Do You Like Your Job? 1174
G-shock asks: "I've worked for the government (NASA), large public companies, and small startups as a software engineer. They all have something in common. It seems like management at this company is just winging it. I find myself putting all my energy, both mental and emotional, into a project only to be disappointed by decisions made by management. I really feel like management at my current employer is disconnected from what is actually going on. They manage a project, but not the people. They also seem to lack any real vision. Direction is constantly changing and proper time is not given to engineer these changes correctly. This leads to mandated quick and dirty solutions that end up being maintained with great pain for long periods of time. All this leads to me feeling cynical about the work I'm doing. What I want to know is, how can I feel good about the work I'm doing if I don't have confidence in my management? How many of you are happy with your management? Why? Why not? What can I do about this? Thanks in advance for your insight." Considering that this seems to be a common problem in technology companies, and seeing as we have been producing software for basically half a century, do you think that managing software projects is a different beast than the management of anything else? How many of you have had this problem in your career and what did you do to adjust?
heh (Score:5, Insightful)
so, yes, somtimes they are crazy, and *you* need to decide if you want to be absorbed into the madness or retain your sanity. and the outcome aint always pretty. you got to decide what its worth.
This is f*ckin' LIFE (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, I just started a new job, and a co-worker, upon *my* realization of this sort of craziness, summed it up by saying "If it was any better, we all wouldn't have jobs."
Why only tech companies? (Score:4, Insightful)
During my short history on this planet, every single place I have worked seems to have this problem. Not just tech companies.
It seems to be human nature to not want to deal with the messy social part of management and handle only the relatively easy business part.
Just my 2 cents I guess.
Good managers are nice people (Score:4, Insightful)
Software development may be 50 years old... lots of things have changed and one could argue that the pace of change is only getting faster. What doesn't change is that development of any kind is a whole bunch of people individually developing themselves- the end result is (or isn't) some kind of product. Manager's that are technically-minded work best with software developers because developers are technically minded.
Seems obvious but has not been the norm as far as I can tell.
Work for a Good Cause (tm) (Score:5, Insightful)
I love my job. (Score:3, Insightful)
If you can't beat 'em... (Score:4, Insightful)
happine$$ (Score:4, Insightful)
Do I like my job? (Score:1, Insightful)
No, but that's life and that's what pays the bills. Boo Hoo You don't like your job at NASA... Suck it up and deal with it, or move on, because there sure as hell is someone else out there that will do your job, and probably for lesser money.
I don't mean to sound angry, but if you don't like your job quit. Do something else. Otherwise suck it up and do your best and be happy with your paycheck. Find outside interests, take pride in what you do outside work. Get a girlfriend, fuck your wife, whatever. Just don't complain to 1/2 a million people about it.
I'll bash you in the face.
Golf (Score:2, Insightful)
Work your way up to management and you too can spend your days on the golf course.
Work on an Open Source Project (Score:5, Insightful)
That seems to be why many professional programmers work on open source projects. You get to spread your technical wings without managers.
Coder management. (Score:2, Insightful)
Managers should provide the idea and what they want the produce to do. The can specify what the GUI should like like and how other UI parts may work. They should also manage the development team members and get what positions are needed (security, UI, scalability, general programming, etc). They can check up on the coders and make sure their progress is decent and try to get the dev team to work together in the best possible way.
Coders should manage how the code is structured and how things are implemented.
File formats, etc could be determined by either. Sometimes management wants their own proprietary format, while coders may have better suggestions which are easier to impliment and/or more efficient.
I find I work best when the pressure is low and management isn't trying to make all my decisions for me.
Management=Trial&Error (Score:3, Insightful)
It's like I overheard the other day: do something now and apologize for it later. Even if it was a joke (which it was), I feel it's a rather good way to describe the situation--not only where I work but all over the place in IT. It seems everyone's just a bit crazy to me, but hey, they pay us to play with computers. I'm still trying to figure that one out.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Leaders Wanted (Score:1, Insightful)
Wherever you go... (Score:3, Insightful)
I used to know a retired Army Airborne Lt. Col. The words he used to describe both the problem and the solution were, "Managers manage things. Leaders lead people".
This inspired me, a Sr. Network Admin, to pursue my MBA just so I could speak the language of business. Luckily I was able to skip the class where they performed the labotomies, so I think I managed to hold on to my grip on reality (relatively speaking, of course).
In short (too late), my degree has given me some credibility to implement change. The old saying, "Wherever you go, there you are", doesn't exactly apply...you aren't the problem. You will, unfortunately, find the problem wherever you go...unless you take strides to make change where you can and learn to live with the areas where you can't.
Probably not very helpful, huh? Is it at least practical?
In answer to your original question: Yes, I love my job...but only since I started speaking my mind, nicely, of course (and in my MBA voice), and helping decision makers identify the bobbles.
Regards...
Bigger Picture (Score:4, Insightful)
That being said, you're probably right that most managers are just winging it. I often have the same kind of feelings about management where I've worked, but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt that they're not as dumb as I think. Maybe they are.
Sigh. If only I'd known then. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not the rant you think.
When I was young, I looked down on politics, figured I didn't need to deal with it, etc.
By the time I finally started to understand it, most of my working life was gone.
The thing to know is that politics is more than a game: it is the essence of working with and through other people to get things done. You don't have to become Machiavelli and you don't have to stab backs. Learning what people -- even managers -- cherish, and understanding the real power subordinates have over their bosses will lead to a lot more "wins" and a lot more sensible decisions than doing the typical "I don't care about politics" schtick.
What's sad is that we don't have to be as good at it as the managers are, though some of us do have tremendous potential.
We just have to be smart enough to listen and get listened to.
Techies will never win them all, or even all of the ones we should. Nice to win some, though.
Shop for management (Score:5, Insightful)
So, before you take a job, go and meet the management. Even if it means taking a pay cut, my advice is to work for smart people, and enjoy your work.
If you don't have the luxury (I'm a computational biologist, so I do) of choosing your employer / PI (that's what a scientist's boss is called) / project manager / what have you, then, well, you can't expect to be happy at your job. Most people are in the position of taking whatever job they can get, and they're unhappy with what they end up with. So, if you're one of the few people with the luxury of choosing where to work, get your priorities straight and at least consider the competence (to say nothing of worthiness) of the prospective co-workers, in addition to the economics.
I'm happy at my job, by the way.
Re:Normal (Score:3, Insightful)
When those sort of people get ahold of a company, look out! Planned growth, planned direction, heck planning at all -- it all goes out the window, because that shit's just "boring."
It's a very exciting environment.
And almost assuredly doomed to failure!
Re:Work for a Good Cause (tm) (Score:5, Insightful)
This is probably the best advice ever.
"Non-profit" is not neccessarily a pre-requisite; you can find satisfaction at any job where you are working towards a defined goal. I don't mean Vision Statement-type goals ("Enhance shareholder value!"--"Yeah, I'm enhancing shareholder value by surfing for pr0n with one hand while the other is...")
I think this is part of the reason why people like to become contractors so much. You come in, you're handed a project with an end goal, and you drive towards that goal as fast as you can.
If your job is a never-ending series of Total Quality meetings; staff reorgs; or learning new (yet ironically byzanntine) procedures for requisitioning a new toner cartridge, you will tire quickly and grow cynical even faster.
This is why a mobile employment force is so powerful--you're free to find a job that satisfies you. Those jobs are almost never "get paid for doing nothing", because (most) humans desire to grow and learn. Satisfying jobs tend to be challenging, and the companies with those jobs tend to be good ones.
be a professional (Score:2, Insightful)
IMO, many complaints from designers are whiny bullshit (what's that noise? Could it be my Karma spilling away?...). Why would I say such a thing? Because most purely technical complaints ignore business reality, and ignore organizational concerns. If you don't like the way things are going - stop whining and get involved! Don't bitch, fix! Be persistant, make yourself heard, and, before you write off your management, actually listen to them. Just like you feel misunderstood, so do they. Most (yes - most!) managers are reasonable, overworked (just like you), and damn good developers in their own right. Before you write them off, try working with them.
