Computers That Thrive in Salty, Humid Environments? 432
To start us out, frostman asks: "A friend of mine is living on a sailboat, and would like to set up a nifty computer system. It doesn't need to be too powerful, but it should be small, rugged, fairly quiet, and cheap. He has a standard PII/400 mid-tower system he can gut for parts (400Mhz would probably be enough). He wants to do normal internet stuff, watch DVD's, listen to MP3's (with good speakers)... and he needs it to run on 12 volts when he's sailing. Any suggestions from the hardware gurus on Slashdot?"
websensei continues with this query: "I am about to become a full-time live-aboard on my sailboat. I'm in the process of selling all my machines and plan to spend about $2000 on a new laptop for the boat. I'll use it for work and play (movies, gaming, TV via USB TV tuner?) etc. Please share any advice/experiences relating to computing on boats or other harsh/damp environs."
And last, but not least, Alioth asks about fishes, not boats: "How about computers in fish factories? Not only do we have to contend with the room being jetwashed, but the atmosphere is very salty. I've been looking at stainless steel enclosures - what's their salt water resistance like, not just the stainless parts, but the parts that fasten the stainless parts together, not to mention being able to keep the computer cool as well (meaning it's got to vent somewhere)?"
Isn't obvious what this is for? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Isn't obvious what this is for? (Score:5, Funny)
>saltwater environment are pirates.
Well, he mentioned wanting to watch DVD's, so I guess he's looking for booty.
-l
Re:Isn't obvious what this is for? (Score:2)
And I was such a high seas pirate! With computer! (Score:4, Interesting)
After the evacuation of Saigon (April 1975), Radio Hanoi called us pirates for not returning all the planes and helicopters flown out of country by the escapees. Our captain promptly broke out the Jolly Riger.
So I am a real high seas pirate, by no less an authority than Radio Hanoi, and we had a computer built to operate under water!
Re:And I was such a high seas pirate! With compute (Score:2)
Re:Isn't obvious what this is for? (Score:2, Informative)
they live on a sailboat.. and have tons of computer systems and equipment
Re:Isn't obvious what this is for? (Score:5, Funny)
In the factory... (Score:5, Informative)
Conformal coat (Score:3, Informative)
Re:In the factory... (one more try) (Score:5, Informative)
In any case, the stupid box has an internal heater -- Like anybody out there is going to need a heater for a P3. A couple of P4s can make a pretty good (but damned expensive) space heater!
More seriously, though.. these boxes are made for food processing (inc. freezer buildings) environments -- although there aren't many computer components that would mind being kept at -35c (disk drives come to mind as possible exceptions).
For a marine envirnemt, Possibly more valuable would be a closed-loop cooling system (like is often used by over-clockers.
Off the top of my head, you might try and hunt down a marine refrigerator.. Drill holes for the cables, then grout around them with silicon.
An external (scsi?) CD/DVD drive in it's own enclosure (smaller, easer to get to , not as likely to need cooling).
An LCD display is probably the best idea (smaller, cooler, less power).
As for power, you can use 24/12V->110V power inverters by people like StatPower (or whoever bought them). They range from 50W units that are good for laptops to gargantuan (KiloWatt range) monsters. A 250W unit is about the size of a 5" drive, but gets reasonably hot by itself.
Companies do make units specifically for marine operations.
That having been said, though... You may want to look for power supplies specifically for marine operations.. You're already starting with 12 or 24VDC. No real need to punch up to 110AC and then back down again.. All you really need are some medium-amperage voltage regulators (especially if you're starting at 24V). A two-stage regulator (24V->16V, 16V->12/5V) should give you the cleanest power you could ask for.and FAR simpler too. You could probably arrange to have the PS cooled by a sea-water sluice. (less heat to worry about inside the CPU enclosure). There are probably all sorts of people capable of building on for you (if absolutely necessary).
Gotta run now.. off to the beach :-)
fish factories? (Score:3, Funny)
Every time I think we've reached the end of human progress, someone comes up with something new.
Re:fish factories? (Score:2)
Perhaps they've improved on this process [slashdot.org]?
