What Industry Certifications are Worth It? 33
aries78 asks: "I've recently obtained my CCNP certification, and am contemplating on going for the oh-so-scary CCIE certification. In the meantime, I have been considering other potential certifications to supplement my resume while I'm working toward my bachelor's degree. I am curious, though, as to what kind of professional certifications Slashdotters have, and how, if at all, they have been of help."
None Works fine in the Valley (Score:1)
CCNA, MCSE, and Novell CNE here (Score:3, Informative)
While I need other experience, the CNE has made people notice me in my interviewing lately. Kind of proves you've been in the field awhile.
I plan to go CCNP but CCIE is a waste to me unless you have a job already lined up that requires it.
MCSE, well nice to have, nothing I mention typically.
I guess it all depends on your goals. If you want to be a CCIE and travel a lot, etc, sure. NOT ME!
well... (Score:1)
Re:well... (Score:2)
I often get people telling me that they don't need my BS.
Sun Certification = Crap (Score:2, Informative)
Certs (Score:4, Informative)
But seriously.
I am A+, CNE 3/4, HPUX 9x/10x, AT&T Sys-V and I have various odd little programming and hardware certs (e.g. ISPF/PDF, HP-CZ etc.)
The only cert which has really meant anything is the CNE. In today's job market though, I'm noticing that a lot more head-hunters are scanning for certs just as a way of winnowing the mass of resume's which flood in for every position. (There's several thousand IT pro's out of work here in the Seattle area).
As such, I've done a bit of research myself, including some salary analysis and talking to various headhunters and have come up with the following list (which I hope to have acquired by June of 2002):
MCSA, MCSE, MCDBA, Network+, Linux+, LPI,
i-Net+, CNE 5/6, CCNA and CCDA
These are in no particular order, and please note that my experience is abnormally broad. I would normally recommend a much narrower selection based on a given individual's interests.
I just happen to have the background to pick these up with a minimum of studying so, hey, why not?
Hope this helps. Best of luck!
College (Score:2)
With smaller companies, it depends on the person (usually singular) who screens you: either all certs and degrees will be worthless, or that's all they'll base their opinion on, depending upon who they are.
The .sig says it all (Score:4, Funny)
OTOH, if you don't already have any job experience, your time is best spent getting an entry level end-user support job, and working your way up from there. Without a degree it's pretty much the only way in. Based on what I have seen in most support call centers, the mindless nature of such jobs is best alleviated by eating lots of bananas, scratching yourself, and swinging on the office lighting fixtures. Get your degree soon.
Depends on the job you're after (Score:2, Interesting)
In your current position (assuming you dont work fulltime yet), I suppose it is worth noting on your CV, and it may help you to avoid being caught with your thumbs completely green the first day on the job. But, most jobs are really about learning the environment, and the people, and the existing methods. As an interviewer, I am more impressed by someone who has made some free software that is usable, than I am with a certificate. Thats the honest truth, especially for a junior position, but even for more experienced slots, provided the applicant can demonstrate a good working knowledge of what the position requires, in addition.
Anyways, there have been lots and lots [slashdot.org] of extremely useful insight into this matter stored, for your viewing and learning pleasure, in the past.
Good luck. Just the fact that you asked here says something about your prospects...
does Masters or PHD help? (Score:2, Interesting)
I understand it can make a difference what area you are going into, but for the most part (read as most programming jobs) do ppl think there degree gets them much more than perhaps higher pay?
Re:does Masters or PHD help? (Score:5, Informative)
Post graduate degrees are work experience. I don't know how many times people have asked why I didn't decide to go out to the "real world" and get experience. The truth is, graduate school isn't so much schooling as it is work. Hard work. Sure, you will probably get paid for the work but it's barely enough to live on. Don't get me wrong--it's worth every bit of the pain.
Of course getting a Master's degree or PhD will get you higher pay. But it also sets the "ceiling", if you will, for how far up in a major company you can go. How many Fortune 500 companies are run by persons with their Bachelor's degree? Not many, unless they were the founder. And successors almost always have at least an MBA; but a PhD certainly helps. If you want to be a monkey all your life just following other's leadership and writing what they tell you, then your bachelor's is fine. But if you want to get into management, you really should consider an MBA. If you want to ever be a "director", VP, or whatever, you really want an MBA AND a post graduate degree in a technical field. The extra money earned is because you're worth every penny at that point.
Re:does Masters or PHD help? (Score:2, Informative)
In my experience, there are two factors that influence how an organization views this:
- Do the institutions of higher learning in your area have competitive graduate or professional schools?
- Does the hiring manager have a graduate or professional degree?
In my case, the second-rate institution in my area produces nearly all of the engineering graduates AND the CEO of my company only has a bachelor's degree. Not surprisingly, at my company, graduate degrees are not valued significantly above a B.S. and discussion of graduate-level research draws guffaws (a reflection of the effort needed to put together a "thesis" at the local school)At the other end of the spectrum, I understand there are places where you are a nobody if you don't have your Ph.D. (I've heard this about NIST, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same at other government labs or the big corporate research labs (Bell, T.J. Watson).)
And successors almost always have at least an MBA; but a PhD certainly helps.
