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Graphics Software

Reducing TCO of an Inkjet Printer? 77

Posted by Cliff from the lowering-the-lifetime-pricetag dept.
AtariDatacenter asks: "Everyone knows that inkjet printers are cheap, but the cartridges cost a bundle. I was trying to find one with the lowest total cost of ownership for a modest twenty or so pages a week. This PC Magazine article kind of takes this on, but with a small sample group. Are there any printers today that should be avoided? Is ink reducing software like inkSaver as good as they claim?" Inkjets have a lot of drawbacks when it comes to laser printers except one thing: the initial price. When it comes to printing lots of text that you intend to keep for an indefinite period of time, which works out better over the short-term and long-term? I've already had Inkjet printers die after a few years of normal usage, are laser printers any better?
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Reducing TCO of an Inkjet Printer? More

Reducing TCO of an Inkjet Printer?

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  • Continuous ink systems (Score:3, Informative)

    by eXtro ( 258933 ) on Saturday August 03, 2002 @01:14AM (#4003453) Homepage
    You can buy extremely high quality ink (or cheap ink) in bulk and use a continuous ink system. A lot of professional shops make use of these. Once I run the free cartridge that came with my Epson 1280 out I'll be adding one to my system.

    The ink becomes a lot cheaper. I'll be using the archival inks from inkjetmall.com [inkjetmall.com] as well as their continuous ink system.
    • But if you only print a couple pages a week the CIS system doesn't pay for itself. Plus the worst thing is the less you use it the more it gets gunked up. That is AFAIK. If you plan on only printing 20 pages/week or month then definately do a little more digging before investing. On the other hand, if you're like me, with a digital camera and time to burn, a CIS system is awesome! But the local Walmart may be able to beat it depending on your desired output... Hrm...
      • Another problem with a CIS is that most of the available inks are formulated for prepress proofing --- their more color accurate and color fast than consumer inks, tend to be tougher and are more demanding of the stock they're printed on. All fine if you're proofing or really anal about your digital photos, but the lifetime TCO is often greater than the disposable carts.
    • Thanks for pointing me to inkjetmall. I had looked around a while back, but was unable to find 3rd-party inks that interested me. Now, there are some really interesting offerings.

  • The cheapest way??? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by OneFix ( 18661 ) on Saturday August 03, 2002 @01:29AM (#4003489)
    I don't know if this is cheaper, but I do it this way...

    First, find the cheapest printer [salescircular.com] you can...Circuit City has the Lexmark Z25 for $39.99 after rebate this week, but a better deal is at Office Max...Hewlett Packard DeskJet 825C for $49.99 (no rebate required), plus it's USB and it also comes with a free USB cable ($15 value).

    And, don't worry about the speed of the printer, because if you wanted speed you'ld be buying a Laser Printer for much more $$$.
    Then make sure you buy one of the InkJet refill kits...WalMart and CompUSA sell a Universal kit for Color and Black (seperately), but if you go to a Computer Show, you can buy a huge kit that should last you a while for the cost of both.

    Now, sit back as the Printer pays for itself in saved cartridges. I don't know about you, but I'm reluctant to use refills on a $200 printer, but have no problems with doing it to a $50 printer. Most cartridges can be refilled 2 or 3 times before they go bad...this means that after only 6 refills, the printer should have paid for itself...

    A few notes, in general, stay away from Lexmark and No-Name printers...try to stick with HP, Cannon, Epson, etc.

    And don't worry about speed or resolution, if you wanted that, you'ld be buying a Laser Printer, and $$$ wouldn't be your first concern.

    The whole idea of this is that Moore's Law works for you here...by the time you need to get a new printer, you can get something much better for the lower price...
    • First, find the cheapest printer [salescircular.com] you can...Circuit City has the Lexmark Z25 for $39.99 after rebate this week, but a better deal is at Office Max...Hewlett Packard DeskJet 825C for $49.99 (no rebate required), plus it's USB and it also comes with a free USB cable ($15 value).

