Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Toys

Small Embedded Computer with 802.11 for RC Car? 25

Milo_Mindbender asks: "For some time now I've been wanting to build an RC car with an on-board computer and an 802.11 link back to the PC in my office for telepresence experiments (and just plain fun). As I'm planning on doing this on my own dime, the big problem has been finding a reasonablly cheap and low power embedded system board with 802.11 and the right 'ins' and 'outs' to handle controling the motors (a parallel port at minimum)." Many seriously cool devices could come from an embedded 802.11 system, and I'm sure computer controlled RC cars are just the beginning. Has the Embedded Computing camp hopped on the wireless networking bandwagon? If not, what's the delay?

"I'm interested in doing two versions of the gadget, one using a system with a less powerful CPU that could do simple preprogramed moves and a second one that would have a CPU with enough power to do low-res video and two-way audio. I figure it would be a riot to remote drive one of these things anyplace in the office complex that has 802.11, stick a high-gain antenna on it and you could probably send it down the elevators and out into the parking lot! Has anyone seen an embedded system with 802.11 of either power level that might fit the bill?"

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Small Embedded Computer with 802.11 for RC Car?

Comments Filter:
  • It would be quite cool to have a ethernet controlled car. Don't know how feasible it is, but it sure as hell is a good idea. Could also suit things such as a ethernet helicopter etc etc.

    It sounds like you'd need a custom type board for it, but I think this could definately be the new style of remote controlled stuff...
  • Try This (Score:2, Interesting)

    by TheGonzoKid ( 544822 )
    This product looks to be about what you want, http://www.linux-wlan.com/products/dk80211b.html I don't think it says anything about the price though.
  • by Splork ( 13498 ) on Thursday December 27, 2001 @10:50PM (#2757172) Homepage
    See Ampltd [ampltd.com] for their Tiny886ULP PC-104 board with a crusoe [transmeta.com] processor. Add 802.11 to that using CompactFlash or USB and you've got a low wattage high performance x86 system.

    (other pc-104 boards with much slower cpus are available for a bit less money)
  • Telepresence robot (Score:3, Informative)

    by Omega Hacker ( 6676 ) <omega@omega[ ]net ['cs.' in gap]> on Thursday December 27, 2001 @10:52PM (#2757174)

    I built one while working at OGI a few years ago. I've got a copy of the pages on my current server, at http://www.temple-baptist.com/~omega/ogimabot2/ [temple-baptist.com], with a little info on it. I should see if the prof. I was working with still has the slides to convert to HTML...

    They're supposedly going to be building a new one soon, and so my research into a next-gen robot may be put to use. I was looking very closely at the Cell Computing parts (http://www.cellcomputing.com/ [cellcomputing.com]), which aren't cheap ($1k-$1.5k depending), but are the right size and somewhat designed for that kind of stuff. Put that in (instead of on top of, like the current bot) the car (thinking of using a monster-truck chassis) and you can do pretty good. Email me if you have other questions, because I spent a huge amount of time on this project and its related issues.... nospam_omega@temple-nospambaptist. com

  • I have an old p120 sitting around.
    But, how would you power the computer?
    You could use a Laptop, but that would take all the fun away.
  • 802.11b... Why mess with a RC car and not utilize wireless technology?

    Use this to control the car as well.
  • You need something like a palm pilot is size and power. 802.11b is also too much, standard VHF, some sort of wireless serial scheme or Bluetooth is probally a better way to control things.

    If you think about what a car needs to do, 802.11b becomes more complicated than the actual application.
  • by cr0sh ( 43134 ) on Thursday December 27, 2001 @11:58PM (#2757310) Homepage
    Good idea, but I don't think you will be able to get everything down to the small size I am assuming you are planning on, and still have enough power to run everything (ie, the car, the computer, etc).