Re:fish factories? (Score:5, Funny)
I believe they mean factories ran by fish
Re:fish factories? (Score:2)
Surely, the factory is stationary?
Re:fish factories? (Score:3, Funny)
Actually, I think they're Japanese factories run by workers wearing fish costumes.
Re:fish factories? (Score:3, Funny)
"Knife goes in, guts come out, that's what Osaka seafood concern is all about.."
Re:fish factories? (Score:3, Insightful)
That interpretation is quite relevant to Hegel's position of the achievement of true freedom as the litmus of human progress. That is, if you believe self-actualization and true freedom are one in the same.
If indeed that's the case, then the spirit of a people provides the best evidence of progress, and can be best looked at as the essence of a state. When a people rises and falls, it is accompanied by its particular world-spirit, which is its consciousness of freedom. Every people has a different consciousness of freedom. Some peoples believe in freedom for all (man, as man, is free), why others believe in freedom for a few (some men are free, while others are not).
Kant, Hegel, and Marx (hell, you can even throw Wagar in there) were all forward-thinking progressivists with interrelated theories on the symantics of human progress. Personally, I prefer the classicist dionysian interpretation in that man's destiny is to suffer and die as part of the larger, cyclical process of the perpetuation of mankind as a species. Man's destiny is cyclical, regressive, or a regressive cycle, but it's certainly not progressive, regardless of the popular illusion. Nietzsche put it best: "We say it is 'explanation' ; but it is only in 'description' that we are in advance of the older stages of knowledge and science. We describe better, we explain just as little as our predecessors."
Obviously... (Score:2, Funny)
It'll cost you. (Score:3, Funny)
(note: this also works with the word "aviation").
Re:It'll cost you. (Score:2)
Re:It'll cost you. (Score:4, Funny)
Something that runs cool, without fans. (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe something based on the Cyrix 933 processor? They run a lot cooler, and would require only a heatsinc.
The less moving parts the better.
I think you missed the obvious (Score:3, Interesting)
It would probably be a bit more realistic to find a manufacturer of a box which is conductively cooled to the outer (sealed) casing. That takes care of corrosion issues in the computer itself; the keyboard, mouse and display will have to take care of themselves, and of course you're going to have to use something like a USB floppy/CD drive to avoid penetrations through the casing.
Water cooled by Saltwater = Bad Idea (Score:4, Informative)
If you've never seen them, they're little critters that attach to everything, and grow, with very hard shells. All oceangoing ships have to be dry-docked every so often and have the barnacles (and other ocean critters) sandblasted, ground, dissolved, and photo-flashed off the hull. This is done to improve speed and fuel efficiency. If you get into the 3rd world, sometimes you can see boats that have a good foot of ocean critter crust attached to the hull.
Now imagine your PC water cooling hose becoming slowly clogged with critters. Plus you'd likely suction up something else, like kelp or seaweed.
If you just want to embed a metal plate in the hull, and weld a heat transfer unit to it on the inside of the boat, that'd work nicely. A closed-loop water cooler. That'd allow you to use other fluids, like adding some glycol, so that the thing didn't freeze up, expand, and break, if you didn't use the computer some icy day.
Laptop (Score:5, Informative)
M@
Re:Laptop (Score:2)
I don't know for sure, but I'd bet there's some sort of adapter/charger for laptop batteries that will run on 12V. Try googling on "laptop battery 12V," there's some promising hits there.
Power Supply (Score:2, Informative)
The V model ought to do well if the system is going to be a lightweight.
SaltWater is the devil... (Score:2)
My advice: use an airtight stainless steel box in the general shape of a computer but a good bit larger. Cut 4 holes in it, two on each narrow end (or wherever air will be able to flow). Fill those holes with some sort of air filter. Seal the edges around the air filter. Get the computer in there somehow. Make sure you seal around the holes for the cables.
Seriously, if saltwater gets in your computer, the thing will rust in no time from the inside out.
cooling (Score:2)
Haven't you been keeping up with the industry? Water cooling is all the rage.