      It's worth mentioning that you should do your refill research before you pick the printer. A few of the cheaper printers (and many of the more expensive HP ones) have chips or fuses in a circuit on the print cartridge which tells it to expect no more than a certain amount of ink to thwart refills, or that the cart should be invalidated permanently.

      Remember that printer manufacturers don't make money on low-end inkjets. They all but give them away, hoping to make their money back on expensive cartridges. And they're going to do all they can to try and prevent you from going elsewhere for 'em.

      • Agreed, but all you have to do is make sure that aftermarket refills are available for it...I don't know of many printers that you cant refill the cartridge at least twice.
        • Actually, many HP units had (still have?) bags of ink inside, compressed by metal leaf springs. If you puncture the cartridge to attempt a refill, it won't work. If you puncture the cartridge and the bag inside, you're in for a surprise when the ink all comes squirting out the hole afterward.
          • But, that's only if you damage the "bag". I never said it was an idiot-proof process...but then again, many ppl still do it (and I've yet to have a problem). The only thing you really have to remember is to replace the cartridge when you've refilled after the third time...I have a method where I made stickers that I place on the cartridge with boxes to cross off...I know when the last one is crossed off, it can't be refilled again. You should also make sure that you buy the HP cartridges and not the aftermarket cartridges because they are usually no good for refills.
      • They all but give them away, hoping to make their money back on expensive cartridges.

        Exactly. So if you can find a color inkjet for $49.95, buy a couple of them. If its $24.95 for the black cartridge and $34.95 for the color cart, then you'll be saving money. Not to mention the fact being a cheap low-end printer its probably better to replace it every couple of months anyway.
        • They all but give them away, hoping to make their money back on expensive cartridges.
          Exactly. So if you can find a color inkjet for $49.95, buy a couple of them. If its $24.95 for the black cartridge and $34.95 for the color cart, then you'll be saving money. Not to mention the fact being a cheap low-end printer its probably better to replace it every couple of months anyway

          Careful. The cartridges included with HP printers are only filled half way.

          • so? (Score:2)

            by CMiYC ( 6473 )
            Careful. The cartridges included with HP printers are only filled half way.

            And your point is what? It doesn't matter if the carts are filled half-way or filled entirely. When they run out you are still going to have to drop $50+ to replace them. So why bother buying full carts for over $50 when you can simply buy an entire printer for $50? I'd rather just keep replacing my printer. Personally I (and I suspect many people) don't print enough that it makes a difference how full the carts are. I pratically have to buy new ones everytime I need to print something since the ink has dried up.
            • Yeah, but the new carts are going to last twice as long as the ones that came with the printer. Using your method, one would spend twice as much since he's getting half the use out of it.

  • Theft (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Get one that uses the same cartigages as where you work.
    • If you work at a place so poorly managed that they allow people to have 'cheap' (but horrendously expensive to keep running) InkJet printers, instead of far lower cost networked Laser Printers, you'll do better to quit and find a more successful company to work at. You'll more than make up the cost of a few inkjet cartridges in profit sharing and raises.

      • I know of at least 4 major banks that have cheap and shitty inkjet printers for their workers (they also have larger laser printers, but not for use by people with local inkjets.)
  • I've Noticed printers for under $50 for sale all over the place and I own one. The refills for my printer cost about $60 for colour and $50 for black (it uses 2 cartridges side by side) and i've been thinking if it comes with 2 free cartridges why not buy a new one every time you run of of ink and sell the old one on e-bay. -Ben
    • There's a very good reason why not just buy a new printer each time.

      With cheap printers ( 200$), the cartridges are only 1/3 to 1/2 full. So you'd end up paying 40$ for a half full or one third full cartridge. That's not saving yourself some money.
      • >So you'd end up paying 40$ for a half full or one third full cartridge.

