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Using Your TV as a Monitor? 53

Posted by Cliff from the next-point-of-convergence dept.
bpm140 asks: "I'm interested in turning my spare PC into an MP3 server, but unless I can hook it up to my home theater system, it's not really worth the effort. My biggest requirement is that I can view the desktop on my TV. Right now I'm limited to S-video, but in the future I plan on upgrading to HDTV. What are my options for getting legible text on my current TV? Any specific video card I should look at?" Are there any HDTV units in the pipe that may make this easier than it is now with current TVs? I've seen televisions with VGA inputs, before, but for the life of me, I can't remember who makes them.
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Using Your TV as a Monitor? More

Using Your TV as a Monitor?

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  • We've got a Mitsubishi HDTV that's of ungodly size. It has a VGA-in in the back - of course, there's a cable running out so we can use it :) Unfortunately, it's limited to 640x480 - and only 640x480 - and it's not a good idea to leave it on with the same screen over and over because eventually it will burn into the screen, and you don't want a root prompt while watching your high def.

    Although I haven't tried using it for anything more than that geeky gratification of knowing that my toy is pretty damn cool, it should work well.
    • I have an old 29" Mitsi monitor that takes VGA input, it will scale 1024x768, 800x600 and 640x480 - though 640x480 is it's native resolution. Also takes S-Video and composite.Great for watching DVDs off the TiBook's VGA out on (S-Video out on tibook normally doesn't work to play DVDs for some stupid reason).

      I also have a old 27" Sony PVM monitor that takes RGB SCART input and is great for the PS2 and normal TV, but it also has a digital TTL input, which apparently only does 640x200, i guess you'd use a CGA card or something to drive it. Wierd.

      Both of them weigh over 60kgs apiece, but the Sony has a great, high dynamic range picture which puts most TVs, even fancy new digital 100hz models to shame.

      The Mitsi has an annoying ground loop or something which makes it's built-in amp put a lot of noise out to it's speakers, but otherwise it's a sweet monitor too.

  • Build your own (Score:4, Informative)

    by SpatchMonkey ( 300000 ) on Thursday July 04, 2002 @11:45PM (#3825100) Journal
    You could try building your own, there is a good page on it here [www.hut.fi].

    • Re:Build your own (Score:2, Informative)

      by SpatchMonkey ( 300000 )
      And a more general article on displaying VGA pictures on your TV can be found here [epanorama.net]. I should've put this in the post I'm replying to, but never mind.
  • Of course this can be done.
    The Atrai used a TV for its monitor. Apple provides on all their laptops an s-video out and even some of their desktops.
    I have a 17" Samsung (SyncMaster 170MP) flat screen TV/monitor that I use on my PowerBook TI.

  • nVidia (Score:3, Informative)

    by mwilson ( 86196 ) on Friday July 05, 2002 @12:03AM (#3825186)
    I've got an nVidia GeForce 2 MX card with S-Video and composite out. There are no special drivers required, or special setup. At powerup, the card detects where the video cable is plugged in, and uses that output. The upshot of this is that the video bios string shows up on my TV when I start up the machine.

    I think that for HDTV, your best bet might be to find a display with VGA input. As for that, Princeton makes a line of fairly pricey displays that look just like TV's, but with every imaginable connection available. I don't know if they've broken into the HDTV market yet.

    --Matthew
  • Why not spend a little extra time and money and get a small LCD touchscreen and use that as your interface? With automatic name detection of CD tracks via the web, you shouldn't need to key in anything thus obviating the need for a clumsy keyboard.

  • ATI Radeon 8500s can output to HDTV. (Score:4, Informative)

    by stickb0y ( 260670 ) on Friday July 05, 2002 @01:02AM (#3825427)

    ATI fairly recently came out with an adapter [ati.com] to let their Radeon 8500 cards output to HDTV. Anandtech has a brief review of it [anandtech.com].

