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Education

What is the Value of a Second Major? 77

An Anonymous Student asks: "I am a senior in college, majoring in computer science. I only need two more CS classes to finnish a BS. But all along I have also been taking math classes and find that I am only three classes away from a finishing a BS in math as well. (We normally take nine classes a year) So Here is the question to people out in the real world: Is it worth it to get a second degree? Do employers or grad schools care about that stuff? or should I just take fun random stuff in my last year as an undergrad?"
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What is the Value of a Second Major?

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  • 2 majors (Score:2, Insightful)

    by pnutjam ( 523990 )
    I'd go for it, what will you miss out on if you buckle down for another semester? Compare that to what a hassle it will be to finish it later if you decide a double major is worth it.
    • Re:2 majors (Score:2, Insightful)

      by cbass377 ( 198431 )
      Now is the perfect time to go for it. The economy sucks major. You are not likely to get a good job (decent wage, in your preferred field) in less than 3-4 months. Might as well press on.
    • Re:2 majors (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mikehoskins ( 177074 )
      Put it this way. It can't hurt you. Secondly, it *could* help you.

      However, I understand that head hunters are saying you need three things in this economy to get a job:
      A BS/BA or better college diploma
      Experience
      Certification, of some sort

      Right now, there are a few kinds of skilled people submitting literally hundreds of resumes for the same job. They are getting these kinds of candidates:
      Degree + Experience, no Cert
      Cert + Experience, no Degree
      Degree + Cert, no Experience (rarely?)

      They rarely get the person with the Degree + Cert + Experience. Those are the people who get hired fastest -- soft skills notwithstanding.

      If you have all the elements above, a second BS can only help differentiate you from the next guy. Again, it may or may not help, but it can't hurt.

      You might not directly get compensated more than the next guy. However, you might actually land a job, while somebody equal in every other way might not.

      (The thing I lack is certification. Let's hope I don't get laid off.)
  • by prostoalex ( 308614 ) on Thursday September 12, 2002 @02:31PM (#4246249) Homepage Journal
    From my own experience I would say that having a certain degree just gets you in the door, but what's considered after that is the skill level and your ability to learn new things.

    Are the courses left adding to your skill level? Would you know something that you didn't know before? If your professional value increases, I would say take them.

    With all said above, another argument for getting a second degree would be the possibility of applying for all those jobs that have a required major, sometimes the employers won't even evaluate your resume if it says "B.S. in Math required" and all you have is CS degree that you know is almost equivalent to Math degree.

    • From my own experience I would say that having a certain degree just gets you in the door, but what's considered after that is the skill level and your ability to learn new things.

      i agree with you in part, but remember - getting in the door, especially today and perhaps for the next few years, is the hardest part. besides, this person isn't asking "should i start a whole new degree?" -- they're 3 classes away from a second major. sure, getting the second major might not make you a better ______, but slacking off and taking "gym 101" instead isn't going to either, and you don't have that sexy extra line on your resume.

  • Anonymous Student,

    Instead of taking a second degree in a direction that is very similar, why not go for something complementary ?

    A degree in economics or, god forbid, law will help your career way better both in short and long term.
  • my opinion (Score:2, Insightful)

    as someone who's working full-time and going to school part-time on getting his first degree, i would say you should make the most of school while you're there. from your intro it seems as though you're interested in both CS and math... if it's only a "little" more work to get the second major, i can't see how that can hurt you. if you need to take 9 classes per year and you only need 5 to complete 2 degrees, that still leaves you 4 classes to waste however you like.

    down the road you may decide you'd rather teach math or take on a job heavily involved in math... if you get your degree now it will open up that opportunity right away (going back to school is a pain in the ass). and, as someone who's seen alot of people interviewed (we work in a small office, interviews are done in the open), i can tell you that a double-major can only add to your appeal to prospective employers. good luck with whatever you decide to do.

  • Heck, if you're only 3 classes away from a second degree, go for it. It's well worth your time.

    Think of it this way, you're 95% on the way to your second degree... why stop now?

    You can always work in your college town and go to school part time to finish up those 3 classes.
  • scare your friends and neighbors with your 1337 (1pher skeelz. Better yet, when you're finished get your Masters Degree in Math and really scare the hell out of them -- that's what I'm doing.
  • by drDugan ( 219551 ) on Thursday September 12, 2002 @02:36PM (#4246293) Homepage
    ... is almost nil

    I majored in Physics and Chemistry, worked for a while, did a PhD in Bioinformatics, and now am working in business development in drug discovery/development.

    How much did the 2nd major in chem help me? not much.

    Just live your life.

  • Second major (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lando ( 9348 ) <lando2+slash&gmail,com> on Thursday September 12, 2002 @02:49PM (#4246388) Homepage Journal
    When considering whether to hire you or not, many places won't be able to evaluate your skills... Instead they will rely on your resume. Having a double major is not the "norm" and will definately be an added plus to your resume.

