Funding for Non-Traditional Comp. Sci Students? 40
chromatic asks: "I've been working with promising prospective programmers for a while. They're interested in college, but as non-traditional students with young families, the financial burdens are overwhelming. We're aware of FAFSA, financial aid officers, and standard grants (all of which have a bias toward traditional students). What other resources (grants, work study programs, low interest loans) should we explore?"
Clarification (Score:1)
Re:Clarification (Score:2, Informative)
Generally anybody over 25 or married or not going full-time©
College (Score:2, Informative)
1. GIBILL which ran out about halfway through(not available for everyone, but veterans have additional funding available)
2. Get a job, like everyone else, except you can't afford to blow off class 'cause it ain't your mama's money.
I had a full time job while working on my Bachelors, now I am in grad school...with, you guessed it, a full time job...except now my employer offers tuition reimbursement
Re:College (Score:2)
non traditional student? (Score:2, Funny)
Try Andersen.
Kind of a shot in the dark, but... (Score:1)
One thing I can suggest is to get a computer-realted government job. A friend of mine worked for the state, and they footed the bill for him to get "computer training" at a local college. It didn't exactly amount to a degree, but it basically gives him a minor in CS. That may be a more fruitful search.
Good luck.
Biased towards traditional students? (Score:5, Informative)
I can't speak to the particular people you spoke with at your particular institution, but I can tell that the Federal need analysis formula:
o in no way takes into account whether you are going full or part-time to school (though you must be at least half-time to receive federal aid)
o uses age to determine whether parents should contribute to the cost of education for unmarried, non-veteran, non-orphan/ward of the court students--this actually benefits older students, as no parent contribution decreases the amount a student is expected to provide on his own
o uses age to determine an "asset protection allowance"--meaning that the older you are, the more money the government says you, the student, can hang on to without being expected to contribute a percentage of it to your education, again, benefiting the student, whom the governemt assumes is saving for retirement as he ages
o does not take into account whether you attend a two-year, four-year, technical, trade, proprietary, or hairstyling school.
Here's federal financial aid in a nutshell. Your school determines your cost of attendance (COA) which includes tuition, fees, books, and living expenses (at your school's discrection). Your FAFSA determines how much you and/or your parents are expected to contribute out of pocket before federal loans and grants (unfortunately, the bulk of federal aid is in the form of loans--fortunately, those are at around 4% at the moment). That number is called your estimated family contribution. The difference between that cost of attendance and your contribution is referred to as "need." So need = COA - EFC. A school's financial aid office may meet that need with federal loans or grants, (and/or with its own money in the form of tuition waivers or scholarships; or loans from banks that aren't part of the federal programs, but those aren't federal).
The EFC formula's not top secret, you can look at it in detail here [ed.gov]. You also have access to every piece of information the federal government publishes for aid officers, as a citizen. There's detail, but none of this should be beyond the reasoning of someone reading/posting to Slashdot.
Being somewhat familiar with it, I fail to see how you can say the federal financial aid system favors the traditional student. If the financial aid office where you start out seems to not care about you, perhaps you should find a school that suits your academic needs and has one that does.
One other good sources of information about financial and and scholarships are finaid.org [finaid.org]. And whatever you do DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PAY ANYONE A FEE TO FILL OUT A FAFSA. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PAY TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR A SCHOLARSHIP. I cannot emphasize that enough.
if only i had mod points (Score:1)
Re:if only i had mod points (Score:1)
Re:Biased towards traditional students? (Score:2)
b)you may need to pay to be eligible for financial aid (see the college board's extortion sheet, the CSS/Profile)
c) you can always go to a state school in a state like Georgia, where a B average will get you free tuition. This is the best plan for anyone who can put off college until they establish residency (1 year, i think)
Re:Biased towards traditional students? (Score:1)
b) I think I had to pay a 2-5% originating fee on one of my loans or grants. Extortion, maybe, but better than paying out of my own pocket.
State schools try very hard to prevent freeloading out-of-staters from establishing residency. From people I've talked to, for "non-traditional" students, they generally don't check very deep.
Re:Biased towards traditional students? (Score:1)
In-school rates for FFEL loans are between 4 and 5% now. They go down more July 1. Thought the rates are variable up to 8.25%, they can be locked in through consolidation, for now.
b) you may need to pay to be eligible for financial aid (see the college board's extortion sheet, the CSS/Profile)
The Profile's a special case. That's why I said FAFSA :). But still, you shouldn't pay anyone to fill out even the CSS/Profile. I would ask for help from the Financial Aid office where I intended to go to school if I had trouble. Of course, in the private school realm where the Profile dominates, students/parents sometimes feel like they are in an adversarial relationship with the financial aid office, and will hire consultants to help "stage" assets and income to protect them from institutional need analysis. You can guess how I feel about the ethics of that, but people trying to shave $10,000/year off $40,000 private school tuition for Muffy and Biff know what they're paying for. The people I hate hearing about are those who have paid anywhere from $75-$1,000 to have these forms filled out for them, often with bogus promises of "guaranteed financial aid," that usually amounts to freshman loan eligibility. Very sleazy industry taking advantage of very vulnerable parents, particularly those of first-generation college kids.
c) you can always go to a state school in a state like Georgia, where a B average will get you free tuition. This is the best plan for anyone who can put off college until they establish residency (1 year, i think)
That's an awesome plan. Do you mean a high school B average? If so, does a B average in another state's high school cut it for Hope (?) after you establish residency?
