Which IT Certifications for Specific IT Jobs? 380
outlander78 asks: "There have been several questions posted recently (Landing a job, College or Career? to list a few) discussing education and job searching. I have just completed a BSc Computer Science, and have 2 years of co-op experience. This is apparently not enough, as I have yet to get a single interview, despite many carefully written letters and resume submissions to job postings. I read here that a degree with certifications was a good combination, so now I need to know - which certifications are best for job seekers? Whether I work as programmer, sys admin or something else isn't an issue, since I need any job at this point, and enjoy most computer-related jobs - please, suggest whatever certifications you are hiring for or were hired because of."
The best place to start... (Score:2, Interesting)
1) Look at your (2 yrs coop) experience and what products/technologies you learned and/or liked.
2) Find a certification exam or exam "track" based upon those products/techs and get started.
For me to become an design level enterprise infrastructure consultant and instructor for the MS platform, it was appropriate to get my MCSE and MCT certs. I also find that some people do not need formal class training; self study can suffice (books, etc).
Oracle? J2EE? (Score:2, Interesting)
I landed a job before I finished Polytech, (when I was an Electronics Tech), I then managaed to get a low level Linux/NT admin role for a small company. Moving on from there has been the hard part. I have done Linux cert, and have started a BSc and found it really hard to get the position I am about to move into. This was gained by knowing people on the inside.
From personal experience Oracle is probably the best industry cert in terms of "employability". I can't say what the certification is like I have never done it.
On another note a friend was having a similar problem just recently. Finished degree, and couldn't get a job. He was on a benefit and the NZ Govt. paid for his J2EE cert that he did while on the benefit. Landed a job not long after.
If you want a job do the one with the most industry cred and later do the one you enjoy. Please the employer to get the foot in, then work towards doing what you enjoy.
IT Certifications are the Ponzi schemes of today (Score:1, Interesting)
Sitting in a classroom, no mater how hands on, doesn't give you problem solving expereince. Save your money.
Certificates not the answer... (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think certificates early in one's career are that beneficial since it starts looking like you are just too obviously trying to make up for lack of real-world experience by overloading your resume with these certificates. Certificates, in my opinion, are good ways for senior practicioners (i.e. those over 25
Also, some people may use certificates to help with transitioning from a different career into tech (since going back to school is not an option).
My opinion: don't worry about the certificate issue and start doing a broader search for entry level tech positions.
** Also, it is hard for anyone to know WHY you didn't get an interview if we don't know exactly what your resume and cover letter contain and for what position you applied. You may just have a goofy sounding cover letter or weak resume.
Worse comes to worse, you can always do tech sales (I guarantee you can get a job there) -- man that phone boy!!!
Re:It's a buyers market right now ... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll vouch for that. If I was hiring, I'd be looking for experience, certs be damned.
let's put it this way. if you even GET a job in the IT industry right now, you'll be damn lucky with all the bloodletting that happened last year. the best thing you can do right now is get an IT job anywhere, doing anything. if your code-fu skills are strong enough, this will appear doing your regular job duties of tech support/sys admin/dba/et cetera. You can then use those skills to leverage your way into a lead position in the department which you can then use to leverage yourself into another department where you really want to be.
besides, starting at ground zero of tech support should teach you some empathy of what techs go thru. thank god I don't do that no more.
with a wife and mortgage, I'm just happy to have a decent paying steady job working for a government IT department. that 's the kind of job you should be looking for, one that pays the bills.
certs can be helpful--but don't blow too much $! (Score:4, Interesting)
1)the vendor certifications (Microsoft, Oracle, etc) have some marketability, but the courses and related material are overpriced. So are the predictions of median incomes that certified people enjoy.
2)it is impossible for certifications to measure the ability to program, to think creatively or to solve problems. However, they do measure in a rough way one's familiarity with an application/OS's mechanisms to accomplish tasks.
3)Aside from Microsoft, Oracle and Cisco, employers have usually never heard of
the certification you have.
4) Employers are impressed about certifications when it is hard to measure competence. It is a third-party objective criteria. What impresses them is that you took the initiative, that you had to study for some test. That's different from just sitting at a seminar and passively absorbing information.
5). Despite what people say, "paper certifications" and "paper mills" are not worthless. The problem with IT institutes is that no training program can cover the variety of problems and administrative functions that one encounters on the job. On the other hand, they do a good job of exposing you to some of the basic tasks.
