Techie, Wrench-head, or Both? 96
An Anonymous Coward
throws this spanner into the works by asking: "OK, a response to another Slashdot question has made me wonder... Can techies fix cars? I know computers very well, I can fix VCRs, and I can wire home theater systems but I don't know the slightest thing about my car. I am not sure I even want to but I thought some other Slashdoters might want to way in on that. Could it be the whole "getting dirty" thing with cars? What do you think? How well do you know the inner workings of that thing that sits in the driveway?" I used to think I liked taking anything apart, not just computers, but after spending a few frustrating afternoons maintaining my car, I figured such things were best left to the professionals. However, I may be a minority in this, based on the responses from the last auto-related question.
Not for me (Score:3, Funny)
David
Cleaning Your Hands (Score:1, Informative)
Good soap. Lava is OK, but "Work Soap" (that's the brand name) by the makers of SoftSoap, is good. There are other, better soaps, usually with lanolin in them. Most decent auto shops sell them.
Finally, there's these prophylactic hand cremes you apply before you get dirty. Makes taking dirt off easier. Gloves would be great, but latex breaks down right away, leaving you with nitrile (they're blue) gloves as about the only choice. However, given the number of sharp corners and surfaces, don't expect the gloves to last long. Other rubber gloves don't provide enough tactile feedback to be of help.
Re:Cleaning Your Hands (Score:1)
Just wet your hands, and put a bit of detergent on your hands. I find that if you tip the bottle upside down and back, the stuff that clings to the cap is enough to go up to your elbows.
Re:Cleaning Your Hands (Score:1)
One tip (Score:1)
Bada-Bing -- no more mess on the hands....
not a bannana-boat, I hope (Score:2)
Re:not a bannana-boat, I hope (Score:2)
Fuel cells? That makes things worse, I think (Score:2)
Re:Fuel cells? That makes things worse, I think (Score:2)
Building your own fuel cell won't be easy (Score:2)
Re:Not for me (Score:1)
Cars are annoying(you're not alone) (Score:1)
thinks are cool anymore. Except vaporous yuppies in SUV's
All the hip techies ride bikes to work because they are smart and know that
a lifetime of sitting behind the keyboard with no exercise will be shorter and less happy than one
with exercise.
Plus which bikes are scrutable, like Free Software.
Re:Cars are annoying(you're not alone) (Score:2)
A good example is my Ford Contour: although the on-board comp can't actually seize control of the shift lever (the Corvette's can!), it can refuse to put the power back on after the shift if it thinks my doing so is not in the best interest of the engine. And that's not even an adaptive control system! A good friend of mine decided to leave the wrenching world when he was trying to diagnose a problem with an automatic transmission, and the computer changed the behaviour of the trans every time he drove it. Even Windows 98 doesn't do that!
sPh
Cyclists are arrogant, film at eleven. (Score:2)
So that's why I like them!
C-X C-S
ObSpandexIsFuglyNoMatterHowTonedYourAssIs:
One pro to cars even you can agree with: people don't wear neon spandex while driving them.
Why do cyclists feel the need to wear that crap?
You're just riding a damn bike, not being jammed into a giant anime robot [utexas.edu].
(Yes, I know that's not a robot. But it's close enough.)
No Clear Answer (Score:2)
Definately! (Score:1)
Personally, I have a '78 Ford F100 waiting for restoration/modification.
To some its a strange combination. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:To some its a strange combination. (Score:2, Insightful)
When I was very young, I started taking things apart when nobody was looking. One day I took apart (and broke) a desktop thermometer, and my father caught me. He immediately created a new house rule: I could take apart anything I wanted, without asking -- if I could put it back together again afterwards.
Thus emboldened, I started taking apart everything in sight. In the early days, there were lots of parts left over, but the devices always worked when I was through with 'em.
When my father brought home our first computer (a Compaq 'luggable' portable computer, circa 1981) the same rules applied. I applied the same brute force techniques, and learned everything I could.
Ultimately, computers is cars is phones is musical instruments is printing presses is lighting fixtures...devices are devices. Some just get dirtier than others. I know how to recover after a hard drive crash, I know how to replace a starter, and I know how to do hundreds of other things that help me get through the day.
And believe you me, my wife's happy to have a handyman in the house.
