Is it Wrong to Accept an Employment Counter-Offer? 1048
An Anonymous Coward asks: "I was happily working away at a low-paying but otherwise good job I'd had for several months, after taking a huge pay cut when the dot.bomb bubble burst. Then a recruiter contacted me with a very nice potential position - I interviewed and received an offer with a 50% increase in pay, everything else nearly the same. When I received the offer and decided I was interested, I broke the news to my current employer - to my surprise they extended a counter-offer with a matching salary, thereby eliminating my only reason for considering the other job. However, I talked to some friends and checked the web for ideas and realized that there are a *lot* of ppl out there who believe you should never accept a counter-offer. They make some good points, and there are a lot of those pages - but on the web popularity breeds increased popularity, in a self-feeding cycle, so I'm wondering if the numbers are skewed unrealistically. Is it really that rare to do well by accepting a counter-offer? Do Slashdot readers have experience with counter-offers from present employers, positive or negative?"
Take the Counter (Score:3, Interesting)
Most employers like that.
Current economy (Score:3, Interesting)
change of view (Score:3, Interesting)
No Problem with that (Score:2, Interesting)
Basically, you are in a really good possition now, you can choose any path you wish. So evaluate both companies. Look at the people you will be working with, the stability of the company, all those things I am sure you are considering anyway, and pick which one seams best for you. In fact, you should have a smile on your face, because in an economy where many can't find a job, you have two!
Asymmetry of perceptions (Score:5, Interesting)
However, 99.99% of organizations will behave exactly as the 10 reasons describe. Yes, I know, it was corporate employers who destroyed the idea of corporate loyalty in the 1980s. It is corporate employers who dump their long-timers to reduce medical costs and grab the pension money. It is corporate employers who will lay off 10,000 people to get a 1% pop in the stock price.
But the very same people who do these things will turn around and destroy the career of a person who accepts a counteroffer. Why? They have "shown disloyalty". Doesn't make sense, I know, but that is the way it is. Take the original offer and don't look back.
sPh
Re:And the number one reason? (Score:3, Interesting)
Two ways (Score:4, Interesting)
1. Crap. This one's leaving, but I gotta keep him here for now. I'll give him a raise, get him to finish the project, and see what happens later.
2. This is what I get for not paying attention to pay rates enough. This guy really is worth more than he's getting to me; after all, I was paying him more before the dotcom bust. Maybe I'll offer him the raise he deserves.
Obviously, #1 implies your employer sees you as a merc for hire. #2 means your employer actually cares. Believe me, I've been around enough to know that #2 is practically worth working for at your current pay (assuming it's enough to live on).
You know your employer better than I do. The question is, do you think your employer cares about you and your career? If so, I'd take the counteroffer, and just to make your loyalty clear, work some longer hours for a while to show how much you appreciate it. If you think #1 is closer to the case, decline politely and enjoy your new job.
What's your motivation? (Score:4, Interesting)
Counter Offers are not the work of Satan (Score:2, Interesting)
No one here can tell you how to decide, but don't let your decision to decline the counter offer be based on imagined suspicions of you. Most managers I know, and when I was one myself, just don't have the time. If you're valued, you're valued. --> Which is what some folks have already said: what kind of boss is this counter offer coming from. If he's a good guy, it's an honest re-evaluation of your importance. If he's not, then, yeah, maybe the counter offer isn't such a good idea.
Re:My friend had a counter offer... (Score:1, Interesting)
Remember the old management rule -- as soon as someone become essential, fire them.
I think it's different at every company (Score:3, Interesting)
I take issue with an item from that "list":
* Once the word gets out, the relationship that you now enjoy with your co-workers will never be the same. You will lose the personal satisfaction of peer group acceptance.
I have NEVER seen this to hold true. Usually, if you're in that position, your co-workers will understand where you're coming from, and no one treats you differently. If anything, they respect you for taking a stand. Especially in a low-morale corporate culture.
Re:Why not earlier (Score:3, Interesting)
A certain number of people (I think TWENTY FIVE PERCENT) will NOT receive a raise, no matter how effective they are.
Always change jobs (Score:3, Interesting)
So you need to search for another environment. A judicious selection of the new environment is important. But the most important thing is that you won't be in an statis anymore, you will be moving. Your entrance in the new environment will probably upset all existing... well... equilibria (hey, that's nice, probably even correct!
