Telemarketers and Cell Phones?

jjshoe asks: "I have received one bumbling voice mail from a woman who seemed very confused as to why I wasn't there, like her auto dialer transfered her call to my cellphone in time for my voice mail, one missed call, and one in which I actually talked to the woman. My concern is that this all costs me minutes, which of course equals money. What laws are out there for me? What bills are out there waiting to head their way towards becoming laws? What can I do to be compensated for time? After I screamed at the tele-marketer lady she said she would mark me as a wrong number, but I still don't believe this is enough." Considering most tele-marketers use auto-dialers, would it be so hard to grab the definitive list of area-code/extensions that are exclusively used for cellular phones and just apply that to their dial-out lists?

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's website was the only site I could find that had any information on cellphones and solicitation.

Note the first question from 'JOHN PUHATCH':

Q: Regarding the sole use of wireless phones as an alternative to a land line connection, as I have done for nearly two years: You stated that tele-marketers do not call wireless phones. If only that were the case. Tele-marketing agencies have regularly contacted me on my cell phone concerning everything from vacation homes to long-distance service. My assumption is that these agencies secure my cell phone number by buying information from the plethora of forms and applications that require home telephone numbers but leave no place for a cell phone.

And the answer basically amounts to, although we do have some protections, we can still be screwed:

'A: [...]In short, John, you lost your chance at a telemarketing-free life when you filled out those forms with your phone number. May others learn from your mistake.'

Does anyone have any advice on things I can do to get these tele-marketers to stop calling on my cellphone?"

Most land-based phone companies allow anonymous-call blocks these days. Are there cellular phone companies doing anything similar?

Junkbusters Telemarketing Tips

[akiy]

Some good information on decreasing the number of junk phone calls you get located here [junkbusters.com].

A magical phrase is, "Place me on your do not call list."

Rare occurrence.

[flamingchicken]

Being someone that installs and services auto-dialers I can say for a fact that if you get a marketing call on a cell phone it is a mistake. It is illegal for them to call your cell phone because of the very fact that it directly costs you money. I have not had a marketer call me in 2 years because I have only a cell phone. The people who make number lists for auto dialers cross-reference their list with a list of cell phone number blocks. Most of the time the mistakes are made by small in-house call centers.

Do not call list

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you can tell them to put you on a do not call list per telemarketer. Then, if that telemarketer calls you again, you can sue them in small claims court for your minutes and damages. Some skip tracing should help you find the offending company so that you can recover the money. It is even better if it is a local outfit calling you.

Get a dedicated voicemail number

[BlingBlings]

If all you have is your cellphone and no home phone # like me, get a dedicated Voicemail number, they're like $5 a month and you can make it seem like its your home number with an answering machine. Give this number out as your home number on everything, then just check it every so often. Don't ever give out your cell number. It's cheaper than having a home phone line and you can give it to everyone, even credit card companies, which are the worst telemarketing offenders.

I used to work for a Telemarketer

[Anonymous Coward]

In the IS department of course. So the laws, at least of 5 years ago, went as such:

- Some states, such as Florida, have a state-wide do-not-call list you can get on.
- Dialing of randomly or sequentially generated numbers is prohibited, you must get them from a list somewhere. Although the place I worked for did it anyhow at the request of clients.
- If you ask them to place them on their do-not-call list they must.
- UPON REQUEST THEY MUST MAIL YOU A COPY OF THEIR DO-NOT-CALL POLICY. Ask, I bet it will stump 99% of the telemarketers.
- They can still call you even if you're on that list if they have an "existing business relationship" with you, such as if you have their credit card and they want to sell you insurance.

Could not find any pending legislation

[Theologian]

• House of Representatives [house.gov],
• Senate [senate.gov]
• Congressional [congress.gov]

webpages don't have anything listing telemarketers or cell phones in your area of interest.
Give your lawmakers a a call!
[phone]

It's a solved problem - USA just needs to catch up

[pommiekiwifruit]

In the UK:

• All cellphone numbers start with 07. Other ranges of numbers are reserved for various things. There was much disruption while the phone number for London changed from 01 to 071/081 to 0171/0181 to 020(7/8) though - a boon for all stationary reprinting companies :-)
• You can opt out of all junk phone calls by joining the Telephone Preference System. This applies to landlines as well as mobiles. If they ring you when you are on the TPS, you get medium large amounts of cash from them.
• You don't pay for receiving calls, unless you are out of the country and are on a roving tariff (in which case you pay the bill for calling from your home country to the country you are currently in). It seems absolutely crazy to charge to receive calls, as this would cause the penetration of mobiles to drop dramatically as it would exclude poor people (e.g. many teenagers). Generally people I know receive lots of calls, and then spend up to their limit of outgoing calls and wait until they get more money.