Re:To some its a strange combination. (Score:2, Funny)
-
the grease is a turn off (Score:1)
On a technical level, cars are neato keen, like any machine. I enjoy learning the technical details of how they work a lot, but the practical application of that technology is far too messy.
Re:the grease is a turn off (Score:2, Funny)
Where did the dust puppy from UF come from then?? ;)
Cars??? SURE!!!!! (Score:3, Informative)
Zen (Score:5, Insightful)
It says that one of the major things wrong with society today (and yesterday and tomorrow) is the "leave it to the pros" mentality that many people adopt regarding 'technology,' be it a computer, a leaky faucet, a motorcycle, or a car. I think most slashdotters have a DIY frame of mind when it comes to computers, but I think limiting that attitude to computers alone is confusing. One of the key elements of a curious, enthusiastic, and gumptionful attitude is that it encompasses anything and everything it comes across. So, before you write off car maintainence, think about the zeal with which you would attack a similar problem on a computer, think about what knowledge and tools you are missing to perform said fix, and get to it!
Brain power vs muscle power (Score:1)
An IT guy has it the other way around.
Sweat or not, I'd rather have my brain engaged 90% of the time, so I work with computers instead of cars.
Also, if you look at what you pay for a mechanic vs what you can get paid consulting, your time is much better spent on computer problems!
But if you actively enjoy getting grungy, hey, go for it...
Re:Zen (Score:1)
My zeal comes twofold: first, I either know how to fix the problem beforehand or do the research. Second, I know the signs that I've gotten in over my head and it's time to call a professional. Not that I've never had the pro tell me I totally destroyed something before, but any bad experience can be a learning experience.
Cars are -easy- (Score:5, Insightful)
Most car troubles are fixed with simple, bolt-on parts. Starters, water pumps, alternators, and most commonly brakes, are bloody simple to replace. A couple of bolts, a wire or two, perhaps a belt and you're done - with enough extra money left over to buy a new bigass hard drive.
Suspension parts are easy. I replaced a rear wheel bearing on my Beretta in about a half hour. Shocks took slightly longer, but were still a walk in the park.
Oddly enough, I often find it easier to work on my car's hardware than my computer's. I don't want to remove every wire connecting my PC to the outside world when I work on it, just as I don't want to remove the engine from a car to change the spark plugs. Thus, I find myself crawling under desks, with my head and shoulders tucked between two shelves, and using my third elbow to install a new DIMM. Whereas, on a car, one simply puts the thing in gear, drives up a set of cheap portable ramps, and sets the brake to get at the guts inside.
Diagnosing a car is much like diagnosing failing computer hardware in terms of thought processes required. Does it crank? No. Does it click? Yes. Measure the voltage of the battery - if voltage is sane, the battery is charged and it's either a dead starter motor or a bad connection. If not, the battery is discharged, either due to age, abuse, bad alternator, or a bad connection.
Simple stuff. Turn the power on a PC. Does it boot? No. Do any fans spin? Yes. Check connections, re-seat memory, CPU and anything else that plugs in. Does machine still not boot? Yes. Measure power supply voltage. If it's sane, toss the motherboard.
I treat internal motor problems differently, but I also treat component-level problems on, say, a flakey motherboard differently as well. Which is to say, that I don't care enough to learn how to fix them - if I burn a piston on my car, it's either getting a different engine, getting fixed by someone who knows what they're doing, or being thrown away. Just like I would do with a motherboard which, for some reason, stopped doing DMA (though I'd be most likely to replace it first, and seek professional opinion later).
Point is, it's the same thing. The parts are heavier, and often dirtier, but I've never had sneezing fits from an oil-covered spark plug boot. The cruft inside of a 5-year-old PC is a different story.
And, besides, there's interesting problems to overcome. The vacuum resevoir's mounting tab broke off on my car. I noticed sthis ometime after the front tire had worn a hole into it, and delayed repairs until sometime after it had fallen off completely. Symptoms? Strange noises at odd times, and no control of heater vent selection under acceleration.
By the time I got around to doing something about it, it was not obvious at all where the thing originally mounted. I found a replacement resevoir and a length of suitable tubing at a junk yard for (literally) a couple of dollars. Using stout, expensive wire ties I attached it to one of the shocks inside of the front bumper cover. Fed the new vacuum line along the loom with the a bunch of wires and other stuff to the check valve where the old one connected.