Ask Katz to talk to Junis (Score:5, Funny)
I bet he'd have GREAT advice for anyone that required running a computer in hot, humid environments (although he's more into the "desert" environment than the "water" environment).
Re:Ask Katz to talk to Junis (Score:2)
It's not THAT hard.. (Score:5, Informative)
Plastic is an obvious answer. It's resistant to water, salt, heat, etc.. Underwater camera housings are made out of plastic and work very well. For cooling, you can do a heatpipe arrangement with aluminum heatsinks on the inside and out.
The USGS has built entire PC's that are made to reside underwater for days logging data - they put them in watertight aluminum boxes and bind the heatsinks to the sides. Works great.
Re:It's not THAT hard.. (Score:4, Informative)
My advice to your friend would be to bring at least four or five fresh power supplies wrapped in dessicant if he's going to be using a desktop system. And even better is to have a small network on board rather than a single machine. Leaving the machine(s) on as much as possible is the simplest advice though. Even extremely moist conditions don't have much effect on an active desktop system, but you have to keep it active. Eventually salty condensation will kill your PSU if you let it power down all the time.
Re:It's not THAT hard.. (Score:4, Informative)
The Other Issues... (Score:2, Funny)
SINKING maybe ;)
TNAC might have a good solution. (Score:5, Informative)
P.S. No, I don't work for them.
Re:TNAC might have a good solution. (Score:5, Informative)
Pricing? (Score:2)
One of these things - especially if the display is really bright - would be great for the race car.
DG
Re:TNAC might have a good solution. (Score:2)
Ionization of metals (Score:2, Interesting)
Okay I'm sorry ... BUT (Score:2, Insightful)
ENJOY BEING AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER!
It is possible to enjoy the ocean without mp3's or email access. Pack a laptop up in a duct tape sealed trash bag and leave it there for when you get to shore. When on shore check your email or download whatever ... then when you get back on the boat ... wrap the thing back up and enjoy where you are.
If someone were to ask me how to get a computer on a sail boat I would find reasons as to why I wouldn't want to have one.
1.) It's wet, electronics don't do well in wet.
2.) You can't use the laptop on the deck during the day, the glare will be horrible. (and why would you want to be below decks???)
3.) Power, enjoy being outside away from electronics and conserve what battery you have. If you're on a decent size sailboat there will be a generator, but who the hell wants to listen to a generator all day?
If those aren't reason enough for you then you have a really big problem. Enjoy being away from the computer ... slashdot is archived so you won't miss out ... The only thing I can see anyone missing out on is being able to be FIRST POST!.
Okay I'm sorry ... BUT RTFA (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Okay I'm sorry ... BUT (Score:2)
If this guy LIVES on the boat, and needs a computer sometimes, then it's not really an option to not have a computer on board, now is it? Why would he want to be below deck? Maybe it's raining. Maybe he's naked. Maybe it's really cold out. What difference does it make?
I've heard of a guy that bought some netwinders to use on his boat, bucause they could run off the main battery all day. Never heard of any trouble, but I never heard from him again, either. Anyway, he didn't have to listen to a generator all the time, only for a little while on cloudy days.
Re:Okay I'm sorry ... BUT (Score:3, Interesting)
Get a cheap laptop and a 12V car adapter (Score:5, Informative)
If the laptop is cheap enough, having it die doesn't matter as much.
The only other tip I would offer is to try to avoid a touchpad, as the one on my Viao really doesn't like wet hands. I would go for one of those nipple things or maybe a trackball (do they still even ship with those anymore?)
There is some real nice PC navigation software, like Visual Navigation Suite [nobeltec.com], which hasn't crashed on me once and supports just about all the electronic chart formats out there right now.
You might want to check out rec.boats.electronics, as they have a bunch of useful information there as well.
Twostep
Re:Get a cheap laptop and a 12V car adapter (Score:2)
So I have to ask:
[I guess many boats include engines, generators, etc.(aircraft carriers are basically mobile cities), but I was kind of curious about the case where you had to bring all your coulombs with you.]
