System Administrators - College or Career? 1092
Chicks_Hate_Me asks: "I'm a Senior in High School right now and I'm graduating soon (hopefully!) and I was wondering what the hell I should do? My teachers are all telling me I should go to college, but they don't know much about computers so they automatically assume that I wan't to be a programmer or an engineer. I want to be neither, in fact, I want to become a System Administrator. Is college really the best option? Or should I concentrate on getting certification, experience, and taking a few junior college classes on the side? I've already gotten a few job consultancy offers in the area. What has the experience been for any of you out in the tech industry? For you that went to college, did it truly help? And for you that didn't go to college, has it been harder for you to find a job? Also, if you believe that I should go to college, what should I major in? But if you think I shouldn't, what certifications would hold valuable in the future, and what kind of job positions should I take now?" The never ending question. College is a valuable experience for most, but it's also expensive and time consuming. Might that time be better spent in the job market now rather than later (current conditions notwithstanding)?
System Administrator (Score:4, Interesting)
college unnecessary these days (Score:2, Interesting)
High tech companies, especially smaller ones, don't pay much attention to non-job-related stuff. If you can do the job and get along with people, you don't need a diploma or degree to prove it any more.
On the other hand, if you were going into a more conservative field like finance or law, obviously you have to have school to get an interview anywhere. But when I was interviewing people for a system administrator job here, I asked (for example) how they would set up sendmail so it wouldn't relay messages, and questions like that.
Go to College (Score:2, Interesting)
- more intelligent
- more hard working
- climbing the career ladder much faster
Now's the opportunity - jump in and learn all you can while you still can.
Re:Go to college (Score:3, Interesting)
If you can't spell "want" (Score:2, Interesting)
-_Quinn
College is indispensable - look at Spielburg (Score:3, Interesting)
Having a college degree is important enough that even Steven Spielburg [bbc.co.uk] has put in nights and weekends just to complete his degree this spring, 33 years after dropping out.
AnhZone
well (Score:2, Interesting)
I was you 4 years ago
and I chose the non-college path
and let me tell you I wish I hadn't
long story and several certs later, I have MCSE/A+/Network+ and CompUSA won't even call me back for a shitty tech job fixing their piece of shit compaqs.. i'm going for a ccna shortly which might help, but in teh areas i've lived in (indy/cinci) the IT recession has hit hard.. i'm 22 and a 19 web dev friend of mine pulling $50k/yr w/o a degree (mcse/a+/net+) got fired several times becuase of budget cutting (and the fact he was the youngest)
i have been in and out of college several times and have a few hours, if i had the money i would go back immediately, a degree in *anything* is better than none at all
and you might want to reconsider IT as it continues to get worse ("outsourcing" all our jobs to "cut costs")
having a huge salary is great, but only if you're around long enough to collect it
Re:The voice of experience.... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm probably in a similar situation myself in many ways. I went to a local community college for a few years (part-time, working towards an Associates degress) before getting completely burnt out on it and dropping out of the program.
I've been working in the computer industry ever since, starting out with PC technician and sales type jobs and working my way up to a decent job in I.T./systems administration today.
To this day, I still believe in many ways, college is a big ripoff. You pay out huge sums of money to get a random mix of good, bad and useless teaching, and when it's all said and done, the need to pay back that student loan is guaranteed but a good paying job isn't.
On the other hand, reality and perception are two completely different things, and as long as the "work world" believes in the perception that a college degree means a better employee - you're at a disadvantage without one.
I've always been stubborn, so I insist on plowing ahead without going back to school. (I'm still doing plenty of learning, but on my own as opposed to in a classroom.) Nonethless, do I recommend this to anyone else? No, not really - unless you're just as stubborn about school as I am. I spent a long time struggling to get by and trying like crazy to get a good career job. I was turned down by quite a few places I'd really like to have worked at - and I'm sure the lack of the degree was the primary reason. (I definitely had the skills they required, and could do the job well for them.)
This is the SAME situation I faced. (Score:3, Interesting)
I joined the military for the smallest amount of time that I could (2 years 19 Weeks), although that may not be in your options. Because of that, (I did non-computer related things in the military) I gained people skills, leadership, and all of the other things the military teaches you. I also got a six pack stomach, and a nice chest, and ladies dig that. I work now as a sysadmin, and go to school part time. Make good money (35k), get paid even more to go to school through the GI Bill (around 3k per semester) And I am only 22!
