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The Internet

Setting up an Internet Cafe? 76

Posted by Cliff from the looking-before-that-leap dept.
ioquatix asks: "Hi there... I am planning (not 100% sure yet) on setting up an internet cafe in Christchurch, New Zealand. However, there are many interesting issues that I must resolve first, such as location, staff, security (thats one of the big ones, unfortunately), and computers. The question I want to ask is, who out there (there is bound to be a few) has set up an internet cafe, and what advice can you give?"

"What kind of set up did you start off with: 10 computers, 256kbit DSL, a dedicated T3 or something else? I am currently looking at 8 computers with some form of DSL (this should be the most cost effective solution). Cable might be available, but it depends on the location.

This internet cafe is primarily aimed at gamers, and I am interested to know how much success small internet cafes have had with bulk software purchases (say X = number of computers (8 to 10), X licenses for Half-Life and X licenses for Starcraft etc). I think I can get into contact with suppliers in Australia, but X licenses may still not be enough to be bulk. What suppliers (in the Australia/Pacific region) have other internet cafes delt with and bought software from? Please pass along any lessons learned if so.

What kind of times are the most popular? Being open all day costs a lot, so I was thinking of being open 5~6pm to about 11pm, seven days a week, and also having an 'all night special' on friday nights. What times do you run your internet cafe? What kind of special all night things do you have? For the readers out there, what times would be optimal for you and what kind of 'specials' would you want?

I am also interested how you deal with security. I have been thinking of basically hiring a bouncer to deal with gatecrashers and such (but this is rather expensive). Is security this much of a problem? I mean, how do you deal with a car of five drugged and drunken idiots intent on (as in smashing window/door down intent) getting some counterstrike goodness (or just seeing what happens when you stick someones head inside a broken monitor)? Do internet cafes attract this kind of person? I was talking to my parents, and they were saying that drunken people just drive around looking for a joint to gatecrash, and being open at 11pm just sounds like trouble to me. So does your internet cafe hire bouncers or some other form of security?

I had thought I would get people to 'register' first, and then book appointments beforehand - perhaps even some sort of video security system on the front door (or maybe even fingerprint ID/keycards). Has anyone tried anything like this and has it been successful? Can you recommend any such systems in existence? Any kind of 'register' before use system will always cause hassles for new users, and put off the casual gamer, which is also a problem...

The security situation also has a lot to do with location. I am currently looking at an area close to the local university, and also a location within the university. Getting a site within university would solve a lot of the security problems (university has its own security staff) so this would help, but I am not sure if there is a space currently for rent.

What kind of system should I run? Obviously most games are only going to run on windows, (and wine is a bitch, and imagine the bitchiness multiplied out against X machines), but I don't want to buy windows licenses (and I also don't want to pirate software) so where can I pick up some second hand windows 98SE licenses for a small cost? Would it be legal, if I was to advertise I will pay $20 for your win98SE license? Or would I be better off buying X licenses for Micro$oft Super Advanced Multigaming iExecution eServer Special Edition?

Anyway, I am not sure I have even thought through all the issues yet, and I am sure there may be something I have forgotten something, but this is just an idea I had, and the figures work out pretty nicely on paper, for a student income ^_^.

If you have any suggestions, please write me! I will be very interested to hear what you think.

Samuel Williams
coolfr3ak@gmx.net
http://utopia5.mine.nu/"
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Setting up an Internet Cafe? More

Setting up an Internet Cafe?

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  • Sigh, another poor Ask Slashdot...

    I've no doubt this is interesting. I've no doubt people here can provide insight.

    But this poster is asking people to give details of their market research, business experience and supplier contracts, for free, in a public forum! I'm sorry, but that's daft. If you want to set up in business you have to be prepared to do some research yourself, not just expect others to give you everything, giftwrapped, on a plate.
    • Dude, the same could be said of asking 'What OS should I be using for '. That's what Slashdot is about. If you want everyone to have to pay for information and have nothing be free, I believe the RIAA is looking for high quality employees...

      --trb
      • No, it's not.

        Asking for information on how to best complete a task is one thing - asking for answers for every significant question relating to setting up a business is quite another.

        If he'd asked what sort of connection the hardcore gamers preferred (and why), or what services made people come back, or what games people liked, what drinks people bought, that sort of thing I wouldn't have a problem. But he's looking for all that and then some, plus pricing information on competitors' relationships with suppliers! Clearly, he hasn't thought through a lot of the basics or done the maths.

        He's almost asking us to write his businessplan. Sorry, but that's not what Ask Slashdot is for.
        • but that's not what Ask Slashdot is for.

          IANAL, but I believe its for free legal advice!
        • IMHO, Ask Slashdot is a forum to ask anything about the computer/geek world in general. This man isn't asking us to write his business plan, he already has a partial business plan (note that for just about every question he provides his current solution). Perhaps he wants some feedback to reassure himself that he's taking the correct steps. Maybe someone will suggest something he hasn't thought of. Either way, Ask Slashdot is exactly the forum for this question.

          Let's say he DOES want us to create a business plan for him...what's wrong with that? Feel like it's giving away company secrets? Don't post. Feel like he should be doing the research himself? Don't post. Were I starting a business that revolved around computer people as the main clientele, Slashdot would be one of the first places I checked for resources, if for no other reason than because it has a large base of intelligent users.

          My $.02, that's all...where would you suggest he go to find this information?

          --trb

        • Sorry, but that's not what Ask Slashdot is for.


          Well, since Cliff [mailto] is in charge of Ask.Slashdot.org [slashdot.org], and he decided to post it, then clearly that is what it is for, or else he wouldn't have posted it.

