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Hardware

No-click Mouse? 91

Posted by michael from the like-peanut-butter-without-chocolate dept.
TheRealZappa writes "For quite a while now I have been looking for a mouse that would not make any "clicking" sound when the buttons are pressed... Does it even exist? So to all you quiet-pc amateurs and hardware hackers... Can it be hacked? Can it be bought somewhere?" Sure it exists, I think they call it a "trackball" or "touchpad". Seriously, I've never had a non-broken mouse that didn't click.
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No-click Mouse? More

No-click Mouse?

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  • Touchscreen mouse? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bscott ( 460706 )
    Why not use the stuff they put on touchscreens? It works via the capacitance-change caused by contact with your skin, as I recall. Wouldn't click unless you failed to trim your fingernails...
    • Touchscreens are sensitive to touch though, not pressure. It is awkward to use a mouse with your fingers raised.
      pressure sensitive touch screens exist, they're a lot more complicated though.
      • > awkward to use a mouse with your fingers raised.

        Agreed, but I see two solutions there: you can keep them raised with springy leaf-type supports (which stop short of the fingertip), OR you can have software read the area of fingertip in contact with the "button" surface, and watch for a sudden increase as compared with the "average" - 'cos your fingertip squashes and flattens a bit when you apply pressure with it.

        Or just don't use microswitches DESIGNED to make that little click, if you want a simpler answer.

      • "Touchscreens are sensitive to touch though, not pressure"

        Depends on the technology used for the touchscreen.

        1) Capacitive: Senses the change in capacitance within a grid. Sensitive to bare hands/fingers. Not sensitive to gloved finders, pointers or styluses. Is sensitive to your fingers lying on it, so it's not a good choice for a buttonless/clickless mouse.

        2) Acoustic wave: Senses interference by an object to a generated acoustic (ultrasonic?) wave along the surface of the touchscreen. Also not good for a buttonless mouse.

        3) Resistive: Senses pressure as a change is resistance within a grid. Sensitive to fingers gloved or ungloved, also sensitive to pens, styluses, etc. A great candidate for a clickless mouse.

        There are other types as well, but stick with my #3 for the clickless mouse.

        -
    • Offtopic?!?! This is exactly the opposite of offtopic. "Ontopic," one might say. C'mon
    • The last time I used a touchscreen, I found the real downside:

      You can't right-click - whichever finger you use!

      Anyway, I believe that No-click is covered by "Prior Art" courtesy of your friends and mine, Amazon :-)

  • I don't know what brand you've been using... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Daniel Wood ( 531906 ) on Friday April 05, 2002 @01:25PM (#3291376) Homepage Journal
    Sure it exists, I think they call it a "trackball" or "touchpad". Seriously, I've never had a non-broken mouse that didn't click.

    I have yet to see a trackball that doesn't use "mouse buttons."

    • Re:I don't know what brand you've been using... (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      oh, you don't live in Michael's alternate reality universe? too bad.
    • I have yet to see a trackball that doesn't use "mouse buttons."

      I agree with you, Michael is a bit strange. But just to be contrary, they do use buttonless trackballs quite often in kiosks, for example in museum displays, because they're simply much harder for us damn customers to break. Normally, they use 'dwell' instead of a click; that is, if you hover over a button for a moment or so, it reacts as if a click occured. There are software packages to allow you to do this with a mouse/trackball on a PC; they're nice if you really can't click a button (they're usually part of a disability suite), but you'll go crazy with irritation, waiting around for a click to magically occur, if you have the ability to click normally.
    • ICON computers built into 80's had no mouse buttons, but did include a trackball and an extra inconveniently placed ACTION key on the keyboard...

  • Silicon etc? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NWT ( 540003 ) on Friday April 05, 2002 @01:31PM (#3291416) Homepage
    Perhaps you could inject some silicon under the buttons, i guess that would stop the clickdown sound. Anyway, I just listened carefully to my mouse and it makes 2 clicking sounds, one when the button is pressed and one when it is released. Try to examine an old mouse, rip it into pieces and see where the sound comes from ... Another solution is to waer headphones while sitting in front of your computer ...