  • HD15 (PC VGA) to Component Video Converter (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MonMotha ( 514624 ) on Friday July 05, 2002 @01:25AM (#3825523)
    Get yourself a converter to turn your VGA signal into a Component signal. Component video is a common method of analog interconnection between DVD players and other high resolution devices to HDTVs that utilizes three separate coax cables (usually with RCA connectors at each end).

    I can't seem to find any right now, but I know I've seen them before on pricewatch. Make sure your video card can output a mode compatible with HDTV (the converters I saw usually did 1024x768).

    A converter like this will allow you to run at significantly higher resolutions than your average S-Video cable can seem to provide.

    --MonMotha
  • for a while now. I have an ATI All-in-Wonder 128; and I don't notice any difference between S-video and regular RCA video. I'm using RCA right now and the text is readable (although somewhat annoying) at 640x480 resolution. Hope that helps.
  • I own one of the TV's actually designed for use as a computer monitor... The Gateway Destination TV. I'll tell you right now, it's crap. Technically it can do 1600x1200 resolution, but the screen itself gets so unreadable from the large pixels that the screen itself is only useable at 640x480 or 800x600 (and that's pushing the limits of "useable")

    I would assume that regular TV screens would look even more horrible, and can only recomend that you give up now. I ended up buying another monitor and using the system as a media box for my *ahem* legally acquired movie clips. Even use as an mp3 server was impossible since standard text gets completely garbled by a TV, making reading song names a huge pain.

    • Re:Don't do it... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by alienmole ( 15522 )
      Technically it can do 1600x1200 resolution, but the screen itself gets so unreadable from the large pixels that the screen itself is only useable at 640x480 or 800x600

      You've been misled. 800x600 is the highest native resolution the Gateway Destination (31") supports - and some only supported 640x480. However, it's possible to scale down higher resolution images to display them, but obviously you're going to lose an enormous amount of detail scaling down from 1600x1200, which is quadruple the resolution.

      The reason the Destination sucks is the low native resolution combined with the large physical size of the screen, making for relatively few, large pixels which need to be viewed from some distance.

      If the screen truly had a 1600x1200 resolution and a 31" size, it would be quite usable. However, it still wouldn't be nearly as good as a smaller 1600x1200 monitor viewed from a closer distance.

  • "the desktop"? i hope you're not trying to run anything any larger than 800x600...text is squintably readable @ that rez...1024x768 you can make out common error messages by the shape of the word if you're right up next to the screen. 640x680 seems to be about the optimal for a TV. an HDTV might show clear text at 1024x768, but most friendly interfaces can be done at a much lower rez (640x480). just some things to ponder.

  • Philips TV/PC Monitors (Score:4, Interesting)

    by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 ) on Friday July 05, 2002 @06:02AM (#3826374) Journal
    Check out the Philips 150MT (review here [miw.com.sg]) TV/PC monitor.

    I've read a recent review of this model in Empire Magazine (UK) [empireonline.co.uk] and it sounds like a dream.

    Check out some of the features:
    • concealed manual controls
    • rear SCART socket, S-Video input and XGA (1024 by 768) PC input, stereo audio in and PC audio in, side headphones socket
    • resizable picture-in-picture capability (watch TV while working on your PC without the need for a TV tuner card)
    • 2 x 2.5W Nicam stereo integral speakers
    The Philips got a five (out of five) star review, with the reviewer particularly impressed by the picture and sound quality, and cost £689 including taxes (which should equate to about roughly $879 before taxes in the US).

    Also reviewed were the similar Bush LC-15 (£700, 2/5 stars) and the LG RE-15LA30 (£700, 4/5 stars).

    Hope that helps.
    • so I pent less then £300 on a 28" widescreen. not great, but cheap. you look at £700 on a 15"? Whats the world coming too :roll eyes:
      • so I pent less then £300 on a 28" widescreen. not great, but cheap. you look at £700 on a 15"? Whats the world coming too :roll eyes:

        Follow the link. It's a 15in. TFT flat panel, not a CRT. You get what you pay for.
        • True, however £400 for a tft half the size of a crt?