          (Attention moderators: this comment is offtopic and you won't hurt my feeling moderating it as such.)
          • So if Cliff posted an Ask Slashdot topic on, say, what was declarable on a tax return, or how to solve a problem we'd been set in an assignment, you'd find that OK?

            Ask Slashdot has always seemed to be about problems that afflict the Slashdot community as a whole and so where we may be able to offer advice. This often includes 'is something legal?' type questions.

            But look, this guy wants a businessplan writing via Slashdot. He's not asking a single question (which Ask Slashdot seems to normally be), or posting reeally techy stuff.

            Look, it's been said before, Cliff may not be the sharpest editor. He posts lots of daft questions and tends to post in fits and starts. He may well be doing this as a hobby, I honestly don't know - but the fact is, Slashdot is now a commercial site and could do with better quality contributions than this. It shouldn't have been published, bluntly, and we can't just say that Cliff's word is gospel.
            • So if Cliff posted an Ask Slashdot topic on, say, what was declarable on a tax return, or how to solve a problem we'd been set in an assignment, you'd find that OK?

              "Okay" implies a moral or taste judgement. You said "this is not what Ask Slashdot is for". Since Cliff makes up what AS *is*, what he posts defines what AS is. So, it may not be okay (YMMV), but it is what Ask Slashdot is for.

              --
              Evan

    • I've no doubt this is interesting. I've no doubt people here can provide insight. I'm sure the poster IS doing other market research etc, after all, when you walk into a bank and want a business loan, telling them you posted on /. is not going to convince them you gave alot of thought to your plan. As a side point, I'd happily give out any information I can for free, after all.. you never know when you might want some info yourself, or who you end up helping along the way.
    • Have you thought of doing a topless Internet Cafe? Bring some blonde Sheila's from the big island. Talk about bringing in a clientele base with $$$ to spend...
    • Hi, its me ioquatix. There is unfortunatly very little information on this kind of business available to me in New Zealand, and there are not many internet cafes either. Please do not make blind assertions like 'He is asking other people to do his research'. Even though it might seem true on the surface, you have to look beyond that point. I have done my research, and the idea seems viable, however, I am mearly interested in other peoples ideas and input on the problems that I have encountered while drawing up a business plan.

      You are correct in saying
      >>>
      But this poster is asking people to give details of their market research, business experience and supplier contracts, for free, in a public forum! I'm sorry, but that's daft. If you want to set up in business you have to be prepared to do some research yourself, not just expect others to give you everything, giftwrapped, on a plate.
      >>>

      I am only 17 years old, and my last business only made me $10,000. I don't know much about economics, only that I want people to have fun in my cafe, and I don't want to run out of money as soon as it opens. I am doing it for the people, and that is why I asked the people, What do you want?

      Thanks for your time.

      ioquatix

  • First thing (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Is there really a market for internet cafes anymore? They used to be popular when people could not or did not want to afford a decent internet connection at home. While internet cafes are a booming in china, they seem to be on the decline in countries with better infrastructure. Have you investigated if there really is demand for what you are going to do?

    • Re:First thing (Score:4, Informative)

      by ThePilgrim ( 456341 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:28AM (#3415031) Homepage
      Not sure about Internet Caffes, but I think a Gameing Caffe would go down a bomb.

      Switch the games each hour, and allow as many or as few to link together.

      Rotate the starting game through the week and have a newbies night.

      The sight of 2 dozen game heads should put off even the most drunken thug so security while open should not be a problem.

      Keep at least one day a week back for private parties.

      The advantage is that you don't need an internet connection, and most modern games will allow you to network them selves together without having to have a disk in every machine.

      As to security of the machines them selves.
      Don't install a floppy drive and see if you can find some way of padlocking the CDROM drive.

      Don't supply speakers, but do supply headphones.

      Hope this helps

      The Pilgrim

      • Re:First thing (Score:3, Insightful)

        by clintp ( 5169 )
        The sight of 2 dozen game heads should put off even the most drunken thug so security while open should not be a problem.
        The sight of two dozen game heads would also scare off any kind of casual patron to an "internet cafe." Have you seen them in action?

        Or put another way; in the heyday of the 80's a lot of places tried merging their business with arcades. (Think pizza parlors and video games.) There aren't really many success stories of either living in harmony with the other. Gamers aren't going to sip coffee, nibble food, and spend money outside of the games -- you'd better make all of your money right there at the console. The gamers (and the crowd that goes along) are going to be loud, disruptive, and generally a pain in the ass to anyone who's dropping in and doesn't intend on playing the games.

        • I was thinking that your avrage game head will want to mainline caffine while pulling an all nighter. The rest of the day you'll end up with little Toney and his school friends + Mum and Dad.

      • Yeah Thanks for the _Constructive_ Input (unlike some others!)

        I have already decided that to create a community, there needs to be some aspect of challenge (ie you know how wolves fight in packs, but they have the head wolf and then the female wolf etc heirachy), which is only created by games (not internet explorer ^-^' ). There would have to be a continual stream of competetions and prizes, clan battles and other such things, so that I can really develop the community and make it thrive.
    • Is there really a market for internet cafes anymore

      My parents are setting up a bar in Nidri, Lefkas, Greece - as an aside they're having an ISDN line installed and a couple of computers.

      The greek government collects 75 pounds or euros (I forget) per computer per year (comehting to do with online gambling), plus normal ISP costs.