Re:Biased towards traditional students? (Score:2)
It's an incredible deal.
Re:Biased towards traditional students? (Score:1)
For my first two or three years of college, I was uneligible for grants and other forms of aid because I was forced to take my parents income into consideration. When reporting on the FAFSA and other forms, if you were listed on your parents taxes in the last three years as a dependant, you must report their income. My parents did not help me pay for my college - yet the system assumes that they will just because of my age. Thus their higher incomes made me ineligible for most financing.
Personally I was forced to work full time while attending school just to be able to afford to go to community college. A university would have been completely unaffordable. If I would have had kids, this would likely have been an impossible task.
And yes, I was considered a non-traditional student because of the fact that I didn't live in the dorms and worked. My advisor had the nerve to suggest several times that students with full loads were strongly encouraged to work 20 hours a week or less.
I wish these people good luck with their financial aid quest.
Re:Biased towards traditional students? (Score:2)
That said, financial aid officers have the ability to exercise professional judgement, and to not include parental income and assets in case of genuine estrangement or abuse. But they won't tend to help mom and dad get out of helping to pay for college. If they choose not to, it's not the taxpayer's to pick up the bill.
What is Non-Traditional? What options? (Score:4, Interesting)
What's the issue here, really? Time and money, right? If a working dad (or mom) wants to go back to college, and still see the kids once or twice a week, full-time employment probably isn't an option, and that probably means a huge cut in lifestyle.
Well, I have lots of time these days, and I am considering changing my profession (again).
Last time, I quit my job as a reporter for InfoWorld (in 1986) and went to law school, where I don't think I got any financial aid except federal student loan program. I attended a public university (UC Berkeley) before the state of California jacked up tuition beyond reach, I moved into a tiny shared apartment, and I worked full-time (as a syndicated columnist) while also attending law school full-time. Of course, I didn't have a family to deal with, I know my fellow students who did went through hell, especially the single moms. Then, in
I am now considering making another change: I am seriously considering teaching high school. To my surprise, getting a teaching credential requires quite a bit of effort and time, and of course money. (For a 41-year-old with a B.A. and a J.D., the prospect of going back to college again is a bit unsettling.)
Finally, to answer the question posed:
But at some point, we really shouldn't expect help to continue. After all, I already have the training and skill to get full-time employment in at least two different professions (journalist or attorney, and of course I already work as an internet marketing consultant), and I already got LOTS of "free money" financial aid as an undergraduate, plus interest-subsidized and low-interest student loans during both undergraduate and law school (all repaid a while ago), and of course the states of Massachusetts and California each spent more money on my education than I ever paid in tuition anyway (well, technically I didn't pay tuition as an undergraduate because I qualified for a special merit scholarship from the state, which was not need-based).
Finally, aren't programmers a dime a dozen right now? Why would anyone want to subsidize education of programmers (other than through loans), if there are already many programmers who are not employed?
Re:What is Non-Traditional? What options? (Score:1)
Because a leading industry lobbying organization, the ITAA, says we need more programmers to keep up with demand. Now we know that means "We need seasoned Solaris admins and Oracle DBA's who'll work eighty hour weeks for $18,000/year" but apparently Congress doesn't, or at least is getting enough in "contributions" not to notice.
<OBLawyerCheapshot> By your logic, why would law students have been eligible for federal loans when you earned your J.D.?</OBLawyerCheapShot>
Re:What is Non-Traditional? What options? (Score:1)
Re:What is Non-Traditional? What options? (Score:1)
I dare say that the Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended, says nothing about supplying attorneys to underrepresented groups. Although that's a big piece of law, and I could easily be wrong. Not that it isn't a worthy goal. When I was younger and more naïve, I thought I would like being a lawyer. Fortunately, people like Lessig have stepped up and I can admire them rather than taking three years off to go to law school.
In fact, student loans are available for nearly all accredited post-secondary educational programs, including fields like art history, which have extremely high percentages of graduates who can't find work in their speciality.
So why pick on Computer Science? The point I was trying to good-naturedly (honest) make is that while you feel there is a glut of programmers, other people of good will feel that there is a glut of lawyers.
Re:What is Non-Traditional? What options? (Score:2)
Doing it this way you can take a college course or two each semester you teach and spend the summers doing the major work on the teaching certificate. This way also enables you to get some good teaching experience while you go to school -- you would not want to go to school for two years just to find out you hate teaching!
Check with your state, they may have a similar program. Good luck with your impending career change!
Re:What is Non-Traditional? What options? (Score:1)
I think I'd be more inclined to try substitute teaching first, to at least see how I like being in the classroom, though I doubt it would really be a fair comparison to being a "real" teacher. I would certainly not want to start teaching a full-year class and then decide this is just the wrong thing for me -- I'd feel pretty awful abandoning "my" students at that point.