    In my opinion it will definately be worth it... If I had the choice between two people of the same skillset, but one had a second major I would consider that one more of a "go-getter" and all things being equal would hire him/her.
    • I reached the point where I needed two more classes to finish my 2nd major (psychology in my case), and it was definitely worthwhile when applying to graduate schools and, later, when interviewing for my first job.

      Did grad schools or employers care what my 2nd major was? Most of them did not. But having finished two majors (while working part-time in my case) was one way I "stood out".

      Later, when I went to college campuses interviewing CS/CE majors for my first employer, an additional major (especially in math) was always a big plus.

    • If I had the choice between two people of the same skillset, but one had a second major I would consider that one more of a "go-getter" and all things being equal would hire him/her.

      Um, are you hiring? I not only did a second major, but a second degree. I just graduated in June with a BSCS and a BSMath. At the moment, it hasn't helped me much. I added the BSMath to stand out from the million other BSCS's, but from talking to recruiters at job fairs I'm not sure if it was worth it career-wise. Most said that it would only matter if the position was related to Math. On the other hand, I've heard that if you have a second degree in a field related to the one you're working in, you may earn a higher salary. So, your mileage may vary.

      Now, as far as recruiters go, I have a small rant. I spoke to a recruiter on the phone a couple weeks ago and they asked me if I specialized in anything in college. I said I took several courses in AI, compilers, and applied Math. I also mentioned my senior project where I worked in a group on a statistical analysis application with a national research lab. The reply was, "Well, I was thinking more along the lines of C++. Did you specialize in that?" I nearly wanted to throw the phone out the window. It's obvious that industry is more interested in one trick ponies than people who can wrap their minds around anything and get the job done.
      • Um, are you hiring? I not only did a second major, but a second degree. I just graduated in June with a BSCS and a BSMath.

        Would that I was hiring... Sigh...

        Last couple of years has been hard for me personally, have fallen from 17 employees two years ago to just myself at the moment..

        I definately understand your problems, I'm more of a CS major myself plan on going back to college in 4 years to work on my PHD in EE, but knowing over 50 programming languages I am always amazed at the number of people that were highered based on their resume' rather than their actual knowledge...

        The one bit of advice I can offer though, set your sites a little higher... Don't go for the "normal" job.

        Case in point... For several years I had tried to get a decent job roughly 30-40K a year with no success. Finally I gave up and applied for what I thought was a menial job at AT&T. AT&T had run an incorrect add for tape mounting staff from which they had a couple of dozen applicants... The real ad, ie a systems adminstration position, one of the top positions 70-80K a year was the real job.

        I felt it was kinda funny that to be a tape mounter I needed to take the UNIX test... lol, especially since I hadn't worked in UNIX for about 10 years (Was doing spot jobs as Microsoft Access Developer)

        Imagine my supprise when I found out what the actual job was and was offered the position. Going from paying myself 7k a year to over 70K a year was quite nice...

        Later when hunt for another job, I did the same thing, looked for jobs in the 110K - 140K position and had 3 job offers in a month.

        The point, although I may ramble a bit, is that going after the jobs that are about twice your current expectation. These jobs tend to look at a person on a more personal level, the managers tend to have more of a clue, etc etc etc.

        It's counter intuitive, the higher you set your requested income the more they want you...

        Truth is that most people are "normal" and normal people are expected to step through hoops and make more income slowly each year by getting raises. If you want to really get ahead it's better to step outside of that role so that you aren't dealing with the "normal" folks.

        Good luck
  • by Anonymous Coward

    "I only need two more CS classes to finnish a BS."

    ENGLISH 101. ENROLL.

    • 1) I didnt know Jesus could tap dance, I'd imagine it would be difficult in those sandals.

      2) Although you were being a sarcastic prick, you are quite correct. ALL COMPUTER SCIENCE MAJORS SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO TAKE AT LEAST ONE COURSE IN ENGLISH COMPOSITION. The quality of written work I see from my peers is quite frankly disgusting.

      • MIT actually does that.
        Once admitted you're required to take a writing test that is waived only if you got 5 in ap english. If you don't pass this test you need to take a course in english composition. You're also required to take humanities subjects throughout your studies and two out of these eight required courses have to be communication intensive(verbal/writing).
  • If it isn't truly extra effort (i.e., you'd have been taking 3 classes anyways), definitely go for it. Despite what some may say, there will be jobs that will be impressed by a double-major. Even if you're applying for a stock CS job, that extra major can, in the first 5 years or so of your career, mark a difference between you and the other interviewees. CS jobs aren't as easy to come by as they were 2 years ago, so the edge will really help.
  • ...for your resume: Human Resources dorks. They look at two degrees and say, "Wow, that's more than one so he must be really smart" Always remember that you ususally need to get past HR before you get to the folks with a clue...