Of course, if you "only" want an easy well payed job for all your life, please keep to the known environments.
starting salary (Score:2, Interesting)
Your current job is willing to give you a *raise* up to X. And you already know that they don't want to pay you that much, so it'll be a long time before you get more than that. They think they're doing you a favor-- when they're really just doing themselves a favor.
In the new job, you'll most likely get a raise in 3-6 months after you prove yourself. A year tops...
I work for a recruiter... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:BIG problem with that plan... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's been my experience that employers have no problem negotiating with you. If you want more money ask. The other offer gives you extra bargaining power.
Re:why didn't they pay you to begin with? (Score:2, Interesting)
See my other reply to this topic. It is management's job to make sure I'm paid exactly what I'm worth to the company, no more or less. Inflation, expirence, and education, and the job market all are factors that, and reasons to give someone a raise. If they are not looking at market value, then they are not doing their job!
Sure I need to look at my market value from time to time, but I don't get paid to do that, so I have to look on my own time. The boss gets paid to know what I'm worth, if he doesn't know my market value, then he failed to do his job.
I Agree. This is what happened to me... (Score:4, Interesting)
Run, don't walk... to that new job.
Re: Why not earlier (Score:4, Interesting)
In other industries, offers and counteroffers are, if not commonplace, certainly not unusual. In investment banking and consulting, entire groups get raided, and companies go to great pains to keep their people, usually after a resignation letter is sitting on someone's desk. For someone with the requisite skills and knowledge, it seems to me that the leverage provided by such a letter represents a somewhat more compelling argument than the average request for some consideration.
-db
GE (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that 25% (or more) of a large group doesn't even pull their own weight.
Re:Reminiscent of the good old days (Score:3, Interesting)
Also -- are you just in it for the money, regardless of environment?
Bear in mind that a history of short jobs only leads to more short jobs. If long term stability if your goal, don't jump for short term salary gains.
I have had several long term jobs (4 years this one, 7 years, 9 years), and many short term jobs (6 months to 1 year). The short term jobs usually terminated due to bankruptcy, but sometimes because it was a lousy fit. I have always looked for interesting companies and interesting work rather than huge salaries. I get paid well enough that sweating $10K is not worth it. Sometimes I have taken a pay cut.
When I look for work, it is because the work and/or company is no longer interesting, and no counter-offer could have kept me there. If it was due to looming bankruptcy, ditto
Every situation is different. As a general rule of thumb, I would say that if you are looking because you don't want your current job, regardless of reason, then you should make the commitment. If a counter-offer induces you to stay, then you weren't serious about leaving.
If I had ever had a job where the pay was so low taht I wanted to look elsewhere, and I didn't trust management enough to tell them I wanted a raise, then I wouldn't trust management enough to take a counter-offer.
But I have never had an offer out of the blue for more than I was making, except for a friend who has told me I can double my pay if I move to Silly Valley, and he knows that's not very likely. I have had goofy calls from crappy headhunters, but they were untrustworthy to start with and had no credibility.
Re:Never accepted one (Score:3, Interesting)
No way could it be farther from the truth.
If you don't ask for a raise you won't get it, period.
Very few managers are actually competent enough to take the long-term view and actually try and keep their best staff happier. If you don't say anything, even the competent ones cannot know your are unhappy because of your salary.
Even managers that are trying to keep their staff happy have to balance between two oposites:
1) Beter salaries for employees (sometimes having to fight through mid-level/upper management to do it) on the possibility they might become unhappy/leave because of their salary
vs
2) Lower salaries, more profit for the company, bigger bonuses and improved image for the manager.
What incentives can you give a manager to align their objectives with your objectives (ie, choose option 1) - from less powerfull to more powerfull
a) Tell them you are unhappy with your salary.
b) Start looking for a job and let them know about it (best after using the previous option).
c) Come to them with an offer in your hand and tell them you are seriously considering it. (again best after the previous option).
These options are progressivly more effective but also progressively more risky (ie the manager might decide to let you go - then again, if you are in step c, it really doesn't mater).
One very important thing to have in mind is to let them know this is ONLY a salary question, and that you are happy with all the rest and would like to stay around if it wasn't for the salary.
If the perception from the manager is that a salary raise will not address the main causes of your dicontentment, then they will probably let you go (unless your are really considered essencial).
Even more important - think through very well why are you unhappy. Are you really sure it's only the salary? If it's something else, maybe you should go to management and try to address it. If it doesn't get solved just leave!!! Believe me, no ammount of salary raise will be enough to compensate the constant feeling of unhapinness.
It's business (Score:2, Interesting)
It is utterly reasonable to make a counter offer and quite reasonable to accept. You're clearly marketable, you can take the risk of the company behaving like idiots.
