Is Hacking Cars a Thing of the Past? 748
"Ever since electronic ignitions, and especially ones controlled by computers, it seems the "hackability" and user-maintainability of cars has been declining. Your neighborhood grease monkey can't do much to a modern car without a bunch of electronic gear interfacing to the car's computer. It's almost a little anti-competitive.
Carbeurators, and the other mechanical systems which were fairly standard and visible and self-evident, really seem to be the equivalent of "open source", while the new computer-based systems seem to be more closed and proprietary. I know in the early days of cars with computers, there were third party ROM upgrades for performance tweaking; I'm guessing that's falling by the wayside more and more, as these systems get more and more complex.
It almost seems like a Microsoft-like statement, to tell you they're doing all of this to reduce theft, while really they're doing it to ensure you are forced into coming back to their dealerships..."
A better question (Score:1, Informative)
Car Theft (Score:1, Informative)
Their goal... (Score:4, Informative)
Audi Performance and Racing (Score:5, Informative)
Besides, installing a remote car starter isn't my idea of a real hack. How is that any more of a "hack" than installing a new car radio? Obviously, you weren't able to bypass the security system, so you're not much of a hacker.
Expensive Car Parts Needed (Score:4, Informative)
Reb
Re:People Still Use Car Alarms? (Score:4, Informative)
My car, a '99 Olds Alero, has the same thing. It's a nice feature, especially considering I live in the car theft capital of Canada (Regina). It can be a pain for things like car starters and getting extra keys made, but overall I like the idea.
Re:Car security (Score:2, Informative)
spare key (Score:5, Informative)
You would, of course, be essentially disabling that part of the anti-theft system, but thieves now have ways around it anyway. If the key profile is identical to pre-chipped versions, it would also mean you could run your car with a non-chipped key, which is a lot easier to fit on your keychain.
Step back and think about it. (Score:5, Informative)
As for third-party ROM upgrades, these things are falling by the wayside because, among other reasons, most onboard computers use EEPROMS now, and when most people monkey with their engines they just wind up wrecking the timing and trashing the performance anyway.
And there's not reason to compare everything you dislike to Microsoft. That radio keylock is a Honda option, nobody forced you to buy it, nobody is keeping you from removing that option from your car, and so on. A little time with a pair of diags and a soldering iron will remove the problem forever.
As for leaving a spare key installed, what makes you think that's less secure than installing a remote starter? I built a little gadget not six months ago. It's a lot of fun. I go into a mall parking lot and press a button. A couple of 555 timers start cranking... and a few seconds later so do all the tricked-out imports in the parking lot. Granted, I still can't get in the vehicles, but I sure can start 'em up.
In conclusion, if you want to play with your engine, or your ignition system, or whatever, buy a car you know how to work on. If you buy a 2002 model and can't figure out how to monkey with it, don't blame the auto manufacturer for knowing more about cars than you.
Similar Article in Sunday's Boston Globe (Score:2, Informative)
Now, this is hacking cars.. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:A better question (Score:2, Informative)
That person wouldn't exactly be a car thief, now, would he? He'd be a CD thief.
There isn't much that's going to deter busting out windows. Hell, if someone really really wanted to do it without getting busted, a pair of rubber gloves, a slingshot, and a rock would suffice. Then they wouldn't even have to be next to it, and the evidence left behind is negligible.
Car antitheft systems are designed to protect the car itself from physically being driven from one point to another without the owner's consent. Whether that be by immobilization or by making the car more attention getting (lights, horn, etc), its main purpose is to ensure the car stays in one spot.
Tow truck drivers, those are the guys you need to look out for.
Re:Their goal... (Score:5, Informative)
1) End user maintenance. Why can't the car tell you why the check engine light is on? Because the dealers want you to come down to the shop and pay them $40 just to do a diagnosis.
2) Mechanics will get the machines that they need to read the computer codes. The car companies make money indirectly by working with the folks who build these boxes. The mechanics make money because they can charge somebody $40 because a light came on.
#2 really burns me. The computers in the shop are typically PCs housed in a big console with several cables coming out. The cables are simply a black box to the parallel port. There is no reason that this black box cannot be made available in you local Discount Auto.
