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The Internet

Last Mile, High Speed Help for Upper Michigan? 48

Posted by Cliff from the broadband-for-rural-Michigan dept.
toaztke asks: "I've been charged with a quest by one of my employers. I am to sit on a regional committee and figure out how we can get high speed internet access all across Michigan's Upper Peninsula. For those of you not too familiar with the far north of this state one word can describe it all: 'rural'. So what I would like to know is if any Slashdot readers have any ideas/suggestions for me. Please send anything that crosses your mind my way. If you want more information on the project, just visit the Link UP website."
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Last Mile, High Speed Help for Upper Michigan? More

Last Mile, High Speed Help for Upper Michigan?

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  • Convince the local Cable company to install the needed infrastructure for cable modems. If they local Cable company sucks get the region to change providers. I have Charter Cable In Auburn, MA...these guys are great 3 different speed offerings, the also offer 5 static IPs as a Business Class service, and they have recently added SOHO Class which is 1 Static IP....At any service level they pretty much don't care what you do with the line, servers ok!(Hell they send my mail to the account I have on the mail server I have connected their cable line. And they know its there!)
    • Most rural homes don't have cable.

      Joe
      • Exactly - and if this guy thinks Auburn is rural, he needs to come out here to the Midwest and pay us a visit...
      • I have a vaction home in Eustis, ME trust me its much more rural than that...and Cable Modem is available there. They have no excuse in that area he is posting about, its just lazy companies....

    • Re:In expensive and reliable service (Score:5, Insightful)

      by PD ( 9577 ) <slashdotlinux@pdrap.org> on Friday July 12, 2002 @12:19PM (#3871403) Homepage Journal
      The UP doesn't have much cable. People heat their cabins and homes with propane, delivered by truck, because gas lines don't go everywhere. Electricity is too expensive. It can be 20 miles drive to the nearest town, and when you get there, the sign says "Winnemanachaktah, population: 57". The only store in town is a 1 pump gas station (not a digital one) with a few necessities for sale. The real store is the Red Owl grocery 50 miles away in Ontanagon. Heavy traffic on the way to work means that it took you an hour to drive to the state forest where you work as a ranger instead of 45 minutes, because a Winnebago with Illinois plates was driving 45. Everybody says "Eh" after questions, but they aren't Canadian. Everyone can tell you exactly what they were doing when they heard the Fitzgerald went down, and everyone knows the words to the Lightfoot ballad "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald."

      Anyway, the UP of Michigan is a wonderful place, with a long history of shipping, copper mining, logging, hunting, fishing, and other manly man sorts of things. I grew up in Michigan, and loved to go camping up there whenever I could get the chance. My favorite part is the Keewenaw Penninsula, especially the old British fort with the palisade fence at Copper Harbor.

      • Re:In expensive and reliable service (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Actually, the fort (Ft. Wilkins) is not British. IT was built by the US in 1844 / 1845. The "official" purpose was to keep keep the peace between the miners and the local Ojibwa Indians. If you read some of the gov't documents, though, it looks like the the big guys in Washington wanted a military presence to make sure it got it's piece of the pie in the copper mining. The fort was closed down after just a couple of years when with the outbreak of the Mexican War. After the Civil War it was regarrisoned from 1867-1870 simply becuase the Army didn't have enough "space" for all their men. It was shut down permanently in 1870 and eventually turned over to the State of Michigan in the early 20th century.
    • "Convince the local Cable company"

      Ahem. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

      In my experience, local cable companies don't really give a shit what their customers say, especially about the internet.