6)The problem with "paper certifications" (especially vendor-sponsored ones) is that to pass them you need to learn skills specific to the application or OS. That puts the onus of chasing after skills (and paying for them) entirely on the job seeker. And surely by the time you pass one certification, you'll hear about another one that is the next best thing. You need to ask yourself, "why I am spending time immersing myself in vendor-specific information when I should be learning more general things: protocols, network architecture and programming theory and algorithms.
7)Certifications do matter in my own field: technical writing and training. They indicate some familiarity with a particular domain of learning.
8)If you seek a certification, seek it only because you find the subject in and of itself to be interesting. I sought the LPI 1 certification [lpi.org] because I needed to know these concepts anyway and the certification provided a structure and path for learning the material. Right now, I am pursuing another certification, the Master CIW Administrator [ciwcertified.com]
certification. I'm not sure employers will even know what this certification is, but I know that the subjects on the certifications: network security, ip6 and unix/windows interoperability are things I would be learning anyway.
9)If you do seek certification, don't spend more than $100 on study material. There are hundreds of sites and forums that provide good study guides and practice tests for free. You'll also enjoy sharing in the learning and studying experience. My favorite is Exam Notes [examnotes.net]
Re:It's a buyers market right now ... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've never met anyone that I believe could pass it, and I certainly couldn't. Even the CCNA wasn't a joke(like the MCSE exams). I'm scared of the CCNP.
Re:It's a buyers market right now ... AGREED (Score:3, Interesting)
But asking "what certs will help?" Shows one thing - you don't.
That is harsh. I know. I from the other end of 20+ years of experience, with no degree, no certs AND DO NOT WANT THEM.
All certs prove is that you can read a manual and type answers. You too could be MENSA, same entrance exam, and same benfits (none).
The only proof is showing your skills, that means taking over the interview controling thier attention, showing you have some thing to provide.
But the orginal writer said that he got a CS degree and can not code, then what good is it? Why not have history degree instead? Gives you the same advange, in the tech world.
Remember, tech breaks down to operators and designers.
If you can not code, design a database (500+ tables) or build a network (1000+ seats in multiple locations) then you are an operator.
There is a lot of operators out there. That is what is a buyers market.
Linux Certs (Score:2, Interesting)
Flood of the lesser experienced (Score:2, Interesting)
In terms of certifications, it depends on who's doing the hiring. 'Techno-savvy' managers are likely to outright dismiss certifications and look at experience above all else (including education). Managers who are less technically inclined are the ones who are impressed by certifications and education.
And lastly for experience, in my father's example he was looking for around five years experience minimum... and out of the hundreds who applied, only 6 had that kind of experience... It's quite the buyer's market right now, and experience can go a -long- way.
It's not you bro ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Contrast that to when I entered college (1997-98ish) and you can see we've slipped quite a bit -- companies were *soo* desperate for CS people that they would *pay your last year of college*. A buddy of mine graduated in 1997 as a CS/EE dbl and got picked up for 80k/yr by Sun to start. Now a *great* job is 45/yr.
The good news is it will pick up soon enuf.
another obvious point (Score:2, Interesting)
It's who you know and how you communicate (Score:2, Interesting)
Typically, I've switched jobs or applied for new ones based on who I know at the new job, or what I know about them. The biggest thing you can do for yourself is to identify _where_ you want to work -- and then do your research. Do you know anybody who works there -- or have friends of friends who work there -- who can tell you more about the place, including what positions are open, what skills they need? I identified an employer I wanted to work for based on their reputation in the community, and then started asking questions. When I discovered they needed people with PHP experience, I taught myself PHP and applied -- and got the job.
In another instance, with a freelance job, I knew somebody tangentially related to a department that needed some webwork done on contract -- and she put in a word for me. It was my communication skills, in the end, that got me the job.
While your resume may shine, and you've got it plastered all over town, people still like to go with known variables -- so you'll need to circulate, and get to know people (in case you don't already
Go to Toastmasters, and participate. Or find somebody who can coach you through some interviews -- chances are there's a job service in your area with whom you can sign up that could help you.
Don't expect to get a job on your skills and talent alone. A workplace isn't just a computer -- it's people, and they need to know that they can communicate with you, and vice versa, before they hire you. Programmers do not work in isolated environments anymore.
Go Freelance... (Score:2, Interesting)
I though fsck it, go freelance. So I set myself up as a "company" and worked freelance doing Internet work for about 18 months and built myself up a large client portfolio. Eventually I though I'd take a crack at the job market again. With my freelance experience (which I'm told looks good because it proves you can do stuff ON YOUR OWN) I landed an interview within a week of trying and got the job.