Now, all that being said, there are some situations where there are real problems in management. If your honest, earnest attempts to fix and contribute don't work, apply your professional talents towards making some other company famous. Have the balls to move on.
In the end, any job is a balance between the company's needs and your own. Find a balance you can live with.
disconnect between groups (Score:4, Insightful)
1. mutual respect
2. communication
It's not about management, the design team, the tech team, the marketing team, etc. It's about each group and their ability to work with another group that has a slightly different mindset.
Okay, so I hated management at my last company. But I think management is just another group in the makeup of a company. Bottom line is, each group needs to UNDERSTAND what the other group does, needs to RESPECT what they do, and needs to COMMUNICATE their needs effectively.
It sounds like a relationship gone bad, and it often is... which is where problems arise like designers handing off design on the last day possible, management telling you that you have 1 day to do a 10 day project, and the tech team getting even by refusing and shooting down all proposals that they know they can't do.
All in all, I've seen it a dozen times. At my last company, I had the *privledge* of spending time to create a new project workflow. This workflow instead of having a linear project timeline, had a timeline that involved the majority of the groups working at the same time. This forced groups to collaborate... at which point it seemed to flow better (after some initial confusion). And when management tried to mix things up a bit or the client wanted changes, the whole TEAM could work on the problem instead of the problem being forced on ONE small group (ie tech).
Re:I gotta be honest... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:happine$$ (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean, if you're a hard-core UNIX admin, you're expected to have strong knowledge of at least one or two other areas (like Oracle or firewalls or NT or Notes or networking or development). You're also expected to have some basic knowledge of dozens and dozens of other sub-areas (languages, hardware, operating systems, applications, etc). Not necessarily enough knowledge to really *do* anything, but enough knowledge to be familiar with the high-level pros and cons.
Think about how much time and money you spend staying current in the IT profession. Think of all of the people that you know who don't work in IT (exempt any doctors, lawyers, accountants or self-employed people -- these professions are similar to IT in regards to the necessary knowledge base). How many of them have to regularly spend their personal time in order to stay up to date in their profession?
Most people don't have hundreds of pounds of professional reference books sitting on their shelves at home. Most people don't have to read two or three different magazines each month to stay current with what's going on in their profession. Most people don't think that "additional training" is one of the best perks that a company can offer.
Sure anyone can learn enough to get started in IT, but staying in IT is a whole different story.
Not all managers are fools. (Score:1, Insightful)
I LOVE my management team above me right now. They look at the short and long-term, they bide their time for the right opportunities and throw us all behind them and it pays off constantly.
They take responsibility for screwups, and work to make the team below them better at the same time. All in all, they're amazing. They deserve every penny they get paid and so do the rest of us.
How did we get to this point? Trial and error, lots of work, using our heads. Also that the management above my management makes things simple, they ask us to meet our numbers by any means necessary and leave our department to use our heads to figure out how.
I'm not saying we're invincible, I'm sure one of these days the company could go under, it happens. But right now we run a clean shop and almost everyone's happy.
These places do exist, but you generally have to use your own head and want to be part of a team instead of the cowboy (instead we all takes turns at being one).
Maybe it's that we're in Canada that helps this system, you be the judge.
I LOVE my job! (Score:2, Insightful)
I do love my job.
But I have learned to detach myself from the managers and the results that my work "should" produce.
I have programmed for over 13 years in a professional sense and come to realize that the work that I do, although I do very diligent work, much of what I program will never come to fruition or even be seen by more then me and my co-workers. I have lost sight of making a killer-app or even making an impact on any of the many industries that I have worked in. Most of my great work has been lost in miss-funded, under-funded projects, mismanaged projects, companies that go under before the product comes to market.... etc, etc.
I have not lost faith in my abilities by other's problems or misfortunes, I know that I can make a decent piece of code if needed, and meet deadlines, without sacrificing code quality, if needed, my work is still my own. Hell, toss off other's problems as their own and not yours, poor management is not a fault of the people below the managers, DUH!
Just work your ass off, like your job (or get another if you don't like programming) and in the meantime, do your own projects that you can at least have a REAL impact upon, and stop complaining about business, you can't change it (unless, of course you become...URG! a manager!)
heh.
Re:Do I like my job? (Score:3, Insightful)
ALL JOBS SUCK!
At the very best, your job will suck sometimes. At the very worst, your job will suck every minute of every day. When it sucks badly enough, you quit.
Why do you think that lottery winners don't say, "well, I'm going to donate my $32 million in prize winnings to the EFF, and keep working until I'm dead or have Alzheimer's"? Because working for other people is an inherently sucky proposition. You've given up the power to make certain decisions in return for a paycheck.
Sure, I'd love to work in some perfect Nerdvana, but it doesn't exist.
What is your real job? (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't matter what your day job is. You could be a waiter or a pr0nstar or a programmer in a cubicle. If you enjoy your night job more, then consider that your true job. After all, your "job" is nothing more than simply doing your part in society. If you consider free software to be more of a calling than your day job, then so be it. It is even possible that your free software project is better for society. The downside is that it may not be the job that is bringing in the money, but it is your job nonetheless. Think about it this way: if you had to choose between losing your job or losing your free software project (the latter is sort of impossible, so lets just say that it disappears in a puff of smoke), which would you choose? Which is more important?
So before you tell your friend that your job sucks, or tell your uncle at the family party that you work at a dead-end computer job, why don't you say you work on free software instead? It's a much more enjoyable job, isn't it? It also reflects what you truly want to do, and because of the impact it makes, is a much better candidate to represent your place in society.
Anyway, I got into this discussion with one of my friends the other day. I am a free software developer, but I have not finished college, and my day job sucks. He said something along the lines of: "What do your parents think about this? Are they angry you have not aspired to more? What greater plans do you have?" And to that I answer: "Greater plans? I'm doing exactly what I want to do _right now_. How can it get any better? Maybe I can improve my day job, but my night job is where the fun is."
-Justin
hmmm (Score:1, Insightful)
I have also worked at various government and commercial companies. It's the same everywhere. The worst problem seems to be lack of direction. I don't know how to fix it.
I am freaking sick and tired of all the "team training" BS that goes on. Management has had team training sessions at every single damn company I've worked at, usually they do it on some big "new wave" project. And the training is the same every time. Let me tell you, it doesn't do crap. It's the management that needs the training, not the peons. Man, that one thing pisses me off so much...
Differences (Score:3, Insightful)
The stereotypical software manager will want to use Windows, because that's all he knows. For some applications that's an appropriate choice, but for a great many is certainly is not. Where we work we build embedded realtime invasive medical diagnostic equipment. Management made the braindead decision to base all of our new products on a piece of medical workstation software developed at another division.
Another problem, whose source I haven't discovered, is the strange idea that you can create a quality software product in one or two years. Go look at any other industry and you'll see that it takes around five years to get a product from initial idea to the sales floor. Everyone in the automotive industry knows that new designs don't magically appear, but I've seen too many managers in software that think I can magically pull a feature out of my ass on a moment's notice.
These problems will go away, but I don't expect them to for another ten years at least. But there are companies that are on the ball. Some listen to their engineers. Some send their managers to software engineering classes. Some are in niches where the industry has settled down somewhat.
What part of the management is the problem (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Process management - there's no excuse for a problem here. If the manager(s) don't understand the software development cycle, it's bad news.
2) People management - this is very much a personality issue. Some people are great at personal interaction, keeping up team morale, recognized personnel problems before they happen, etc. Others aren't. Depending on the situation, it can range from heaven to hell, with all variations in between.