The new location offers good protection from road debris. I'm satisfied that it won't ever break loose or become disconnected, unless I hit something hard enough to dislodge my teeth. It is thus better than the original.
Same thing with the stainless steel strap I fashioned together with grade 8 nuts and bolts to hold the muffler in place, rather than the rusty, and poorly-riveted iron strap that came from the factory. The OEM strap, given a few Ohio winters, didn't survive the impact of the car falling a few inches when the rear wheel bearing snapped. The new one, which I made from stuff I had sitting around, should outlive me, regardless of what type of abuse I deliver to it. I have no doubt that it will be justfine when the car once again goes skidding, bottomed-out, along the roadway as a complete wheel (and half of the brakes!) go bouncing merrily away. [not that I'm looking forward to a repeat of that particular episode.] GM didn't do this because it's relatively expensive, just as Dell doesn't use solid copper Alpha heatsinks for their customers' overclocking joy.
But I'm not GM or Dell. I'll use a copper heatsink if I feel like it, and I'll make up for it (with change to spare) by installing it myself.
Pride, cash in my pocket, and a working automobile that I learned something new about, which is now in some way better than new. What's not to love?
-
Re:Cars are -easy- (Score:2)
I've fixed a £500 car that had an estimate of "at least £1500, and that's before we even think about the welding" with £60 worth of parts, but it was several days work (mostly on the welding). For some people that's worth it, for others it isn't.
> Starters, water pumps, alternators, and most commonly brakes, are bloody simple to replace.
Not on my Alfa the brakes weren't. You had to take the whole transaxle off to get at the rear brakes (inboard disks on De Dion suspension). In theory you could get at them through a panel under the rear seat, but that only worked if the pins came out without a hammer and drift.
Changing an engine after I had a valve head go through a piston (in a different car) wasn't much harder.
Some things are getting harder with newer cars. My old Renault 6 you could look under the hood and tell what every single wire and tube did. The only vacuum line went from the manifold to the distributer, and if you sucked on it you could see the baseplate rotate (or not, but it did once it was cleaned up).
When I first got the Subaru that was my car before last, it was running really roughly. I found the problem was a disconnected vacuum (I think) hose, just because I happened to notice the hose end in mid-air fairly close to a T piece with only two hoses on. It connected two plastic lumps with some hose and wires to a block on the side of the inlet manifold with some more hoses and wires. Given the full workshop manual for the exact model, I could probably find out exactly what it was, but the mechanic at the generic MOT/tyre/exhaust place I was using didn't have any idea, he just knew the emissions were barely within spec. The mechanic at the Subaru dealer I used later didn't know either, and since it was fixed by then it wasn't worth him spending time to research it.
Another car I solved a "doesn't start sometimes, cuts out sometimes in heavy rain" problem by replacing points, plugs, leads, condensor, rotor arm and distributer cap - it wasn't worth tracing exactly where the problem was, and all the parts were cheap. When my parents not-very-much-newer Cavalier had a problem the AA guy thought was in the ignition, we were testing it by swapping components with mine (luckily at the time I had a similar age Cavalier (car before the Subaru)) because it was an encapsulated sensor talking to a "module". (The problem turned out to be more fundamental - the camshaft had sheared, so the belt end was turning, but the distributor wasn't).
Re:nope (Score:1)
are you serious? what was he doing? it's something like 5 bolts off and then back on, i had a flat over the xmas break and it took no more than 3 mins to change, the only problem was that it was something like 35c so it was rather warm :)
Re:nope (Score:1)
-
Re:nope (Score:1)
I like cars, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Some people here are saying they think cars are too messy, too noisy, too big, whatever. Personally, I just like finding out how _anything_ works. Yes, _anything_.
I'm the kid who dismantled half his toys to find out what was inside them, who dismantles every click-action biro he ever gets his hands on to see what the mechanism does this time (there's surprising variety)... you get the idea. I don't actually do any more severe work on my car than changing wheels, simply because I've never had the time or enthusiasm to learn and I don't trust myself not to get something wrong and cause a dangerous / expensive problem. But I can describe to you how most of the bits there work and talk about new advances in the technology. I've done almost all my own bicycle maintenance and I've spent hours working building model vechicles and components in Meccano. No dislike for the mechanical, just no incentive (yet) to work on my car.