As I understand it, companies generally like to draw their top leadership from customer-focussed functions like sales and marketing. You're at a disadvantage if you're in detail-focussed functions like development or operations, though there are notable exceptions to this (Jack Welch, Gil Amelio)
How many Fortune 500 companies are run by persons with their Bachelor's degree?
Just sampling the top ten reveals:
- H. Lee Scott (Walmart)
- Sanford Weill (Citigroup)
- C. Michael Armstrong (AT&T)
That's 30%...Re:does Masters or PHD help? (Score:1, Interesting)
CISSP for Information Security Professionals (Score:2, Informative)
The "Certified Information Systems Security Professional" ® (CISSP) designation is a recently developed international designation for people involved in information security work. It is handled by the non-profit organization called " (ISC)2", the "International Information Systems Security Certification Consortium, Inc." They administer, test, and have a trademark on CISSP®. The first CISSP designations were conferred in 1994, and each year the numbers have increased.
With certification of computer professionals becoming more important, and the incursion of the Engineering field into computer-related work areas, it's a good idea to consider getting a formal designation. The ISSA and CIPS organizations have also been very supportive in promoting professional certification among their members. I've discovered that certification makes a difference in getting consulting contracts, and provides a higher level of trust, ethics, and expected professionalism in client relations. Recently, an incresing number of government RFP's for INFOSEC-related services have requested that consultants preferably have CISSP accreditation.
Applicants must subscribe to a formal code of ethics, and must have at least three years of direct work experience in one or more of the ten information security domains of the information systems security Common Body of Knowledge, in order to sit for the examination.
The ten domain areas are:
Access Control;
Communications Security;
Risk Management & Business Continuity Planning;
Policy, Standards, and Organization;
Computer Architecture & Systems Security;
Law, Investigation, & Ethics;
Application Program Security;
Cryptography;
Computer Operations Security; and
Physical Security.
The exam questions are multiple choice, and are oriented towards knowledge gathered by experience. Someone who just read some text books would have a very hard time passing the exam. Exam preparation training seminars, and a study guide with sample questions are available from (ISC)2.
For more details, see (ISC)2's new WWW site at: http://www.isc2.org/
Re:CISSP for Information Security Professionals (Score:1)
Thinking about certifications... (Score:5, Informative)
I have one certification (Java Certified Programmer), and a Master's Degree in Computer Science. I have not needed any other certifications.
Retsen (Score:1, Funny)
I did get beat out by a certified person once... (Score:2)
Since he was certified, they figured he was trainable enough to be worth their while. I guess they could have sent him to $20k worth of training and still come out ahead.
That is, however, the ONLY time it happened.
- Freed
Sun Certified Java Programmer (Score:1)
How helpful have you, O, revered slashdotter, found the SCJP [sun.com] or its many brethren [sun.com]?
Re:Sun Certified Java Programmer (Score:1)
To me, the fact that I am certified in both MS and Sun technologies (plus that I use Linux at home) gives me credibility - it shows I'm trying to have a broad perspective on things. Most of my clients are MS shops, but the last thing I want is to be a MS lackey mindlessly repeating the party line. I like some of MS's stuff, but if I use it I want it to be because it's good. Having diverse certs helps my clients trust me - and your boss's trust is your biggest asset.
What Industry Certifications are Worth It? (Score:3, Funny)
Make them up (Score:2, Funny)
I can see your resume now:
"CCF, NJP, NEW, CCCDP, EEFG+, NET+, FU, CKY, OU"
Canadian Federal Gov Standards (Score:1)
I work in IT At A local college, less then 6 months out of school. my certs are
A+, Apple Product Profesional, AppleCare Service, IBM Desktop Laptop and Server and my College Diploma.
i plan to write the Network + before the year is up, and the CCNA after i get more time on CISCO gear.
Who pays? (Score:1, Insightful)
Just wondering...
Re:Who pays? (Score:1)
What do you mean "who pays the courses"?
IMHO the courses are for those, who need to have those exams in a very short time. And who don't need to care about money.
Every one else should get real life experience and then pass most tests without any problems. I think that's what it should be: Prove your knowledge by having that exam, not learn to pass the exam.
What I did in the case of CCNA: get myself a small Cisco router with a real IOS (800 series) and use it at home. Configure like crazy and test out all features and software you can get for Cisco things. (This was not cheap, but I needed an ISDN router anyway. There were other cheaper models (it's not difficult to beat a Cisco in price), but I wanted to have something useful for later.)
This way you get a lot of knowledge on things like IP routing, SNMP, firewall, access lists filtering, upgrading the IOS, resetting the superuser password etc. Just what you need to pass CCNA.
For the Solaris exam I chose a similar approach: get Solaris (for Intel, it's basically free), use it as the main server at home, install all kind of software like Samba, NFS, JumpStart, NIS, NIS+ etc. and then pass the Sun exam without much more learning.
I do know people who learn solely from books or (even worse) from braindumps and similar sources. While they pass the test sometimes, it takes less than some days in real life situations to find out they have no real knowledge.
To come back to the topic: in no way courses are needed. The exams themself are quite cheap (in a way): US$100-150 for most.