3) Product management - this is the one where you have to give the most leeway. Yes, direction will change, after all, you are trying to sell something, and you've got to provide what the customers want and to do so, you're either anticipating their needs in advance, or trying to interpret them. If #1 and #2 are solid, you can live with some uncertainty here.
All that said, someone who's truly horrible in any of the categories above can do a lot of damage. If you're lucky, you get someone who's excellent in one category and can get by in the other two. Mostly, however, you get people who are just muddling along in all three.
Start your own, consult, or make movies (Score:1, Insightful)
In my 8 years in silicon valley, I decided that about 50% of the people there were coasting through on their friends or connections and got money for a smile and a hand shake. Another 25% were non-technical, but really knew what was going on, and the other 25% were those of us who were doing the heavy lifting, so to speak. I was lucky here and there and worked for people in that capable 50% (with technical and non-technical, capable people) here and there, and it definitely makes a difference.
As for managing software projects, I submit (especially after seeing parts of Project Greenlight on HBO) that software (and to some extent, hardware) development and project management are not far from trying to make a movie. You have a difficult schedule, lots of things have to line up when they don't necessarily want to, sometimes not everyone is on the same page, the director has to deal with various personalities which all don't mesh well, and in the end an awful lot of movies flop miserably when they come out, possibly because these and other factors were not brought together correctly (make the script equal the spec and the marketing plan)... they rarely do point releases, though, while we do.
The impossible, but useful bridge is the so-called "working manager," where the person in charge of stuff actually sits down and codes, or at least builds code, while mired in other tasks, so that the process is understood from within, not without. I say impossible because people who want to "work" and manage and who do it well are difficult to find, and those that can do it have a short lifespan. I don't think the movie analogy carries over that far, but maybe it does.
So how would a software project run by James Cameron come out? Would a project run by M. Night Shyamalan be going along fine and suddenly freak everybody out at the end? Would George Lucas make action figures out of the developers?
Re:Sigh. If only I'd known then. (Score:2, Insightful)
Politics is just good common sense.
Imagine walking into a computer store with no idea of what you want or what the different technologies are. You walk up the salesman and say, "I want a good computer." You'll walk out paying twice as much as you need to, and probably not getting what you need, right?
Same goes for dealing with people. If you don't know what they want, what they value, and what you can get away with, you're likely to get screwed. I've seen perfectly intelligent techies blatantly insult their bosses (and bosses' boss) because they didn't understand who stood where on the issues. And other stupid mistakes just as bad.
And politics, irritating as it might be, is the way to not make stupid mistakes when dealing with people. To negotiate from a position of knowledge rather than a position of ignorance.
-Esme
Why let work define your life? (Score:3, Insightful)
"I find myself putting all my energy, both mental and emotional, into a project only to be disappointed by decisions made by management."
I have a little saying I like to use in meetings or with co-workers who are taking things too seriously: "we're not curing cancer here". (needless to say, I'm not working in cancer research). Work is work - it's something I do to pay my rent, keep food on the table, and support my other interests. If you find yourself putting all your emotional energy into work, you should seriously re-evaluate the priorities in your life. I am fortunate in that I generally like what I do, but I will not drain myself emotionally for any job - the sum of money required to turn me into an emotional wreck far exceeds the market's willingness to compensate me.
B glad U have a job (Score:2, Insightful)
If you're a man, you do what you gotta do to provide for your family.
Quit your bitching, suck it up, and try to make things better yourself instead of complaining like a little baby about stuff that doesn't even matter.
I got a philosophy about management . . . (Score:2, Insightful)
The "Bigger Picture" is they WANT you blind. (Score:2, Insightful)
Since they don't have to do it, they feel that things like knowing WTF you're supposed to be doing and how you're supposed to be doing it is not important. You don't need to know that.
Of course they then get pissed off that you couldn't read their minds afterwards.
But NEVER quit! NEVER! Even if they offer to let you or get really disagreeable at a meeting.
Quit and you're kissing your unemployment cheques goodbye. That's something they DON'T tell you while they're berating you. That's a lesson for experience. And a fuckin' bitter one at that.
Get nasty. Go Postal on their asses. Get fired for being a total prick but DON'T EFFIN' QUIT.
So many absurd generalizations, so little time. (Score:5, Insightful)
Libral Arts graduates are not supposed to manage people, nor do they have the proper education to do so.
Computer Science graduates are not supposed to manage people, nor do they have the proper education to do so.
History graduates are not supposed to manage people, nor do they have the proper education to do so.
These are ridiculous generalizations that have absolutely no bearing in the "real world". Check out the backgrounds of the great corporate leaders of the last half-century. Read "Good to Great" or another book that describes their qualities.
Where they all "commerce graduates"? Was there an engineer in there? An arts grad? How did that happen? They weren't "supposed" to be there?
You are taking a deterministic approach that says the degree you choose when you are seventeen determines if you ever have the capacity to lead. How absurd.
Re:Errr, not really. (Score:3, Insightful)
i think you really have to program for a while first, understand whats right/wrong in the management, prepare yourself, and only then go into management. merits of the MBA are debatable (although i am not denying the usefulness or anything like that)
and i definitely agree with many people who don't equate good programmers with good managers. i do believe, though, that if you were to sample the level of request from the programmers, then managers who used to program would come out on top.
Same position about 6mos ago (Score:1, Insightful)
I now am managing and not coding so at least I was in the pits and understand and try to convay this to the other managers. The biggest thing we have done, is create Core teams around our projects and there are members from Test, OPS, and devel so that everyone can discuss and plan new versions, bug fixes, etc. It helped to see all the views from the effected areas.
This really has helped because we were out of control and just waiting to burn up. If we didn't setup these Core Teams, the company would have probably bellied up by now. Software Development/Managing it is a beast, especially if you try to win customers by doing everything they ask. Things get dumped and new things arrive yesterday, it is just the nature and it sucks. You have to move and move quickly or you are done.
Anyway, it is tough. If you don't have some strong managers in other dept or groups, you should move on. Eventually, you are going to go nuts trying to do everything because you can't. There is way too much to think and take care of and if you try, more holes will surface.
Good luck.
Re:Do I like my job? (Score:1, Insightful)
So in short, if your solution to the problem is to just stick your head in the sand, suck it up, or quit. Fine. But this person is looking for solutions that he can apply in any job situation.
New Strategy: Extreme Management (XM) (Score:2, Insightful)
I read a Cutter article the other day that said something like the following:
>
> approaches. For example, it may be necessary
> to tell the business that IT cannot meet all of
> the commitments it has made, but it wants to
> meet the top three or four. If -- and this can
> be a big "if" -- the business will at least
> identify its top three or four needs, then IT
> must meet its commitments. As the first
> commitments are met, the next most important
> are addressed, and they too must be met. This
> is the only way to build a record of success
> that can anchor a better business-IT
> relationship
Interestingly, this is similar to the approach taken by XP in matching requirements to functionality over a fixed release cycle.
This observation has lead me to a new idea that I am tossing around which I am calling "Extreme Management".
XM Key Features:
- "Extreme(ly) Testing"
The patience of engineering staff is tested
time and time again as clueless techno-
philistine managers argue the toss over such
business-critical issues as:
- "Is my data interchange format XML?"
- "You should be using Sybase tables as a
persistent message store!"
- "That's easy - it's just a matter of
turning on replication."
- "Messaging! Rubbish, what's wrong with
FTP?"
- "You Aren't Going to Need It (YAGTNI-tm)"
Strategy? What strategy? We don't need no
stinkin' strategy!"
- "Continuous Reorganisation"
Bored? Have a meeting? Better still,
reorganise your team, group or even division!