If you live in Illinois, Florida, or Texas, I believe, You get to go to a public school free, but you still reap the GI Bill Benifits.
I did simple math before I joined. 2 years making dirt pay,but when you add in what you will recieve from schooling, it makes good sense
My easy Math
where I could find the time to hone my system skills on my own (I did combat related jobs in the Army) and I did some side consulting work while I was in. You can even take CLEP tests for Free as well as other major tests (retake the ACT, SAT, ASE)
Complete opposite experience for me (Score:2, Interesting)
After two years of college, I felt like I really hadn't gotten anything out of it. On top of that, I hated college. I can not express enough how unhappy I was there. From things like getting a C in programming class for poor attendance even though I aced every quiz and test, to the asinine rhetoric most college students are filled with, I hated it. Why spend an entire school term learning what you could learn in two weeks on your own with a book?
Example: In an introductory unix class, which, like other classes, I was not allowed to skip or challenge, the professor showed us X, using the fvwm window manager, which he said "Makes it look sort of like Windows."
One enterprising young student in the front row raised his hand, and said "I think you mean fvwm95, which tries to emulate the Windows95 appearance, whereas this is regular fvwm blah blah blah" SHUT THE FUCK UP, THE PROFESSOR KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE.
Engineering classes are full of horrible people like this. Eager to show off how much they know, possibly in the hopes that the professor will be impressed and say "Well, administering the HPUX systems is usually reserved for the grad students, but I think you're ready early..." and then he can brag to all his little pals at the next LUG meeting or something.
The downside is that once you get out into the real world and look for a job, most places are not going to take you that seriously if you don't have a degree. If you get an interview, and the interviewer happens to be a techie himself, and he can quiz you on your knowledge, then you're in luck. But in most cases, it's just some know-nothing with an MBA who has know way of verifying whether or not you actually know your stuff. All he has to go on is whether or not you have a degree.
For some reason, these people have not yet figured out that having a degree doesn't actually mean anything. I've met people with computer science degrees who don't know how to change the IP address on a windows system. I've met people who have four-year programming degrees who can't code with shit in Visual BASIC.
What it all comes down to is: If you know what you want to do and you can learn it on your own and you don't like being surrounded by your asinine peers, college is going to be a nightmare hell ride. But if you want to get a job, your chances are greatly increased by having a degree.
Re:Learn how to Learn Your Trade in College (Score:3, Interesting)
I can talk to candidates about their Discrete Structures or Systems Programming classes and relate pretty well.
System Admin != Computer Science or EE
It still haunts me. (Score:1, Interesting)
However, not finishing college has been something that has haunted me since the day I walked off that campus.
College if... (Score:2, Interesting)
I think a lot of people have given good reasons to go to college, including opportunity to continue exploring options and gain "a piece of paper" that adds mobility. I agree with them.
That said however, don't go to college for the piece of paper and don't go at all if you are going to a school that doesn't challenge or interest you. Yes, the piece of paper will help, and college can be an incredible experience. Yet I think the value of the college experience can be drastically overrated as well. I think learning how to do something useful is the most important thing of all, and that requires a few years of study inside or outside of school. A nonsense college degree that was easy to get won't help you that much.
Also, taking a year or two off from school can be a fabulous experience. Many schools recommend it (Harvard for instance). You could work for a few years and see if the life suits you, and then decide to pursue a college degree.
A caveat: pursuing college studies more than a year or two late is certainly possible, but a very different experience. Also, if someone (such as your parents) are willing to pay for college now, they might not be willing to much later.
I've vote the college route (Score:1, Interesting)
To look at it from a System Administrator's perspective, I can look to my company's Sysadmin. His college degree is in Engineering, and only recently went into System/Network Administration. At least once a week I get something from him wishing he had a broader computer knowledge, with some programming and just the ideas that one is enstilled with in a college environment. There is a lot that isn't picked up from certification tests, such as thinking methods, broad problem solving experience, and a general knowledge of the field.