Re:Get a cheap laptop and a 12V car adapter (Score:2)
You don't want to deep cycle any battery that is not designed to be deep cycled.
A standard size deep cycle battery is about 75 amp hours. Assume the laptop burns 50 watts or so. (I don't have numbers, this seems reasonable)
50 watts = 12 volts at 4 amps or so.
75 amp hours is usually a 5 hour rating IIRC, meaning if you use the power faster than that, you will get less, slower, you will get more.
18.75 hours+ at 50 watts, on a normal battery about the same size as a car battery, but designed for deep cycling.
Obligatory 16 year old bouy humor ... (Score:3, Funny)
Actually, if you are going to be on a boat for a long period of time you might want to bring a pair of those nipple things.
Mineral oil (Score:4, Funny)
Someone must have a link to the old
Mineral oil doesn't work (Score:4, Interesting)
The only way to do a mineral cooled system would be to solder everything down. Of course, then you couldn't upgrade anything. I guess that might work for a laptop (how many people actually upgrade a CPU or a video card on a laptop?), but the memory would need to be maxed out, and then you have the extra weight of all the mineral oil in there to lug around. So maybe not.
Re:Mineral oil doesn't work (Score:2, Funny)
That should solve the problem of only having it work great initially.
Cuchullain
truckstops america (Score:2)
With the fish plant.... Why do you have computers there? It's just more stuff for me to blow up when I return from 8-ball's shop with the garbage truck [rockstargames.com]. Seriously, that's what offices are for. If you must have something, look at medical enclosures.
Not worth the additional cost (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's a little thought experiment:
Buy a laptop for $1200-1400 with a combo DVD/cdrw drive, make data backups to CD, store CD's in water tight container.
In two+ years when it starts to act flakey (corroding battery contacts) buy ANOTHER laptop for $1200 to $1400, rinse repeat.
It'll take a long time to add up to the $5000-ish you'll pay for your first marine grade laptop.
Re:Not worth the additional cost (Score:2)
OR, better yet.. Get a nice warranty (Dell, perhaps?), and when the laptop starts crapping out, ask for a replacement. You just have to know how to handle the support folks. I recently had Dell take back my Inspiron 5000 that had several issues. They sent me an Inspiron 8000 refurb. Not a bad trade.
Re:Not worth the additional cost (Score:5, Insightful)
maru
My cousin does this. (Score:2, Informative)
Well, we ended up going with a dell laptop due to the fact that he only needed it for e-mail, wordprocessing, and spreadsheets. After 4 years, it's still running fine, with no visible corosion on any metal. Last month we upgraded the hard drive in it, and everthing still looked fine.
Research Vessels (Score:2)
Re:Research Vessels (Score:2)
They went to the equatorial eastern Pacific so I think they were in cold upwelling water, though I know since they take care of a lot of bouys they also go to the equatorial warm pool.
Search for "marine computer" on google.... (Score:2, Informative)
and guess what they sell...?
GoBook MAX laptop created for harsh environments.. (Score:5, Informative)
"The GoBook MAX exceeds military specs for drop, water resistance, dust and vibration. The GoBook MAX thrives in the most severe environments imaginable. Freezing cold. Searing heat. Pouring rain. Intrinsically safe,(Class 1, Division 2, Group D) the GoBook MAX enables operators to safely work in HazMat environments; on flightlines, near hazardous chemicals or explosive materials. With Itronix' innovative CRMA(TM) wireless communications, radios can be swapped or upgraded within each unit. Backed by a limited lifetime warranty and comprehensive services package, the Itronix GoBook MAX sets a new standard for ultra-rugged, wireless computing."
Specs [itronix.com]
Website [gobookmax.com]
MaximumPC review [maximumpc.com]
One possible concern. (Score:2, Funny)
This is trivial (Score:2)
Honestly, do I have to do everything around here?
Kontron... (Score:2, Informative)
But they're not all that rugged. One LCD screen failed when a snowcat started just next to it. And I had to use my backup indoor machine outdoor; an old HP Vectra that had to sit outside for 4 hours while I uploaded firmwares into weather forecast systems. With gloves [gdargaud.net].