    Honestly, if you wanted to do such a thing, I would look into using a 1/4 scale R/C car (read: big, noisy, and expensive), or possibly a go-cart (ie: network enabled Yerf-Dog). Either way, it won't be cheap, but you will gain the power needed to keep everything running for a while.

    If you don't need to keep things running for a long time, or you don't need the range, then why do the 802.11?

    Grab an FM or PCM radio control box, hook it up to the computer, and control the car. Use VHF/UHF for the camera feedback loop - if you want data feedback, you might try dropping a line of LEDs in the video frame (ie, 8 bits with a read out, digitize using a frame grabber at the remote PC), or look into dropping data into the VBI (potentially that would be more power consuming - ie, to find a VBI insertion module small enough that uses R/C car voltage levels). Or, use telemetry radio modules (Parallax sells them for the basic stamp series).

    You would have all the telepresence experimentation room, but could keep the package small and relatively low cost...
  • Here [rabbitsemiconductor.com] is the cheapest and easiest to use ethernet enabled micro. $49 qty (1)gets you 256k flash program memory, 128k ram and 22Mhz clock speed. You could plug this into an 802.11 base station. Go here [gadgeteer.org] to control an Etch-A-Sketch that is on the web using one of these.
  • Yes. You might recognize one of their products. It's called a wireless access point.
  • And use a Basic stamp and a UHF camera.
    That way you wouldn't need any bandwidth for the cAmera, which would run about 200$
    and a UHF controller with 8 i/o pins can be had for about 100$ at hobby shop.
    The basic stamp is about 60$ from parralax.
    You could rig the Remote right to the motors and such, but I would hook it up to a computer, that way you have a stationary computer controlling it, and put a tv-tuner on it, so you can see the UHF camera aswell. Then, create a perl program that would say....output +5 on a certain line on the LPT port to turn left, +5 on another for right, etc.
    That would be hooked the the remote, which would inturn put +5 into the Basic stamp, which would then execute the turn.
  • I used a RC car, and put a X10 camera on it. I wired the car's remote control to the parallel port, and fed the video in - so I could wander around the office with it on my screen, controlled via keyboard.

    Pretty fun. The range on the remote wasn't amazing though - could fix that by going to a better car.

    -
  • ...stick a high-gain antenna on it and you could probably send it down the elevators and out into the parking lot!

    Just to clarify, in case it helps... (not nitpicking here). High gain antennas are, like the name says, antennas that transmit stronger signals than 'usual' ones. However, they don't use any kind of magic to do this; there is a price. They are more directional, meaning that they exhibit high gain in one direction and very low gain in others.

    An example of this is a flashlight (after all, light is just another form of electromagentic waves). If you take the reflector off of a mag light, you get a bulb that glows equally in all directions (omnidirectional). If you put the reflector on, you can light something much brighter, but you have to point the flashlight directly at it. Also, the area behind the flashlight is completely in the dark.

    So, a high gain antenna for your car would probably do best at the transmitting end, where you can point it at the car as at moves. An ordinary whip antenna (not quite omnidirectional - it's ineffective when you view the antenna end-on) on the car should be fine.

    If you want to get really fancy, then go ahead and get a high gain antenna for the car. The problem is that you'll need some sort of tracking device to aim this antenna back at the base station. And when you detect that you've lost the signal due to misaiming (hit a bump, jumped off the curb, etc.), you need an algorithm to autonomously find the base station before you get run over by a big truck. Now you know one reason why nasa missions are complicated.
  • One idea that came to my mine is why not hack an access point and use it to control the car? After all:

    1. Access points are getting cheaper every day.
    2. Companies line DLink and others make very small AP's that could be used.
    3. AP's contain an small embedded computer with a CPU, some FLASH memory and an 802.11b card (often the same PCMCIA card used in notebook PC's, just contained within the AP)

    It would take some work, but I believe with some hacking you could build an add-on module with some support firmware to allow for external I/O. I have a Addtron AP that I couldn't resist cracking open to look at. I noticed there was an AMD 80186 embedded CPU inside. I believe this is compatible with the 80x86 so you may be able to write code in C++ or Intel Assembly language to program the chip. Just some ideas...