        Yeah, but since they're colour you get two cartridges, which evens it all out to zero benefit; Except, you do get a new printer rather than a worn out printer, and free electronics crap (like a bonus power supply) which can be useful for projects.

        Not to mention these printers are often rediculously low priced -- I bought a crappy Apollo printer for $10 6 months ago at Future Shop (and them's $CDN). I wish I had gotten 10 just for the free cartidges and power supplies!

  • Lasers (Score:1)

    by jmd! ( 111669 )
    One thing to consider for laser printers for home use, at least in my experiance with older HP LaserJets... they will dim your rooms lights every 10-15 mins as they power up to warm the toner. I worry what this does to the poor PC feeding off this power.

  • Sometimes I wonder about PC Magazine. Sometimes I wonder if they have hidden agendas. Here's a quote from the article:

    "We've added $25 for the cost of the USB printer cable..."

    USB cables are less than $3.00 wholesale. If PC Magazine is helping us, why is it helping retailers make outrageous profits on cables?
    • Sadly, the figure isn't that unreleastic. Your local Staples or Circuit City will probably charge that much for the cable, knowing that most people, having just paid a lot for a printer, will pay the premium rather than shop around.

      Same goes for their extended warrantees and a number of other "useful" accessories.

      • They could prepare their readers. (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        And that's a trick in which PC Magazine participates, rather than tell their readers to prepare for the attempted rip-off and tell them where to get cheap cables.
  • I've already had Inkjet printers die after a few years of normal usage, are laser printers any better?

    While I swear by HP business printers in general for sheer rock solid stability and longevity (note the phrase "business printers" there), the one model that is starting to scare me is the Hewlett-Packard LaserJet III. Those monsters are the size of several modern sedans, and the *will* *not* *stop*. I keep seeing them in offices - sometimes not in use, in a supply closet, whereupon I'll ask and be told "yeah, it works fine when we last plugged it in, we just got new printers". I swear that to stop one of these things, you have to freeze it and ship it to the Arctic.

    --
    Evan

    • I'll second that. I've got an LJ III sitting in the closet, which worked fine when last used.

      It does need a new paper feed roller, but that should be cheap or easily salvaged from a surplus machine.
      • >It does need a new paper feed roller

        You can squeeze some more life out of a worn out LJII/III feed roller by scoring it in a cross-hatch pattern with a sharp knife. Add some rubber renew and you might get another year out of it (I know I have).

        I love these printers. I would swear they are the most sturdiest and reliable printers ever made. I've never had a jam that's required more effort than opening the lid. Too bad the new HP laser printers absolutely suck (when they jam badly you'll need to dissassemble much of the printer. BLECH! Not to mention the new abundance of plastic were plastic doesn't belong)
        • Too bad the new HP laser printers absolutely suck (when they jam badly you'll need to dissassemble much of the printer. BLECH! Not to mention the new abundance of plastic were plastic doesn't belong)
          Uh. On what model do you have to "dissassemble much of the printer" to remove a paper jam?
          • This [www.hp.ca] expensive piece of plastic.

            At my college, working for computer services, we would get up to 4,000 pages a day out of trusty laserjet 5s (which are still a little to plasticky for my liking) and I would remove a jam once a month (approximately). However, on the laserjet 5000s we would usually pump through about 1,000 - 2,000 pages a day and we'd be clearing jams once or twice a month, most of which were stuck inside the printer underneath the drum area (I wish I could be more specific, but I'm not the best printer repair guy :)

            A poorly built printer, the HP 5000, IMHO. And it costs a hell of a lot to boot.
            • Does the page concertina at all? If so its probably the registration.. either way if its under warranty you can call up and HP will send someone out to fix it..
              at least here..
    • This is definitely true. I've got LJ III units here at home that are 10+ years old but still work fine. It's amazing how heavily built they are (55lbs), but I suppose you get what you pay for sometimes - IIRC, it retailed for ~$2000 when it was sold from 1990-1992.
    • I had three concerns when looking for a printer:
      • It had to print well under Linux
      • I wanted to use colour most of the time
      • Ink replacement had to be cheap-ish
      That said, I selected the Epson Colour Stylus 670, used Mandrake (right after they upgraded to using CUPS), and bought those colour refill kits another poster mentioned.