Once my car is paid for, I'm going to set out to develop a replacement computer of my own design - Just to spite those guys. If anyone is interested or knows where I can get info on the Ford 4.6L engine, please let me know. I've got the shop manuals, and they do a pretty good job of describing the signals coming from the equipment. The next step is to design the hardware. OpenCar anyone? No...wait...that's a lousy name. How about RagTop?
There ARE thriving car-hacking cultures! (Score:2, Informative)
Many other countries have a real strong culture in this area though. For an example, go to Autospeed [autospeed.com], an Australian site where they post weekly articles about auto performance and electronics hacking. Australia is a real hot-spot for this stuff. It doesn't matter that the auto manufacturers are making more complex and advanced products - it just promotes the creation of more brilliant hacks.
If you're interested in programable engine management, adding electonic accessories, etc. all you have to do is dig a little and you'll find a whole world of resources. Just like Tivo, DirectTV, Audrey, or anything else - If you build it people will hack it.
Re:Their goal... (Score:5, Informative)
Twostep
Re:People Still Use Car Alarms? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Their goal... (Score:3, Informative)
Maddest props to Chrysler for making their diagnostic codes [allpar.com] end-user accessible.
Saved me a bundle being able to walk into a good mechanic's shop and saying "Diagnostic code XX, friggin' oxygen sensor."
Re:Their goal... (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, for GM, some Ford, and Chrysler cars at least, you can get the AutoTap [autotap.com] which is a OBDII to RS232 serial adapter combo which lets you get engine parameters in real time from the computer.
Cheers,
LV
(owner of a 400hp TransAm with n2o injection)
Re:A better question (Score:2, Informative)
.kb
OBD-3 and big brother (Score:5, Informative)
---
OBD-III TECHNOLOGIES
Three ways to send/receive data:
Roadside reader
Local station network
Satellite
---
That's right, a radio link to tell big brother where you are, and what your car is doing. Why??
---
ENFORCEMENT MECHANISMS
Incorporate into biennial I/M program
Read fault code to screen for vehicles that need complete testing
Pass or short test for vehicles with no fault code
Does not speed up repair process
Out-of-cycle inspection
Compile and screen data
Mail notice to vehicle owner requiring out-of-cycle inspection within 10 days
Require Certificate of Compliance (C of C) on next registration/resale, or
Require C of C within 30-60 days, with citation for noncompliance
Enforce citation via court and/or DMV penalty at next registration
Roadside Pullover
CHP flags down vehicles with fault codes
Technician verifies problem by inspecting and/or testing vehicle
Issuance of notice requiring out-of-cycle inspection
Same enforcement (C of C
---
On the other hand they also realise that there are legal issues by this statement on their site.
---
OBD-III raises 4th Amendment search and seizure privacy issues:
''The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated...''
---
But afterwards state that the OBD system should be leagal because it's a nondiscrimitory, mass population product. Whereas the 4th amendment only protects individual privacy and not a group of individuals.
Read more about this at
Sema web site [sema.org]
Re:Evolution (Score:2, Informative)
All vehicles are required to comply with OBD-II, which is a standard for the way the vehicle monitors performance and emissions. This creates a strict set of parameters for vehicle operations...performance modifications often take the vehicle out of these parameters and causes the control system to report a problem...if the discrepency is great enough, the vehicle will often go into "limp-in" mode, shutting down all systems other than those necessary for the vehicle to drive to the nearest service station...
Here's a good summary of OBD-II
http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/ES/TA/prest
BTW - I like 1962 Lincoln Continentals...
Re:Their goal... (Score:2, Informative)
A true way to prevent your car from being stolen.. (Score:2, Informative)
Now I'm laughing since I read the same story in a car-mag (think it was Carcraft) a few months ago.
Back on-topic, the best way to prevent your nearly new car from being stolen is to wire a hidden switch into the fuel pump circuit. Forget about clubs, they won't stop someone who's determined.