Introducing those changes should help you.

It IS illegal under the TCPA (for most plans)

[pthisis]

Telemarketing to a number where the recipient has to pay by the minute is illegal under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act. See the U.S. Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Part I, Sec 227.

I got rid of my land line 3 years ago in favor of a cell phone and haven't had a single telemarketing call since then. I'm pretty surprised that you have; they're liable for a $500 fine for each such call placed.

Sumner

The UK is different

[Albanach]

There are a number of reasons that we in the UK are protected from this.

• We don't pay for incoming calls. The result is the calling party pays the bill - and calling cell phones during the day can be expensive - circa 30p (40c) /min.
• We have a regulated scheme by which you can opt out of all telemarketing calls - the telephone preference service [tpsonline.org.uk] Click to sign up now. Companies calling numbers listed on the TPS face a 2000 GBP fine.

So you have two things to pursue. Campaign for the calling party to pay the cost of their call, and campaign for the government to legislate to make one country wide telemarketing opt-out list with fines for companies that ignore your request. Sadly I don't see either happening in the US any time soon.

"Put me on your do not call list."

[Futurepower(R)]

In the U.S., ask what company is calling. Then say "Put me on your do not call list." Say nothing more. That is very effective, since they can be sued in small claims court if they call back. Use exactly that language and nothing else, the sentence has legal meaning. This works perfectly for me.

Re:Don't answer

[gid]

These days, I just don't answer blocked ID's, and my voicemail says so.

I'd love to do that, but unfortunately my sister's cell phone shows up as a "blocked id" she's in PIttsburgh w/ Nokia and I'm Gaithersburg, Maryland w/Sprint PCS. Kinda annoying, because if it weren't for that, I'd wouldn't answer blocked id's.

My current solution is once that I sniff that's it's a sales call, which usually takes me all of 2 seconds after noticing that no one greets with "hello" right away, because most sales calls are made by a machine that does dialing, once it determines that it's a person on the line, it passes the call to a human who does the talking, which can take a bit. Anyway I simply respond with "This is a cell phone, please don't call this number again".

For the above reason of how sales calls are placed I know some phone companies can give you a spam trap. Which basically means everytime someone calls you, the phone company takes the calls, asks the caller to press 1 to talk to a person, and then passes the call on to you. I had a friend who lives in Key West that had this feature, I wish more phone companies did, or maybe they do, and I just don't know.

Colorado "opt out" no call list

[pm]

As a follow-up to my own post, here's the website of the Colorado No-Call list:

http://www.coloradonocall.com/index.cfm

It's free and it was completely effectively in stopping unsolicited phone calls (except, as noted, political calls and charities).

Area codes

[chrismear]

Yeah, I could never understand why American cell phones worked like that. In the UK, the prefix 07 is reserved for mobile phones, pagers, and personal number services. Normal area codes all start with 01 or 02. It works quite well.

Re:Has anyone tried TeleZapper?

[stoolpigeon]

Let me start w/a disclaimer. I am not a telemarketer. I do run a predictive dialer but we are using it to call people who owe us money. If they pay their bills I do not bother them. If you don't do business w/my company, or keep your account current you will never hear from me.

The TeleZapper is a neat idea- I wish I would have thought of it. I would think it is helpful in limiting telemarketers but probably not a 100% solution. There are a couple reasons.

The first is that when the TeleZapper sends its little chunk of a SIT tone to the dialer it means that that dialer will mark your number as out of service. That dialer will most likely not call you again during that day. (This may not be true though depending on how the dialer is set up.) Whether or not you get updated in that company database depends on whether or not that company even has a database. And when do they update the dialer's results.
I do jobs for clients where there is never any storage of bad results from my dialer. We handle way too much volume to bother with it.

If they do keep a database to cull out bad results then this company may stop calling you altogether. But if you are on other lists w/other companies then they may keep calling. You should get the picture.