      I killed it in 14 months. I did a lot of printing, and the print heads were completely shot by the very end.

      I've thrown out that printer. I've used plenty of printers over the years, and I have to second JabberWokky's assertions. Essentially, LJIIIs render colour printing unnecessary, and my old objections have no relevance today.

      LJIIIs *are* built like tanks, and the technologies behind them are very well understood now. The fact that HP supports Linux doesn't hurt, either. True, they don't print colour, and new cartridges can be expensive. However, refurbished cartridges aren't dear any longer, and if I had just found an old LJIII I'm sure it would still be in use. You can often find them at auction houses, or in the classifieds, or eBay.

      Upshot, get a used LJIII and print a test page or two to check the quality. You probably will be satisfied.

    • Know what's even cooler?

      You can fit the guts of an LJIII into an LJII (which I've found seems to survive surplus joints a little bit better). As a bonus, the "online" LED flashes as the printer receives data (at least when using the TCP/IP ethernet adapter -- YES, I do have one of these rare expensive beasts and I love it). Using LJIII guts gives you a slight quality improvement and about 5x more speed. :-)

    • There is a computer recycling / used computer store in Seattle called RePC. [repc.com] They buy stuff from companies (or charge 'em to haul the crap away) dust it off, and then sell it.

      While browsing through their printers, I found a HP 5si/MX with the printer test page taped to the top... the page count was over 500,000. When I remarked on its' long and presumably rough life, the reply was "Oh, that's a young one! They usually don't wear out until about 2 million pages."

      DAMN.

      I had the misfortune to have to install some of those monsters when they were new... they came in on a 1/4-size oak pallet, and had to be moved by (1) a pallet jack, or (2) two burly men or three IT geeks. (They weigh well over 300 pounds.)

      Personally, I have a LaserJet 4+ upgraded to 16MB RAM, and a IIIP with 5MB. They've served me for... good Lord, almost 5 and 8 years, respectively! I bought the 4+ used, and I've never had to replace the toner cartridge... so for 5 years of use it has cost me $150. (I think that's what I paid for it...)

      The only desire to upgrade that I have experienced is when I found HP's LaserJet 8550 series -- color, prints on 11x17 paper. The 8000 series is the replacement for the 5si, so these things put out something on the order of 25 pages/minute B&W, and perhaps 1/4 that when using color. The estimated cost per page? About 3 cents, not including the purchase price of the machine.

      As for me, I'll be looking for a used one. (Probably about 3 years from now.)

      • 8550 (Score:2)

        by crisco ( 4669 )
        We've got an 8550 at work and it is a nice printer. It takes a bit to get the first page out, especially if you've let the power save mode kick in. If you get one get the ethernet adapter for it, those nice full color prints take forever over the parallel port.
        • God, yes ill testify to that. Ive sorely learnt not to hit print and go to the printer straight away :) That said, its a fine machine and jsut keeps on printing, even after it was thrown off the back of a lorry........
      • We have a HP5 at work (can't remember the exact model). The header page shows that this printer already printed 1.2 million pages, probabl and should hit the 2 million page mark sometimes next Spring. What do we do? It's a computer science research lab. People here invent tomorrow's computer systems (well at least a little bit), but our office is still full of paper. So much for the paperless office...
      • two burly men or three IT geeks. (They weigh well over 300 pounds.)

        I'm confused--the two burly men weigh 300 pounds (not really all that much) or the three geeks weigh 300 pounds (just about right)?

    • Too bad their configuration interface and network support sucks as much as it did eight years ago if you aren't running windows. Do yourself a favor and get a QMS if you're looking for a new printer.
    • I'm not surprised. I'm still running a LaserJet II... it does need to have the paper feed serviced, but it prints as cleanly as it did back in the pre-Windows era in which it was built. When I say pre-Windows... the docs contained NO reference to ANY Windoze version.