They wouldn't make the offer unless the meant it. Sure they SHOULD have spotted how valuable you were and paid up at your last review, but clearly YOU didn't know what you were worth either, or you did but you didn't make the case.
If there are reasons to stay at the job besides the money, I'd take it and stay. There's no shame, and your boss will ask you not to mention the counter offer. YOU SHOULD AGREE TO THIS.
Be professional, your company IS being professional.
sjf
Childish attitude (Score:3, Interesting)
You have now made your employer aware that you are unhappy. From this day on, your loyalty will always be in question.
No you have not; you've made your employer aware that he's not paying you enough and this has nothing to do with loyalty. If your loyalty is in question, this is not a consequence of the offer but of the stupidity of you employer.
When promotion time comes around, your employer will remember who is loyal and who is not.
See #1. Also: if your employer made you a counteroffer, you're at least worth something so maybe your chances at promotion time are even higher:)
When times get tough, your employer will begin the cutbacks with you.
Nothing wrong with that; when times get tough, there's less work available for you so your value on the jobmarket gets lower so it's perfectly normal to get a cutback. Your chance to get a cutback at another employer is about just as high.
Accepting a counteroffer is an insult to your intelligence and a blow to your personal pride; you were bought.
Accepting a counteroffer means you actually like your job but get payed more. How can that possibly be a blow to your personal pride?!
Where is the money for the counteroffer coming from? All companies have wage and salary guidelines which must be followed. Is it your next raise early?
Maybe it was. Is that so bad? Getting a raise earlier doesn't implicate that you won't get another raise soon.
Your company will immediately start looking for a new person at a cheaper price.
And they will get what they pay for so when they can do with someone cheaper, you're probably not the right man for the job anyway. And if you're not the right person, just don't accept the counteroffer
The same circumstances that now cause you to consider a change will repeat themselves in the future, even if you accept a counteroffer.
So? There are other ways to make it clear to your employer that you're worth more than he's paying for.
Statistics show that if you accept a counteroffer, the probability of voluntarily leaving in six months or being let go in one year is extremely high.
So...where are those statistics?
Once the word gets out, the relationship that you now enjoy with your co-workers will never be the same. You will lose the personal satisfaction of peer group acceptance.
If your co-workers are such assholes, maybe you shouldn't accept the counteroffer and go work somewhere else, but this has nothing to do with the counteroffer.
What type of company do you work for if you have to threaten to resign before they will give you what you are worth?
A company that doesn't know that well what you're worth. That's not a good thing, but it's not reason not to accept a counteroffer.
Conclusion: the 3 reasons for not accepting a counteroffer are: 1. Your boss is an asshole, 2. Your collegues are assholes or 3. You're not the right man for the job (or just don't like the job). Oh and maybe you'd also noticed these 10 reasons where on a site called `jobtechsearch'. Their sole goal is to get you a new job so counteroffers are a bad thing for them:)
Only you can answer the question (Score:1, Interesting)
Leaving because you are scared of taking a counter offer is no good reason to leave. If you have other reasons for leaving, then do so. You also have to keep in mind that you are giving up things like years of service which affect, among other things, how much vacation you have and when you get more.
In the future, you can shop around for salaries without having to accept offers. Ask your friends what they are getting offered. Don't be afraid to ask for a salary range from a head hunter, but keep them honest. Don't be afraid to bully them around a little either, they _really_ want you to take their job so they can get paid. Keep yoursel f in the driver's seat.
When I was agonizing over a job offer, my dad relayed to me what his PhD advisor told him:
Your family always comes first.
Your career comes second.
Your job comes in third.
Personal Story (Score:3, Interesting)
After two or three layoff rounds, I put my resume out on the web... didn't think too much about it, because I was happy where I was. About 6 months later, I get a call from a recruiter. I get an offer that's about a 20%.
My then-current employer offered to match (sans options, but I wasn't counting on those
I had a friend who accepted there a counter 6 years ago, and he's still there.
Re:I say take it (Score:2, Interesting)
I have taken counter offers in the past. I've also been given counter offers and turned them down because I felt that I knew the employer well enough that if I stayed my name would be mud and I would never be considered for promotion. Do what your gut tells you and remember that it's only a job.
Use the Counter to improve the offer (Score:1, Interesting)
The counter is usually used just to keep you there long enough to complete current work so that you will not leave them in a lurch.
