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The Internet

Making an Independent Web Site? 484

KinsmanCa asks: "Lately I've been thinking of opening a website - but looking over what web hosts provide, I don't like the idea of having a bandwith limit of so many gigabtyes per month, or having to be mindful of what the provider considers community standards. How can I create a website that's as independent as possible? By which I mean, pay as few bills to as few people as possible, and have to answer to nobody but the law itself as far as my content goes? Assume that I'm willing to pay a lot as far as hardware or initial setup costs go. How much autonomy can a regular person get on the Internet?"
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Making an Independent Web Site?

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  • by seinman ( 463076 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @05:33PM (#3422038) Homepage Journal
    Just get a server, T3, and host it yourself.
  • by CJayC ( 74131 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @05:38PM (#3422073) Homepage
    It sounds like you're looking for a great new car, regardless of price, that has no or fixed fuel costs no matter how much you drive it. You're not going to find one. You can't have a web site without some kind of bandwidth limitation, be it physical or financial.

    Bandwidth is the primary cost of every web host on the Internet. The backbone providers allow a specific amount of bandwidth for a specific price, and resellers carve up that bandwidth for sale to you (or to other resellers) at smaller prices for smaller amounts of data transfer.

    As you might imagine, it's usually a good idea to avoid any provider who promises "Unlimited Bandwidth". They're lying. Anyone who says that really means, "Unlimited Bandwidth, Unless You Use More Than We Think You Should".
  • by BitterOak ( 537666 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @05:45PM (#3422099)
    Just get a server, T3, and host it yourself.

    I don't see how that solves the problem of potential content control. The T3 cable has to be connected to an ISP at the other end. And that ISP is just as likely to have content "standards" as any other. Just because you're using a T3 line instead of a cable or telephone modem doesn't mean you don't have to deal with an ISP. It would solve the bandwidth problem as T3's have a fixed, well-defined bandwidth with no total monthly limit on gigabytes, but there still might be content standards.

  • by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @05:48PM (#3422114) Homepage Journal
    Do you think a T3 connection is some kind constitutional right? Guess again. People lose their connections all the time, just because somebody objects to how they use it. Slashdotters have seen that happen to interesting sites, like that Tawainese web site that tried to stream movies for a dollar s how. We've also caused it to happen, when we complain about servers with with open mail relays or other spam-friendly features.

    I used to be very optimistic about the role of the internet in combatting censorship. I was naive and silly. The internet resists goverment censorship, because it's difficult to enforce laws and regulations against such a decentralized entity. But as long as the key networks are owned by a few media monopolies, you will play by their rules, or your plug will be pulled.

  • Re:Netmar (Score:2, Insightful)

    by pclinger ( 114364 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @05:53PM (#3422142) Homepage Journal
    "It's $10 a month for 100 megs, no bandwidth limits (within reason)"

    So therefore there is a limit. I highly recommend staying away from any company that says "unlimited bandwidth" -- because its BS. You will get charged for the bandwidth, or kicked out of their service. Anyone who has delt with a lot of hosting companies will know this is true.
  • by Arandir ( 19206 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @05:55PM (#3422149) Homepage Journal
    As you might imagine, it's usually a good idea to avoid any provider who promises "Unlimited Bandwidth"

    Unlimited bandwidth, but everyone else on the service trying to get the same unlimited bandwidth acts as a pretty effective throttle.
  • Freenet. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by alphaseven ( 540122 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @06:01PM (#3422173)
    Want no bandwidth limit, no fees, no hassles on "community standards"? Just upload your page to Freenet [freenetproject.org]. And it's anonymous so you won't even have to answer to the law. Sure it's a painfully slow to access most pages, but what do you want for free?
  • Colocation (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MalusCaelestis ( 172079 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @06:03PM (#3422185) Homepage

    Though mentioned several times before, I feel that no one mentioned the most important aspect of colocation: redundant connections. T1/T3 lines probably won't fail, but there's still the chance, and if they do, you're screwed for however long it takes the phone company to fix the problem (and if you've ever tried to get a Baby Bell to fix something, you'll know why this will be a problem).

    A redundant connection will keep your site up and running even if the primary connection fails. Ideally, the redundant connection should be able to handle 50% of peak capacity and should be leased from a different provider than the primary line (so that an entire company outage won't shut down both lines).

    Now, you CAN get redundant lines into your house, but it won't be cheap and you'll end up paying for a redundant connection that you may never use. Colocators already have redundant connections set up, which means you won't have to worry about any of this. You may have to pay a dollar amount per Gibibyte of throughput over a certain amount, but this is unavoidable when using anyone else as a host. Just be sure to agree on a deal that will provide you enough base bandwidth so that you won't wind up paying thousands of dollars in excess bandwidth fees.

    With the right colocator and the right agreement, you'll end up getting the right amount of allotted bandwidth and you won't have to bother yourself with all the things that make hosting your site from home troublesome.