We're all different, we're all attracted to computers for different reasons. My reason happens to be the same reason that I'm interested in cars - and, well, pretty much anything mechanical. Yours may not be. Welcome to the diverse world of Computing.
a case of environmental hereditary.... (Score:1)
if your dad (or mom) always changed the oil, headlights, rebuilt the caberator, or even changed out the cam shaft on an 86 caddy (of the small variety, not an easy feat), you're probably going to have a much lesser fear of getting black and greasy. who knows, your parents (like mine) might have gotten you a set of 'grease clothes' from goodwill for when you did maitinence on the vehicle.
at the age of 18, i've dabbled in linux and taken all the avalible comp sci classes at my highschool, set up a home theater system in my room, and all the various stories of "taking apart all my toys as a kid" that you slashdotters out there keep bragging about : ) now for my own bragging...
my dad passed away about 2 months ago, leaving me with his truck, boat, and 83 caddilac...with 63k miles on it. the cam shaft is shot, but the leather interior, power everything works like brand new. i'm in the process of (basically) disassembling the entire engine and radiator assembly to replace said camshaft, so that I can have my 4 door convertable (once i wield in a subframe and chop the top off).
most 'geeks' wouldn't be up to the task before them, if they hadn't been brought up in a mechanical-friendly environment. several other posts have mentioned that most people leave 'complicated things' to the pros. you probably aren't going to be 'mr. mechanic' if you wern't introduced to car mechanics before highschool somehow.
Re:a case of environmental hereditary.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh, to answer the question, I'm a wrenchhead and a computer geek. Learning makes me happy, creating make me happy, and variety makes me happy. That's why.
Re:a case of environmental hereditary.... (Score:1)
Re:a case of environmental hereditary.... (Score:2)
to analog, to much work :) (Score:2, Interesting)
If you spot a problem inside a car's motor you have to crawl around, lift heavy things, get yourself dirty, hurt yourself with tools and parts with sharp edges and generally waste much time on not-brainwork.
For me the most interesting part is figuring out and solving a problem in theory. If in practice that means I have to do routine tasks for many hours, I usually don't do it at all.
That's the difference between recompilling code and reassembling a motor.
Thanks.
Re:to analog, to much work :) (Score:2, Funny)
i can't tell you how many times i cut my hands up trying to unplug an IDE cable from a hard drive on those stupid HP Vectra's at my first tech job. any work inside those computer usually involved at least one cut on my hands from the unfinished metal inside..
I think it depends on your upbringing... (Score:1)
Just by doing that when you're a kid won't let the "fear" of working with engines and stuff like that set in to begin with.
I know a lot of people who are petrified of the thought of changing the oil, of changing the air filter, hell, of changing the tire.
It really is just the normal human behaviour of being afraid of new things/experiences.
Oh, and I too was the kid that was a walking disaster when I had a screwdriver, dismantling EVERYTHING in my path, but putting it back together in working condition.
Then there's the 'You could die' factor... (Score:1)
seating a brake pad (Score:1)
mis-seating a brake pad probably won't result in a runaway truck. hydraulic failure is statisticly a more scarey event and since I value timely stopping, brakes were the one thing I almost always took to a professional.
I grew up helping my father tune/swap engines and I believe it helped nurture my desire to know how everything works. it dedeified the automobile from the moving godhood's most people seemed to atribute thier sources of transportation.... "the sacred -insertmakehere- refused to start, preventing me from getting to work on time"
a mechanic was not a god but a priest (or priestess) that was sometimes mystified by the fickle operation of the car "it never made that sound when I drove it" or "it never GPFed when I booted it" it's all about expirience.
I've changed a timing chain in -40 windchill and am much more gratefull for having a garage to work in now but I would rathing be watching a 5400 rpm 160gig hd doing a surface scan than doing anything under the hood, it's just where my passion lies.
I believe motor heads are just geeks of a different ilk.
Sure, not a big problem (Score:2)
Now days I get my mechanical fix buy BUILDING steam engines - 1.5" to the foot scale. No these aren't electric models - they have REAL boilers, can bull 20-30 people around and coal.