It's going to be okay (Score:2, Interesting)
We tend to use embedded machines - PC/104, CompactPCI, etc. These systems are essentially the same technology as desktop machines, the same processors, memory, etc, but have a smaller footprint and tend to use less power. They are remarkably robust. We've had CPU boards that are actually flooded, with the power on. You turn everything off, douse it with WD-40 to dry it out (WD-40 was originally developed to prevent water-based corrosion in electronics, *not* as a lubricant), let it sit for 24 hours, and more often than not it's just fine.
The lesson from this I think is that unless the machine is going to be actually in the spray from the boat, you're going to be okay with a quality out-of-the-box desktop machine. Put one of those rubber membranes over the keyboard - keyboards do tend to die when they get wet. If the machine gets significantly wet, dry it out and maybe hit it with WD-40 or some other water repellant. Other than that don't worry about it.
Computers in Coastal Environments (Score:2)
It's expensive and nominally rated to last up to 24 hours in a salt-spray environment. In reality they don't hold up so well, and are always crashing. Screens and keyboards are particularly vulnerable. The failure time on them probably isn't worth the additional cost. Plus they're kinda slow. Fast, cheap (disposable-cheap) and out of control would probably have been a better choice.
More problems than you might think (Score:5, Informative)
Putting a PC inside of a completely sealed enclosure is not always a good thing because you need to cool it down, and this is usually done with fans, so unless you also want to install an air conditioner in the side of the enclosure, you might want to find a ruggedized PC.
There are some very sturdy ruggedized laptops out there which can apparently be dunked in the ocean, pulled out and keep going, but I think they might be cost prohibitive for you.
Recently at a trade show I saw some industrial PCs that you could literally hose down with a garden hose and they would keep running. However, you're probably looking at $5000 even for a base model of one of those. Just look up "industrial PC" on the internet if you're interested.
Perhaps your best bet is to search the internet for oceanographic research groups. These guys go out to sea with tonnes of electronic equipment for months/years at a time, and they seem to make out alright, probably on restrictive budgets. If you write a nice email to one of these people, they might be kind enough to offer you some real advice.
Re:More problems than you might think (Score:2)
You could probably play Space Invaders. Maybe Zork.
Pick a dry spot (Score:5, Interesting)
I just returned from the Pacific Cup [pacificcup.org] race from San Francisco, CA to Kaneohe, HI and was in charge of the computers. We carried two laptops primarily as backup and to use with the Iridium phone but the main computer was a Capuccino [thinkgeek.com] from Think Geek [thinkgeek.com].
We mounted a Tote Vision [totevision.com] monitor on an adjustable arm at the nav station and controlled it with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse. The Tote also includes a TV receiver so you can eliminate one other piece of equipment.
For our use we needed more serial ports so we got a USB-serial converter box which gave us a total of one on the PC plus 4 external. For the race we collected HF weatherfax using mScan meteo software. The software controlled an ICOM PCR-1000 general coverage receiver via. the serial port and used the internal sound card to receive the weatherfax data.
Another serial port was dedicated to the B&G tactician software to B&G instrument connection.
The next port provided NMEA GPS input to the Nobletec navigation program and another provided general NMEA instrument data to Nobletec (the Nobletec software can display maps as well as a console with wind info, boat speed, heading, water temperature and whatever else your instruments collect).
Finally, another port sent NMEA navigation info back from Nobletec to the onboard instruments for display to the driver (range/bearing to waypoint, cross track error, etc.)
The whole thing worked great (we won our division!).
The advice is somewhat obvious - keep the computer dry. We mounted the PC and Icom behind the breaker panel as electrical areas are generally pretty dry on a boat. The whole thing runs on 12v so we didn't need to run the ship's inverter. (Capuccino uses a 12v-18v adapter, Tote is 12v native. The Canon printer is 13.6v and worked great only when the batteries were fully charged).
Heat build-up is a problem on hot days or in the tropics so we added a fan to pull air through the instrument/electrical compartments. This solved our heat-related crashes.