Do be fair, and give whatever you feel is fair notice. Offer to complete current projects, if that would go beyond the conventional 2-week notice, and negotiate with your new employer to be able to do that. This will score you points with BOTH employers.
Finally, use the counter-offer to obtain a better offer. Let them know that your current employer countered. If necessary, to save face, accept some small token improvement in the offer. Do insist on something. You may be surprised at what they throw your way, though.
Do or do not, there is no global answer (Score:4, Interesting)
When I was in a similar position, I choose not to accept the counter-offer and left for my current employer (now 4 years later...)
As with just about anything, your mileage will vary.
Don't take it (Score:1, Interesting)
A lot of times, they'll counter offer so they can keep you on until they can hire your replacement at their pace.
BEWARE THE COUNTER OFFER. I would only consider it, if I asked for a raise first and was turned down.
Re:Do Not Accept (Score:1, Interesting)
The best strategy, if you are sure you'd rather stay where you are, is to ask for a raise before accepting the other offer. Just say that you feel you salary is out of line with the current market prices, rather than bringing up the job offer.
This way you won't be branded a traitor by management. Just don't go around bragging about any raise you get to the other employees, though.
Accepting a counteroffer is "being bought"? (Score:2, Interesting)
If the recruiter offered more money than the current job, and you took the newer higher-paying job, weren't you just bought anyway?
If a counteroffer was made, I'd then go back to the recruiter to see if they could do any better. It's always a good thing to have employers bidding against each other for you!
Re:Take the Counter (Score:1, Interesting)
Nothing makes a place harder to work for than a manager who thinks they are lord almighty. Ive seen a few. Ive also seen those same exact managers who do not do a damn thing come by and bring 50 people that are working overtime to a grinding halt because they didnt stop and TALK to their own people. Because they forgot that they have tons of smart people working for them. They thought they knew what they were doing. Ive then see that same manager turn around and deny ANY wrong doing to his fellow managers. I sat there and watched him do it. why? i told him not to, but hell, hes the boss right? What the water/electric/phone/gas bill didnt get paid? You start to ask what EXACTLY did he do?
Ive see managers that are AWSOME programmers become the worst manager imagniable. They were premoted out of something they did very well into something they knew nothing about. Then they proceded to treat all the people under them as oviously worse than them or they would have been promoted also right?
Ive now become what you loath. Ive become a whiner. Why? I hate working for people who do not support me. Who are so interested in their stock options they forgot to do their job. Ive had to learn how to manage myself. Ive had 8 managers now. I get it out with them up front. Treat me square and you will find Im the best person youve ever met. Treat me like crap and you will find me the worse damn person youve ever met. Out of those 8 ive had 1 that managed me properly. He knew what I was cabable of and what I could do, he made sure I was managed. He was someone I could take a problem to and he could either point me in the right direction to get it done. Or at least help me get something done. I am fairly sure I could not do that with any of the last 7 managers...
Ive written code used by thousands of people every day, sometimes multiple times a day, big deal. Guess what Im VERY sure I never want to be a manager. Ive seen that job as a bigger ulcer tank than im willing to have.
Tell me mr. manager today I had a manager tell me it was not this other programmers job to test his code before he gave it to me, and it was not his job to at least look at bugs and reproduce them to fix. It was someone elses job to do that. It took him 2 weeks to put 5 lines of code in. I find that a personal afront to the way I program. I take personal pride in low bug count code. Then when a bug is found in my code I make it my mission to make sure it is squashed, or at the very least that the right person is looking into it. In fact he told me to tell every single person in his group plus about 200 other people that his code was broke before it would get fixed. How in the world could that be a good decision? Not all decisions are in the best interst of getting things done in a timely manner, or even in the best interest of themselves and the people they are managing. Ive basicly been asked to pants this dude in public. At first I was pissed then I realized, well guess what I AM GOING TO, and laugh while I do it. What does this story mean? Well it shows in a very relivant way (to me at least) managers do not always think through what they say. I know exactly how he was bullied into this decision also, as I could probably bully my managers into doing the same thing. But I will not. It will take away from them learning the HARD way that hmm maybe that was not the best idea. But it will be at the expense of 2 managers and a programmer. It will not be me. Ive farted around with these dudes for 6 months and I am absolutly sure they have no clue what they are doing. Where in all this is my manager? He has been of fixing customer problems at customer sites. Where is his manager? Hell hes been so belittled he is useless now. I need someone who can YELL, SCREAM, something at this point. But there are none except me and a couple other peons.
Some people are just plane hard headed. You tell them the paint is wet and they STILL touch the damn thing.