To do this requires I have a rather nice shop - Metal Lathe, Vertical Mill, arc welders, torch set, etc. (Gotta get a surface grinder someday)
So, yeah, I can fix a car
Cars are not computers (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, okay... I'm a nerd. Sure, I can take apart a computer in less than thirty seconds in most every instance. That's just the nature of the beast.
Cars are different. Don't get me wrong, I do work on my car often--usually aided by my brother, who is a mechanic. Why not do it all myself? Tools. A computer can be nearly completely taken apart with a single #2 phillips screwdriver. A single screwdriver won't get you anywhere on a car. We always like to say "the right tool for the job", but in the car industry nearly every job has its own specialized tools. And those tools can be expensive. My brother's tools ended up costing him over $15,000 when all said and done; and that's not even everything.
I think geeks (like most people) simply don't bother working on their cars because that would mean buying more tools. My garage is full enough with two cars, thanks--I don't want half of that taken up with Ryan's Full Service Center. If I can get my car up to my brother's, I'll work on it there. If not, I'll pay to have the service done locally--only because I don't want pay $50 for necessary tools to replace a $15 part and it will only cost me $40 to get it taken care of. Sure, the tools pay for themselves over time, but I'm just not interested in the losing my car's place in the garage.
Re:Cars are not computers (Score:2)
With that $100 set of tools, I've pulled engines (okay, required an extra $50 for a floor jack), I've replaced water pumps, brakes, starters, etc.
Again, we have a 90/10 situation. 90% of the work done on your car can be done with 10% of your tools.
Of course, YMMV. I drive and work on either domestics or Honda/Toyota grade imports. No BMW's (err... four wheeled BMW's, that is) or Porsche's with utterly bizarre tool requirements.
Re:Cars are not computers (Score:1)
Re:Cars are not computers (Score:1)
How well do you work in analog? (Score:2)
In a car, these things don't always apply. Electricity is intermittent? Perhaps, during a particularly heavy rain, sometimes water gets onto a loose wire and creates a short. And on and on.
Reminds me of the time we were kids and drove to the store with a friend of ours and his little old Italian dad. The car wouldn't start when we came out of the store. So our friend hopped in the driver's seat, and the dad pulled out a hammer, opened the hood, and whacked something. 'Try it now, Freddy!" he yelled. Nothing. Whack, whack. "Again!" Nothing. Whack, whack. Whack! "One more time, I've hit every fucking thing in there." And it started.
I've written code using that approach. :)
windows and cars (Score:1)
It depends on what you're doing on the car (Score:2)
Get some help for the first couple times and from there you'll be all set. Start easy - spark plugs, for example. I started there and now I'm comping at the bit to start ripping the top of the engine apart. Only things stopping me are parts availability (the intake manifold I want is on national backorder), money, and physical resources (rules about working on cars in the apartment complex where I live). Thus far I've replaced my shocks, air intake, throttle body, spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap & rotor, thermostat & fan (and then put the old fan back on when I trashed the new one in a mudpit), added a tonneau cover, trailer hitch, skidplates, and more to my truck. Most of which I did myself.
Once you get into electronics-related stuff, however, or the need to use a scan tool to pull codes stored in the computer to diagnose problems, you're looking at spending serious money or just taking it to a dealer.
It really, really helps to find a club, mailing list, or similar, of people who own the same car yo've got (such as the Durango Owner's Club [durangoclub.com] and Dakota Mailing List [dakota-truck.net]). They can be immensely helpful in getting you started in doing your own maintenance, and will recommend to you better parts than a mechanic or dealer will sell you, probably for less money. They'll also give you confidence you need and sometimes even step-by-step instructions. And in the process, get you spending even more money and time on modding the vehicle.
Re:It depends on what you're doing on the car (Score:2)
You can get the same 'shop manual' plus service bulletins, maintenance schedules, and other things via the web from AllData [alldata.com]. It's a subscription service, so depending on how long you keep your vehicle, it may cost more than the one time cost of the manual from the dealer (if they will sell it to you), but it will be updated when the manufacturer releases new information.
Re:Yes, they can. (Score:1)
There's very infamous cars with spark plugs.
Anyone can change plugs on an overhead cam honda, but on engines where you can't SEE the plugs, it's a whole nother story.
sound cards are sound cards, installing them is cake in almost any computer.