Access to the computer requred twisting two screw latches so it was pretty easy but not convenient if you need to access the CD a lot. It's likely that you could find a spot near your nav table to mount the mini-PC where you could access the disk easily.
I know many people who live and work on their boats. Most use laptops but one uses regular PCs with a huge LCD monitor. None have really had any trouble but they don't leave the computers where they are exposed to the elements. Usually a boat that is large enough to live on has some dry areas.
As to the other question, you need industrial electronic enclosures. I don't recall which companies make them but my former roommate worked on systems that were used in food packing and they used standard enclosures designed to withstand the 180 degree 1000psi pressure wash that they used to clean the processing equipment. Google??
Don't Worry About It (Score:2, Informative)
Anyways, my point is that unless you want to put a system on the deck of the ship, you don't need any special hardware. Your system will become obsolete before it is damaged.
Arg.
Use IEC-945 (Score:5, Informative)
For example, there is a special RF emissions curve that you need to meet to be sure that you are not preventing your radios from hearing weak emergency calls. Also, power on ships is VERY problematic. Just what does "Ground" really mean on a ship? I saw 100 V potiental between Ground and Neutral on a US carrier. And you do not want to know what all of this does to RF shielding. While RF may be no big deal on shore, remember that you are using radar and all kinds of radio communications on board ship. One thing that kept surprising me was the levels of ESD on board. I assumed that the moist marine air and metal decks would kill any ESD, but I had to keephaving to over building ESD protection for our keyboard. The other kicker is that the ship has to be kept in electrical "balance" with the sea to keep the metal from coroding into the sea.
Another area of the spec that surprised us was vibration. The shake and vibe spec on IEC-945 is a bear to pass. We started with a standard industrial chassis resting on shock mounts in the base of our console. We put that on the shake table and it killed the PC dead. The vibration was so bad that it caused the fingers of the backplane connectors to cut through the daughter cards. I was seeing fiber glass poking through the gold fingers when I did a post mortum. As an EE I learned that intuative answers are not good enough for the "real-world" mechanicals and that you need to hire a shake and vibe ME to make it work. (As an asside I had a friend who had his 36 ft sail boat out in the ocean and hit a standing wave that rattled his boat so hard that it shattered his ceraic head. Gotta wonder what the impulse was on that hit)
There are also a host of other issues such as fungus that will grow inside warm enclosures and choke-off ventalation
You should be able to buy IEC 945 PCs if that's all you need (HP used to sell some). If you really need this hardware to survive buy real IEC 945 hardware if you can live without it (and I do mean live) then go buy some laptop and assume that it is disposable. You'll pay through the nose for this level of hardware, but it will be cheaper and much quicker than doing it yourself.
-s
Three Months ago... (Score:2)
You need a shock absorber too (Score:2)
More Q & A (Score:2)
A: Foolish hu-man, you have watched too much star trek!
Q: Fine, well, how about this? (Splash!)
A: Salt water! My plans... foiled... circuits... failing...
Q: How do you like them apples?
A: does not compute... does not compute....
Q: Huh?
A: Hah! Sucker! Fortunately, the foolish geeks who created me, little realizing I would go insane and destroy them, made be durable enough to resist salt water!
Q: Er... when you conquer the world, can I have Australia?
A: No.
MIL solution (Score:2)
A tad expensive. Even the government is tending towards COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) solutions. Ruggidized versions of commercial equipment for use at locations that won't be in the thick of battle. Not everybody on board ship needs a computer that you can dunk in the ocean. Some vendors: IBI Systems [ibi-systems.com], DAP Technologies [daptech.com], BSI [bsicomputer.com]. I'm not endorsing these companies -- I've been away from that business for too long, but see what they have.
But check the price. It really may be cheaper to get an inexpensive laptop, one with an all-inclusive extended warrenty, keep it wrapped in plastic when not in use, and assume that it'll corrode away to nothing eventually.
Lots of options (Score:3, Informative)
The second one didn't go very far, but I was exposed to existing submersible technology. They take a metal bottle, place the machine in there and connect it to pass throughs in the top. Before they put the top on and then fill it with oil at the same time making sure all of the air bubbles are removed. This includes making sure chips like EPROMs are not used. So long as all the voids are filled with oil, this thing can apparently go down quite a ways.