It's easy if you follow these 4 simple steps:
Step 1: Create new, sexy acronyms for your
team, group or division
Step 2: Move people around, preferably
between buildings and floors
Step 3: Reduce available employee desk space,
particularly for support and
infrastructure staff (ie those with
the most kit)
Step 4: Watch that bonus figure climb!
So, get an XM programme working in your team today!
Re:Work for a Good Cause (tm) (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm working for a small web hosting company as a Unix network admin, 2 days a week, for $8/hr, while I go to school and work on my degree the other 3 days a week.
For a network admin, that sucks. However, I love my job. There are only 5 employees, including the owner, and he's the oldest, being 27. We're all in college. I go to work wearing jeans, sandals, and a doors shirt. I answer the phone, fix people's stupid stuff (how does a
Anyway, before i got lost, my point was working for a small company is the way to go, even if it's less money. The relationship you have with your peers and the lack of red tape is worth it in terms of saving your sanity. Trust me, i used to work for the man [bestbuy.com].
~z
It's not the managers. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Do I like my job? (Score:3, Insightful)
Only because you don't have the balls to make it exist. If you hate the hampster wheel, go start your own company doing consulting or something. You might make less money, but screw it. What's more important to you? Being happy or having expendable income to waste on gas-guzzling autos, bleeding-edge geek toys, and a two story suburban energy drain?
How much is the economy losing to bad management? (Score:4, Insightful)
But there are plenty more cases where management is bad. That's why there's such a rise in chain and franchise operations in retailing - there's such a shortage of people with real management skills at the local level that a cookie-cutter approximation of a solution can actually perform better on average than a solution based on intimate knowledge of a particular market - the franchise operation retains the cookie-cutter while cutting down on peer-level conflicts between managers. If management talent were thick on the ground local ownership would do best, followed by larger organizations with good internal communications and local autonomy, and franchises would be dead last.
Bad management is also rife in non-profits and educational settings - it's not just the profit motive that brings it out.
Is there an "as above, so below" aspect to it? Are so many people bad managers of other people because they are not doing so well at "managing" themselves? In my experience, the best managers are the least neurotic; and we're in a society, as Freud noted, in which most everyone is neurotic (although there's a shift to borderline disorder since his time). Can our culture increase the numbers of capable managers without somehow finding a way to increase the incidence of psychological roundedness that's required to be a capable person, period?
And would shifting the culture out of the prevalence of neurotic incapability threaten social systems which somewhat depend on neurosis as a point-of-leverage for social control?
____
Rubbish .... (Score:5, Insightful)
Typical of a commerce student to write screenful after screenful of text without getting to the point!
Let's put it simply: The best manager is someone who understands people, who understands the business, and who understands what happens in the business.
That's it - no other description or explanation required.
Now for the record
Worst, having read all these wonderful case studies, these commerce grads think they know how to handle tech people and just come across as these pompous arrogant know-it-alls
Highly skilled employees... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is f*ckin' LIFE (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What is your real job? (Score:3, Insightful)
The real bitch is when you find yourself re-implementing the same generally-useful routines you did at home for work. Then you're like, "if I ever *did* actually release project X, would company Y sue me because some of the code looks superficially the same?"
CompUSA does NOT want skilled computer people (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, the last time I checked, CompUSA payed about as much as the fast food places.
Re:Ex-programmers make the best managers (Score:1, Insightful)
Welcome to (scary) reality (Score:2, Insightful)
It's scary. Your government is winging it. Your doctor is winging it. The CIA, FBI, FDA, FCC, the Supreme Court, the Russian Government, Al-Qaeda, they're all winging it. Some a little less then others, but don't kid yourself; how often does the Supreme Court decide based largely on logic, versus based largely on their gut feelings (a.k.a. "political philosophy")?
Your managers, being human, are winging it. They have no more bandwidth then you in life. You can barely keep up with your projects and the industry. They have their own problems, and they aren't keeping up with your projects or the state of your industry.
Everybody's winging that. Carry that around with you. I wish everybody realized that; the world would be somewhat safer if everybody acted with this knowlege.
(Boy, it's scary. Really scary. But there's no compelling evidence to the contrary, only isolated counter examples.)
This does not mean that you should have zero confidence, but I would say low levels of confidence are in order. (Boy, I hope my future employer(s) don't see this, or if they do, I hope they understand what I'm saying here.)
You can't fight this, so don't. Roll with it. Don't commit your soul to your job. You must cultivate the ability to detach from your job, so if one VP's decision wipes out your last six years of coding, try not to be too upset.
Like all good advice about managing one's inner self, this is impossible to apply fully, and I'll be the last to claim I have. But like all good advice, at least trying helps more then not trying at all.
This is one of the many reasons I hobby program. Nobody can do that to me, except myself.
There's no hokey-pokey at work (Score:5, Insightful)
I was in your position about nine months ago. I had worked at a university for about 10 years, in IT. Dilbert applies there as much as it does anywhere. I was paid relatively well, but it wasn't enough to make up for the amazingly shallow human drama that our management was hellbent on creating. I felt that my soul was being siphoned out of my existence, one tedious day at a time.
After spending way too much time (years) pondering what to do, I quit. I gave them a generous notice, then left. I don't miss it and I feel like a relevant human being again.
Now that I've had time to reflect, I've come to believe that:
Today's work place, probably any work place actually, it's like playing on your grade school class' PE kickball team. You don't have a team of the best players; you have a team with every player of every skill level and interest. What's the point of being concerned about the quality of your work when you're just one of a few people who could give a shit? Now, if you're playing on a team/working in a job where everyone wants to do their personal best, solving problems and kicking ass, it would be different (kind of like Star Trek...).
You asked how can you feel good about your work when you don't have confidence in management? That's the wrong question. How you feel about your work doesn't hinge on what you think of management? They're probably not qualified to really judge your work anyway. Your management is as smart as they're ever going to be. They're doing the best that they can. It may not be the best possible job; it probably isn't what you would do, if you were the manager. But that's not the point of the exercise. You're not supposed to do the best work that you're capable of; nor are you supposed to expect that management wants you to do this! Rarely is one rewarded for being smart or clever. Getting from point A to point B in the shortest or most efficient way? Not relevant.
You'll have a hell of a time changing the people in your work place. It's a lot easier to change yourself. If you think your management is clueless, they probably are. If it is important to you that you work with people who aren't clueless and actually share your values about work, you'll probably have to bail on this job eventually and seek out an employer who better fits your idea of reality. Or, you can change your own point of view about work. Yield and conquer. Let work be the place that supplies you with cash so that you can live life with people who actually care about the things that you do. It's definitely easier to find a group of people who'll share your passion about something outside of work than within it. Especially IT work.
I've learned that the best use for employment is as a spigot for cash to fuel a stylish, mysterious, and dangerous life. Fill a position, show up, cash the paycheck. Use the cash to go out and build a fulfilling life. Don't look for meaning or personal fulfillment at the work place. It's not there to be found.
I quit my soul-reaping IT job to write my own software, on my own terms. That makes me happy, but hasn't made me rich yet. I also started playing music and discovered a community of people that I really enjoy spending time, some of whom also equally share my passion. Now that's cool and fulfilling. That's the hokey-pokey. You probably won't find the hokey-pokey in the workplace. Work is work and life is something different. If I ever go back to employee situation again, especially in IT, I'm going to keep this foremost in mind.
Do the best work that the situation permits. You'll not be able to do any better and wasting cycles worrying about it is futile. It may not be spiritually satisfying, but you'll earn the same pay in any case. When the day's over, go off and live your real life.
Re:Do I like my job? (Score:5, Insightful)
What is it that you would do all day, in a perfect world?