  • just break the clicker (Score:3, Informative)

    by vipw ( 228 ) on Friday April 05, 2002 @01:36PM (#3291450)
    just break the catch that clicks under the mouse buttons, i've done that a few times on accident, pulling up the buttons(nervous habit). you lose some tactile response, but i don't see how to get around that, smooth motion is usually what is quiet.
  • I'm not sure exactly how it works, but Apple makes a mouse that has no clicking noise. [apple.com] You merely tap the top of the mouse and there's no moving parts whatsoever. It's USB, but I can't say for sure whether or not it works with PCs.

    I used it briefly at a store, and found it difficult to click with, and there's only one button obviously, but it might be something you could use as a model for a two button mouse if you decide to try building one on your own.

    • Sorry, but the Pro Mouse *does* make a clicking noise. I use them all the time here at work.

    • Re:Apple makes one.. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by TheTomcat ( 53158 ) on Friday April 05, 2002 @02:14PM (#3291694) Homepage
      Wrong.

      There's one of those beside me right now, and it still makes the clicking noise. They do have movable parts, and I've used one on a PC before (it was headless, and I needed a mouse for 5 minutes, so I grabbed the closest USB mouse).

      How it works is pretty simple: the whole top is a button and it is hinged slightly lower than the middle, so you can rest your hand on it, and when you apply pressure, it "clicks".

      They're kinda cool, and they glow all pretty (transparent), but the cord is like 6" long and they only have 1 button.

      S
    • My girlfriend's co-worker has one of these, and from what I remember, it DOES make a clicking noise.
    • Well, I stand corrected.

      I do recall seeing a clear apple mouse in the store once that didn't seem to make any clicking noise, maybe it just wasn't audible over the noise of the store.

      Thanks to this thread, I'm now much more aware every time my mouse clicks. Argghhh!
    • Heh, a one button mouse on a *nix box? Makes the whole "emulate 3 buttons" very, very difficult. ;)
    • One of my old roommates had a setup with one of these mice on his PC. He setup the Mac mouse as his normal mouse, with a USB extension cable to reach his computer, and had a second mouse (PS2) sitting on the floor which he used as a right mouse button by tapping the button with his foot... all in all he still had 2 buttons, and his mouse glowed :) ...feeling bored? try mass genocide

  • No-click mice? (Score:3, Funny)

    by zangdesign ( 462534 ) on Friday April 05, 2002 @02:02PM (#3291608) Journal
    Wouldn't that seriously impair your ability to click on link?

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH!
  • I'm using a Thinkpad T20, and the mouse buutons are very quiet. Maybe the buttons could be modified for a regular mouse?

  • Cirque (Score:4, Informative)

    by Liquor ( 189040 ) on Friday April 05, 2002 @02:03PM (#3291623) Homepage
    You may still be able to get a Cirque 'glide-pad' touchpad for a mouse - while it has buttons, you can use a tap on the pad as a click, and re-assign the buttons to different actions (such as cut and paste). Under Windows, the drivers provide the 'click' throught the PC squeaker - but this can be turned off.

    I haven't seen any for sale for a few years now, though. (On the other hand, I have several, and NONE of them have failed in years of every day use - though the touch surfaces are all well polished and slightly concave now. They're the most reliable mouse I've ever encountered.)
    • I have two Cirque touchpads too. They're so much nicer than a mouse and work great. The one I use all the time (here [cirque.com]) is $70.00, but worth the price. Check it out...

  • replace the switches (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Perdo ( 151843 ) on Friday April 05, 2002 @02:04PM (#3291633) Homepage Journal
    Mouses use momentary on click plunger switches soldered onto a circuit board. Replace the switches with quiet momentary on plungers and cut them to proper height. Probably best to use plungers with stiffer springs to keep a tactile feel of on/off. Spray the moving parts with silicone grease and enjoy your silent mouse. Then put a fan in it to cool your sweaty palm [metku.net]

    • Re:replace the switches (Score:4, Interesting)

      by dattaway ( 3088 ) on Friday April 05, 2002 @05:17PM (#3292904) Homepage Journal
      If your mouse uses those cheap shiny disks directly soldered onto a circuit board, you can replace those disks with those soft, graphite contacts found in some of those cheap soft touch keyboards.