      However people in nidri are traveling 20km to lefkas town to send a few emails. Not everywhere is as wired as the US/canada/uk/germany/france/benalux type countries.
    • I'm not sure you're looking the correct target audience. Kids (under 18/still living at home) don't have the ability to order a high speed connection, and many times their parents don't feel like one is necessary. Couple this with the fact that 13-18 year olds have one of the highest amounts of disposable income, and you have a pretty profitable business.

      --trb
  • Don't Universities offer Internet access to their students anyway?

    As far as Univerity-wide gaming bans are concerned, there's always a way around it...

  • Software is cheap (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:06AM (#3414971)
    You're worrying too much about software licensing costs. It is certainly a big sum which has to be paid in advance, but the running costs, especially for employees, are probably dwarfing the software costs pretty quickly. Do the math. Oh, and don't think too big when Slashdot is your primary source of information for these basic questions and you have no experience in this field.
    • The difference between $800 and $100 on operating systems is insignificant when compared to even the cost of the computer (especially a gaming rig), forget about the taxes, rent, power, heating, and as you said, wages.

      However can you use a $40 off the shelf game in an internet cafe and charge people to play them? Dont you have to buy special licenses?
      • You are not charging them to play that game, you are charging them to use you computer, the cames come with "free to use" while you are renting my machine

        -- Tim
        • Um, no. The local gaming place (10 computers + a server and one that the clerk/admin sits at), got audited three times. Luckily, they *did* go out and get the right licenses. Some of the game companies allow you to go ahead and just have a copy per machine. Some charge a bit more, and others a bit less(!). At least one (I can't remember which company) wanted something like two grand per machine per year.

          They also didn't allow people to install their own games on the machines for obvious reasons, and didn't allow people to use their own mice or keyboards for nonobvious reasons (people would swipe them, or complain that the store's computer "broke" their trackball, or - worst of all - windows would reconfigure things for the new mouse, and then the settings on the system would be all messed up for the next consumer).

          Something like a tenth of the time is "giveaway" - don't expect to charge for all the hours, as there is always some reason people are darting in and out. At the same time, if you let them, and give them that free time for bathroom breaks, running to the car, etc (basically, being a "nice guy"), you can easily up the price 10% and keep them as customers.

          Sure, you'll have people run up tabs - but ban them when they owe $50, and two weeks later, they will show up with the $50 (or at least most of them). Once hooked, once it's the local hangout, people will stay there.

          --
          Evan

  • Good ingredients for an internet cafe... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Gid1 ( 23642 ) <tom@@@gidden...net> on Friday April 26, 2002 @08:16AM (#3414996)
    By far the best internet cafe I've been to is one in Cambridge, UK, called CB1.

    The reason it was great is that it was a viable business as a cafe, as a second-hand bookshop and as an internet access point, or ANY SINGLE ONE of those.

    In fact, the computers almost seemed like an afterthought. The first day I went there, I was greeted by the proprietor behind the bar with a smile and friendly conversation, with no pressure to buy coffee, books or internet time. I stayed for hours, and came back the next day (and the day after, etc.)

    I ended up spending most of my summer holiday hanging out there, getting to know the regulars, helping out with all the newbies, playing chess and reading the daily newspaper freely supplied.

    A number of the regulars were reasonably big names in the Cambridge internet community, who just found this place to hang out at, where they could check their email occasionally, just in case.

    We were all techie types, attracted initially by the internet connectivity (this was back in 1995!), but kept there by the friendly atmosphere. Think of it like 'Central Perk' on 'Friends'.

    From what Dan (the proprietor) said, the business was profitable from day one.

    In comparison, the worst types of internet cafe are the heavily chromed and exposed cable ducting places like Cyberia, which were sterile, unfriendly places.

    I don't think you can make money from internet connectivity alone, but treat it as an added feature to an already viable friendly meeting place and cafe, and you're onto a winner.
    • Preciscly. Even having the computers for free during offtime will pay for themselves because of people staying longer, and buying more drinks.

      Make it cosy, make it friendly, and attract the same sort of people.

      P.S. Dont use any of this time limiting software. Just imagine it, you are gurading your flag, just about to blast the other team away, and "bing", please pay another 36 cents and enter authorisation code.

    • The sister cafe is the meeting place for the local LUG.

      I'm impressed by the hardware they have, but the shopfront of CB1 is just beautiful.

  • A community thing? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Tribe ( 135040 )
    From the way the submitter frames it, he sounds like he is pursuing this more as a community thing than as a profitable business. In that case, a lot of what he is saying seems reasonable.. "cost effective" dsl vs cable, licensing costs. It would be interesting to see a club (maybe a LUG or similar?) try to create a not-for-profit internet cafe, perhaps a monthly membership almost like a Geek Country Club or something ;)

    Has anyone tried anything like that?
    • Hi, Yes this is a community thing..

      Its still aimed at being a for-profit thing however (pay my parents back for university), but I really want to create a community atmosphere, and this is why I am asking you, the people who will most likely be attracted to such a place, what kind of things are important to you. I want to create a place where like minded people can meet and have fun together.
  • How about using LTSP or some other terminal server software? That way you could use smaller/older/cheaper PC's as X servers and just have one powerful PC as the server. Moreover, if it's really an internet cafe, then the only software you'd need to provide is Mozilla/Netscape/your-favorite-browser.

    Of course, the real question then is whether people would use the machines since the screens don't look just like Windows. Sigh.

    • "since the screens don't look just like Windows"

      http://www.qvwm.org/

      However as he wants to do games too, only a handfull will run on linux. Sure, use linux as the backend ftp/router etc. But keep the front end windows.