      Too bad all that's left of the company that built that is the brand name.

    • I used to work for a company that did warranty repair for HP. I went in to many offices to repair LJIII's. And the most frequent comment I'd get from the secretary was "This is the first time we've ever had to have it fixed". And usually I was fixing something simple like a worn pickup roller, or a blown fuser.

      I would love to have one, but I wouldn't have any room in my house to put it. Besides, they're so old, they don't have USB ports for my Mac. :-)
      • And usually I was fixing something simple like a worn pickup roller, or a blown fuser.

        That is usually what goes wrong with most laser printers of any brand. Pickup rollers and fusers wear out. They make up 90% of the calls.
    • Yeah, and the same for the HPLJ II -- even in an environment of malignant neglect, they'll usually outlive their owners.

      BTW, the HPLJ IIISi was M$'s printer of choice in the Win3.1/95 era, as evidenced by its driver being referenced in all the template files that shipped with Word.

      And if you're having trouble with some off-brand laser printer, try one of those two drivers (HPLJ2 or 3Si) as most printers emulate one or the other.

    • I have one of these tanks that's just about to re-enter service, replacing a dying Canon inkjet one twentieth its age. The only reason it left service was because of an ominous "50 Service Error" that kept popping up on the screen.

      Now, some months later my friendly neighborhood Linux users' group pointed me to:

      http://www.fixyourownprinter.com [fixyourownprinter.com]

      And apparently this is a very common problem with LJII/LJIII printers and is due to a failing AC power supply. Makes sense. It's not like this thing has ever seen nice clean UPS power. ;-)

      Once I scrape up $70, that LJIII will be back and printing...
  • Step 1. Rent Office Space.

    Step 2. Beat the hell out of your inkjet while listening to gangsta rap.

    Step 3. Find a decent used HP laserjet. Older 'office model' HPs are built like tanks. I've found a few with page counts into the 100-200 thousand range that still print fine. Look around and you can find refurbed IIs, IIIs, and 4Ps for about a hundred bucks. With a bit more effort you can pick up free IIs and IIIs from small offices cleaning their closets. They might need a fuser or rollers but the work is easy and the parts are usually cheap.

    On a 4P (the personal sized version of the 4 series) the toner lasts about 4000 pages. At 20 pages a week you can get nearly four years out of a $70 toner cartrige. Since a lot of refurbs come with some toner, you might spend a hundred bucks for the printer and be printing for a couple of years.

    Now that is a reduced TCO...

    • 100-200k pages is the first scheduled maintenance for most high volume laserjets like the 8500's. These tanks can make it into the millions of pages before enough stuff starts to break that it's not worth fixing. I don't know what the life in pages of a LJ3 is, but the life in years is about as old as I am =) (not really since I'm 23, but close enough)
  • OK, I'm only posting here 'cos, I was trying to moderate a post in this thread and it turns out I fingered someone as "Redundant" when I was trying for "Insightful", so the only way to erase that is to post in this thread.

    I got nothing to add to this thread but the lesson here is, don't "moderate" when you're tired...
  • I'm using an IBM 4019 laser printer. This printer is easily nearly as old as I am -- it was originally hooked up to some type of a 286, than an IBM PS/2, and now to my system.

    The 2MB of onboard RAM isn't a lot, and it only has 3 fonts onboard, but the toner cartridge (While costing about $100) is good for between 10,000 and 15,000 pages.

    I believe the printer cost $999 when new. It hasn't needed a single replacement part (not even new toner -- same toner it came with) since purchase. Of course, your mileage may vary. Older equipment seems to have been designed to last longer because it was more expensive -- you couldn't afford to replace a printer if it broke, you got it fixed, and they designed them not to break.

