Appropriate Hardware for Cisco Training?

Nilatir asks: "I'm going to be starting on my CCNA and continuing on to CCNP and possibly CCIE. I know that there are virtual trainers and virtual labs available but I'm considering setting up a real hands-on lab to work with and I need advise from fellow /.'ers on what Cisco hardware to start out with."

Cisco Lab

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Well, you can get TONS of this stuff really cheap on eBay, ever since the Dot Com Kaboom...

I would start with a couple of routers, and at least two switches. Steer clear of the low-end 1700 series, unless you want to add this as a third router at some point. Better to get a 2600 series with 2 Eth 10/100's in it (the second eth is less that 150.00 on eBay) You can throw some of the cheaper 2500 series in here too. The go for about 4-5 hundred. These usually are featured with 1 10/100 and sometimes an AUI. You can set up HSSI between these - make sure you get the cables!

Switches? The 2900 series is great - but pricy. All the trunk/bridge/VLan madness you want can be practiced on the 2924XL. I would get one of these, and make up on an old 10bt switch for the others - 1724, etc...

Freesco

[Smoking]

I know it's not quite CISCO hardware, but there's this little floppy-based Linux distro called Freesco [freesco.org]

I tried it while working for my CCNA and I was quite impressed: It emulates the CISCO command set almost completely, including access lists.

Ok it's not a 2600 but you might want to have a look at it.

Quentin
btw: 2nd post!

CCIE Equipment List

[gnomead]

Here is a list of the equipment on the CCIE lab exam.

• 2500 Series
  
• 2600 Series
  
• 3600 Series
  
• 4000 and 4500 Series
  
• 3900 Series TR Switch
  
• Cat 5000 Switch
  

I think the best all around lab choice would be to get 3-4 of the routers listed above concentrating on the modular routers as opposed to the fixed port routers as it is much cheaper to buy new interfaces than new routers.
I would also recommend that you get at least two ATM interfaces and at least 2 Token Ring interfaces.
Instead of the 5000 Cat switch, you should probably try to find a 2926 as it runs the same IOS and should be avaliable for a much cheaper price.
Don't forget cables too! Cisco uses a 60 pin connector on most routers, but modules available for the 3600's use a much smaller (also proprietary) connector and believe me these cables are not cheap!
Good luck!

Just got my CCNP...

[NetJunkie]

For the CCNA all you really need are a couple of 2500s and some serial cables. Just enough to connect a couple of routers and ping across. To be safe I'd get 3.

For the CCNP it takes a little more. You'll need several routers, some switches, and to do it right, and ISDN simulator. A big chunk of the CCNP is remote access and you can't practice much without the ISDN piece. You also need to make sure you buy the right switches, since the command syntax varies some between the different lines.

Instead of spending a fortune you may consider just renting lab time. Several places do it online and you just telnet right in and do your thing. Some people don't like that because you don't actually touch the gear, but I went to an excellent CCNP boot camp and we almost never touched the equipment. Just telnetted/consoled in and did our thing. The hardware building of a router takes a few mins...the configuration is what takes time.

what you really need if you're serious...

[Myrcurial]

You're going to need a minimum of three routers and two switches to do anything approching interesting, you're also going to need 4+ endpoint computers.

Start with:

• 2501
• 2620 + WIC-1T or WIC-2T
• 1005
• 2924XLEN
• 5002
• 2xCAB-TC-5 see Here [aiyamicro.com]
• misc ethernet cables

Quick check of ebay says you can get the above for around $5000-6000 USD. Other people will tell you to rent time, but again, if you're serious, you will want your own lab to (a) keep your skills up in a potenially stagnant work environment or (b)keep going up the ladder in Cisco certifications.

General comments:

• You will need the endpoint computers - it's not enough to route between routers, sometimes you need to route between networks. They are also useful for seeing the vagarities of odd protocols - you were going to learn IPX and Appletalk right - they're on the test.
• And add routers as you can find them. Anything will be useful, and keep an eye out for AGS or AGS+ machines - they run older IOS only, but they can really help out as they are actually 7500 class routers that are way past their due date and getting cheaper by the day.
• You will need another fast ethernet port sooner as opposed to later, so look for another 262x or 36x0+NM-1FE as well.
• You're going to have to add token ring to the mix if you're planning on passing, so plan for it by looking for 2502s or getting a 2513 instead of the 2501 above.
• 25xx series routers are going to need an ethernet AUI adapter - about $30 new.
• Don't cheap out and skip anything - you do need the 500x switch to get an idea of what CatOS is like, it's almost-IOS but not quite.
• ISDN is on almost all tests, but not too cheap to simulate in a lab - there is a product from Adtran called the Atlas 550 or 800 [adtran.com] that will emulate an ISDN or PRI switch so you can do DDR backup links. If you can find one, sub in a 2503+NT1 for the 2501 above.
• \
• Another interesting and usually cheap system is the AS5100 [cisco.com] - it's three 2511's in a 3com modem chassis - great way to have a couple of routers and a console server (use one 2511 plus an octal (or two) RJ45serial cable(s) Here [kg2.com]) to control the big mess of routers you've got through reverse telnet to those serial interfaces.
• Stay clear of anything that doesn't run standard IOS (19xx switches, 700 series routers) since they're pretty close to useless these days and interesting only as a side project
• Read everything you can get your hands on, you're going to spend a fortune on dead trees, so read as much as you can out of the Cisco Documentation Library [cisco.com] before you buy a Cisco Press book.
• Also keep in mind that you can tell the level of the book by whether or not there is an ISO 7-layer triangle in the first chapter (if you don't get this joke now, you will soon.)
• This [darkdomain.on.ca] is a lab that a friend of mine is setting up - gives you an idea of what you can accomplish - he's waiting patiently on a cheap 500x switch and for some reason he hasn't listed his 1005 on here.