      However yes, an internet only terminal doesnt matter if its ie, mozilla or konqueror - as long as they are all set up correctly (flash etc) and there arent any sites that eont work, or need fiddling to work in linux.
  • I once went to the The Playing Fields [theplayingfields.com], a gaming cafe in London. It was great: For about 30ukp, I got a day ticket. They had a 2mb SDSL line, which made gaming on london servers insanely quick. I spent the whole day there (opening hours around 11am - 11pm) quaking with friends. The licensed bar was nice too :) There were around 20-30 PC's with a wide selection of games, running on well-spec'd machines.

    They seemed to hold a lot of events. And sponsorship from hardware/software manufacturers was there. Also, they did corporate entertainment , which you might want to consider. After all, gaming on a LAN is best when you do it with friends :)

    I made plans to return to the place, however unfortunately they shutdown. Shame, it was great fun. Good luck in your business.

  • Internet Cafe != Gaming Cafe (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If you want to give people Internet access, then spring for either Xterms booting off a central server, or Windows CE terminals booting off of a Windows Terminal Server. Maybe provide both so that people can use the web browser they prefer.

    Both of those scenarios allow you to easily set up security. (Dig all you want at WTS, but many web sites are "Internet Explorer" only, and using WTS terminals is the only way to prevent Joe Hacker from hacking the box.)

    Find someone who's familiar with running something like a Starbucks or other coffee house, and get them to do the food side of the biz. Or pay them a consulting fee. People stay longer if there's food and caffeiene. Don't forget books and newspapers for the chronic reader types.
  • I havent actually run my own cyber cafe. But, my first job was in one when it first opened 6 or so years ago, and for a long time I went from coffee boy on a saturday, to Developer and Linux Admin on the ISP side of things. Im not there anymore, but I did see what worked, and what didnt as the company navigated what was at the time, uncharted waters.

    One of the most important things they had was a good working relationship with the local PC dealer (Who know own the whole thing) who supplied all the PCs, offered support etc in exchange for free hosting and access (Back then things cost alot more mind you) and most of the bussiness seem to take place at the pub next door rather then an office. Also, if they deal with business customers alot they will be in a good place to help you with licenses etc.

    Not so easy when your planing, but the best thing about a cyber cafe is its normally a really relaxed place, keeping it a social place where people can meet up and just drink coffee helps..

    And if you have a college near by, get one or two of the students from an IT course to work for free access/gameing and chances are, all their friends will hang out there too!

  • DSL/Cable AUP (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Icepick_ ( 25751 )
    Most consumer grade DSL and Cable Acceptable Use Policies prohibit re-selling of the service.

    Something for you to think about before you start charging by the hour for bandwidth.

    • Not like they'll ever know. Plus, that's one of those AUP type things I'll never abide by.
    • Most consumer grade DSL and Cable Acceptable Use Policies prohibit re-selling of the service.
      Most DSL and cable companies wouldn't sell consumer service to a storefront location to begin with, though. Assuming the guy's cafe is going to be run from any sort of commercial property, he'll have to buy a commercial DSL line. Around here, both DSL (BellSouth) and cable (RoadRunner) offer "business class" service, which is more expensive but comes with fewer restrictions.

      Shaun
  • This isn't exactly in line with what you are doing, but it's similar enough that you may get some good ideas from it. JWZ [jwz.org], of Netscape fame, has been hard at work at a night club called DNA Lounge [dnalounge.com]. It includes kiosks for internet access based on Linux terminal servers, as well as a few other ideas. If you go to the backstage area of the site, you'll find instructions on how to do many of the things he's done.

  • Perhaps not so complicated (Score:4, Informative)

    by yancey ( 136972 ) on Friday April 26, 2002 @10:43AM (#3415827)

    An established cafe (as in coffee) here, which happens to be across the street from a university, has just begun offering network access, yet they provide no computers.

    The cafe got a DSL line and simply provides ethernet jacks to it's customers for very reasonable prices. The customers pay 4.00 USD to have all-day access and can pay 16.00 USD for all-week access. Students bring in their laptop computers, pay their fee, sit down and plug in.

    The beautiful thing is that students can browse the web but can also play net games over the local ethernet and the cafe does not have to pay for expensive computers and the software licenses, only for the DSL line and the network switch and cable and jacks.

    It seems to be working out very well. The cafe has noticed that the environment is now more studious with people sitting longer and drinking more coffee. If they spill coffee on the keyboard, at least it is their computer and not yours.

  • yes definately. i am in australia for a while, and when i was in brisbane, the net cafe, gaming spots were all packed all the time. they were nice places with nice boxes. they had to have been making good money. the ideas with coffe and books and stuff are good, and please dear god, let ppl hook thier laptops into your pipe! charge them half price of the normal net usage or something. maybe even get a wireless hub. the "cooler" your place is, the better chance of cool people (who spend lots of money to be cool) will go there and spend thier money.

  • my thoughts and ideas. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by hatrisc ( 555862 )
    while i was in high school, we had a computer store which provided just a lan to play quake, quake2, and starcraft. there were only about 6 of us who went, but since we went everyday we kept the place in business. since you are in a city, it'll be much easier to keep a business. other things to consider are these.

    1. High speed connection. the less lag there is the more people will want to play. if people are connecting to a server with 20-30 ping they'll come back if they are hardcore enough.

    2. For security in a windows environment check out something like fortress (spelling?) using that, you can restrict access from installing software, blah blah blah. basically it'll save your ass from the liscensing problems.

    3. provide a comfortable environment. comfy chairs, well, designed sort of Jazz cafe type thing. Like $tarbuck$ usually has. People will feel more relaxed and will stay longer.