      Well, you don't actually replace the disk as it is needed to hold the graphite composite button in place. Pry that disk up, place a thin slice of the graphite pad underneath it. Make sure the graphite composite surface facing the board is carved into a concave shape. This will allow pressure to turn it on-off. Presto--no more click! Just soft pressure!
      • I've modded quite a few mice, and never seen them with buttons the same as a keyboard's buttons (i.e. the cheap plastic dome type, or any other, for that matter)....

        if I were doing it (and it seems like an awesome idea....) I would go to radioshack and see if they have any quarters (1/4" x 1/4" momentary push button)... quite often they don't carry them in stock, but you might get lucky... if nothing else, ask them to order some for you from their ".com" (or business) catalog... they're often about $.10 a piece... and tell them:
        "you went in to the store over on this other street, and the manager said he wouldn't charge you for shipping on it, but you decided to go to this store to see if they had them in... so could you take the shipping off so I don't have to go to the other store"


        Good Luck
  • the geeky thing to do would be to use your standard mouse, or maybe a serial mouse, plug it into a set of driving-game pedals (1 gas, 1 brake). Epoxy your mouse buttons in the up position, and don't use the click function until you hack together a driver that lets you do variable-force clicking. :)

  • Why no click? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by rubinson ( 207525 )
    Not to troll, but why do you want a no-click mouse in the first place? The clicking sound is audio feedback that improves usability. Same reason that keyboards click. More feedback (tactile, visual, audio) is more useful.

    It's one thing if you're asking out of curiosity or just to see if you can do it. But if you think that there's a real, measurable benefit to a silent-click, I think that you might want to spend some time reconsidering.

    I guess the general question would be: "Under what circumstances would having a silent-click be beneficial?"

    • Re:Why no click? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The clicking sound is audio feedback that improves usability. Same reason that keyboards click.

      I don't know if it's related, but I've seen people with electronic agendas that produce an electronic beep each time they type a key. Once in a bus and once in a library, very annoying to others. I wish they would turn the feature off, but these non-geek users are probably thinking "it has to beep, it's electronic".

      Things have been much quieter since mechanical typewritters, I don't want to go back!

      Besides, if you've ever used a computer while listening to music with headphones, then you've been using a computer without hearings the clicks. Did you miss them? Audio feedback might not be as necessary as you think.
      • I don't know if it's related, but I've seen people with electronic agendas that produce an electronic beep each time they type a key. Once in a bus and once in a library, very annoying to others. I wish they would turn the feature off, but these non-geek users are probably thinking "it has to beep, it's electronic".

        I certainly agree with this sentiment. For what it's worth, I think that it's a matter of finding the right balance. My Palm Pilot has a very unobtrusive click that I find very useful (for example, if I scroll accidentally); on the other hand, my cell phone has a louder beep that I often find distracting (however, I'm not often typing more than a few numbers on my cell so it's not as bad.)

        Besides, if you've ever used a computer while listening to music with headphones, then you've been using a computer without hearings the clicks. Did you miss them? Audio feedback might not be as necessary as you think.

        Actually, even though I almost always listen to music when on the computer, I almost never use headphones. (If I'm in a public place, I simply won't listen to headphones.) However, I'm not sure if this is actually relevant to the current discussion. Mostly, I think it's because I don't like being disconnected from my environment. In any case, it means that I haven't experienced what you're talking about.

        The few times that I have used headphones while on the computer was for gaming (back when I used to have time to game). But in first person shooters, the game itself provides audio feedback so I never felt that I was missing anything.