    Now a days, everything is field replaceable -- which usually means swap the whole unit out for a working one. Cheaper that way.
    • Getting a new laser can also be worthwhile. I got a Brother HL-1440 recently and it's brilliant: works perfectly with Linux, powersaves, quick, and doesn't take up any more desk space than an inkjet.
    • I'm a believer in HP laser printers, but I have to say--Samsung has come out with what look like reasonable, dirt-cheap printers for less than $200. I got one for my sister, and it runs great. I see now at CompUSA that there's a Samsung laser printer going for $129....
  • It beat anything I know of but a continuous ink system.

    However, the series is really old (1992 or so?) and mine really needs a new pickup roller. 720 dpi if you can wait...

    I remember tests showing 100% coverage of over 125 pages in colour before the cartridge ran out. Black was more. And at just $25-$30 a cartridge, the price is right.

    Basically, what I'm saying is look for a printer with BIG cartridges, and check the price of 'em. This printer had the largest cartridges I've ever seen for under $40 and I was happy to buy it, even if it was $700 or so at the time!

    For some reason (greed, I suppose) cartridges have gotten punier and punier over time. I expect eventually they'll be the size of coins and cost $100. :-(

  • Priorities? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Raetsel ( 34442 ) on Saturday August 03, 2002 @07:30AM (#4004094)

    20 pages a week? That's a resonably substansial amount of printing.
    1. In color, an inkjet will cost you (rough estimate) $2 to $3/week at that rate. That's not taking the cost of special paper into account. (Ask yourself if you need color -- what are you going to use it for?)
    2. At the same rate, a used LaserJet will cost you roughly 50 for the same number of pages.

      Really important point:

    3. Laser printers produce a lot better output on cheap paper. Inkjets sometimes require paper that costs more than blank CD-Rs! ($1.00/sheet for photo quality paper!)
    There certainly are reasons for an inkjet, too. You can't beat the entry price, but it's a Gillette business model -- lose money on the razors (printer), make (lots!) of money on the blades (ink). I recently heard tell a rumor about a disposable (recyclable?) inkjet -- the whole printer was cheaper than 2 replacement cartridges! (Ouch!)

    If you really need color, an inkjet is hard to beat.

    • HP Inkjet printers can "mix" ink to create better-blended colors on a page. (I don't think they're alone in this capability, either.) HP calls it "Color Layering" -- it works because injets dyes and pigments aren't completely opaque, where laserprinter toner is.

    • Color laser printers are limited to placing 4 different colors of toner next to each other and letting your eye perceive something that's not really there. Sure, you could stack pixels just like an inkjet, but instead of blending colors, you'd just see the one on top (best case), or a melted brown smear (worst case).

    • Other side of the coin: Dyes fade. Pigments (for the most part) don't. This is why you can still dig out 20-year-old laserjet-printed material and it's perfectly readable. Print out a picture of your cat on an inkjet, leave it tacked up in your cube, and print out a new one -- same printer, same file -- a year later. You'll notice the fading.

      There are some inkjets moving to pigment-based instead of dye-based inks. (It's a premium expense, though.) The output from these is supposed to be colorfast for much longer periods, but I haven't seen this first-hand.

    Okay, last point: The Minolta (QMS) Magicolor 2200 color laser. Office Depot sells 'em for $999. [officedepot.com] Listed on Pricewatch (refurbished) for just shy of $800. 1200 x 600 dpi, 20 PPM B&W, 5 PPM Color. Even comes Ethernet-ready. Yes, it's expensive, but it seems like people drop that much on (new | upgrade) parts for their computer every 6 months.

    • I'm not sure where you shop, but if you pay $2-3 for twenty sheets of regular paper and $1 for photo paper, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

      Office Depot sells 500 sheets on inkjet paper [officedepot.com] for $5 and copier paper [officedepot.com] for $4. I bought 75 sheets of Premium Kodak Photo Paper for $20 at Sam's. Lasers may give better quality, but you'll pay for it.