Email me if you've got detailed questions and you're planning on getting a real CCxx rather than a 'I did the test so pay me lots of money' CCxx and I'll help when I can. Apologies for sounding like an old fart, but I'm tired of people who don't really understand their work, but are really good at passing tests.

Re:what you really need if you're serious...

[sphealey]

You will need the endpoint computers - it's not enough to route between routers, sometimes you need to route between networks. They are also useful for seeing the vagarities of odd protocols - you were going to learn IPX and Appletalk right - they're on the test.

Similarly, don't forget that whatever Microsoft may say, Novell still exists. I believe you can get a 2-license demo version of Netware for free from Novell; have at least one Netware/NDS server on your test net.

sPh

Hardware is pretty optional, I'd say

[Edouard]

I'm a software engineer who recently (one year ago) moved to networks and security. I had basic knowledge of networks and routing, like anyone who does programming for a living and is interested in what goes on beyond their machine's boundaries...

My company wanted me to get my CCNA and CCNP, so I read the Cisco books and did a bit of online training (the company also gave us a subscription to www.xtremelearning.com, but we gotta pay the books with our own money).

I got my CCNA and I'm about to finish the CCNP and have not touched a single router or switch, and honestly, there's no real need to, as long as you read the books and learn the commands by heart.

All these Cisco exams are more a memory exercise than anything else, in my opinion: you give the "official Cisco(tm) answer" to each of the multiple choice questions (usually a sentence from the Cisco(tm) book, almost word for word) and eliminate the answers that don't make sense, and you're sorted...

My 2p.

Ed

PS: I heard that the CCIE is a bit more complicated...

Re:Hardware is pretty optional, I'd say

[Myrcurial]

This is exactly my ranting point. Do you want a piece of paper or do you want to know routing and networking well enough to do something other than junior grade routing/switching monkey? If you're planning on CCDP or CCIE, you need to know more than how to memorize a Cisco command line.

Re:Hardware is pretty optional, I'd say

[Edouard]

I completely agree: cramming for the exam does not bring any useable knowledge.

In my case it was a case of welcome-to-the-firm-btw-get-this-exam-before-this- date-or-you're-out kind
of thing so the bit of paper was all I was after.

On the other hand, once you're working with Ciscos,the learning curve is pretty steep and you can always refer to your training books...

Re:Hardware is pretty optional, I'd say

[Myrcurial]

Ok, that places your statements in a different light. I was only really concerned because the poster was interested in going up the chain of certs and anyone who thinks they can get a CCIE without touching hardware had better run back to their cave and try to ignore the people who actually route the packets...

Re:Hardware is pretty optional, I'd say

[Ratbert42]

I got my CCNA and I'm about to finish the CCNP and have not touched a single router or switch...

Man, send me your resume. You sound exactly like all the IS guys my company has hired. You'll probably have to start out helping to rebuild all the servers infected with Nimda, but eventually you'll get time to screw up the firewall config.

Re:Hardware is pretty optional, I'd say

[Pastis]

I personaly know Edouard.
Regarding his capabilities, I don't understand how you can judge on what he said. Reread what he said.
His company wanted him certified.
He was smart enought to find out he didn't need to invest in hardware to pass the certification.
He was smart enought to understand that the certifications means nothing (you don't need to train) if you can pass them without touching the hardware.

He is a very capable person and just proved he was smart.

Ratbert don't be a troll. I don't understand how you got ranted 2, while Edouard actually had an informative post.

No books needed

[alen]

CCNA you only need to read the books. Check the web for practice tests. CCNA is only very basic stuff. I did mine in a month without touching a router. Sybex sells a study guide with a virtual router program that I can't recall the name of. After CCNA go get a job. No point in getting an advanced cert like CCNP without experience.

software: virutal labs

[metalgeek]

sybex makes a virtual lab product that I belive simulates several routeras and a coupla switches.
h [amazon.com]
heres it on amazon
it's actually just a toned down version of some other virtual router software made by router sim [routersim.com]
there a hell of a lot cheaper than buying actual hardware.

CCNA

[mstich]

I took the ccna exam, I just picked up a couple Cisco books from Chapters. Read those. And did some of those router simulation programs. I felt that that would be enough preparation for the CCNA, it being a low-end cisco exam.

I just recently purchased a Cisco 2514 off eBay for a cool $600, and the Catalyst 2912 for $700. I am hoping to take the CCNP within the next 4 months.