Since you don't intend to have one exam in a week, for most people that should be manageable.
Three keys to "certifiable sucess"... (Score:1, Interesting)
I believe these all to be critical factors in the following ways:
Career Path - In the broad expanse that is today?s field of information technology, there are a vast number of specialties, niches and areas of work that one can engage in. If you find that you are particularly fond of a specific area, then it only stands to reason to pursue certifications that will not only bolster your existing knowledge of relevant material, but that are also widely recognized as credible by the industry. Of course, there are also generic certification such as network+, A+, I-net+, etc?however, I find these to be very common and less impressive to prospective employers?
Geographical Location - This is a biggie!!! The area in which you live will largely dictate the type and number of I/T jobs that are available to you. As such, it is important note trends and to tailor your certifications to meet the needs of the companies in your area. This will lead to a greater number of offers and more lucrative compensation.
Current Level of Education - This is arguably one of the most determinant factors in whether or not certification is appropriate for your situation at all. While I hate to speak in generalities, I believe that will be best to illustrate this point. Generally, an individual with a high-level, relevant college education is in need of additional certifications far less that one who may have only an associate?s degree or simply a high school diploma. The reasoning is actually quite simple in that the certification lend credibility to the knowledge and ability of the otherwise scholastically unproven individual, where the a person with a masters in computer science is far less likely to be questioned on their intellectual aptitude. However, as I stated, this is a generality?
Ultimately, I believe that attaining industry recognized certification can be highly beneficial in the short term with the ultimate challenge being to maintain and upgrade the certifications appropriately.
As for myself, I was a shameful college dropout with but two years of college to my credit. However, I almost view this as having been a head start on the computer revolution and have done quite well for myself with the aid of some certifications. I currently hold a MCSE+I (NT4.0), MCSE (Win2K), CCNA, MCDBA, CCA (Citrix), and a MCSD. Thanks to these certs, my years of experience, and a good line of BS I am now working at a fortune 500 company pulling in six figures!!!
certs vs. degrees (Score:2)
If you think the CCIE is scary, you aren't ready to take it. Give yourself a few more years of work experience as a senior cisco engineer before you attempt it, and it will be easy. The CCIE is designed to be given only to people with lots of hands-on work experience.
Cisco has two types of certification programs.
The CCNA/CCNP tracks are part of "the revenue process", designed to sell books, training classes, and expensive exams. These lesser certs are just to prove "knowledge". You can pass a "knowledge" exam by taking a course, reading the books, without ever touching a router. Note that obtaining a CCNP only requires passing a simple written test and no other demonstration of experience.
The CCIE program is run by the customer advocacy group, and is loathed internally in Cisco by the CCNA/NP groups. The CCIE is a "skills and experience" exam, which cannot be sold as a neatly packaged course. The written part covers knowledge that can mostly be obtained only in an engineering program, and concentrates on a solid low level understanding of communication science. The written exam is used to weed out the wannabes from taking valuable seats in the true exam. The true CCIE exam requires you to demonstrate skill at cabling and troubleshooting, and presents problems that only years of experience will allow a quick enough response to the incredibly short time allowed.
Cisco uses the certification programs to ensure their channel partners have enough knowledgable people to keep the customers happy, and to reduce support expenses. Just last month Cisco audited all their partners in Europe, which had every headhunting agency scouring for CCIE's. I got about a dozen calls during one week with pathetic job offers. CCIE's who are abused or poorly managed tend to wander off into better jobs, there are very few Gold Partners who know how to keep their CCIE's happy (a lab full of toys, 6 weeks training/year, 6 weeks vacation/year, project commissions).
Most other company certifications are "knowledge" tests. Micro~1.oft's certs are a joke, and I know of several places which will not consider any candidate with MCSE on their CV. Novell's used to be considered a joke, the term "paper CNE" was coined because there were schools turning out CNE's who had no more than 20 hours total time with computers. I've enough horror stories of paper CNE's and MCSE's to last several lifetimes.
Some certs can only be passed with an appropriate level of knowledge and experience, I have a new appreciation of Oracle after reviewing their new tests. The CISSP is considered a comprehensive exam which cannot just be passed by simple studying, and they require you to document at least two years of direct work experience in security before allowing you to take the exam.
In the meantime, I have been considering other potential certifications to supplement my resume while I'm working toward my bachelor's degree.
As someone who hires, I can tell you I value a real degree from a real university much more than any certificates. A real degree means you learned many useful skills, not just passed a couple of written exams. I might be hiring for a network monkey position, but the job also requires good language skills, maths, report writing, drafting, and accountancy. If you have studied art history, music, or politics, you will be a much more interesting cow-orker during our bar trips^W^Wteam meetings.
Get your degree. In this shitty economy, you'll need that to get your foot in the door. When you do get a job, you'll certainly start at the bottom, but do everything you can to get your hands on equipment, even if only in your spare time. Later add some certs, and then you will be able to get the jobs you want.
the AC
Results of a recent certification survey (Score:2)
One interesting result was that the fastest growing certifications were Linux Professional Institute Certified (LPIC) Level 1 and the Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE).
MSCE (Score:1)