I would much prefer to at least attend some kind of basic education about teaching styles, child development, administrative processes, etc., before walking into a classroom as The Guy In Charge. Of course, I assume that the New Guy isn't going to be teaching AP English to the best students, so I think some better training is important. But this is all pretty early-stage for me, we'll see how things go.
ROTC (Score:2)
Total compensation for a green 2nd Lieutenant is $35k. Not a princely sum, but not terrible either. Pay rates do increase over time and there is a differential for hazardous duty.
Then again, military life is probaly not well-suited to a non-traditional student with a family.
You're THAT Mark Welch? (Score:2, Funny)
Hey! You panned my product, Greeting Card Maker for DOS! You said my 16-color mode EGA was ugly, I didn't support color dot-matrix printers and my terminate-and-stay-resident mode locked up your system!
Well, it's taken me years but I will have my revenge when I unveil...Greeting Card Maker for DOS with Extended Memory Support!
Re:You're THAT Mark Welch? (Score:1)
Re:You're THAT Mark Welch? (Score:1)
Look into local community colleges for IT training (Score:3, Interesting)
I have been taking computer courses at Houston Community College for the last three years. HCC offers some excellent courses and is much cheaper than the University of Houston. Texas now has a common course numbering scheme for IT courses so transferring these credits to upper-level universities is not a problem.
Before anyone dismisses community colleges out of hand I would like to point out that many community colleges have IT certificates that students can earn without having to take non-IT courses. If you already have taken the core courses you can specialize in IT courses.
In my case, I had previously earned 90+ hours at Rice University and 70+ hours at the University of Houston, so I did not have to take English, History, Poli Sci, etc. I was able to take nothing but IT courses (except for an English technical writing course and several courses in Real Estate that I have taken for fun).
The end result? I now have five IT certificates and have gotten lots of experience in many IT technologies (C/C++, Unix/Linux, SQL/databases) and I ended up with a cool job with HCC Distance Education as a Hardware/Software Tech.
I mainly do tech support and training for students, faculty and staff. I also got my very own server (running Red Hat) and I also get to spend a lot of time hacking webpages together with PHP/MySQL. I can say for sure that my computer training at HCC prepared me wonderfully for my current job, so I don't hesitate to recommend community college IT courses to others.
Many feel that community colleges are always behind the tech curve but I know HCC is not that way. HCC offers Oracle courses that track the Oracle certificate preparation courses that cost thousands more. This summer I am taking courses in Perl/CGI/DBI and XML, which I believe are not offered by any other university or community college in the Houston area.
As far as funding goes, community colleges also work with the federal and state financial aid programs and scholarship programs. I was lucky enough to win a two year $5,000 National Science Foundation scholarship. Since I am a Texas veteran with no V.A. benefits left, I get tuition waivers. After I pay for books, I am actually making money by going to school!
Also, many community colleges have COOP programs where students can get work experience as they go to school. You may want to investigate community college COOP programs in your area to see if your students could benefit from them.
Options (Score:1)
Another option is to get all of your liberal arts out of the way at your local community college, and then transfer to a more prestigious and probably more expensive school to round out your BA requirements and get all your CS classes. (I don't know how it is where you are, but here in CA I think it's something like $5 a unit at a CC)
Re:Options (Score:2)
check the library... (Score:1)
Some employers offer tuition reimbursement as well (I've had 2 post-graduate college classes paid for by my employer, and got a tax deduction for 2 others).
Move.... (Score:1)
I have a family, full time job, but between the Hope and my GI bill, no worries, except I no longer have time to shower, sleep, eat and a few other trivial hobbies.
Easy. (Score:2)
Education (all of it) is free here. And we get Linuses.
Not to ask the obvious... (Score:1)
CS is cheap (Score:2)
* Middle-of-the-line PC: $1200
* Books: 4bk/yr * ~$50/bks * 4yrs = ~$800 (MAX - remember there are libraries)
* Internet connection: ~$40/mo
* Time: furnish this yourself
Unless you really need to work on some funky hardware I'd wager most CS can be learned with very little as far as equipment/supplies. There is very low startup costs, and with open source, you can basically go wherever your imagination takes you.
Ask the school (Score:2)
Ask the school.
Joe
Fellowships for education (Score:1)
Cornel Fellowship Notebook [cornell.edu]
Note: Some are more lucrative than others, while some require some type of employment commitment upon completion of sponsored event.
Online courses (Score:2)
You can work (Score:2)
I know a man who put himself through 2 years of college, while also supproting his wife and kid, making minium wage. He was an old fashioned type of guy who didn't not belive in womehn working outside the home. (with kids not yet a year old it is hard to find any advantage in that anyway, but mostly it was their life choice)
It can be done. It isn't easy, but it can be done. the only reason he didn't finish is after working 40 hour week and school he had no time for the family. (Eventially he went on the fast food management track, and while he could be making more as a programer, he is well over the average salery for his area)
You have to figgure out your values, and energy level. School is always hard, I'm not sure I would recomend it, just because it can take too muh family time from you. YMMV