          A 15" TFT monitor costs about £150, add a £100 digital tuner.
          • A 15" TFT monitor costs about £150, add a £100 digital tuner.

            A poor quality 15in. TFT screen might cost you £150 (even then I doubt it, want to provide an example? I couldn't find any.*) but this screen was particularly lauded for it's picture (and sound) quality. Now I wouldn't argue for a second that the reviewer at Empire is the foremost authority on TFT displays but, if he's reviewing a TV/PC monitor, it's fair to assume that he knows the difference between a bad picture and a good one. Which, I guess, is the most important thing to consider when talking about something that you're going to stare at for long periods of time.

            This TFT includes a top-notch (again, according to the reviewer) speaker system, custom picture-in-picture software, other inputs, etc. And, something that you're perhaps overlooking, it's a stand-alone device that will work with any PC - the oldest, least impressive desktop or laptop will do. So, we're a far way away from a basic, no-name flat panel.

            Of course the price is at a premium right now. These kind of devices offering simple, elegant TV/PC interaction aren't mass market solutions at the moment - when they are their prices will reflect that.

            Early adopters/people who can't wait to have the latest thing accept that their paying a price premium now to have something that will be cheaper. It's not for everyone and, obviously, it's not for you. However, it might be just the right thing for others.

            Just because you wouldn't buy it that doesn't make it any less valid a solution.

            (* I looked for at TFTs priced between £100 and £300 at www.dabs.com [dabs.com], probably the UK's biggest PC retailer. The cheapest 15in. flat panel that they had available was at £265 excluding VAT, £311 including. Coincidentally, this was a Philips 150S, the display that their TV/PC display is based on. The price excluding VAT of the 150MT is £586, a difference of £321 - a lot less than you're suggesting. Even then, we're comparing the a cheap street price of one monitor to the manufacturer's quoted price of another. If you want to make comparisons, by all means do so, but please make sure that you're comparisons are real and valid and that you're not comparing apples to oranges.)
  • i've noticed that many plasma screens have SVGA input. the cheapest i've ever seen a plasma tv was at plasmapeople.com and i'm not sure if they had SVGA input or not. worth a look though, flat screens are oh so sweet.
  • I was faced with this decision recently. I opted to get a VGA to NTSC converter. This way, I can get the video card I want w/o worrying about whether or not the TV out works (also no Macrovision) and doesn't limit your card selection to only cards that support TV out.

    I also figured that I really wanted to be outputting the VGA signal and not NTSC. The box is a hack until displays progress to be large w/ high resolution and directly accept VGA.

    The box I got can theoretically go up to 1600x1200
  • Unless you have something like an HDTV already, you just won't get a decent picture.. And how much text do you need to display for a music station anyway? Set up your computer so that the fonts are easily readable on the TV instead of trying to make the pc picture look good on the TV... Any old TV card should do for that purpose.

    I wouldn't recommend playing PC games on a TV though (which might be tempting if you already have the PC hooked up) unless you have a much better TV card than me.
  • Just make your fonts bigger. Works like a charm, you can read it from normal couch to tv distances.

    There is nothing like being able to bring up more than a hundred gigs of anime without having to get up to change a disk.
  • They have composite inputs. (They were real fun to mess around with in the days of DCTV)

    Just get you a VGA to SVideo/Composite cable (y cable) and you're in business.

    You can usually get 1084s off eBay for around 50 bucks.

    Hope this helps.
  • My Dual Head Matrox g400 has been working in this roll for two or three years now. The computer lives in the room next to the tv, and I feed the svideo output from the video card, and the audio out from the sound card through a small hole in the wall and into the surround sound stero.

    Works like a charm.

    Add a cordless keyboard, mouse, and a dvd rom drive and you will have a system that impresses most of your guests with your technical savy.