The second main reason it cannot stop all telemarketers is that it does not work on all dialers. (specifically a Mosaix dialer like the one that I run) The telezapper does not send out the whole SIT tone, just the first part. For some dialers this is enough. (Davox is one I've been told) But our dialer will just hang in there since the whole tone doesn't come across the line. (and remember it doesn't send the tone until you or your answering machine pick up the line.-- your phone still rings- you pick it up and hear the tone and if it is effective noone is there. It's just you going hello? hello?)

It's cheap and I've considered buying one. I think any reduction in telemarketing calls is pretty good. So I'm not trying to slam the product but the ads are somewhat optimistic in what the product can do (can't blame 'em there)

.

Pause

[ASP]

Do what I do. Most places with auto-dailers have more outgoing calls than people, so it takes them 5 seconds or so to get to the call. When you answer and get no response in 3-4 seconds, just hang up. Still costs a little, but I've found it works. I also don't answer calls sometimes from private numbers as well as anything that comes up 800 or 888 on call display.

Re:Has anyone tried TeleZapper?

[elfkicker]

When I moved a year ago and got a new number, i was amazed my how many telemarketing calls I was getting. Working at home, perhaps I just noticed it more, but it was at least 3 calls a day.

To see if the telezapper might work, I recorded the SIT tone onto my answering machine before my message and lowered the ring count to 2 rings for a month. Screened all calls. Now I recieve maybe one a week. I don't think I want that tone every single time I answer the phone, so I just keep in on my answering machine and bumped the ring count back to 4.

I highly recommend doing this if they are driving you nuts. Here's a .wav of the SIT tone [flash.net].

Re:Sounds like a problem waiting to happen

[BorgDrone]

Don't you have that "crazy" per-minute charge for local calls on your land lines? We don't here.

Yes we do, but I don't ever use land lines. can't remember the last time I did, almost everyone has got a cellphone. the local university here even hands out cellphones to all students, no monthly charge and 100 minutes free calls per month.

I myself pay 9 euro per month, including 40 minutes free calls, and I never ever exceeded those 40 minutes. for me , a cellphone is cheaper then a land line (which cost more per month, excluding calls).

so yes, land lines are charged per minute (per second actually) , do I care ? no!

Re:Junkbusters Telemarketing Tips

[tim_m]

If you are Colorado, make sure you are on the Official Do Not Call list. A friend of mine in Colorado signed up for the list in January, and just checked his status after receiving a call that would have been a violation. To his dismay, the status page said he was on the *unofficial* list, and asked if he would like to be on the *official* list, which would then be effective on November first. As this all happened yesterday, he was not happy at having to wait so long when he had already signed up.

For anyone who doesn't know aboutt his, you can use the same url as in the followup (here [coloradonocall.com]), and re-enter your info and use the Verify button to check. Would be a good idea to make sure you're on the official list so you really stop getting the calls, and/or really have a case if you get calls again.

Re:Sounds like a problem waiting to happen

[Qube]

And what happens when you run out of 07 numbers? Don't tell me "it'll never happen".

They get longer. UK numbers have grown a couple of digits in the last few years, when they run out of numberspace I'm sure they'll do the same thing again.

Same principle applies to things charged at different rates to normal - special rates are put on 08 (like 0800 - free, 0845 - local rate whereever you're calling from and 0870 - national rate). Premium rate is all dumped on 09 - the £1 a minute "advice" lines and the like.

A lot of upheaval, but it makes sense. It was getting silly 5 or 6 years ago with different blocks of numbers being allocated for mobiles and premium rate services seemingly at random and without any way of knowing the cost beforehand if it wasn't stated.

Don't you have that "crazy" per-minute charge for local calls on your land lines? We don't here. Anyway, there's so many minutes included with my calling plan that I've never paid an extra charge.

Not for a while now. The most basic package has a low cost of line rental with all calls paid for by the minute, but there are lots of other options. Pay about £1.50/month more and you get 4 hours of calls included. Pay about £5/month more and you don't pay for local calls. Pay £8.50 a month more and you don't pay for local or national. To avoid dialup ISP charges, you can pay another £5 or so per month.

All pretty flexible. My ISDN package comes with £14 worth of calls a month - I rarely go over that. BT suck on their pricing and availability of broadband, but we're not quite stuck in the dark ages :)

Re:Don't answer

[slamb]

They lied. What they said contradicts the Telephone Consumer Protection Act [jmls.edu].