Beyond 'fixing' a car... (Score:2)
I find there is much more to it than 'fixing it when it breaks'. It's an issue of preventative maintenance -- fluids (not just oil!), brakes, shocks, and other moving parts. I have a tendency to keep a car so long that I need to replace the clutch. If one takes proper care of a car, pays attention to what noise is normal (and what isn't), then you won't end up playing catch-up.
Just like windows systems need regular anti-virus updates and other patching, cars need their attention, too. I've bought the Bentley manuals (2-inch thick complete reference books) for every vehicle I've owned, and (for the most part) I follow the maintenance schedules. As a reward, my cars are reliable, and I'm not shackled to a bank via a car payment. The car is mine, period, and I like it that way, thanks.
Another issue comes into play when one is willing (and capable) of such mechanical and electrical prowess -- used cars are a lot less expensive, and when purchased from individuals, you never have to interact with slimius vulgaris Rex, also known as the (used) car salesworm.
I have owned Volkswagens exclusively for 15 years now, and I've been able to appreciate the engineering that has gone into each one. You can see the thought that went into the evolution from original I-4 gas & diesel engines to 15 V-6 (VR6) to the 1.8t & TDI engines popular now. Each one of these has been interesting to work on (I can't absolutely say "fun"), and at least logical in their assembly. The evolution from mechanical/electric to solid-state systems has been great in my opinion; it makes things easier, more powerful, and more efficient. (I especially appreciate OBD-II)
I find that the more I have worked on my cars, the more easily I can diagnose noises and problems. I won't hesitate to dive into an A/C compressor replacement (with its associated 'gotcha's and other 'mandatory replace' components), and repairing a power window is something I can do in an hour after work.
On the other hand, I watched a fellow try to change spark plugs on a Mitsubishi 3000 GT -- he had to remove the intake manifold to get to the rear 3! The more I have looked at other cars, particularly ones of Asian design, the more I realize how VW specialized I have become. Looking at a Toyota Supra Turbo, for example, I almost felt the same way I did the first time I sat down in front of a UNIX computer -- completely out of my element.
automagic (Score:1)
But I defrag my own hard drives!
BOTH! (Score:1)
Some previous cars I have owned include a '68 Mustang with a W-engine code (look it up
My current project is a 90 Dodge Caravan with the engine and electrics from a Shelby mated to the Caravan driveline. Not geek enough? The engine control computer will have to be flashed and tweaked, while being driven, by a Toshiba 610ct laptop mounted to the passenger side dash, which I normally use to play MP3s through the built in stereo. Hacking is done with things electronic as well as things mechanical. Why make a distinction?
For the record: No, I do not enjoy the grease and crap, but necessity doesn't really care what I like, and I trust the safety of my family to no one but myself.
Re:BOTH! (Score:1)
You sir are TWISTED. I salute you.
Re:BOTH! (Score:1)
Re:BOTH! (Score:1)
Your problem obviously was relying on Microsoft Diagnotics to tune your timing. Hasn't worked properly since DOS 3
They are similar (Score:1)
You don't get dirty when you work on computers, but you do get the reward of doing double the legal speedlimit when you're done 'upgrading' a car.
Then again, who's ever gotten a speeding ticket while using a computer?
third option? (Score:2)
My Personal Experience (Score:1)
yes they can! (Score:1)
Just my $0.02.
-Vic
Ah, HARDware... (Score:3, Interesting)
By "day", I am a coder (currently Java, but will hack on anything thrown at me - including - "shudder" - DB/C - a COBOL varient - "shudder"). But when I go home, especially on the weekends - things can get, well...interesting...
On the "low" end I have fun with simple mechanical stuff (case in point - the other night I spent a couple of hours tearing apart, in full - a Logitech Trackman Marble - to clean it. It was a friend's, who gave it to me because it was "broke". He lives in one of those icky, dirty, roach-infested "gee-I-wonder-why" "geek" houses. Needless to say, it now works). Up a little higher I do digital electronic design and interfacing, mainly for custom robotic, virtual reality, and "embedded" application. IE - I break out the soldering iron and multimeter, and become a "wire-head". A little further I start doing fab work - breaking out the bigger tools (ie, dremel, saws, drills, etc) - for a variety of projects in metal, plastic, and wood (typically, these bits of work are parts of similar projects in robotics and VR).