I am quite happy with the work that I do (at the moment, seasonal work with the Forest Sevice as an archaeologist, when I get my Masters, hopefully I can get a full time position). I get paid to do what I would willingly do for free, or even pay to do. I love archaeology. I love the fresh air and miles of arch survey. I enjoy the little bit of excavation that I have the opportunity to partake in. I adore the people I have worked for. I take great pleasure in explaining why archaeology and historic preservation are important and dealing with the public.
Your claim that all jobs suck is a terrible generalization in the highest order. Perhaps the problem lies not in the job bering terrible, but in your ability to choose the field that you work in. I am honestly sorry that you do not enjoy the work that you have chosen to do. My feeling is that one should always to work that they enjoy. If the work is not pleasing to a person, then find something else to do and let some one who wants to do it, do it.
On the other hand, if you are in it for the money, or the power, or the reputation alone, then you have no right to complain. You want huge amounts of money? Fine, you are going to have to do something you don't like to sate your greed. Power? Again, you are going to have to do unpleasant things, or stop you quest for power. If your goal is simply to take pleasure in life, find a job that you actually like doing, no matter the pay (almost any professional field will pay a living wage, at the very least), then there is something that you can do in the world that will fufill those needs.
We live in a world of our own making. We have power over our actions and our own ability to take pleasure in anything that is put before us. Ultimatly, it is your choice to dislike where you work. However, you also have the ability to change that environment. You, much like the fox failing in his attempts to reach the sweet fruit of the grapes on a distant vine, complain without trying alternatives. You waste your time, and the time of all that have to hear your selfish complaining.
Unless you are willing to take responsibilty for you world, shut up and sit down.
Re:Work for a Good Cause (tm) (Score:2, Insightful)
I work for a small (only 4 people where 1 is doing the administration) company in Sweden designing ASICs. As this is my first employment I cannot say from experience that it is better or worse than working in a larger company, all I can say is that I love working here except for the salary, I could get like twice at a "normal" company, but then I wouldn't do the fun things I do now.
Another good thing about working in a smaller company is that you get the whole picture how a company works. Everything from administration to sales. This is very rewarding as you feel you have more control over your work situation. The bad thing about it is that you also know when there are bad times (as it is now).
Re:Simple solution, work for yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
After I resigned as a resource manager for a large Telco, I started up my own online communications company (back in the days when 2400bps modems were the standard and 9600 was truly exotic).
I was too early -- it was only 1989 and email wasn't even a feature on local area networks, let alone nation-wide ones.
However, I sold that company and started up a software venture that developed some very successful email/fax bridging software. I also sold that company as well when it started to get so big that I was entering "management drift"
About that time the Net really started to take off (1995) so I started up several online ventures including a couple of news sites 7am.com [7am.com] and Aardvark [aardvark.co.nz].
For several years I ran 7am.com with the aid of just one US-based reporter which meant that I had to be "on call" 24/7 for 365 days of the year. That was really hard.
Making it worse was the fact that I live in a timezone that is up to 14 hours ahead of the USA which meant that I had to work from 10pm through to about 5pm local-time -- snatching just four or five hours a day in the late afternoon/early-evening.
Thanks to the efficiencies of being a small operation (and some smart marketing) I built 7am.com up into a syndicated news service that provided news headlines to over 200,000 websites by way of its Java newsticker which was loaded about a million times a day (not bad for a 1.5 person operation).
I eventually sold 66% of that business to some investors because it needed to grow and, once again, I didn't want to drift into a management role. Unfortunately the investors had no clue about where the value was and, in my opinion, really stuffed things up.
With the money I made from selling part of my shareholding, I started building jet engines (yeah, I'm the guy with the jet-powered gokart that featured on slashdot a while back).
Now I'm working 14/7 trying to keep up with the orders (a little accident a while back didn't help at all) and am in the process of organising a number of licensing deals so that I can get back to R&D rather than production work. The obvious alternative was to employ people to do what I do now and move myself into a managerial role (no, that ain't going to happen!).
You want tips about being self-employed?
1. Make sure you like what you're doing.
It's really easy to put in the hours and produce good quality work if you're enjoying yourself.
If you're not enjoying yourself than it can be awfully hard to roll out of bed and you'll find yourself looking for excuses not to work -- which means you'll probably piss people off and won't make any money.
2. Get an expert to do your taxes.
I have fought with the taxman for years -- even went to court over a tax issue and won. Unfortunately, you can't beat the system and as we left the court-room, one of the people from the tax office said "we'll get you" -- and they kept the pressure on right up until I got an professional to file my taxes for me.
Besides which -- I find all that paperwork to be really boring -- and therefore it's the kind of thing which you're tempted to leave to the last moment -- not good.
3. Don't underestimate how much money you'll need.
If possible, ease yourself into self-employment. It's much easier if you can work on your own stuff evenings and weekends until you're making more (tax-paid) money from it than you get from your day-job. Then you can dump the day-job, safe in the knowledge that you're not going to be living off your savings.
And remember, billing someone isn't the same as banking the money. Some companies will try to delay paying you for as long as they can -- and that can really screw you up if you don't have money in the bank to tide you over.
4. Get some good business advice.
You might be the best programmer in the world - but that don't mean squat unless you've got a plan. Spend a few bucks to get some quality business advice. There are people out there who will take you through all the steps -- right from working out exactly what it is you'll be offering customers through to the details of incorporation.
You need to stay in touch with these people and get a regular checkup to make sure that you're sticking to your business plan.
5. Keep your overheads down.
I've been working from home ever since I went out on my own -- and it's great.
Not having to suffer a long commute every day means that I'm already at least a couple of hours ahead of those who have to travel to their office and back. I also save money on gas, wear and tear, parking and the like.
Remember -- the days of dot-com excesses are long gone. Unless you can find someone to bankroll you with millions of dollars in venture capital, the money you'll be spending is probably your own.
However, while on the subject of working from home, it really pays to set yourself up an office in a separate room if you can. This provides a virtual border between work and play.
If you set yourself up in the living room or your bedroom you'll be sitting right next to temptation such as the TV, your bed and other stuff which sometimes looks a lot more attractive than a subtle bug lurking in a piece of code you've already been pawing over for hours.
Hey, I could write a book on this stuff -- hmmm, maybe that could be my next project ;-)
my job (Score:2, Insightful)
Common interests? (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is, that's not really what makes a good manager. A good manager is someone who motivates you, listens to you, fights for you, and is occasionally willing to tell you to go get stuffed. Management isn't just making your work day more fun, it's hopefully about making the company a little bit better.
Probably the toughest thing a manager has to do is to kill ideas and projects. Especially ones that they find interesting. How many of us will willingly stop work on something that we are enjoying because it won't turn out how we originally planned?
So, yeah, it's great to have a boss who understands you and even understands Dilbert. But in the end, that boss also has to be willing to go out there and fight for the department and the company and make the tough decisions.
Re:Ex-programmers make the best managers (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, I'm no great code guru - but I worked as a programmer fo about 6 years before migrating into a lead programmer position, I now run my own company developing web based distributed applications. I run a small team, and still do a bit of coding - though I tend to just root about in whats been written to learn new techniques and add value (in roughly equal amounts - when I start learning more than I'm teling I think I'll probably stop pretending I'm playing a significant coding role and just get out my newtons cradle).
The big risk is that you judge everyone by your own standards and over / under manage things on that basis. I've had people who have been a LOT faster and better than me who have told me 3 months in that they are bored titless.
Equally, I've had guys say they feel swamped. At that point I juggle things and we play with hours, tasking, etc... to try and balance things up.
But we are small. Being small I can do anything I like. I'm less focused on profit, at least for the next couple of years, than I am on reputation building. I'd rather have 12 guys working 30 hours a week and coming in buzzing to get things done, than 8 doing 60 hours a week feeling like shit.
TIPS
These things work for us.