      • The 2-to-3 dollar figure for 20 pages of printing isn't referring to the cost of paper. It refers to the cost of the consumables that are going on the paper. 10 cents a page, 20 pages... bang. $2. That's for some of the larger-capacity inkjets, too. For the (smaller | cheaper) printers, especially with HP's notorious "economy" refills (read: "screw you, we're selling you a printer with half-empty cartridges"), the cost can be as high as 15/page just for ink. 15 X 20 pages = $3.

        "Lasers may give better quality, but you'll pay for it."

        You get what you pay for. Yes, the cost of a new printer is higher. (Buy a used one, I did!) Yes, the cost to replace the toner cartridges is psychologically formidable. However, that $94 high-capacity cartridge for my LaserJet 4+ will last me for years, and is rated for (max) 8800 pages! (If I manage to get only half that many, that's still 2.1/page -- 4 to 5 times less than an inkjet!) Also, at 20 pages a week it will take you 4.2 years (!!!) to print 4400 pages.

        With penny-a-page paper you get very nice results from a laser printer. Run the same stuff through an inkjet and you will get some bleeding. Not a lot, but it's there. Your photo-quality paper cost you 26.6 per page on sale, and it's required if you want your maximum resolution. Ouch.

        Last thing: What happens when you need to print résumés? High-quality résumé paper contains cotton rag. I prefer one paper that's 75% rag, and it bleeds noticably when run through an inkjet. (Yes, I know the alternative -- find someone with a laser or go to Kinko's... but it's nice to have your own.)

    • The QMS printer is _NOT_ a very good printer. We tested a $10,000 CDN model quite thouroughly and could not get it to print any where near the resolution they advertise. Furthermore the printing speeds were no where near what was advertised either.

      on the other hand, the Okidata performs like a charm and was well worth the money spent. It also is in the CDN$10,000 range.
    • the hp 4600 while twice the cost of the magicolor works out to be 4 cents aa page cheaper on color then the magicoor

      • Well, it's good to know that printer sucks. I'd noticed them, but never really considered one. My reaction to seeing one was more of "Gee, would you look at that. Color laser for $1000. (I wonder what corners they had to cut?)" The features are moderately impressive, but (no surprise, really) they don't have 'em plugged in so you can get a demo page.

        Personally, I'd love to have an HP 8550 (11x17, 24 PPM, ~$7000), but I'll have to wait until (1) they hit the used market, or (2) I win the lottery.

        HP has a bunch of nice color lasers, and don't forget Xerox -- they've been doing the toner-on-paper thing for longer than I've been around. I imagine they have a few nice products as well.

        • The HP 8550 doesn't have quality like the HP 4500 series. They print a lot faster, but every one that i have seen prints a lot worse quality than their younger brother.
        • or better yet, i've seen xerox offers for laser color printers were you get black toner free for life (something like 2 cart. a month. so you sell your extra cart or whatever nesecery to cover the cost of the machine and the color carts :)

  • Don't mix ink types in Epsons! (Score:4, Informative)

    by inkfox ( 580440 ) on Saturday August 03, 2002 @08:13AM (#4004135) Homepage
    If you buy an Epson inkjet printer, throw away the ink that comes with it. Generic ink cartridges for the Stylus series can be had for under $2 per cartridge (yes, even the color ones) with one catch:

    Epson's ink congeals on contact with most generic inks and jams up the ink path, often irreparably. This problem is mega, since Epsons have the printing unit built into the printer, not the cartridge as with HP carts.

    I've not had a problem with mixing different kinds of generic ink however, so as long as an Epson never tastes an Epson cart, you're good to go.

    It's also worth mentioning that there are replacement assemblies available for the epsons, which use tubes going from specially modified print heads to individual pint-sized ink reservoirs which sit in a box beside the printer. If you get one of these, you can print something like ten thousand pages of color without refilling.