        Finally, I guess that I should say that I don't think that audio feedback is absolutely necessary. If that were the case, deaf people wouldn't be able to type. However, I do feel that multiple forms of feedback (when, as you point out, it is non-obtrusive) is advantageous.
        • (If I'm in a public place, I simply won't listen to headphones.)

          Check that... If I'm in a publick place, I simply won't listen to music.

          And I previewed and everything... sigh...

        • Re:Why no click? (Score:3, Insightful)

          by epsalon ( 518482 )
          headphones and being connected - the solution:

          When I have to use headphones, I usually connect a mic with some mixing level and play it on the headphones as well. As a result, I'm still connected to the enironment can can hear people around me and key clicks. Lets you enjoy the best of both worlds.

    • Re:Why no click? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by polymath69 ( 94161 )
      Maybe the clicking sound late at night keeps his SO awake? It's a good idea not to annoy the SO.

      • Re:Why no click? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by neitzsche ( 520188 )
        My SO does hear the mouse clicking and complains about it. It's even woken our two kids during particulary fierce xpilot battles. Keyboards can have the "keyclick" feature turned off, why not mice also?

        The the discussion of *why* is irrelevant. It is a mistake for *any* engineer to think that there needs to be a reason. You should always include an on/off switch no matter what the feature.

        Electronic devices (such as printers) that can potentially kill someone (i.e. necktie stuck) if not turned off need to have on/off switches that actually work, and work immediately.

        Computers themselves (i.e. identification badge on a metal-bead neclace hitting a power supply) ought to have a better method than yanking the power cord too.
    • The clicking sound is audio feedback that improves usability. ... More feedback (tactile, visual, audio) is more useful.

      Oh, if only keyboard manufacturers took this to heart. I really miss having an IBM buckling-spring keyboard (*snif*).

      • Northgate Omnikey keyboards are still avalible. Last time I looked they're going for $289ish.

        I've got an Omnikey/101 from the 80's. I love this thing. Perfect tactile response, I actually type noticebly faster on this thing than on a keyboard that has the EXACT same layout, key height, etc. but not the same tactile response.

        I even tried an old IBM keyboard recently. The tactile response was just slightly different, threw me off completely.

        (God I hate those softkey rubber things. You have any idea how hard it is to CLEAN those things without tearing off the rubber "springs" ?)

        • Where are the omnikeys available?

          The IBM tech for the buckling spring 'boards got sold to Lexmark, and then to a company called Unicomp [pckeyboard.com], who now make and sell buckling spring keyboards.

          They're $49 US. I ordered two (one for Work, which I took with me upon the downsizing), and I love them. They feel exactly like the old IBM ones, but they don't have the removable keycaps that the original model M's do.

          • http://www.northgate.com/products/keyboards_mouse/ keyboards_mouse.htm

            Looks like the price actually came down from when I first heard they were avalible.

            Unfortunitely, they've added the extra damn keys between ctrl and alt, I hate those. Oh well.

            On the up side, they have interchangable keycaps, which my old OmniKey/101 doesn't :/
      • I'm a bit late to the discussion, but thought I should point out that you can get IBM Model M keyboards off eBay for anywhere from $5 to $20.

        Incidentally, the greater pressure required on the keys is guaranteed to give you wrist pain within 15 minutes if you try to play Q3 on it.

    • You don't need audio feedback of the mouse click. With my stereo on or the hum of a richoh copier, I can barely hear it anyway.

      Instead, you could write a custom mouse driver that gave you other feedback, such as changing the look, color, or size of the cursor.

      • I don't see how you can describe the sound those Ricoh copiers make as a 'hum'... More like impending-aircraft-take-off-noise of the ricoh copier...

        Kintanon
    • Funny, I asked around a year or so ago on this very topic. Why? Well, first off, I have a silent keyboard. You know what I mean, a non-clicker...

      Secondly, I wanted a no-click mouse so that repeated clicks on record nav or field property buttons wouldn't be confused by my co-workers as me playing FreeCell.

      Yeah, that's it!