Two years on I'm my job title is "senior systems engineer" and I travel all over the world working on various projects.
Never under estimate the power of being self-employed.
Go to grad school. (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
There are some things that you can do to help get a CS job -- you're on the right track, more/less with the idea of getting some more education. I don't think that the actual certification is worth much more than a statement of "I have some initiative," though. I certainly don't pay much attention to it when I interview candidates.
As previously pointed out, it's a buyers market, and so those companies that do have jobs are going to have their choice of people. Frankly, the fact that you don't have a job now is a strike against getting one soon -- there's a hidden bias that says "Well, nobody's wanted him yet. Should I take a chance?"
Things to do? Find a small handful of companies who have hired your friends, and who are either hiring now, or will be soon. Learn as much as you possibly can about the company and their products. That way, when you do get an interview, you'll be able to talk intelligently -- that, by itself, can wow them.
Don't stay unemployed -- find something else to do related to your field. Write open-source software to create a name for yourself (and learn something in the process); go back to grad school and wait the job market out; Travel -- at least when they ask 'why is he still unemployed,' the answer can be 'he was backpacking across Europe', and not 'he was being turned down by 30 other companies.'
Re:Go Freelance... (Score:2, Interesting)
A few months ago I compiled a list of the 3 companies I most wanted as job at and sent 3 applications (there were no job postings!) and got a job offer from all three after the interviews - so I must say getting a job couldn't be easier.
And it is the same with all my friends.
It might be that this is in Denmark. Here a B.Sc. or shorter education will end in unemplyment but a Master from one of the good universities will certainly not. SO if you are in the UK then move over here we have a high shortage of highly skilled IT people.
Re:Do you really need certificates? (Score:2, Interesting)
Certs sucks. (Score:2, Interesting)
I personally think Certs are for "many" people who want short cuts, and therefore are very much interested in having IT jobs with a lot of money but really doesn't have a clue about computing. Many of them just don't have any real interests in computer technologies but only in the dollar signs. I just got pissed off at these people and the H1B people because I worked so damn hard in college to learn as much as possible the in's and out's of computer technologies and can't even find a job. By the way, I had a summer internship with a big name company, a couple of IT jobs at my school, and took almost all of the graduate classes for graduate students while I was still an undergrad. I graduated with way above 3.0 GPA both on my major or accummulated. I do use a variety of OS systems, and write this while in my Linux box (I find it really funny that some CS students don't ever even bother to try Linux/Unix and they consider themselves CS people. They miss out.) . I am not like one of those monkey coders. I do know how to program and know my shit. I know more than the average CS graduated BA students at my school and other schools. Not only that, I've tried to acquire or at least become familiar with a variety of skills because I read the damn good book "The Pragmatic Programmer". I have true interests in computer technologies and have invested tons of money to buy so many O'Reiley books and other technical books beside my school textbooks. I have spent so many hours to set up/play with this and that.
Anyway, I haven't even bothered to look for jobs for the last month or so, it is just pointless. The hiring managers are blinded deaf illiterate suckers. The HR people are unbelievable dummies and have no idea of what the people they are hiring doing. I just don't understand why companies place hiring decisions on these HR people while they can't even tell the differences between C and C++. I agree with some of the comments in this thread of messages. I believe the companies are better off to hire people who are passionate about computer technologies because they will live and breathe with them. These people in the long run will make excellent contributions to the companies' growths, but make sure hire the ones who know their shits, and don't base on the Certs. With or without Certs, these passionate for computer technologies people will always come out on top on their respective computing fields.
Peace out to the unemployed recent CS graduate students. Sorry for ranting.
Last but not least, I virtually don't have any contacts or connections here, how do I even ever find a job in my field? I just don't want to go to work for no brainer jobs.
Go to grad school and get an engineering degree (Score:3, Interesting)
get a ms in ME or civil or EE or chemE. there are always jobs in those areas besides IT.
when the job market is low, you aren't missing much, might as well get a masters which is more valuable in the long term than some certificaton since your masters NEVER EXPIRES, heck its something you put after your name!
Luck (Score:1, Interesting)
I applied for many places that said they wanted what I had but only a couple even called me. I ended up finding my current job because this company was buying the furniture at the now dead dot-bomb I was working at the time. They bought the furniture, some servers, rented the building and I came along as a bonus!