If you shut off the fuel pump circuit when you park, the sequence of events when a thief steals your car will be as follows:
1) they break into the car (well duh!)
2) they break off any clubs, etc
3) they break the ignition lock
4) start the car (it will still start without the pump)
5) they drive about 50 feet and the car stalls (no more fuel)
Now, the thief is totally exposed with onlookers wondering why he stopped his car in the middle of the parking lot. You can bet that he'll run for it since he can't futz around with so much attention.
The key is to make sure the kill switch is hidden or non-obvious. I've seen friends use the cigarette lighter (they didn't smoke) as the switch. Pretty sneaky eh?
Although my insurance company won't give me a discount for this "anti-theft" system, I'd rather still have my car than a few more bucks in my pocket.
I've been hacking on cars (old and new) for 20 years and this is the best anti-theft system I've thought of for cars with electric fuel pumps.
GRH
Not true at all (Score:2, Informative)
Now with computer control the variables are handled, changing fuel ratio is as easy as tuning a knob or changing a parm in a laptop.
Sure it requires a different set of tools, tools which might make the average greese monkey who has never worked on anything more moden then a carbed 5.0 motor cring in fear, but the fact is the data that is available via the ECU, and the ease with which engine parms can be changed is way better then before. Modern diagnostics make troubleshooting disturbingly easy.
And lets not forget the actual engines themselves are not all that different. The only "new" fangled thing is variable cam timing and even that is still just a "variation" hehe of a theme. you still have to get air in, and as much of it as possible, inject the right amount of fuel, ignite the spark at the right time, and get rid of all the burnt gas.
In the old days you could only make course adjustments that effected the entire operating range of the motor. And you can still do that today. But today you also have the ability to optimize the entire range of operation with no sacrifices. Some might call the complicated, I call that elegance and simplicity because now I can just do what I want and not have to think about striking a balance.
No. Cars are EASIER today then they were 15 years ago. When I can spend $95 on a Palm M100 and $165 on a cable and software to be able to interface with my cars computer don't tell me it is too expensive either. Just admit that you aren't willing to learn something new and you can't think outside your own self-imposed box. Cause it isn't that complicated and the basic principles of an internal combustion engine haven't changed.
Hell I know guys who are able to mod their cars to go fast who I know darn well couldn't work on a carb, or time a distributor to save their life. But they sure can punch a number into a laptop.
Some people in Germany hack their diesel cars... (Score:2, Informative)
In general, vegoil is much thicker than mineral diesel, requiring the fuel system to work harder - the injection pump might break after some time, or the injectors become dirty by inefficiently combusted fuel. So they heat the vegoil before giving it into the injection system. If you have ever put some oil into a pan and heated it, you'll know why - it's getting thin like water and much easier for the diesel engine to handle. Heat is being provided by electrical equipment, similar to a coffee-maker, or by the engine's watercooling system.
There is a community who shares experiences, plans and reports about their modifications on "http://www.fmso.de/" (in German), in a way which is quite similar to the free-software development most of us are familiar with. AFAIK in other countries like France or the UK there is a "vegoil community", too.
Sheer horsepower is not the main reason - most of them drive old non-turbo diesel engines with 50 or 60 hp, and these things don't really become faster with vegoil (there are a few ones who even hack their new TDI (Audi/VW) or CDI (Mercedes) engines - they _are_ hackable if you know how). However, vegoil is much cheaper (EUR 0.45/l) than mineral diesel (EUR 0.80/l), and it is neutral on carbondioxide - the engines spit at most the amount of CO2 into the atmosphere which the oil plants have consumed a year ago. Particles and toxic pollutions are much lower with vegoil than with dino diesel. Yet the main reason for most of these people to hack their cars is "just for fun".
BTW no one of them has a remote-controlled engine starter - these things are illegal in Germany because of unnecessarily polluting the air. If you want to have a warm car on a freezy winter morning, use a combustive or electrical (AC-powered) heating system.
Actual Reply (Score:2, Informative)
But there's no need to buy the expensive modules the remote starter company says is required for transponder key setups... their $20-$30 adapter is actual nothing except 3 wires, a relay and a spare key.