    4. Provide the daily news papers, and other various magazines, such as Wired, gaming magazines, and other things of that nature. Also magazines with current events and things.

    5. As someone pointed out, an x-terminal environment might work out, but, gaming would probably be an issue. so you possibly consider that for "Dedicated Browser Machines."

    6. Software liscensing. As far as I am aware, as long as it is liscenced to ONE pc only, there shouldn't be a problem with letting other people use the PC. Read Mr. Gate'$ article on donating pcs, and if something happens, blame it on him.
    It should be the same idea.

    7. Provide food, such as bagels, pastries, coffee, and other such drinks that people enjoy.

    8. As far as security of the place goes, it's really a matter of what kind of area you live in. If theres a police station across the street, you probably don't need MUCH else. Of course cameras should probably be installed, as well as a safe for liscenses and other things you could get in trouble for not having if they got stolen.

    for the record, the place that i hung out at during high school (with 5 other people) had, chips, soda, and some candy bars, 7 computers (one for a dedicated server) and didn't have an internet connection. just the 7 computers on a lan, and we had a blast! I also lived in a very small town (maybe 3000 people)
  • When I lived in Michigan, I went to Digital Ops [digitalops.com]. It sounds just like what you're looking at doing. They provide the games and a fun environment, and stay open real late. They can probably tell you all about the pitfalls of running that kind of business.

  • First, ask the Wizard. He knows all and sees all. (Tell him hello for me, Michael Jennings of Portland, Oregon, USA.)

    Second, remember that backpacking travelers are very good customers for e-mail access. Advertise at all the youth hostels and low-cost traveler hotels. It's free to put up a sign there. Be sure you provide brochures with a complete map and complete instructions for getting to the cafe by bus. I think you may have three long-staying customers, at least, within four hours of advertising to backpackers.

    Third, advertise at regular hotels and motels that don't provide access.

    Fourth, recommend to everyone that the United States be returned to the British Empire. That Revolutionary War was illegal. ... Wait, that's off topic...

  • Cyber Cafes (Score:3, Informative)

    by markwelch ( 553433 ) <markwelch@markwelch.com> on Friday April 26, 2002 @11:52AM (#3416337) Homepage Journal
    Darn, I just typed a very, very, very long reply detailing my experiences in several internet cafes in London, and then I did something and lost all that work.

    Anyway, my suggestions in a much shorter version:

    • Visit as many cyber cafes as you can in as many different environments (tourist, college, city, small town).
    • Surf the web to see the web sites offering information about cyber cafes. Often they include helpful pictures showing layout and amenities. They almost always detail the available software, and indicate what other business activities (cell-phone, photo processing, bookstore, coffee) are at the same business. And they will also identify any special capabilities (for me, it was important to be able to plug in my USB camera, install its driver, and download pictures to burn onto a CD-R disc -- which only one cyber cafe in all of London allowed (it was on Edgeware Road).
    • As others have suggested, do your market research.
    • Consider taking a job in a cyber cafe somewhere for a few weeks (for example, sign on just as the students all quit at end of semester). (Talk to a solicitor/lawyer if you do this, and don't sign any non-disclosure employment agreements!)
    • Use common sense. For example, if you sell coffee at the cyber cafe, anticipate problems with coffee getting into the equipment (I know from personal experience that Coca-Cola [TM] is fatal for a keyboard.)
    • You recognize that security is an issue. Some cyber-cafes give customers access to just the keyboard and display, not the computer itself (which is on the other side of a wall or in a wooden box), but this makes it pretty hard to save to disk.
    • Anticipate some key issues: what if someone wants to upload 400 megabytes of digital images as attachments to email? (The receiving server may reject it, and then the customer will be annoyed after paying you for all that time). What if someone logs in and starts broadcasting spam from your equipment? (Suddenly your IP addresses are all blacklisted!)

  • Cafe vs Internet vs Games (Score:4, Informative)

    by Jon Peterson ( 1443 ) <jonNO@SPAMsnowdrift.org> on Friday April 26, 2002 @11:55AM (#3416358) Homepage
    Hi,

    I worked at in Internet cafe in 1994-5.

    First off, if you are serious about the cafe bit, you've got a lot more work to do. You'll need a license to sell food and drink, you'll need hygeine certificates, someone to wash up, and a lot of money for the kitchen fittings, cappucino machine etc. etc.

    So, think hard about if you want to offer 'real' food. You might find a refrigerated cabinet with cans of soft drinks and maybe sandwiches etc. is a whole lot easier.

    Secondly, the computers. Different users have massively different needs. Take a look at easyeverything in the UK (http://www.easyeverything.com/). They have about 500 terminals in a single building, and they cater for people who want to use the Internet. No games, no paninni, no comfy chairs and sofas. They are open 24hrs. They are dirt cheap. (as in 1 UKPS / 2-3hrs at low demand times).

    The cafe I worked in catered for the small time user - people who maybe needed their CV printed, or wanted to check flight prices, and didn't have a PC at home. Those people suck. They often need help to do stuff, they don't hang around long, and they aren't rich.

    Game cafe's can work, but think about how much people are willing to pay. Is DSL common / cheap in your area? If so, many may be fine playing at home. Are there lots of kids in the area that maybe can't afford the latest games, but could afford to play a few hours at a time?

    I never ran a game cafe (unless you count MUDs, and many of our best customers were kids playing MUDs). However I would guess:

    1. Hardware turnover. Gamers tend to be brutal to keyboards, mice and joysticks, but they'll expect them to be in top condition. Likewise, they'll expect monitors in good condition. think about replacement costs.

