative)
However, as another poster said, I think the KVM is the way to go, for the same reasons.
Timbuktu (Score:3, Informative)
8%? (Score:3, Informative)
Make sure you don't have "poll entire screen" checked. It's a pig.
My personal setup is TightVNC with everything BUT "poll entire screen" checked. It's pretty zippy, even over dialup, so long as you aren't redrawing the entire screen.
Better Solution (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Better Solution (Score:2)
Another Recommendation (Score:2, Informative)
But I agree : vnc is a lot more efficient on *NIX that on NT...
And as for security, someone mentionned, there is not so much encryption with vnc. At least, the vnc password is not sent in cleartext on the wire, but after that every keystrokes goes as it is into an udp packet.
Compaq remote Insight Lights-Out Edition. (Score:4, Interesting)
KVM choices (Score:3)
Anything that isn't made by Belkin. Many people swaer by them, but for me, they've caused no end of trouble. Half the time, they don't switch when you request them to, other times, they'll switch of their own accord. And they suck at handling non-PC hardware. I can't use them with my SPARC, and my Alpha works intermittently at best through them.
Re:KVM choices (Score:2, Informative)
We also connect all of our AutoViews with a Cybex LongView. Basicly your KVM extender. You can use the LongView with almost any KVM system you already have install. We have them connected to Belkin KVMs. The extenders sends their signal over a standard ethernet cable.
WARNING - Don't ever patch the ethernet cable through a switch. You will kill the switch. But you can send the signal through a normal patch panel, if you wanted the LongView receive to be at your desk. I am not sure of the distance for the extender, but all in all they work really good.
Oh, I just looked. Cybex is now called Avocent.
Another option for some... (Score:3, Informative)
Pretty slick. They are $499. I put them in all new servers now.
Re:Another option for some... (Score:2)
Yeah, but this is the sort of thing that should be built into the machine [sun.com], not an extra option that you have to pay for. Furthermore, it's useless in a 1U rackmount server, which is arguably where you need it most.
Re:Another option for some... (Score:2)
I stand by my original comment. The Lights Out board is overpriced, and useless in a 1U server. Yes, it can work in some (e.g., the DL360 that you mentioned), but only if you're prepared to sacrifice your single available PCI slot. Our servers tend to already have that used for external SCSI controllers, and hence the Lights Out board simply isn't an option. Our Sun hardware, by way of contrast, lets us have remote lights out management, an external SCSI connector, and still leaves a PCI slot free. Sun may be way behind the price/perfomance curve, but when it comes to making a managable server, they're still head and shoulders above the Intel crowd, and that makes up for an awful lot...
Re:Another option for some... (Score:2)
Re:Another option for some... (Score:1)
Fair point. My only experience has been with DL320s, which only have one.
Re:Another option for some... (Score:2)
Yeah, it sucks using the one slot in a 1U box, but the 1U Compaq boxes have internal SCSI and dual NICs. Not a problem for 99% of customers out there.
Re:Another option for some... (Score:1)
Use NetMeeting. It's free and included! (Score:3, Informative)
Believe me! I've tried them all! (winvnc, tightvnc...)
BTW: Don't forget to lower your colors (256color desktop. it's faster).
Netmeeting? Hmmm (Score:2)
But the C/S design is also a problem. Microsoft no longer provides public ILS servers, and to access the Directory server you have to sign up for Hotmail. (Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!) MS does not provide listings of public servers. Instead they refer you to netmeet.net -- which seems to be down.
I did find one university ILS server. But I suspect its owners are unaware that it's accessible to the world at large. No thank you, my relationship with the fibbies is already sufficiently complex.
I'm looking at commercial service providers. Don't seem to be a lot of them.
And yes, I'm aware of Expertcity. Many advantages, including Mac and Solaris support. (Didn't they use to support Linux?) But they've found low-end customers unprofitable, so you have to be prepared to spend at least $400/month to get their attention.
I seem to recall that there's an ILS-compatible client for Irix. Anyone know of other non-MS clients?
vnc (Score:2)
A couple of options.... (Score:1)
As for PC Anywhere, we had some service providers who used it, and it worked well, and some times better than Proxy. VNC was something I used as a band-aid for a few rare things like I hinted at above, but works well on a no cash budget.
Also, Win2k server has a single user license included for remote administration purposes, and both NT and 2k support workstation administration though the tool kits they have. For 2k, you only need the server cd in a 2k workstation to install the package. It is a
Re:A couple of options.... (Score:1)
KVM Recommendations (Score:2)
Tom's Hardware [tomshardware.com] recently did a review [tomshardware.com] of 5 KVM switches. They gave the top nob to, not suprisingly, the Belkin F1DS102T, which has some nifty features such as audio and usb switching.
RemotelyAnywhere (Score:1)
I don't know why nobody ever mentions RemotelyAnywhere [remotelyanywhere.com] when this question comes up.
It works entirely from a browser, and is quite nice.
It includes a mobo info page (uses MBM), network graphs, file management, upload/download, SSL, works through firewalls (inc. VNC-like usage), telnet/SSH/FTP server (dunno how (in)secure they are; you can disable them).
I like it.
Is client site using NT 4.0 or Win2000? (Score:2)
If it's NT 4.0, see about an upgrade to Win2000.
Only thing this won't give you is access to the attached terminal process, which if you're running something like SQL or Lotus Domino, and you want to see the process console -- well, that's a walk to the server room.
Also remember you can admin Win2000 boxes from any Win2000 box. Right-click on My Computer, go to Manage, then Action...Connect to Another Computer. Gives you access to services, logs, storage, user/group accounts....
If the server hangs totally? (Score:2)
We love the WinVNC way... (Score:1)
Use the web-browser interface, not the client (Score:1, Informative)
It's not any less CPU-intensive on the host, unfortunately.