There are also makers of industrial rated computers for harsh environments. In general the parts are about 18 months behind the curve (price and performance), and there is a few thousand dollars tacked onto the chasis type components. On the flip side you get things like monitor's with half an inch of Lexan protecting the screen
Computers usually stand up well (Score:2)
A laptop would probably work just fine. Just keep it dry. That's usually easy to do on a sailboat. Use it in the cabin.
You're going to need a lot of 12 volt batteries though, if you plan on being disconnected from land power for any extended period. It's cheap enough to get a DC to AC inverter, but it's going to suck the batteries dry pretty quick.
The salt air will eventually corrode the machine, but I don't think you're going to find a way around that. I think if you have an expectation of a 2-3 year life, your expectations will be met. Otherwise you're really talking about a fairly expensive or difficult to build rig to keep it isolated and protected.
For those that mentioned water colling, remember, water cooling requires a hell of a lot more power than a CPU fan. This guy's running off of car batteries. Water cooling requires a water pump. Air pumps (also known as fans) are much more energy efficient.
Re:Computers usually stand up well (Score:2)
Otherwise, I don't see how the hull of the boat is going to act to cool the CPU. It's not like you can run wires from the CPU pins to the motherboard (there would be a nice stable site, hundreds of wires going from your hull to your motherboard).
The site you listed has something to do with geological formations in the ocean. There's not much about how this "modern invention" cools CPUs. Got a better link?
Arrrr, matie (Score:2)
You should be concerned about pirates!
Try Advantech (Score:2)
I was looking at using an Advantech [advantech.com] specialized panel PC system for a harsh environment application a while back, but I can't remember what the model number was. Anyway, here's a breakdown of its specs:
Operating Temperatures: -20C to +60C
Their catalog had a picture of this thing running underwater, I'd take that with a very large grain of salt. Hope this helps!Storage Temperatures: -40C to +75C
Relative Humidity: 99% condensing
Salt Spray Tolerance: 5% at 38C for 48 hours
Chemical Splash Tolerance: diesel fuel, oil, other automotive/machinery chemicals
Vibration Tolerance: any axis, 24-2 kHz at 8G RMS (non-shock isolated)
Shock Tolerance: 10G, fixtured
Waterproofing: sealed to ±35kPa (±5 psi) vs. water/water vapor
Electrostatic Tolerance: 15 kV discharge on any pin, air gap and conductive
Military standard (Score:3, Informative)
Also, google produces many results for "rugged(ized) computers" if you want to buy something particularly hardcore straight out of the box.
I'm disappointed (Score:2)
Come ON people!
Shipboard power (electricity) (Score:3, Interesting)
The guarantee for shipbaord power is very different from your standard land-based poewr company. Shipboard power is (or at least was 15 years ago) guaranteed as "the difference between these 2 wires is 120Volts, at 60Hz". Note that carefully. No reference to what the actual voltage levels will be, just the voltage difference between the 2 wires.
Most computer power supplies assume "the difference between these 2 wires is 120Volts (actually 116volts, I think) AND the actual voltage levels will be approximately 0volts and 120volts".
The Navy burned out a lot of computer power supplies before some bright boy realized this. Having voltage levels of -80volts and +40volts did bad things.
There's a reason MILSPEC costs as much as it does.
Of course, if you're looking to power it off a 12VDC line, this isn't really a concern, is it?
Article on this topic (Score:4, Informative)
This issue also contains the news that you no longer need to go to all the way Caracas for LASIK surgery in Venezuela. I know I feel better knowing that!
I did it for the US Navy (Score:3, Interesting)
In general, the requirements for these systems are unreal. Among other things, they have to be able to handle 100G's of shock and vibration (I'm not a Mechanical Engineer, but that sounds damn extreme to me). This pretty much means no moving parts, so hard drives have to be solid-state. We went with a solid-state PCMCIA card that looks like a hard-drive to the system for our boot drive. A trackball was used instead of a mouse for the control device, the keyboard was built into the cabinet, and the whole cabinet was fitted huge shock absorbers under it and inside it.