  • A slashdot fave, why not consider the Intrinsyc cerfBoard? [intrinsyc.com] It's small, got an ultra-low-power StrongARM CPU, PCMCIA for 802.11, and runs Linux too.

  • Just to clarify (Score:3, Informative)

    by Milo_Mindbender ( 138493 ) on Friday December 28, 2001 @10:41PM (#2761325) Homepage
    The main reason we wanted to go with an 802.11 wireless ethernet was because it would have enough speed to send back video, and it would work anywhere in our offices that has the net setup. And by high-gain antenna, I just ment a high-gain omindirectional one...the antennas on most wireless cards are far from optimal.


    We did try the thing with X10-wireless cam which is what got us started on this whole thing. It was TONS of fun but the problem was the X10 cam gets a pretty poor quality picture when the car is moving and bouncing around.

  • Think bigger.. Get one of those av carts or mail carts around the office.. and replace the wheels, add the cam, spare laptop... and anything else you want.

    It doesnt have to go fast.. just needs plunty of power, besides what kind of refresh rate do you expect from the cam?

    Just think... throw a tv up on there.. design some kind of arm thing to hold the camera and manipulate... and run it around the office playing I spy..

    Even cooler idea for the remote cart... those interesting buisness meetings... Drive the cart into the boardroom and then display your presentations from it.

    After you have figured out how to get the control down, discovered what problems you had, and what other implementations you would need to miniturize the operation.. then, and only then you can even try putting that crap on a rc car...

    BTW... I dont think you could control my rc monster truck via WIFI.. the thing can go 30mph and uses nitros for fuel.. I love doing donuts on outdoor basketball courts.

    DRACO-
  • Muffins (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Graymalkin ( 13732 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @03:29AM (#2761730)
    A useful link would be here [linuxdevices.com] over at LinuxDevices.com. The board I might suggest to you in the Bitsy with its PCMCIA slot on board. With 16MB of RAm and 32MB of Flash ROM you'd have plenty of space to stick some software to run your car. Grab an off the shelf 802.11 PCMCIA card you can find drivers for and you've got it networked. The board also has USB which works for a camera and total of 21 digital IOs that you can use to control the components of the RC car. A bonus is the card also has audio in and out so you can turn your little car into a little talking robotic badass.
  • the car is allready wireless, why not figure out a way to control the remote via a serial port ?
  • I was thinking of doing the same thing (but on a slightly largert scale) I recommend that you get a cheap Ipaq and a 802.11b add on card. for I/o with the motors (on the R/c car) you can look at hacking the serial cable to control them. the plusses for doing it this way is that you are using off the shelf parts.
  • I did somthing similer at my old office.. We used a parallel port on a pc wired to the RC controller via relays, then used a runtime version of Dragon's speach software and some quick and dirty VB (gasp)to drive the thing using a headset. After this we tried sticking an X10 cam on it, but the bumping caused VERY poor performance from the cam. I would love to do an 802.11B version of an RC Blimp. Anyone ever see these things? How much weight can they carry?
  • I have read the whole thread and am amazed that only one other reader recommended a PC104 solution. I have been working on PC104 for a wearable 802.11 data acquisition system, this could easily be adapted to your car project. History and rough details: PC104 is a form factor PC board that is 3.6" x 3.8". They are available with many processor choices, just depends on what you want to spend (both in $ acquiring and in power during operation), but most of the available models have serial, parallel, and ps2 built in standard, and most have PCM/CIA (for your 802.11), EIDE(if you need it), CompactFlash (a bootable EIDE substitute & no moving parts), and USB for your camera. The little squarish modules are stackable, so if you need something else just add it on, as I stated above I needed a analog data acquisition board, no problem.

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

Working...