    PS The G400 might be out of production. The current model I thing is G450 Dual head.
    • The Matrox G550 can be had for around $100 [mwave.com]. It has two configurable outputs, so you can connect a TV and a VGA (or DVI) device at the same time. You can use the displays independently, or have them show the same output. Also, the DVD playback on the G550 (and the 400/450) is quite good. The colors are well saturated and there are no dropped frames on my PII-350.
  • I've had a spare computer hooked up to my TV for a while, the image quality is good enough for the purpose, I suspect those 100Hz dual scan TV's will probably provide a much more readable display.

    The main thing is make sure the sound card doesn't put out some massive transients when the computer powers up - because sooner or later you'd somehow end up with amp up at high volume and get that potentially speaker damaging pop when you turn on the computer. That or use a digital link for the audio signal.

    But the problem is, most MP3's downloaded off the net sound rather crappy.
  • first off, the nature of most of the replies here seems to indicate that slashdot isn't a great place to ask home theater questions. try the home theater forum [avsforum.com] on the av science forum [avsforum.com]. basically, what you are going to want is a vga card with the ability to output arbitrary scan rates and resolutions. try the ATI radeon line [ati.com] using software to adjust your scan rates like powerstrip [entechtaiwan.com]. finally, as one other poster mentioned, you're going to want a vga to component video transcoder, like this [audioauthority.com] or this [keydigital.com]. with the appropriate video card and the vga transcoder, you'll be able to run native HDTV resolution into pretty much any consumer grade HDTV set.
  • It depends how much you need to see - if you are just using it as an MP3 server, then you can use a low-res set-up or play with the desktop (e.g. use the settings for the visually impaired with high contrast / big text etc.). You should be able to see as much as you need to get your MP3s chosen, and if it's all aural after that then it doesn't matter.

    You can then replace this with a higher definition screen when the opportunity arises.

    If on the other hand you want to do other things (e.g. web surfing etc.) on it then you probably need to go for a more complicated setup. The bottom line is that PCs (Linux and yes, even Windows) are very customisable and although 640x480 isn't pretty, it's usable for some things.

    If that's not acceptable, then SuSE has very good accessibility features - get yourself a Braille board and learn to use that and then you can just watch whatevers on cable.

    If none of these are suitable, watch MTV

  • Scan Converter (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wirefarm ( 18470 ) <jim@mmdCOWc.net minus herbivore> on Sunday July 07, 2002 @05:30AM (#3836233) Homepage
    A couple of weeks ago a friend and I picked up a scan converter in Akihabara for 9000 yen. (about $75)
    (It plugs into any vga monitor port and converts to a video signal.)
    Now of course this is not a good solution for someone looking to do actual work on a TV, but for people considering getting a video card with TV out for watching movies and playing games, (which is why I am reading this article,) it has some definite advantages:
    • Works with the video card you now own.
    • You can swap it easily to your laptop.
    • Linux *will* work with no configuration issues.
    • Works with DOS or non-X modes.
    • Fine for presentations such as powerpoint. (the original purpose of these devices, IIRC.)
    • No drivers to ever install.
    • Pal or NTSC
    • Does not support Macrovision - make VCR copies of DVDs that you own. (Keep the kids from scratching up DVDs that they watch.)
    • Will not be obsolete when your video card is.
    For movies and games, it worked.
    remarkably well - better, in fact than the TV -out on my Guillemot card which only works in Windows. (Plus, my card supports Macrovision, which means that I cannot 'back up' my DVDs to tape.)
    This would be perfect for someone wanting to convert an old box into a low-cost networked video player and MP3 player - Winamp in 'double-size' mode would be perfectly usable on any decent TV.
    Someone had suggested one of these to me a while back and I thought it a stupid idea - I assumed that integrated video-out on an expensive card *must* be better.
    I was wrong.
    Hope this is useful to someone...

    Cheers,
    Jim in Tokyo

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