      GTRacer
      - Never mind those MineSweeper times - they came preloaded!

    • For me, at least, the tactile feedback is the important thing, and the audio feedback is an annoying side effect. Has anyone ever built a keyboard which felt like an IBM Model M, but didn't make any noise? (I'm more sensitive about keyboards than mice, but the same principle applies.)
    • Well, mice are used to control computers in a lot of situations, right? So how about controlling computers where you need to be very quiet?

      Quite a while ago now I could hear this regular "click-click" sound while I was driving my car, listening to the radio. It really started to bug me. Eventually, I realised it wasn't some wierd problem with the car (I originally thought it was a worn suspension bush), but the presenter on the radio programme clicking through lists of phone calls, news items, etc...

  • I've seen it before (Score:5, Funny)

    by red_dragon ( 1761 ) on Friday April 05, 2002 @03:22PM (#3292150) Homepage

    I've seen a mouse like this before. It's the StupidaMouse [dumbentia.com], the mouse with no buttons ("so users will stop clicking on things and crashing their computers"). [HTML [dumbentia.com]]

  • MSR were doing research into new UI's and ways to interact with them, and they played around with as well as the buttons, and the wheel, making the primary button also sense capacitance. It would only show the tool bar when your finger touched the button.

    There is no reason why someone couldnt build a mouse that used this technique to sense the contact with a finger.

  • Make the clicking stop! (Score:3, Funny)

    by qurob ( 543434 ) on Friday April 05, 2002 @05:09PM (#3292852) Homepage
    I'd pay a hundred dollars for a mouse like this.

    I'd give it to my roomate, and then I would be free of the 'click click click click click' of Diablo!
  • The question is if you use a no-click mouse do things like one-click shopping still apply?

    "Your honor, since my mouse made no noise it was one tap shopping."
  • While touch pads are pretty awful as pointing devices, if you want absolute quiet, they may be your best bet. Many of them can be configured so that when you gently tap on them, it counts as a click.
  • that it was asked about a

    Buttonless mouse! :)

    Seriously, what use can buttonless mouse have?

    Why can you want it?

    • The mouse could be controlled by triggers instead of buttons (actually, that would do a good job at removing the click).
    • Plenty...if you design an OS whose paradigm isn't precise action but instead precise movement. It would require a bit more training, but could be very useful. I've written some apps for Win CE with a constant tap philosophy -- once the stylus hits the pad, it's movement of the stylus that alters menus and commands, rather than the tap itself. A guy even wrote a keyboard that works this way, and it's pretty quick once you get use to the paradigm...i was faster with that than I am with Fitaly.

      Also, nothing says you can't rely on synnergy between keyboard and mouse to drive commands. I play a lot of FPS like this -- use the moust as a targetting device but control everything else with the other hand. That way the pressure of a finger on the trigger won't mess up motion.
  • I never cared about that bloody noise. But now you've started talking about it, it is really pissing me off!

    My Genius mouse and my 5-years old keyboard are too noise (now I know they are)!
  • Some of the older Sun mice (usually attached to type 5 keyboards) are pretty quiet, but I don't know if you'd have much luck attaching to a PC. However, it shows the technology is there, probably using strips of metal for contacts rather than microswitches as used in most mice.

  • Argh! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Reality Master 101 ( 179095 ) <<moc.liamg> <ta> <101retsaMytilaeR>> on Sunday April 07, 2002 @01:41PM (#3299497) Homepage Journal

    Sure it exists, I think they call it a "trackball" or "touchpad". Seriously, I've never had a non-broken mouse that didn't click.

    Once again proving Michael is stupidest editor on Slashdot. Michael, it's THE BUTTONS that are clicking, NOT THE MOUSE BALL. Why do you think a trackball or touchpad would not have clicking buttons? Is there some intrinsic property to a very large ball that would cause it not to have clicking buttons?

    Do you actually read what the people are asking before adding your inane comments?

    Yes, this is Flamebait, go ahead and mark me down. But it's worth losing the 3 points to make this point.