One GUI vendor was disqualified on the sole basis that they required a dongle which would have needed all sorts of extra bracing to keep it from snapping off. That's about the best example I've ever seen of copy-protection costing someone sales.
Porn browsers could use these systems too. (Score:2)
Tandy M100 (Score:2)
I live in Houston...humid and hot... (Score:3, Funny)
A LOT depends on the size of the vessel... (Score:3, Interesting)
Lots of suggestions about just keeping a computer somewhere dry but in a small sailboat, bare minimum for one person to live aboard for an extended period? Good luck finding anywhere that doesnt accumulate salt deposits over time if its open to the atmosphere. Problem is, once those deposits are there (even if they are not visible to the eye) that surface will never be truly dry, even on the hottest day. Nowhere is safe. The best deckheads develop persistent small leaks over time, particularly near the gunwales or worse still by the foot of a deck-stepped mast. Most "watertight" hatches on sailboats only qualify for that name on the grounds that if you get a wave over the deck most of it will drain off rather than go through. Assuming the craft goes anywhere other than the occasional brief trip around the harbour the phrase "dry stowage" on a boat this size is at best a relative term.
Now look at larger vessels. In general if they are large enough to have a genuine superstructure (ie you can be "indoors" with your feet no lower then deck level) then you stand a chance of keeping dry stowage dry and might get away with trying to protect a regular machine.
The harder you sail the worse it is of course. The engineers that have posted are absolutely right about the impacts and vibes and again the larger vessels have it easier (If your deckhead doesnt leak now, dont worry. After a couple of seasons pounding like this, it will.) At one point I saw the same piece of (genuine marine-quality) electronics installed on 2 craft. One was the 24-footer that my dad & I sailed all over the Irish Sea, the other was 42-foot motor-sailer that a friend had. My dad & I raced in ours, our friend took leisurely coastal cruises, so long as the weather forecast was perfect. Guess which piece of electronics died first?
Re:Finally! (Score:2)
Re:Finally! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Finally! (Score:3, Funny)
Are you referring to the "keep the computer cool" part?
If so, then yes, we have a winner
Re:Another factor of concern... (Score:2)
I guess... (Score:2)
Don't need a 12 volt LCD (Score:2)
Re:display? (Score:2)
More info here: http://www.cctvproducts.com/cormplcdtft1.html [cctvproducts.com]
Former Litton Marine Systems Employee speaks. (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes. Imagine HP Vectra computers on shock-proof feet to protect them from engine vibrations. We often used to use these as part of our ISIS engine management systems in engine control rooms: hot, steamy, smelling of saltwater and diesel fuel.
The Vectras lasted just fine. I think any other quality computer would, too. The biggest killer is the vibrations; the heat, humidity and salt are no worse than if you lived in, say, Tampa, with no air conditioning.
Equipment specifically built for a marine environment is always very tough, but that's the same for almost anything sold to industry instead of consumers. Industry more often wants quality; consumers claim they want quality and then run out and buy Samsung TV sets.
Here's a radar system with a 68000-based computer doing the video processing. [glowingplate.com] Here's a Great Lakes bulker, pretty small potatoes in the marine world, [glowingplate.com] yet it still has a diesel engine approximately four stories tall [glowingplate.com].
Re:Former Litton Marine Systems Employee speaks. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Former Litton Marine Systems Employee speaks. (Score:3, Informative)
And these things are built for saltwater, unlike off-the-shelf computers. OTOH, the autopilot would be on deck next to the tiller, so exposed to saltwater spray pretty much 24x7. The cabin would be a little more protected - there might be condensation dripping from the ceiling, but it shouldn't be salty... Still, if it's mission critical (like how you get your weather reports), it's going to be hard keeping that computer going.
Fool With a Broken Laptop (Score:5, Insightful)
Virg
Re:The ultimate nerd pornography: (Score:2)
That'd certainly be a way to test your computer in the above-cited type of salty environment.