Pay the sods! We pay about 20% above market rate. Always have done, I think we always will. Why? I haven't used an agency to find someone yet - every one of my guys tells EVERYONE they know when a job is on the go. They don't want to work with losers, so they pre vet them for me. I save 20-30% of year 1 by avoiding the agency - I share this with the coder, which completes the cycle.
We have a kick out time on Fridays of 3:30pm which is a HUGE success. People can head for the pub, can go home, can just sit outside watching the chicks from the office across the road on their smoke breaks, anything but sit playing Quake or reading
Homework. We don't have an official homeworking policy, but we buy ADSL for everyone so that if they want to work from home they can. We discourage evening / weekend work, but are happy if people wake up and think - 'might work at home today'.
Deadlines. We work to a weekly deadline round. This has its flaws, but on the whole everyone is pretty cool with it. Longer and you run the risk of getting lost, shorter just puts strain on things.
Let 'em get on with it! Simple as that.
Don't make decisions in isolation. As the boss, I have to steer the company. I hire people I think will help me get there. If I can't involve them in the decision making they are no use to me - so I get rid of them. I need to be able to raise ANY issue with the WHOLE TEAM and expect a constructive conversation.
Open up. The business plan sits on the magazine rack. Anyone can open it up and read it. They see what the code team as a whole gets paid, they see what the management team gets paid. They see how much the water cooler and the coffee machine are costing. They see how much kit costs, insurance, how much profit was generated last year (none
God - thats long - I'll shaddap!
Re:I gotta be honest... (Score:2, Insightful)
That's middle management for you (Score:3, Insightful)
Leave. Become a consultant and read Dilbert.
Re:Ex-programmers make the best managers (Score:5, Insightful)
Guess what? It's all bulls*it.
Management in IT is not the same as managing an assembly line. In IT to accomplish something you need the cooperation of the developers/system admnistrators/designers/testers. Managing by decree will get you non/bad-working programs, long delays, high turnovers, no documentation and all this in an environment were there is no standard measure for productivity.
To manage IT development you need to manage the developers.
If the developers:
- Are tired
- Are demoralized
- Don't trust you
no ammount of project planning, coercion or shouting will make projects finish according to requirements and inside the deadline.
Managing in IT mostly boils down to personality and people skills, and that can be found both in people with a technical background and people with a management background.
It's about me, not some company or manager (Score:2, Insightful)
Is this fun?
How does this contribute to my resume?
What is the difference between what I am being paid currently and what I am worth/could get elsewhere?
No company has or ever will look out for my personal interests as well as I can. There is no job security, in fact there never was such. In the long run only your own professionalism and competence really counts
These three factors juggle - If it's not fun, then money becomes more important and comes up in priority. If it is fun and contributing to a long term future (is adding to the resume in impressive ways) then money becomes third as in the list. Stupid mindless tasks demand more money and more fun either in the tasks themselves or somewhere else.
Also part of what I will put up with is what other possibilities exist. So far I have found another job first before resigning, I always keep my resume up to date, and I think looking to see what you are really worth and who will really hire you is vital to managing your profession - makes negotiating for a real market valued increase much easier when you do not feel trapped - plus interviewing is its own skill and worth keeping on top of anyway. If you are really unhappy (i.e., it's not fun) go see what else is out there, then decide whether or not it is worth putting up with (resume?, money?) You may have to stay where you are and try to bring up two of the three factors without changing jobs.
I created my current job, basically network guru at an engineering company. I work on the fun, hard interesting projects, then turn over the implementation and day to day operations. Right now the priorities align as above, it is FUN, it is contributing rapidly to a cutting edge resume, and I am paid well. I still look at other jobs and postings, but only as a matter of principle right now.
I also have the occasional nightmare where I dream I came into work and was locked out... Again, the only true assurance of any security is your personal competence and value
Every once in a while you really have to be able to look up and wonder, "And they pay me to do this?", and have that be a good thing, 'cause you would probably do it for fun and the challenge anyway.
Re:Work for a Good Cause (tm) (Score:3, Insightful)
Eventually you will want to work for a larger organisation, just to work on the larger more complex projects.
Every single work environment has its ups and downs. You always go away from every situation having learnt something - especially on how to handle difficult/unreasonable people.
In a larger project, you will, hopefully, gain some insigts as to what you would do differently if you were the project manager/systems architect (in management) or a senior technical leader.
The most important thing I have learnt is recognise the warning signals of when I am being difficult or unreasonable.
Re:Sigh. If only I'd known then. (Score:2, Insightful)
1: Never work for a non-technical manager.
Rather: never work for a manager who doesn't know that your tech abilities are more up to date than his.
3: Make sure (s)he does at least some of the software.
No no no! A manager does not have to do software. In fact, it's almost better if he doesn't do it. He needs to trust you and your estimates, he needs to spend his time talking to the customer with your estimates in hand, educate the customer with respect to the risks, and manage the expectations when the customer decides that other aspects than the technical ones have a higher priority.
4: Make sure (s)he has a spine, and is capable of forming relationships with other human beings.
This one is very important. He needs to work on a level of mutual respect with the customer. Sure, try and be friendly, but when he stoops to kissing ass, respect will be lost and the customer will not accept any negative reports, estimates or risk analysis.
Re:Programmers can be managers from hell. (Score:3, Insightful)
Social skills for programmers (Score:3, Insightful)
Not sure I agree with that one. While the l337 hax0r crowd might have poor social skills and be very proud of what they can achieve single-handed, real projects are rarely the domain of a single person any more. I'd rather have a team of five competent programmers with good interpersonal skills than a team of five top hackers who didn't speak to each other, and it's a very easy decision to make.
Damn, that's scary... (Score:4, Insightful)
I thing the major reason tech companies are like this is the environment they "grew up" in. Consider:
Most tech companies started in the 1960's to 1980's. While there were some downturns during this time, the overall pattern was growth growth growth. So, no matter how incompetent the company management, many companies survived just because the environment wouldn't let them fail.
Now, your typical manager will feel that all successes were due to his decisions (and, by the way, so will the average tech, or indeed the average human). So, consider a company that is still around today - the manager will feel that he must be doing something right.
Now, consider the rate of change in the tech field. It is almost impossible to have any foresight in this biz without a GREAT DEAL of technical knowledge. Being able to see the 3-5 years down the road to be able to make good plans is just about beyond the average manager. Instead, they focus on making plans 6-12 months down the road.
When times are good, this is enough.
Times are less than good now.
So, companies that have been able to survive are starting to die off. The managers are frantic - get me something NOW, OR ELSE!
It's like animals - when times are good, even the sick, lame and stupid can survive, can get enough to eat and avoid being eaten in turn.
Then the drought hits. The animals ALL get frantic about finding food.
Wait until after the drought, then look for the survivors that are healthy. Work for them.
Re:Shop for management (Score:3, Insightful)
5 years ago, I was working for a consulting company - the hours sucked (if you were at the office less than 55-60 hours a week, you were a slacker - mind you, we were salaried, but billing by the hour), and management were assholes
We parted company, and I came to my current job. I took a cut in pay, and the office space isn't as nice, I'm happier here than I've been in 10 years (I got forced out of defense electronics by the cuts of the late 80s/early 90s). It took 3 years for my pay to get back to where it was. Most weeks I put in 40-45 hours, but there are weeks that go 80 hours. The thing is, when those 80 hour weeks occur, there is a reason - a REAL reason, management doesn't even have to ask, we KNOW ( I support the News division of a major network - when it's election time, or 9/11 occurs, we work LONG hours, but I think even the readers here can understand why). Otherwise, management lets us do our jobs
So yeah, I signed "Mostly Happy" - heck, it's not perfect (I can't get one of the admins to fix an incorrect DNS entry for 3 weeks now, and it's holding up a rollout, and I could use a new chair), but no job is. Thing is, I like what I'm doing, and the work has a use
Re:Work for a Good Cause (tm) (Score:1, Insightful)
I recently worked for a small company (~30 total employees, ~20 in my office). Like your experience, it was very relaxing to be able to come in wearing shorts and a T-shirt in the summer, not having a tightly fixed schedule, etc.