    2. Games eat bandwidth. 8 ppl playing half-life is a load more bandwidth than 8 ppl using hotmail.

    3. The cafe I worked in stayed open till 11, and it wasn't a great part of town, either. We never had any trouble at all. Unless you are downtown in a bad area, and maybe placed very near a local kids hangout, you shouldn't have trouble.

    4. Insurances costs were massive, and the insurers demanded very expensive locks / alarms to be fitted.

    5. Dead time eats your profits very fast. You pay the same rent regardless of what your openning hours are.

    6. Technology is the least of your worries, just keep it simple. I'd tell anyone who's thinking Linux and thin clients and anything sexy and clever to head over to the real world, then head over to easyeverything.com to see how to do it properly.

    7. People will ask for printing/CD-Rom burning/Floppy access etc so decide in advance how/if you are going to offer it.

    8. Don't invest anything in a small business like this that you can't afford to lose. 2/3 of small businesses fail within a year. :-)

    Mail me if you want more info.

  • CyberCafe (Score:3, Informative)

    by Lando ( 9348 ) <lando2+slashNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday April 26, 2002 @12:51PM (#3416729) Homepage Journal
    I've set up and run a cybercafe in the past so I'll try to provide some feedback for you.

    "Pure" cybercafe's do not make money on their computers. Primarily income is made on the food and drinks served at the cybercafe, with the computers are most breaking even...

    Generally connection costs will eat any money that you bring in to run the computers.

    Internet gaming computers can make money, but most games currently coming out have a prohibition against rental or use in a cybercafe setting. Furthermore, contacting companies to get a cybercafe license you find that there is no such license. Activision for one is a big one that does this... There is a prohibition against use in a cybercafe and contacting Activision itself you discover that Activision doesn't see a market there and has no provisions for licensing to a cybercafe... Activision is just an example, but most companies are like this.

    So in general your only choice is trying to either a) operate beneath the gaming company's radar level. ie just giving the games out for use on systems. Or b) hiring a lawyer to help work around the legal issues.

    Certain states in the US, treat computer software as a book. As long as you have the licenses you can have people playing the games on your systems. The state will not recognize the eula probition against rent, resale, or cybercafe's. A lawyer is needed to provide at least basic protection.

    I recommend not trying to support yourself by operating beneath the radar, therefore if you want to run the cybercafe as a business venture, definately get a lawyer.

    That's all I can say about legal issues.

    Technical issues:
    Internet connection... I feel that the internet connection is very important in a cybercafe... The ability to contact the net and play online games is important. However when you set up this type of connection understand that most firewalls that you place between your machines and the internet are going to block some access to systems... Getting IP addresses for each of your machines rather than using NAT will help this to some degree. When I first set up my cybercafe I went with a full T1 and a C block of ip addresses and did not place a firewall between the systems and the net.... When doing this though, you need to understand that your machines will be compromised/hacked and will require frequent reinstalls. Generally once or twice a week.... In order to do this I set up an inactive partition with a copy of the standard install made with norton ghost... In order to rebuild the system I made a disk that fdisked and set the partition active, installed the drive image and then fdisked the partition inactive... Took about 20 minutes, but was simple enough any of the staff could do it.

    In order to keep track of your users time, you can try to do it by hand, which requires a lot of administrative overhead from your staff. Or you can go with an automated system. The one that I used at the type was Cybertime. www.cybertime.com may be the url haven't checked it in a while.... If I were doing it now, I would probably write a small website and stick it in a linux box to act as a router... When people go to log in, they have to go to the website and sign in... The linux box receives their request and rewrites the routing tables to allow access to the web. Basically only routing traffic to the box when someone is logged in...

    Other technical considerations... You might want to try setting up some linux boxes, but if your doing games you basically will have to run windows.

    Marketing Considerations:
    I mentioned before "PURE" cybercafes do not make money the food and drinks are what make money... If you want you computers to make money you need to create a community to use the computer systems. Web browsers don't have much of a community, gamers do... As long as your computers are fairly decent, people will come in to play against and with one another and will draw in their friends..... Rather than try to launch your own cybercafe without a support group especially when you are just starting out, instead try to get your computers installed into a business that already has a fairly good customer base... My cybercafe was installed in a Warhammer gaming store, when people were not playing minitures or RPG games they would generally sit down and play on the computers for a while... I'd highly recommend installing the systems in some type of business where people come to socialize rather than trying to start your own place from scratch.

    Games... Games are important.... Diablo, Starcraft and Counter-strike were the games that people came in to play the most.... Basically look for games where teamwork helps out and the games take some time to play. Running your own local servers is also a necessity, which also means that people from the net need to be able to reach those servers, see technical... Generally with 6 gaming systems I made weekly trips to the computer store and bought 2 copies of most multiplayer games... If during the first week the games did well, I would return and buy 4 more copies for the rest of the systems.

    Featured games... Tuesday nights were generally slow, because of this, I made Tuesdays a free night where people could come in and just get on the systems for an hour free... If all computer were full, they either waited an hour for someone to get off or could pay, and bump one of the people playing for free.

    Thursdays, while not extremely slow, I decided to make featured game night.... Where people could come in and play 1 specific game for free. If they wanted to play a different game, or wanted on a system, they could of course pay....

    One other thing... Most people would not sit down to play on a computer unless someone else was already playing... Leaving 1 "free" machine all the time insures that someone will play most of the time... Which will encourage others to sit down and play. When all other computers are in use and a paying customer wants the free computer he gets it.

    To paraphase: Try to establish your systems in a location that already has a community.