  • !Wires (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Kevin Stevens ( 227724 )
    I am assuming by "rural," you are saying that there is no existing cable infastructure, and as such the cable company will be useless. I think you have two options here, either rely on satellite for "broadband" or, seriously think about implementing a large scale wireless network using authentication schemes to access the network. Any place that can recieve radio signals, (IE 99.9% of the populaion) can be hooked in. There are many areas around the nation that have set up community nets this way, fairly inexpensively.
    -k
  • Mich Tech (www.mtu.edu) is UP there in Houghton, eh? They seem to be wired in, so maybe an effort with them, or their upstream provider that they hook into would be a start.
  • Ditch wired access: the labor costs are too high. Think more like a really big wifi network, trunked up to an even bigger distribution network. The community wireless paradigm is pretty good, and you might even find that someone has hacked up a wifi equivalent to a DSLAM - a nifty box that connects to an ATM fabric and shoots off wireless trunks to wireless distribution hubs, which in turn, feed wireless access points either in customer's homes or along public right of ways and in public spaces.

    There are two key technologies that I think are needed; the wireless access module that interfaces with the fiber or pots backbone, and the box that is both a point-to-point trunk mux/demux/retransmitter and a wifi access point to hang on a telephone pole out in the middle of BFE. I think it should all fit into a box the size of the ones used by the cable company for their digital signal booting equipment (they look like a little beer fridge hanging on the pole).

    The frequency spectrum for the trunks ought to be enough to get a five or six mile line of sight shot, even with the weather and the fog in the UP. Microwave is pretty power and infrastructure heavy, and the antennas aren't very discrete, but maybe a small SHF frequency radio with a good directional antenna.

    Sure, using wireless forces you to actually use PKI and IPSEC, but everyone really ought to any way.

    The business model could be one with a infrastructure owned and maintained as a utility, and the access and services provided in flat fee packages by ISP's that actually compete for customers. Perhaps there could be a minimal service, like an e-mail address with a small quota and a finite use account could be the right of taxpayers if the gov is footing the bill for install and maintenance of the infrastructure.
    • A wireless network will not, in all likelihood, work in da UP. Here's why:

      Trees.

      Millions and millions of trees.

      A huge part of the UP is national or state forest, and is *densely* forested, mostly with pines.

      Not to mention the geography. The western end of the UP in particular is very mountanious (OK, maybe hilly is a bit more accurate), and the mineral content of the rock is sky-high (lots of copper, iron, etc.), which wreaks absolute havoc with any kind of wireless signal (ever radio stinks up there, and don't get me started on cell-phone coverage). Since many of the towns are in valleys, wireless networks will have a lot of holes, even if you put a transmitter on every hilltop.

      DSL is probably the best bet, but the phone network up there isn't exactly stellar once you get outside the major towns (Marquette, Houghton/Hancock, the Soo). Not to mention that a lot of the smaller towns aren't even served by SBC/Ameritech (there are a bunch of small rural phone companies up there).

  • Check out MIS (Score:3, Informative)

    by martyb ( 196687 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @09:18AM (#3870258)

    This company was mentioned on /. a while ago; I don't have THAT link, but here's a link to their home page at: Midcoast Internet Solutions [midcoast.com] (MIS). For more details, check out their about [midcoast.com] page which provides info on their dialup, ISDN. DSL, and wireless solutions.

    MIS provides high-speed wireless internet access along the mid coast of Maine (USA). The up-front fee is kind of stiff, ($795; but there is a $300 discount with a one year commitment) but that gets you service at $50/month at speeds up to 20 times 56K dialup access. (Taken from their High Speed Wireless Internet Access [midcoast.com] page.

    DISCLAIMER: I've not personally used this service, nor do I have any financial interest. But I did grow up in Maine and the thought of high-speed internet access in an area of breathtaking scenery (and much lower home prices than the Boston area where I am now) is VERY tempting.

  • According to Motorola [motorola.com] site, Canopy [motorola.com] is a low-cost solution (if compared to 802.11) to deploy a wireless broadband ISP. No license needed, it operates on 5.25-5.35 GHz and 5.725-5.825 GHz. 10 Mbps, 2 miles Multipoint, 20 miles P2P. Somewhere (not on Motorola site) I've read of $30.000 for a starter kit that supports up to 200 users.
    • I haven't done the propagation checks, but I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that the 5 GHz stuff has much worse attenuation than 2.45 GHz. For a dense urban area where interference and raising the noise floor is an issue, attenuation is good (it keeps users out of each other's hair); for a rural scheme where you are regularly linking over hops of several miles, it's very bad.