But recently (well, it started soon after I got my first and current vehicle) - I have started down a fun, sometimes exciting, sometimes scary, and always dirty, dirty, dirty - path.
I have, with the help of my brother-in-law (whom I have mentioned in my past comments - he's the guy who drives a 10 wheel dump truck, and thinks nothing of using ether to "air up" a backhoe tire) been learning how to repair my vehicle - as I have learned the basics, I have become more comfortable working around and on it, and other large machines. I have always loved machines, but it used to scare me to think about pulling one apart, changing parts, etc. As I have worked on my vehicle, I have become much more confident. I regularly change my oil (both engine, transmission, and differential - ohh, does gear oil STINK!), spark plugs, battery, etc. I have done both front and rear brakes, drum and disc, repacked bearings, changed shocks, etc. I recently helped my brother-in-law remove and replace his clutch on his pickup, as well as diagnose and fix a loose steering wheel (bad u-joint). I have even learned how to do a home-brew wheel alignment!
This man has showed me a lot - he is all the time tearing his dump truck apart (mainly because it is over 25 years old, and has more new parts than original - but you got to keep it running, because that is his job) - I have seen him take the entire side of his engine off, to replace a blower housing on his engine. I have seen him drop the differential and replace it. He is always changing tires on the thing, or repacking hydraulic rams, or doing something. I have seen this man covered, head-to-toe, in dirt and grease working from sundown to sunup - to keep his truck going and provide for his small family. He is my mentor in these things, and I couldn't ask for a better one.
Recently, he has been teaching me a new "trade": metalwork - mainly Arc Welding. In addition, he has showed me how to properly use an OxyAcetylene torch for cutting steel. In the future, once I have regular stick welding down, I hope to move to an Argon gas wire-feed his dad has in his shop. Grinding, cutting, welding - red to white hot steel, flowing down, dripping near your toes. Hot bits of steel flying past your head (encased safely in a welding mask, of course) - some hitting your arms, and bitting like fire ants - that is what I am learning about.
Where to next - well I have been pondering home-based smelting...
Now, you may ask - how will this help me? I am a coder by day, after all - what good can all this do me? One thing, it lets me take my mind off coding - relaxes it, allowing time off to mull over other things, and maybe solutions to a coding problem come to my head because of that. But you know what I look forward to?
Imagine me combining my knowledge of coding, electronic design and interfacing, fabrication, autowork, metalwork, welding, cutting, grinding, and smelting - what can I design? What can I do?
<Smiling, with visions of a jet powered, teleoperated walking robot dancing in my head...>
I fix it if I have the tools. (Score:1)
It may be a little different from playing with computers, but a car isn't going to BSoD on you either.
I like cars.. (Score:2)
So, I change my oil, flush my coolant, replace worn parts, but that's about it, I don't have the time, money or space for a project car, as much as I'd like to have one.
C-X C-S
Not cars, but airplanes (Score:1)
Techies are good with electronics (Score:1)
engineering beauty & analytical exercise (Score:3, Informative)
Being comfortable working with your hands & getting messy is probably the main difference.
It took me years to be truly comfortable with cars, just as with computers. I had lots of cars that were so crappy that it was unlikely I could make things worse.
They both share:
I take pleasure in their design & execution. Who doesn't like a good hack?
I like understanding how things work, and using that understanding. The question of "why doesn't it work?" is a way to further understanding of how it does work. I also enjoy working with my hands and my mind at the same time.
I have on rare occasion made trivial parts that I needed, and on other occasions used hideous hacks. I have also irreparably broken things.
It's fun looking at something and figuring out "why the hell did they do _that_?" whether the answer is finally money, or a fit of perverse originality.
It's a secure feeling knowing that if you don't understand a problem, it is very unlikely that the professionals will be able to do any better.
Not true of software:
Physical stuff if fun to play with.
Break things. Perhaps only things that can't be used otherwise. They break in interesting ways, if you're paying attention. Besides, they make a great noise.
Service Manuals (Score:2)
Get the factory service manual for your car - not the cheapie Chiltons or Haynes manuals, but the ones that the dealer uses. These go into great detail on how to fix things the right way, with very tech-like flow charts, trouble trees, etc.