    • i found that the jet tec (http://www.jettec.com/)ink cartridges work quite well with epson printers. there was an article in c't, about different ink brands, too, they found jet tec ok, not the brightest colours, but the most compatible.

  • I own an Epson Stylus Color 640 printer and found that I can buy cartridges very inexpensively for this printer. A generic black cartridge costs $3.75 and color cartridge costs $4.50. I've had no problems with them and the print quality is good.

    http://www.lmcomp.com/printer-cartridges---generic -for-epson-inkjet-printers.html [lmcomp.com]

    Still, I only use this printer for low-volume printing, so costs are very low.

  • INKSAVER FAQ


    Q. How does InkSaver work?

    A. InkSaver uses patent pending technology to analyze and control printer data. InkSaver uses advanced algorithms, optimizing printer data so that less ink is laid down on the page and you save money every time you print.
    Well, that answers all my questions.

    Lemme see:
    Q. How does Bresenham's Algorithm work?

    A. Bresenham's Algorithm uses technology to analyze and control line data. It uses an advanced algorithm, optimzing line data so that less floating point is used everytime you draw a line.

    Oh, that answered my question.

    Don't call it a FAQ when it's a press release!
    • > InkSaver uses advanced algorithms, optimizing
      > printer data so that less ink is laid down on
      > the page.

      Yeah. That's why it is called InkSaver. It saves ink. Duh. Now HOW does it work?

      PS: I have no relation, direct or indirect to that company. It caught my eye only because it came up in my research as a piece of software designed to meter ink. If there are some good competitors (open source included, of course), I'd love to have options!
    • PS: The original question was --
      Is ink reducing software like inkSaver as good as they claim?

      I hate would-be FAQ mongers in Ask Slashdot, when there isn't a FAQ at all.
  • First off, I picked up couple used laser printers - a couple of HP laserjet 4M+ w/fonts, network, and extra ram for about $75 each. They are pretty quick, do a great job with black and white, and I will get many thousand pages of copy from the toner it came with, with refurbs running about $50 each when the time comes.

    On the bad side, these things take a fair amount of power. I plugged the thing into my wife's office and the UPS in my home's server room clicked on. DON'T EVER PLUG ONE INTO A UPS! You may have to run an extra line of power into the room.
  • Especially the old Apples and HPs... I know of lots of old Apple Laserwriter IIs that have been in constant office use for, well, what is it, 10 years now. Lots of metal parts -- they weigh a ton, too. If you keep them clean, they just go forever. The only trouble with these old tanks is that they're slow... newer laser printers may be faster (way more onboard memory, ethernet) but I wonder about the quality of the construction, plastic parts, etc.
  • Preferably on based on the Old Canon Laser Printer engine in the HP LaserJet II/III. These things run forever and cost $0.03/page to print plus electricity. They print well on okay paper. The print quickly. If you are running Linux I would recommend something like the Nec Silentwriter 2 290 or 990 which had postscript and PCL emulation. a2ps prints 8~9 pages a minute on my Nec without a problem.

    Chris
  • continuous inking systems allow you to modify your inkjet to use external pressure fed ink bottles. you can buy the ink by the pound(!), and only fill those colors which need refilling. most vendors also offer a range of specialty inks, and archival quality inks if you're a photographer trying to sell the print. google shows me a few like this:

    http://www.getink.com [getink.com]
    http://www.inkjetart.com/cis/index.html [inkjetart.com]
    http://www.nomorecarts.com [nomorecarts.com]
    http://mediastreet.com/n2 [mediastreet.com]
  • Well here is the simple 2-step solution I chose for this dilemma. 1) Determine just how much you really *need* color. For me the answer to this was mainly to print out digital photos or occasional projects for my son. The rest (vast majority) of my printing needs could be met with b&w/grayscale. 2)Keep your injet for above and purchase an inexpensive laser. I found that the Samsung ML 1210 works great...even grayscale and color links from the web (despite what some reviewers say). I got it for $129 after rebate from Best Buy(and, no, I don't work for BB).

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