  • Not as easy as that. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Aniquel ( 151133 )

    If you go here [michigan.org], it's plain to see that this isn't a simple problem. Hell, I used to live in a rural suburb of Grand Rapids, and it's ridiculous hard to get decent dial-up service there.

    Judging by the tele-comm infrastructure maps (off the link above), it looks like the best thing to do would be to tap off that fat pipe from Chicago to Houghton, and get a pipe running east-west accross the U.P.

    Of course, I guess it depends on whether you're trying to bring service to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who lives up there, or if you're just trying to connect major cities and leave the plebes to the cable/telcos.

    BTW, it'd be really tough for wireless to work up there; Not only is there still alot of Fe in the ground, but the U.P. isn't exactly flat. You'd have really short line of sight, unless you went satellite.

    • Things have changed. The entire Greater Grand Rapids Area is now wired; not to mention that there are a dozen, if not more, dial-up ISPs in place now.

      I used to live in Belding. My nearest neighbor had cable tv, internet, etc. I lived 150 yards from him and had to get a sat dish and 28.8 dialup! Thankfully, Greenville had cable when I moved up there.

  • Why are you asking us? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Wakko Warner ( 324 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @09:30AM (#3870313) Homepage Journal
    I doubt anyone here is a telecomms expert or knows enough about the industry and the technology to make any useful suggestions: the kind of answers you are going to get will probably involve well-tuned Pringles cans, or something equally unreasonable, like laying fiber all over the place in rural, residential areas.

    Good luck in your search, but I doubt anyone here will be of much help. Find and talk to some experts.

    - A.P.

  • http://www.linkmichigan.michigan.org/

    I'm sure you guys are included!
  • Wasn't Bresnan [bresnan.com] laying cable all over the place up there? I had "BresnanLink" cable modem service in Houghton back in late '97. True, Houghton-Hancock is one of the of the UP's "metropolitan" areas, but didn't they have some sort initiative to hook up all of the K12 schools (and therefore all communities)?

  • Grain Silos (Score:3, Informative)

    by n-baxley ( 103975 ) <nate@baxleysIII.org minus threevowels> on Friday July 12, 2002 @10:00AM (#3870488) Homepage Journal
    I've heard of a company [prairieinet.net] that uses broadcasters based on top of grain silos around rural Illinois and Iowa. I'm not familiar with UP agriculture, but this might be an option. My uncle uses them in Illinois and has had excellent service.
    • I'm not familiar with UP agriculture, but this might be an option.

      UP "agriculture" consists of:

      1. trees
      2. rocks
      So, I don't think that's a viable option.
  • That's all you need.

    By using linux and bsd boxen, you save alot of money compared to sun or microsoft.

    also consider that you can use commidity hardware and save even more

    overall it would probaly onyl cost about $200,000 to wire the whole state.
  • Talk to the Telco, Cable, & ISP's in the area.

    Do a joint effort to run single mode fibre to each house. Colocate equipment in "common" Environmental vaults. Each group pays 1/3 of the cost to run buy & burry the fibre. And Each group pays for 1/3 of the Buildings. POND techlology is relatively inexpensive about $800/ port(for both ends) it provides cable, phone & broadband

    -- Tim

  • Bars! (Score:4, Funny)

    by "Zow" ( 6449 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @11:51AM (#3871217) Homepage

    Wiring the Upers, eh? Well, it may be rural, but there seem to be an abundance of bars. After all, anytime you ask for directions, it's always in relation to the bars. So all you have to do is run a T1 or so to every bar (not a small expense, to be sure, but sure better than wiring everyone), and set up a wireless access point with an antenna and booster. That might not cover the whole penensula, but it should cover most of the homes & businesses, and a good deal of the hunting grounds (don't know how important that will be for a few years though given the deer elimination this year).

    And if you haven't figured it out by now, I'm kidding.

    -"Zow"

  • Have you talked to Merit about doing something inconjunction with them?