First, to answer the poster of this story. The TCPA forbids calling at the callee's expense. From this page [junkbusters.com]:

In addition to prohibiting charges to protect residential privacy, the TCPA and our rules prohibit calls that impose costs on the called party (e.g., calls to paging and cellular numbers, facsimile advertisements).

After telling them I wished to be put on their no call list, they told me it would be three months before that would take effect. I told them this was unacceptable.

As well you should. I do not believe the TCPA allows them any time whatsoever. If they hang up and immediately call back, that's their one allowed error for the next twelve months. After that, you can charge them $500 per call.

I also learned that these no call lists are only valid for one year at which time they can opt me right back in

That's not what the TCPA says. This page [the-dma.org] at the Direct Marketing Assocation says that telemarketers must:

# Maintain a "do not call list" and honor any request to not be called again. When such a request is received, the requester may not be called again on behalf of the business for whom the solicitation is made. One error is allowed in a twelve month period. Subsequently, the soliciting companies are subject to penalties.

A person's name must be kept on the "do not call list" indefinitely.

I think the people who call just always try to weasel out of the terms and get you to agree. I try to be verify specific:

• I find out what company is calling me ("We're calling on behalf of Sprint..." "Yes, but what company do you work for?") and say they may not call me again. I keep track of that.
• I say "put me on your do-not-call list" rather than "take me off your list".
• If they say "it will take 30 days", I say "it had better not".

Actually, browsing that Junkbusters site, they have a script [junkbusters.com] for you to keep by the telephone. Looks handy.

DNC List Rules.

[ImaLamer]

First things first.

You must prove they called you on purpose. The burden of proof is on you. It isn't like you get that second call and viola! you get a check. There is court time involved.

You must also ask to speak with a supervisor. If a non-supervisor talks to you claiming they are a super that is good enough for you - you have no way of knowing. But you have the right to request a supervisors help, and you you must in order to guarantee you will win your case.

While working for the local "Enquirer" newspaper here in "Cincinnati" [hint hint], I learned that when a sales rep takes your number down to be put on the DNC list they can legally just throw them away because sales reps are known to screw up the process. You won't win in court claiming "well John promised me..."

Also some other tips:
The caller won't give you their full name. They don't have to because they have the same right to privacy that you enjoy (remember, it's the company that insists on calling you - they just want to get paid).

The FTC has strict rules against cursing on the phone. You can yell at them and say what you want, but they have to show restraint or you can win up to $10,000 dollars, sometimes more.

Lastly: It's bad business to call cell phones - how can you even tell if they want your product ;-)

We had special lists which help pager and cell numbers- we ran it across our main lists to remove them. That is the only good thing we did there.

The best thing was when I got an auto-dial number which for some reason just had a local TV station's audio play 24/7. It was great to listen to TV while not doing anything.

Re:Not sure about laws...

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at the http://NANPA.com website. They are the authority of all area codes and prefixes. Most phone companies use a unique prefix for cellular phone and land based phones.

AC

Re:Sounds like a problem waiting to happen

[John Ineson]

>> All cellphone numbers start with 07. Other
>> ranges of numbers are reserved for various
>> things.
>
> And what happens when you run out of 07 numbers?
> Don't tell me "it'll never happen".

It'll never happen, smartass. The 07 is followed by nine more digits. That gives us 1,000,000,000 (1 billion, in US terms) possible mobile numbers. The population of the UK is ~58,000,000 (58 million). So unless you think we need over 17 mobile numbers each...?

And if it turns out we do, no big deal. We use 01 & 02 for geographic, 08 for non-geographic, 09 for and premium, etc, but we still have a few digits reserved for future use.

[...]
> Don't you have that "crazy" per-minute charge
> for local calls on your land lines? We don't
> here.

How silly -- your line rental is therefore subsidising people who make more local calls than you do, since they are increasing the requirement for network capacity more than you, but you are bearing the costs of running the network equally.

> Anyway, there's so many minutes included with
> my calling plan that I've never paid an extra
> charge.

So you paid in advance, instead of afterwards... that doesn't really change very much, does it. And again you're buying a set deal, and since you don't use it all, again it looks like you're subsidising other people. Oh dear.

My monthly payment is exactly zero -- I pay only for the calls I make.