    To increase your computer usage, try to get people involved with the games, by giving away some freebee time on specific slow nights and get your customers "hooked"... If you can get them involved you chances of becoming profitable are greatly increased.

    Business Concerns:
    First, if you take my marketing advice and install into a location that already is established, just offering computer use you won't have to worry about quite a few things, which will make your life easier.

    First Salaries and employees... If you place yourself into an established business, it already has employees of it's own who can take money and add time to various user accounts... Basically these tasks are simple and thus minor training is necessary to get up and running... If a system has problems a reboot will generally fix the problem or at most sticking in the disk to recopy the image. For other problems, the employees can call you to come in an fix... and just stick a note on the computer that it is out of order until you can get in to fix it.

    Doing this, you are going to probably have to pay the owner some type of income from the systems...

    My advice is a 30/70 split... You will be shouldering all costs, such as new equipment, internet connection, new games etc. And a 30/70 split seems fair in my opinion.

    Under this situation bill the owner either bi-weekly or monthly. Your user setup times should show how much time was paid for during the week.

    Pricing...

    First I recommend selling blocks of time in advance, don't try to get the customers to pay after they use their time and don't refund unused time...

    For myself I used the following pricing scheme:
    $5/hr
    $20/5 hours
    $20/ day pass... Basically play all day for $20 this differs from the $20/5hours in that the 5 hours are usable anytime... however the $20/day meant that customers had full access for 10 hours. most people generally paid $20 and played 3-6 hours before having to leave... It generally was not abused

    $50/ Week pass Pretty good deal for those users that came in fairly regularly...

    $150/Month pass

    $600/Year Pass

    When I originally started I charged $4/hour but had no internet connection... I was profitable after 3 months(ignoring startup costs) When I added internet I raise prices by $1 hour and it took 5 months building my customer base to the point where the internet connection was paying for itself...

    Calculations for determining price of computers:

    I based by price on the following calculations:

    Computers should be replaced every 2 years: (Note system costs are far less now than they were a couple of years ago...)

    S = System Costs $2500/ 2 = $1250/Year

    The computers take up floorspace... I generally figured this as a 3'x4' aread 12 sq ft. Then determined how much the floorspace cost.

    12 * $12/square foot per year = $144

    Figure out how much each square foot needs to make per year. The business owner might have an actual number. I just multiplied by 5 to account for electricity, maintenance, etc.

    $144 * 5 = $720/Year

    Your costs, figure 2 Hours a week, service and 1 hour a week at computer store 3hours @ $30/hour * 52 weeks

    3 * 30 * 52 = $4680/Year

    Divide that by number of systems (5 pay + 1 free = 5)
    $4680/5 = $936/year

    Internet connection
    $1200/mnt * 12 Months = 14400

    Divided by systems
    14400/5 = $2880/Year

    Add up costs
    $1250 System
    $ 720 Floorspace
    $ 936 Technical support
    $2880 Internet connection

    $5786/Year

    Divide by your percentage .7 since you also have to pay the owner 30% of your gross for running the store and such

    5786 / .7 = $8266 Year

    So we have to make $8266 year just to pay for the machines

    Number of estimated hours in use per week 30
    number of weeks 52
    30*52 = 1560 hours/year

    Our price per hours ends up being
    $5.29 / hour

    I charged a little less since I was just guesstimating in the beginning, luckily I was close to actual costs...

    In the end, I ended up closing the cafe because the owner stopped paying me. He had outside bills and was using my income in order to pay those bills...

    At the end of 2 years the machines were bringing in around $800/month each which while making a profit, I was spending about $200/month in new games per each machine and thus was only making a small profit per month.

    Hope that helps

    • the best route for security/tamper proofing is to set the workstations to re-ghost on each reboot from a standard configuration. that way a user can do whatever he wants for the time he pays for, but as soon as his time runs out and he reboots, all changes are history and the fresh canned install is restored. easy everything does this all across europe - great business.

      • JWZ has some interesting stuff written about this sort of thing. He's got Linux-based internet terminals at the club he runs in San Francisco. The information he's got on the web are for Linux systems, of course, but some of the basic concepts should be applicable to Windows-based game stations as well.

        http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/src/kiosk/ [dnalounge.com]

        • Actually this code doesn't do much to help. Jamie's code merely handles running a kiosk and auto setting up the system.. In a cybercafe scenerio you have to track the time used and log out users automatically... If merely web browsing, it's simple enough to do with a Linux system, but windows is far harder to deal with since as a single user system you have no way to keep users from having access to any information on the computer system.

  • There's a guy my small town in Central Oregon that's offering a guide to starting/running one. Take it with a grain of salt, however, as I don't think he does much business there:

    His Guide [internetcafeguide.com]
    His Cafe [cafeinternet-bend.com]

  • Considered getting 20-30 identical PC's, networking them together with a fat pipe out to the net, and letting people game to their hearts content for $X per hour. Then I got to thinking about security, and punks getting out of line when someone takes them to school in the latest FPS. I don't want to be a replacement parent to a bunch of kids, nor do I want to be a truant officer, wondering why my best customers aren't in school.

    Then I considered the parents themselves....the people who would be there open to close, dumping their grocery and rent money on Evercrack instead of providing for their families (trust me, video game addiction, while isolated, is real!) I think that would cause me a lot of guilt....bartenders I have known have commented on this...taking money to feed an addiction when they know that other people NEED that money far more than the drinker...I digress....

    While 95% of the business would probably fun and educational, the other 5% could be a serious downer to the whole thing. My $0.02 only...
  • One of the points mention was opening only outside normal working hours in the evenings.