  • by smack_attack ( 171144 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @06:20PM (#3422235) Homepage
    Adult hosts are used to getting calls about anything from trademark infringement to libel. They know the rules and when to call BS on a C&D letter.

    I work for one myself (obligatory NationalNet link [natnet.com]) but you can find your own if you need at many review sites [tophosts.com]. Good luck!
  • by aozilla ( 133143 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @06:45PM (#3422304) Homepage

    Aside from breaking copyrights, child porn is the only other deal-killer I can think of if you choose a provider who already sells bandwidth to extreme fetish porn sites.

    Spam. You'd probably have a harder time finding a host for a spam site than any other, including child porn.

  • by cybermage ( 112274 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @08:56PM (#3422738) Homepage Journal
    Get your DNS and mail service from one provider and web hosting from two others. Many providers will squirm at not getting everything, but tough.

    If you keep your mail seperate from your website, you should avoid mail interruptions if a web hosting provider pulls your site.

    By keeping your DNS seperate, you can control which IP requests for your site get sent to. Make sure you DNS zone file records expire frequently so that a change in IP is propogated quickly. If your provider will let you manage the DNS, even better.

    Setup a scheme to keep your site backed up. Running the site in two locations, plus maintaining a backup would be ideal.

    Here's how it would work: If one provider pulls your site, you change your DNS to the backup provider and secure a new backup provider. Unless your being persecuted by someone with serious clue, you can shuttle your site around indefinitely with only brief interruptions.

    Of course, as someone else has suggested, consider off-shore hosting. You can have a .com anywhere. Even if the country is WIPO friendly, you'll still get more delay in anyone acting against your site.

    One last thing: Anyone who wants your site down bad enough, may be able to simply get the domain pulled if you use a domestic registrar. Consider going off-shore with that as well.

    So, my advice is this: Split up services; Maintain backups; Consider off-shore hosting; And consider off-shore registration. In general terms, don't keep your eggs all in one basket and hide the baskets.
  • My indie server (Score:2, Insightful)

    by KalvinB ( 205500 ) on Saturday April 27, 2002 @10:05PM (#3422968) Homepage
    I run my server out of house for $70 which includes a dedicated 256K DSL line which gives me 60GB a month transfer max. $30 goes to my phone company and $40 to my ISP. I was running my server on a 200Mhz Pentium with Win2K and Apache and pulled off 1 million page views in a single month. I use a router to allow the rest of the computers share the connection with the server running on one.


    www.dnsmadeeasy.com handles my domain name. I've since upgraded my PC but for just a hobby site, my original set up will work fine for you. I needed to upgrade simply for more disk space and because I'm not just running a web-site. I also do some indie game development and occassionally test my MMORPG servers on it.


    If it's just a hobby site there's no need to spend a large amount of money. It took a year to get a 1 million page view month. I currently do around 800-900 unique IPs a day on my 256K line. Until you get to at least that level, there's no need to even consider putting down a large amount of money for your site. I've considered upping my bandwidth but at this point it isn't needed.


    Ben

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 27, 2002 @10:10PM (#3422988)
    Just look up the hosts for some of the most extremely unpopular and controversal sites out there, like www.godhatesfags.com [godhatesfags.com] or www.freespirits.org [freespirits.org] . You can bet your life people have been trying very hard to shut these sites down, but they're still up. So whatever ISP hosts them must not only believe firmly in free speech matters, but also have the legal horsepower to fight the prudes.
  • Get on the phone. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by m_evanchik ( 398143 ) <michel_evanchikATevanchik.net> on Saturday April 27, 2002 @11:06PM (#3423136) Homepage
    The cardinal rule of finding a web hoster is to make sure that you can CALL THEM ON THE PHONE.

    If you can only get in touch via email, you will find yourself up the creek when something goes wrong.

    Many of your cheaper hosters don't offer phone support, and it is indicative of an unprofessional operation. It means they either don't speak English, are a very small shop without adequate resources, or know that their service stinks and just don't want to be bothered by the large numbers of irate customers.

    You may pay a little extra to know you can speak to an actual human being, but even if you never need the phone call, its availability is the first good indicator that someone is on the up and up.

    Also, calling them is a great time to make sure your site won't be objectionable for them to host.
  • Re:bandwidth fees (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MattW ( 97290 ) <matt@ender.com> on Sunday April 28, 2002 @10:45AM (#3424495) Homepage
    The real point is that the pay-by-the-Gig plans are often overpriced. For example, rackspace, that stalwart Slashdot advertiser, charges $980/mo for 400G xfer, (first 30G free with your box). That works out to be 154Kbps. Right now, I'm colocated with a larger tier-1 provider, getting a full rack and a 100Mbp/s connection for $600/mo. I can average 1Mbp/s without paying an extra dime -- so for only 2/3 of the rackspace BANDWIDTH charge, I can get almost 7x the bandwidth.

    So, of course you pay for bandwidth. But the question is: will you overpay for bandwidth? On a fixed Gb xfer plan, you may well be.

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