    • Why do you think a trackball or touchpad would not have clicking buttons?
      This is true; nearly all trackballs/touchpads do have buttons.
      But most touchpads allow 'clicking' without pressing the buttons by simply tapping one's finger on the touchpad; this is probably why michael mentioned the touchpad.
  • The LogiCAD spacebass 6d CAD thang will work.
    I'ts a 6degree of freedon ball for CAD work, but can work as a standard mouse. The button is silent.

    Pick one up on eBay.
  • Laptop keyboards tend to be of the mushy, non-clicking variety. The hard disks and fans tend to be quieter than desktop equivalents. And, to answer your question, the the pointing device (whatever you call it) on my IBM Thinkpad and its 3 buttons are essentially silent. Mushy, but with some physical feedback so you know contact was made. Satisfying to use. Anyways, something to consider.

  • a plethora of silent mouse buttons (Score:3, Informative)

    by dutky ( 20510 ) on Sunday April 07, 2002 @10:40PM (#3301459) Homepage Journal
    one poster [slashdot.org] has pointed out the older Sun mice whose buttons make no sound. These are sun part number 370-1169-01 (for the type-3 version with a modified RJ-11 connector) or 370-1170-01 (for the type-4 with an 8-pin min-DIN connector), and were manufactured by MouseSystems. (Mouse Systems Corp. referred to these as part numbers 401162-529/A and 401162-035/D) Nice little three button optical (old style, requiring a reflective gridded mousing surface) mice. Unless you are using a Sun workstation with a type-3 or type-4 keyboard, you will have damn little hope of using these mice.

    I seem to recall that Mouse Systems made simlar mice for other systems as well, including Macs and PCs, so you may have some luck finding an old Mouse Systems mouse with clickless buttons that will work with a relativly modern computer.

    There are also a couple of PS/2 style mice from IBM that have silent buttons: both the standard wedge shaped PS/2 mouse (Model 6450350) and the Psersonal System/2® Mini-Mouse (Part No. 95F5443) have silent buttons, and can easily be used on any modern PC with a PS/2 mouse port. Both of these mice are simple opto-mechanical two button jobs, so anyone needing a multi-button or scroll-wheel fix is SOL.

    Finally we have the early Microsoft Serial Mouse (FCC ID: C3K7PN 9939) with a 25-pin serial connector and buttons that curved over the front edge of the mouse. This mouse also had clickless buttons. Upon disassembly one finds that the buttons are simple dome microswitches, which must mean that you can get such microswitches in both clickfull and clickless versions. Again, this is a simple opto-mechanical two-button mouse.

  • This is an important issue..... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The scene: Me hacking away on some PHP/Apache/MySQL project on my PC. The love of my life calls. The conversation begins...

    HER: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

    ME (still typing): Uh huh.

    HER: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

    ME (wondering my MySQL is giving me an error, click click click): Yeah.

    HER: Blah blah blah are you even listening to me?

    ME (same error, WTF!): Yeah, of course I am.

    HER: No you aren't. Your using your computer again.

    ME (stops typing): No I'm not.....

    HER: Blah blah blah blah blah

    ME (switching windows): Yeah.

    HER: Blah blah what was that? Your using your computer! I just heard your mouse!

    Me: Um... that was a bird outside or something.

    Busted again.

    (To get past Lameness Filter: asj daskj daksl djklsajdlksaj d casdka scj asjklachjka sdklj klgjcdfjgxlkamj xalkjdklajdak ldklg vjgc lfkj alkjsd as lclaj daldkj cflfhslkf jclcf jlksfjsdl fcjslfsjfslfslkd fjxl kjsdklfjsdf.)

  • Just fix the buttons so that they remain in place, and drill out two small holes to the tops of each button. Then, remove the momentary switch from the buttons and run a small piece of metal or wire up so that it is just above the surface of the mouse. That way, when you go to click, your finger completes the circuit and no noise or moving parts are required.

    Best of all, you still get the feedback of a small *zap* so that you know you actually clicked the button :)

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