A lot of the same characteristics of fixing computers applies to cars - take a methodical, structured approach to things and RTFM. Make one change at a time and see how it affects things.
wow (Score:1)
I made a part that is in EVERY Ford Windstar! (Score:1)
I also mill custom paintball guns, and other misc. paintball parts. And on the occasion built from scratch car parts!
The point is, using geek skills, and losing the fear of getting a bit dirty, one can get pretty crazy with a wrench (this time in a CONSTRUCTIVE way!).
My car... (Score:1)
I don't really care much that I can't work on cars, because I feel as if in the amount of time it takes me to learn how to fix it and actually fix it, I could have more than earned the money for the repairman.
But, I do like working on alot of Electronical stuff, right now I am working on my mp3car system, which is ran by a 300mhz Celeron, and *Ghasp* win98 lite and winamp.
I hate cars... (Score:1)
So, when my car was on its last legs about 3 months ago, I did what it took to buy a brand new Ford Focus Sedan [myfordfocus.com], with a full 5 year extended warranty. Unless I run this thing into a tree or off a cliff, Ford'll fix it. I may do a little electrical work, like installing a homebrew MP3 player with custom display (if I get an extra $1K and some number of days to mess with it). Other than that, I don't want to touch it.
To me, a car is a tool to take me from point A to point B. I don't WANT to hack it, I just want to use it. And, as my priorities change while I age, I'm feeling the same about computers. I just want to install things and mess with them, not hack the code just so the damn thing will compile. People think I'm nuts just wanting to install binary Red Hat RPMs, but that's me. I can compile if I need to, but I don't like doing it; I'd rather USE the app than hack it.
a hack is a hack... (Score:1)
interesting. I've always hacked my own things
(toys, audio, autos, whatever), long before I
found the computer thing to hack. In my typical
fashion, I built my first computer from scratch --
just so I'd know what made it tick. It's not so
strange that I'm a *nix hacker after all
I postulate that most people who hack their
things, are *nix (source code, please
I believe
not be reliant on _someone_else_ to save my ass
when it needs saving most. This is certainly
what attracts me to *nix. Putting forth enough
effort, I can solve most any problem on my system
since I can "get under the hood."
How about it? Any of you other thing-hackers
avid *nix users? How many non-*nix users hack
heavily on their cars?
b
Part of why I'm not a wrench-head... (Score:1)
Something broader, though, is that for a lot in both camps, there's a lot of showing off in it -- whether you're cruising on a Saturday night or bragging about your framerate... and, yes, I know this doesn't apply to everyone out there. But there are significant groups for which this does, and for them, they're simply not as likely to have peers who respect the merits of both, thus they're not pushed in both directions.
Cars and computers are similar (Score:1)
someone read my mind (Score:2)
Lucky me, my wife knows enough about cars so that there's only one of us scratching our heads when a problem comes up. I try to learn from her when I can, but I still don't ever seem to get the hang of them. ("What the hell is the distributor cap again?" etc.)
For the record: yeah, I don't know squat about cars. I hate cars. Cars are a money pit. Anyway, I don't really have a spare car to dink around with. I'm comfortable completely fucking up my computer and then spending a hundred dollars to get it back up and running... but not my car. See, if I screwed my car up real bad, it'd probably end up costing me more than the cost of a whole new computer just to fix one thing! (Well that, and my wife would get really, super pissed off. She could care less about my computer. ;)
Maybe I'd change my mind if I spent some time figuring out how to hook into the car's diagnostic(?) computer. Not sure how much good it'd do, though...
I'll most likely regret this, but here ya go (Score:1)
Cars are as hackable as computers... (Score:1)
Ecks:
Who just finished putting his summer car on dollies and changed his wife's car over to snow tires.
It comes down to time and money (Score:2)
1st & 2nd rules of economics (Score:1)
There are no open-source ratchet wrenches... (Score:2)
On the other hand, you rarely have to upgrade the trusty 1/2 inch socket driver, so once you have collected most of the tools, things get cheaper as time goes along and you begin to be able to solve problems under the hood with only the tools you have.
Personally, I think it's a completely reasonable thing for a geek to do his own auto repair. In my case, it was darned near required-- I hate black magic. I refused to believe that I could not figure out what was going wrong with my truck.
I learned a few things along the way:
What about other hardware? (Score:1)