    However, from experience (6 years working in a cybercafe) people visiting Cyber Cafes fit into neat groups:

    * Students. - Email (LOTS of Hotmail) mostly in an afternoon after college before pubs.
    * Job Seekers. - Email/JobSites. Again, daytime users mostly.
    * Travelers. - People all over the world keeping in touch via Hotmail mostly. They don't know the area, so are more likely to act on impulse while doing other things (Like shopping) and seeing you open. (But will revisit once they know about you)
    * Kids. - Chat and trying to look at p0rn. Weekends and holidays when their parents want them out the way for a while.
    * Shifty Guys Looking for P0rn. - Im not joking!
    * Old People Contacting Grandchildren. - Daytime users once more. And require help more then others. But, once they get into it, if you help them. They will come back alot.

    Now, this was in a (Large) town, not a city. So the dynamic might change. In London, I found they all night Cyber Cafe VERY handy when discovering Id missed the last tube and wanted to get online anyway and it was busy (Tho it was only a pound for 11pm till 7am!)
  • Actually, OpenBSD 3.1 with KDE 3.0 is felt much
    easier to use than Windows by Windows users.
    I have made this experience oftenly the last few
    days, when I finished compiling (on a 3.1-current
    system actually ;)
    StarCraft ought to run under Wine on OpenBSD, too,
    and since it is a Win95/P-90/16MB game, it probably
    will even run smoothly.
    Sound isn't a problem either.
    • StarCraft runs like shit on a p133 with 64MB and NT4.0. I don't see how it will run great on a 16MB p90 with Win95.
      • You know the difference between NT 4 and Win 95,
        do you?

        I did run Starcraft Multiplayer (IPX) on a P-133
        with 16 MB RAM and Win95. It worked fine.
        (Though I had no sound at this time)

        And with regards to wine, there is a howto saying
        some 1999er release is said to be better than the
        new, although I don't know with regards to 2002er
        wine and rewind versions.
    • on Mandrake Linux 8.1 with the latest WINE compiles, Starcraft runs VERY slow and VERY choppy. sound is easily fixed by using the native dsound.dll from DirectX 7 or 8, but the video is still painfully slow.

      i would expect Starcraft would run slow on most WINE configurations, but i'm still experimenting with WINE on my machine. i haven't found very many games working, much less playing properly. (though i have gotten The Playa to play video - without sound - rather smoothly...)
  • OK, so I have never even been to an internet cafe, but I think this idea might work.

    Offer a back room for hire. This would be an isolated lan (optionally connected) with about 12-20 lan points dotted around the room and a matching number of desks and chairs.

    You could hire it out for training courses, lan parties, or small user group meetings. If you had some spare machines, you could even run some basic courses yourself.

    You could also use it to run $FRAGFEST tournaments for your regular gamers, offering free 'net time as prizes. (What rabid gamer wouldn't LOVE the chance to frag for bandwidth?)

    During the off hours, leave it connected and let people bring in their laptops and do their research, correspondence or whatever.
  • What kind of system should I run? Obviously most games are only going to run on windows, (and wine is a bitch, and imagine the bitchiness multiplied out against X machines), but I don't want to buy windows licenses.

    Dear slashdot. I don't want to steal, but I may have to. Please help me justify my theft!

    This person appears to have done absolutely no research, yet wants to set up a business. They say 50% of all businesses fail? Well, here's one for that half...

    - A.P.
    • you have said
      >>>
      Dear slashdot. I don't want to steal, but I may have to. Please help me justify my theft!
      >>>

      Unfortunatly you are wrong. I have no reason to steal, nor would I ever want to for any reason. I am just interested in a cheap way to acquire the software required to run the games people want to play. Unfortunatly this is an operating system I would rather not support, and therefore, I would rather relieve those that have Win98SE which have come with their computer, but they use some other operating system instead. And this is only one way in which i can (legally? that was the question) acqure this software, without supporting the people who make it.

      I wrote
      >>>
      What kind of system should I run? Obviously most games are only going to run on windows, (and wine is a bitch, and imagine the bitchiness multiplied out against X machines), but I don't want to buy windows licenses (and I also don't want to pirate software) so where can I pick up some second hand windows 98SE licenses for a small cost? Would it be legal, if I was to advertise I will pay $20 for your win98SE license? Or would I be better off buying X licenses for Micro$oft Super Advanced Multigaming iExecution eServer Special Edition?
      >>>

      Thanks for your relativly constructive input on this matter, but it really isn't that much of a problem at this point ^_^

      ioquatix
  • Yet you completely overlook the computer/network security side of things. Why on earth would you need a bouncer in an Internet cafe? Wouldn't you rather concern yourself with more important shit, such as people using your computers to launch relatively anonymous attacks on other parts of the Internet? What about people installing software without your approval? How will you deal with users who know more about your computers and operating systems than you do? What if they successfully access the machine that has the business' financial information on it? (Since you're so naiive, I'm guessing you'd network that machine, too.) Would you firewall anything? Would you encrypt anything?

    The more I read this Ask Slashdot, the sadder I become. I must go.

    - A.P.
    • You, my friend, are starting to get on my nerves. I completely disregard this aspect because I have no problem providing and setting up the security required at this kind of place.

      Please don't lecture me on things you clearly do not understand. It does not make me respect you any more that you know some random technical jargon.

      And yes, the more you read Ask Slashdot, the sadder, you become. But are you considering that you actually started out completly sad beforehand?

      I am sorry you feel this way, it truely does sadden me that you can be so rash and attack me. I am only trying to set something up for a community that needs it.

      Thanks for bringing up this issue however.

      ioquatix

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