    Merit Network [merit.edu]

  • Convince some cell phone company to do tests of the 3rd generation cell phones there. I don't know how you would make it worth their while, but 3G cell phone could be a good option for many people if it ever takes off. (for that matter if they ever agree on a standard...)

    • Convince some cell phone company to do tests of the 3rd generation cell phones there.

      Having just returned from vacationing in the UP, I can assure you that the results of such a test are: "No Service".

  • Kincheloe/Kinross (Score:2, Informative)

    by Dark Coder ( 66759 )
    As a former Yooper (U.P.er), I can vouch for the tough winter blizzard and bothersome rain storm as well as the VASTNESS of the pine forest with NO CIVILIZATION in between towns.

    This is as rural as Virginia purported to be back in 1710.

    Wireless is out. First snowstorm will not only knock the Pringle cans, but the sturdiest Yagi antenna also, unless you buy those "Octogonal Radar Dome" to protect the elements from the elements.

    Cable is out. no cable company in their right business mind will touch such an incredible low-density of a rural area that even makes Montana rural community look like bustling cities.

    DSL is out. More than 90% of the customer lives outside of the CO radii (and that is using the best SHDSL technology)

    I wouldn't say S.O.L., yet.

    This would be an excellent time for taking advantage of local railway's right-of-way for dropping fiber lines and setting up multiple Point of Access.

    Marquette is a good starting place for OC-3 vector point.

    Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, via microwave, might get you a decent DS-3 link.

    I don't think there is any decent speed left by going across the Mackinaw Bridge, unless someone lights a fiber up to Mackinaw City and then Microwave them over. Then, I was pretty sure they've laid fiber across the bridge but not sure if they are lit yet.
    • I was just up in Mackinaw in May, and I too remember something about fiber going across the Mackinaw Bridge. I deal with the people in the Mackinaw Crossings shopping center, and we had discussed doing a 802.11b hop from the theatre to Shepler's marina and also to the Grand Hotel on the island. Trouble is, there is no high-speed to send over there, so other than a kiosk on the island, there was no point. The dial-up sucks too, as a simple 1 meg file can take them half an hour to download. What a beautiful place to be, though, and the people are wonderful. Make sure you stop at the Keyhole Bar. A must see......
  • Use spacenet
  • I work for Charter Communications and I know for a fact that we provide Pipeline cable internet in the U.P. I realize that some of the rural areas may be off the plant but with time most small towns will be connected to a headend that can deliver internet services. My hometown of Crandon, Wi (near the U.P.) was just hooked up from our Rhinelander headend, just give it some time.
  • Once you get it, sell your capacity to other networks, and make capacity trading deals. Don't try to skimp by allowing a single point of failure. Make sure that if trees are to be removed who gets the rights to the timber.
  • Nag your local telco about PON (Passive Optical Networking).
  • 1) Pay through all available orifices to have fibre run to wherever you want it to go.

    2) Move the people to a damn city.

    Rural folks get many advantages over urban folks: lower cost of living; less pollution (air, water, noise and light); lower crime and so on. Why do yo uthink you can have the advantages of living in a city (running water; paved roads; high speed internet), too?
  • but, i had stuff to do. Anyway, I am from the U.P., Ishpeming actually, and Charter is horrible. Bresnan was worse, but Charter is still bad and since this is all we can get, we're stuck. And by the way, not all towns here are population 57. I live in a town of about 10000. Sure, it aint huge, but it's helluva lot bigger than 57. And, only people older than 40 say "Eh" after everything...everybody else just wants to get the hell out of here, too many trees and nothing to do. I mean, one club in the radius of about 100 miles, covering around 50000 people total...that's just sad.
  • I think that Wakko Warner (user #3870313) is right: you need to talk with an expert (better with more, as you'll discover that each expert has its own idea on the best approach). But the ideas expressed here are a good start for your conversation with the guy(s).

    I think that a good idea would be to get fiber (not T1, not cable, as fiber is cheaper) to all small towns and do wireless mesh networks in the towns. This will probably be your best bang for the buck.

    Good luck,
    Mihai

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