The trade off, obviously, is stability. With a month's notice or so, the people in my office (NY) were told that it was closing and we could move to the other office (Boston). That's more notice and opportunity than a lot of startup employees have when things go bad, I know.
I've also worked for large companies with bureaucracies of a jurassic scale, where it seemed like having a tie was more important than the actual work you did.
My point? I guess it's that there's plusses and minuses for every kind of environment.
Clarity of Vision is critical... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Welcome to the real world (Score:2, Insightful)
I was "there". 18 years in the biz - 13 different jobs. The last one that I had was the "ONE". Believe it or not, it was a bank. Holy shit was it a cool place to work. The bosses were all past techies and they really knew how to mix fun and hard work. They would have no problems funding for the "good" equipment when it was needed. And they would let us play around with the spare servers and such stuff. They really made it a very enjoyable place to work.
We would bust our asses over a weekend to get a big project finished up and then after everything was rolling as it should be - the BIG boss would come back to the networking area on Wednesday morning around 11AM and would tell us that there was Beer and a BBQ going on out back for us. The whole data center would come outside and drink a few beers and eat hamburgers/hot dogs etc... AND THEN we would play softball or volleyball all afternoon. And the BIG boss would be right there with us.
I worked at that place for 2 1/2 years - and I could CRY (and I really mean that) - because they got bought out by a bigger bank who had their operations setup much like IBM - 15 managers and 8 people working for them, etc... I just couldn't take it - even tho they were going to "let" me keep my job.
I thought that I found another "right" place with this job - but in all reality I took about 8 steps back because of the way that it is turning out. The asswh^H^H^H err people that I work for here is following the straight and narrow. ie very narrow.
Don't give up hope - and DONT give up. I fight with these people EVERYDAY to try and make things right. But I don't let it get to me much --- I will split this place as soon as I find the next "good thing".
Duke
Insulate developers from crazy customers (Score:2, Insightful)
But it's the customer demands that get in the way. We have years of metrics to back up our productivity. Yet, the customer decides "we don't like those numbers, make your lines of code estimate smaller."
So what does one do? You document your original estimate, say "fine, we'll try for this new estimate" and when you fail to meet it you are already 80% done (no sense in cancelling) and you are, oddly enough, on track with your original estimate. Funny how that works!
Can your management can handle a shizophrenic customer who's needs change on a whim? Bad management will propagate the insanity down to the developers. Good management will bear (bare? Bayer?) the stress themselves and insulate the developer. That is the mark of good management.
And yes, my manager is da bomb!
You have blinders on (Score:1, Insightful)
The bottom line is that business decisions drive the business, not programing decisions.
Having moved from grunt into middle (yuk!) management, I am beginning to see these things. What looks like stupid or misguided upper management decisions are usually due to some constraints you don't know about and should not know about for many different reasons.
/g
The real world isn't always perfect (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Your real "job" is to feed, clothe, and shelter yourself and your family the best way you can. This is most often done by working for a company.
2. Your real "job" at the company is to do whatever it takes to maintain the short and long term growth and profitability of the organization. Sometimes this means hacking together some crap to close a deal which will make enough money to keep you and your coworkers employed a bit longer.
3. Your real "job" as a programmer is to put together the absolute best product you can given the constraints of time and money. Don't assume you understand all of the constraints, or the implications of the constraints.
Finally, while you are doing the best job you can, it is in your and the company's best interests to always try and make your manager aware of the downsides of his decisions in a polite and intelligent way.
Re:Job Board Sites are dead (Score:3, Insightful)
It's become obvious to me that all that doesn't matter. I never got a job from Monster listings, after five months of job searching. Not even an e-mail response acknowledging my application. I think that their Monster listing generates thousands of e-mails per day in spam, so they probably throw them through some sort of program that picks 1 random message out of a 1000, and if it turns out to be a real application, it's probably someone unqualified. Or perhaps it's just an HR department's way to prove to a company that they are making an attempt to hire skilled people fairly ("look, we're on Monster. so don't accuse us of only hiring local people without skills").
I've also noticed that unless you have a lifetime of experience at one specific skill, you're not worth anything. It's funny, but I once saw a job listing that required *10* years of Java experience. But of course, I'm only an amateur programmer who has a clue, rather than a clueless professional programmer atrophied in a certain language.
Oh well, I like my current job, even it it's not techy. And I'm damn happy to have one at all.
Re:Anyone else find it funny... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Job Board Sites are dead (Score:2, Insightful)
Talk about the shell script you slapped together to make two disparate systems work together.
Tell about the dialup firewall you built for a little podunk company that let them stop fighting over the dialup line.
If you got fired, explain why. If the reasons make you a bad fit for them, you need to stop wasting both their time and yours. Sometimes, the reason you got fired may make you more attractive. The two firings i mention were for
1) being too technical, and
2)not considering the political implications of technical facts.
Now I get to work for a company that needs and respects that technical expertise and wants to know the truth, whatever it is. Put me down in the "Likes his job" category.
Re:Anyone else find it funny... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's funny if it's not you that's at the receiving end of bad management.
The problem is that most tech types quickly learn that good management is a very hard job.
I'm great with computers, but I know that I suck when it comes to dealing with people effectively. Generally, I see that very few good technical people are also good managers of people and projects, requiring certain kinds of interpersonal skills and organizational skills that programmers lack all too often.
That said, there's nothings that prevents would-be managers from trying to fake it. I'd say about 85% of managers are less competent than I'd like to see. Also, really good managers are like gold. If it is at all possible for you to work for one of these, then do it.
Paradox? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, basically that's true, but if this were easy to do, everybody would be doing it. Companies don't deliberately make themselves inefficient. As a few posts have reminded us, management is not a precise science. Training can help but only to a certain extent (and the best training is probably running a Boy Scout troop rather than going to B-school). It's hard to be a good manager, hard to measure management performance, hard to balance the competing priorities that most managers face, and hard not to wind up shooting yourself in the foot.
Which is not to excuse stupidity nor to discourage you from ridiculing morons; but just remember that if YOU were doing that job, you'd probably screw it up just as much, and maybe more.
Re:Anyone else find it funny... (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, one of the best managers I ever had was "businessy." She had almost no computer knowledge whatsoever, aside from the ability to use e-mail and office applications. But here's the difference: She KNEW she was lacking in that area and relied on the opinions of her employees. When one of us told her that something couldn't be accomplished as the company wanted it, she took the time to ask questions and explore where the problem was. Then she would help us to consider ways of dealing with or eliminating the problem. Sometimes, that worked. When it didn't, she would tell the VP the truth -- it couldn't be done in the time requested. Up until that time, I always griped about how stupid managers were. She really opened my eyes.
The key learning is: Know thine own limits. You'll be much more successful in anything you do as long as you know your weaknesses.
Re:Question on Job Experience (Score:2, Insightful)
Personal Experience / A new angle to look at it (Score:2, Insightful)
Most companies are large enough that it is often difficult to communicate/think of all of the problems that will come up in a project. Plans change, as does the market in field, and this requires flexibility. Unfortunately companies are run by profits. If they don't make the profits, they can't put food on your table.
Perhaps looking at it from your manager's/supervisor's point of view can help you to understand what is going on and therefore make you "happier". Mentioned above, getting to know your manager/supervisor outside of the work place, also helps you to gain perspective on their personal goals, failures, and successes of that individual. This may explain defensive attitudes, or sudden changes.
Certainly, this is not a blanket disclaimer for all poor management decisions. But I'd like to believe that most people don't try to do their jobs poorly.