Although I'd say it's possible to get by without a college education as a Sysadmin, I'd say that it would impede your career track more then it would help it to jump straight into the industry. It truly comes down to whether or not you want to add a 4 year degree to your resume, as well as all the extra experience gained from it. Two candidates who are equally impressive in the interview room, if one doesn't have a 4 year degree while the other does, 99% of the time the individual with the degree will be hired over the other. Putting more on your resume in this case is a good thing.
Go to College for College (not work) (Score:2, Interesting)
A lot of people have talked about upstart kids who skip college and get jobs who don't work out because of bad attitudes. I've seen these types myself, who think they are smarter than everyone else (even if they are), and they truly are an annoying breed. However, the college degree (or rather lack thereof) is a symptom of that, not a cause. Kids who think they know everything don't want to go to school and have someone tell them they don't.
When I left college I ended up doing contracting/consulting and the entire time no one cared whether I had a degree. I started working in '97, so the market may have helped this. Now I work at a small private college. But if I had continued on my consultant track I could have continued to make lots of money in a fast pace career.
I've always wondered whether or not my lack of degree will rear it's ugly head and screw me up. However, since I'm not interested in going very far from my sysadmin roots, and would not want a purely management job, it _may_ never be a problem. But I'm also the type of person who has no problem giving up a little bit of money for a good job. If you want to be someone who makes the big bucks, corporate climb, you probably want a college degree with one of those fancy names on it.
So, what I'm saying is I left college and never looked back, and it hasn't caused me any problems yet. I don't feel as though it 'jump started' my career by starting earlier. That wasn't why I left either. As much as you may feel as though the world is rushing by while you are in college, it really isn't.
I advocate going to college. I remember very fondly my college years (well, 1.5), and most of my long term friends I made there. Living with a bunch of people your age day in and day out gives you social outlets you won't have when you are in the work place. College gives you more freedom than you ever had, and gives you more free time than you are likely to ever have again.
In college you will have 90% of all the philosophical discussions that you will have in your life time.
In college you will drink 50% of all the alcohol you will ever drink in your life time.
In college you will do 80% of all the drugs you will ever do in your life time.
In college you will do 70% of all the things you will in the future tell stories about.
In college you will do 60% of all the things you regret in your life time.
In college you will sleep with 70% of all the women and/or men you will in your lifetime.
In college you will do 80% of all the kinky sex acts you will in your lifetime.
So, job or no, go to college, at least for a little while.
go to college, a good one (Score:3, Interesting)
Good writing is critical. Go to college, and not a technical two-year college, but a traditional four-year university program. Don't be afraid to go to a college that has a "common core" requirement, or something similar. Reading Plato and Weber will not help you be a better systems administrator, but writing about Plato and Weber and having access to a real professor who can actually give you helpful information about how to improve your writing is an invaluable experience.
When employers talk about "interpersonal skills" or a "people person," they mean exactly two things:
If you have a full command of the English language, PHBs eat that up. I've found that there are three things that management can't get enough of:
Point (3) is where the writing comes in. It is absolutely critical, and a simple spellcheck/grammar check/automated thesaurus will not improve your communication.
In addition to communication skills, you'll need the right attitude to be a successful sysadmin. Basically, the way to achieve this attitude is to remember that you're not the reason the company is there: your role is a facilitator. You don't drive the business - you ensure the business runs smoothly. If your boss asks you to do some routine technical support, don't respond that that sort of thing is "below" you. If the CEO's secretary doesn't understand some setting in her email program, explain it to her, briefly and sans holier-than-thou attitude.
However, if you have ideas on how to improve efficiency, share them immediately. In fact, I would recommend that you occasionally visit other parts of your company to see if they need any help. I've noted this strange phenomenon: some departments may not have a real technical person working for them. They'll have the general technical support staff which is limited to ensuring PCs run smoothly. This department will then continue receiving new tasks to do routinely, and, since they don't have a technical person with them, won't figure out that certain jobs can be automated. I'm talking about things like printing out reports from the unix server to type the data into excel; cutting and pasting data from excel into an editor to reformat it for some database app; scanning through hundreds of text documents by eye, in combination with word's search features because they don't know how to use grep from the command line. Every large company has lots of trivial things like this that can be automated, and you should search for them, because non-technical people won't realize these tasks can be automated.
Re:Go to college (Score:3, Interesting)
That's exactly my point for a lot off people college is just a big party. After you spend some time in the work force you know what you need to get out of college and you put more effort into your education thereby getting more out of it.