*Lurk Mode = ON*
I like my job despite management... (Score:2, Insightful)
The biggest issue people seemed to have was about management breathing down their necks and questioning their every move. Interestingly enough, the biggest complaints came from the people who have screwed up the most recently. They didn't seem to grasp the concept that if you and your work are consistently reliable, management leaves you alone more.
At least our managers are techies and understand what it is that we're doing out in the field. Of course, that means that they know enough to be dangerous.
I did Project Management last week (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the key things is this: there is always a trade-off between cost, time and functionality (including quality). Furthermore in most cases it is better to be 50% over budget or missing 50% of your functionality than 10% over schedule. This varies according to situation of course, and there are plenty of counter-examples (e.g. air traffic control). But most project managers know that the success of their project rests in getting it in on time regardless of cost and quality.
And they are right.
If you miss a market window your potential market share starts to drop exponentially as competitors take the lead. But of course all your competitors know that too, and are desperately trying to hit the market window defined by your launch date.
So when the PM comes down and tells you to get it shipped by Friday no matter how buggy it is, its not because he doesn't know his business, its because he does.
Paul.
Im Lucky (Score:2, Insightful)
In the end, I went with the Fortune 10 job and am I ever glad I did! I consider myself lucky that I work for stable company and still have a home life. They let me work one day a week from home, which allows me to spend the day with my daughter.
Some people thing that big corporations are evil, but I find them to be very stable with deep pockets. Plus, if you do a good job, exhibit a professional manner and act normal [you be surprised how many people I seen who got turned down for a job because we thought they were a little flakey] you'll excel.
Re:I gotta be honest... (Score:3, Insightful)
Absolutely right. I dropped out of college, got a sysadmin job, and now make more money in a year than my jobless college graduate friends spent going to college.
A bit of advice to anyone working on any computer-related degree in school; spend time in that lab doing something other than class work. Volunteer to help out the administrators. Run your own web/ftp/mailservers. If you program well, join an open source effort, and help out with the management as well as the coding. Whatever you do, don't show up at an interview with your final project from some programming class as a crowning achievement.
Re:Anyone else find it funny... (Score:1, Insightful)
Many people who go into management do not know how to manage. Just like many people who learn programming do not know how to program. In other words: So long as things fit within the "BOX" of what they know - they can handle it. But when the "BOX" falls apart or tears or gets a hole in it - they can not deal with it. They don't know how to "tape it up" or "glue it back together" to make it work again.
A lot of this comes from experience. Theory is great but reality/experience is better. It is VERY true that you learn from your mistakes. Just hope those mistakes don't kill someone.
So, to tie this back in - the person you knew had enough experience to know she had to gather her information together in order to present alternatives to her superiors or to try to work something out between her subordinates which would make everyone happy. But it was because she was experienced at this and not because she knew her limits.
She also was willing to think, have an active mind instead of a passive one, was willing to take charge of the situation as well as to accept the consequences for her actions. It sounds like she was an active personality who didn't try to perform unthink or any of the other 1984 virtues which it seems more and more people are subscribing to these days. (But those are just my personal feelings based upon what you originally posted.)
Later.
Bad Managers (Score:2, Insightful)
First, they must handle all of the administrative/business stuff. This means doing things like schedules, purchasing, calculating ROI, budgets, etc. From talking to people that have gotten their MBA's, this is the sort of thing that they learn about in their "management" classes. Most managers that have gone through some sort of formal management training seem to have this part of the job down pat.
The second aspect of managing is motivating and leading the people who work for you. This doesn't seem to be taught in any sort of formal way (note that MBA stands for Masters of Business ADMINISTRATION, not Business Leadership). It seems that most managers fail at this aspect of the job, and failing seems to be at the heart of most complaints that we technical people have about our managers. Most of the complaints on this topic are the result of managers who either don't know how to motivate their techies, or who do things that actually DE-motivate their techies.
Apparently, this is a subject that isn't taught in those management classes.
Steven McConnell's book _Rapid Development_ devotes several chapters to the subject of motivating developers. He makes the case that developer motivation is the number one most important factor in determining whether or not a project succeeds. He then goes on to discuss ways in which developers can be motivated, and ways in which they can be de-motivated.
One of the the more interesting things that he mentions is that surveys have shown that managers and developers are motivated by different things. He suggests that this may be one of the reasons why there is often a disconnected between managers and developers. For example, while managers are often motivated by "rah-rah" speeches, technical people are put off by these sorts of things because they seem phony. On the other hand, developers are often motivated by working on interesting projects where there is the possibility for growth, while managers are less concerned with this sort of thing. The trick is to motivating developers is understand what motivates them, and then to deliver.
Also, he mentions that developers are often motivated by the work itself, meaning they want to feel "good" about the work that they are doing. Developers derive a lot of satisfaction from a job well done. However, managers often undermine this by demanding that developers cut corners, that they do not get to use the latest tools and techniques, that they do not have any control over the techical decisions, etc. There is nothing more de-motivating than when you do not feel good about the work that you are doing. Nobody ever felt a sense of accomplishment over a mass of spaghetti code that was thrown out the door.
Anyway, if you are looking for a good read about motivating developers and technical management in general, I suggest you read _Rapid Development_. In my opinion, it should be required reading for all technical managers!
How to Feel Good at Work (Score:2, Insightful)
Management is a necessary evil. One recent experience made that ultimately clear when I started working for a newly opened branch of [company name]. Upper management told us to find our own work then yelled at us for not being billable. They finally hired (suckered?) an ex-military R&D manager for us (a very cool guy) who made me realize just how good he was -- he had vision, knew how to use the employees, and fought upper management when they made bone-headed decisions. In the end, they closed the branch just before out options matured.
Customers are very often like bad management -- they have no clearly defined vision, and they tell you how to do your job when they have no (or worse, little) clue -- so I will lump them together.
Here's my Cliff's Notes(TM) Guide to Happiness in the Workplace:Interpersonal skills are a must. Anyone who says they want to program in isolation is a moron. Management is not a one-way street. You have to be able to clearly (if simply) describe to management what you are doing so they can make the appropriate decisions. Is most cases I find that when I can get management/customers to understand what I am doing and why I made certain design decisions they end up agreeing with me 100%.
Perhaps the hardest thing to do is what I call Requirements Mining. It's a dirty, hard, labor- and mental-intensive process whereby you extract the vision from management/clients. This process can take lots of time and meetings. You have to be able to listen to what management says and, more importantly, to listen to what they're not saying. After mining, you have to cut and polish the gems to present back to management for further review.
Permit me a brief example:
Boss come to you and says "build me X". You have no idea what "X" is, so you schedule a meeting to find out: 1) what is the status quo, 2) what is the problem, and 3) what is the proposed solution. You write up a report with rough sketches and schedule another meeting. More people attend, the vision is further refined. You ask direct and pointed questions. Repeat two or three times till you can come up with a solid understanding and schedule. Present your proposal (design, schedule, estimated cost (if applicable)) to management. Include some options in there to make management feel important but try to convince them that they should pick the one you already decided was the correct one. (After all, you should know your job better than they, no?)
The project is proceeding smoothly with regularly scheduled meetings to display progress. Suddenly, a boss (not your immediate manager) comes to you and says he needs "feature Y because it was promised by sales, so we have to have it." First, redirect him to your immediate supervior. Second, come up with the cost (schedule slip) and inform your manager of the consequences of his choice. Document (even if it's via e-mail) that you told him what would happen when the choice was made and do whatever it is that is decided.
It doesn't matter that the project is now four months late due to feeping creaturism. Why? Because you've already documented the consequences of other people's poor decisions on choices that were never your to make in the first place. You can go home at the end of the day with a clear conscience.
It's only a job.