    It worked for me anyway :)

    Jeff

  • by madstork2000 ( 143169 ) on Thursday September 12, 2002 @03:02PM (#4246505) Homepage
    If you plan to find a job in a large company, and remain mostly anonymous, your "stats" are more important, because your work will be viewed and used by many people you may never come into personal contact with. They will see your bio on the company intranet, and get an email from you (cc'd to about a hundred other managers and co-workers). Once you have been there long enough you'll be able to have a reputation that stands on its own, but until then your credentials will help your co-workers evaluate you and "judge" you.

    Now on the other hand if you are the more adventuresome type, and are looking for a challenge more than a paycheck, and find a great job at a small company, a second major will be much less worth while. As the people will know you for who you are and what you can do.

    I have personally worked at large and small companies, and now run my own. I think you're better off deciding what type of company and what type of job, when making decisions.

    The number one bit of advise is enjoy your time in school. College represents the most freedom you'll ever have, most just don't see the forest through the trees (I know I didn't.)

    MS2k
  • I am a senior in college ... Do employers or grad schools care about that stuff?

    First of all, if you're already a senior then grad schools aren't going to care all that much about what you do in your final year unless you really screw up. That, of course, is assuming you're planning on grad school right after undergrad. Even so, I'm guessing that most employers and grad schools care more about your GPA than whether you have a double major. Both employment and grad school will want you to specialize so impressing them with how broad your education is probably won't work. Just my opinion.

    or should I just take fun random stuff in my last year as an undergrad?

    I would really encourage you to take this as your last opportunity to learn something besides CS or Math. College is a great opportunity to expand one's horizons. Unfortunately, most students don't realize that until after they have graduated. Have you ever wondered what philosophy was all about? Psychology? Anthropology? This is your last chance to find out.

    Bottom line is that if you're a senior then you've pretty much established what grad schools and employers are going to think about you. If you've done good work and have a good GPA, then enjoy this last chance at college life. If you've goofed around and your GPA sucks, you've already screwed yourself. Forget trying to impress people with a last-ditch effort.

    GMD

    • An employer isn't going to look at GPA unless you're fresh from school. A double major is something that will always be noticable on a resume though.

      You're right though about differing your majors more. Many will see CS & Math and think "yay, another social misfit" For leadership positions having one soft subject and one hard subject shows someone who can view problems from multiple perspectives, and leads the reviewer to assume you'll be able to deal with a variety of people and ideas. Having CS and math will make you look like a better nerd instead of making you look competent in other business areas.

      And if you honestly see univerisity as a vital place of learning, you should learn to read books or even the web.
    • No one says that once you graduate, you aren't allowed to take any more classes. Many people continue to take classes after they get their degree.

      This guy doesn't want to start over - he's nearly finished with his school. I'd say finish up as soon as possible, go ahead and get both, then keep taking classes afterward. Sure, maybe not full time, but why stop taking classes? Especially ones that are "just for fun"?
    • Both employment and grad school will want you to specialize so impressing them with how broad your education is probably won't work.

      Two points:

      • Some organizations are looking for breadth. Not the organizations who are looking for drones who code C all day, but organizations that are looking for truly talented leaders.
      • CS and Math isn't a lot breadth :-). CS and Eastern European history is, CS and African Lit is, CS and Civil Engineering is!
  • by kevin lyda ( 4803 ) on Thursday September 12, 2002 @03:03PM (#4246515) Homepage
    can you find three math classes that would interest you? for instance i really wish i'd been able to take a math class that would cover the fundamental mathematics behind modern cryptography. or one on topology would have been interesting.

    yes the degree is important, but perhaps even more important is the classes you take. i've always been impressed when interviewing people who can describe a few of their classes and what they got from them.

    i've found that graduates that complain a college degree is just a piece of paper were only there to get a piece of paper...
  • Did it. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Urox ( 603916 ) <{luthien3} {at} {juno.com}> on Thursday September 12, 2002 @03:06PM (#4246535) Journal
    My first BS, however, was Chemistry and the second Math.

    * Do it if it takes you a year or less. 2 degrees in 5 years looks more impressive than 1 degree in 4.
    * Do it if it raises your gpa. GPA is not everything, but it is definitely BIG. More so when it stands out (either too low or very high).
    * Do it because it's easier to stay as a 6th year senior in college than trying to get back in for a second degree. You will have a harder and longer time getting a second degree once you have been shoved out the door with your first. However, you can always have a Post-Bacc gpa which often counts higher than your undergrad.
    * Do it if you enjoy that subject. You should take what you enjoy in college, not what you have to.
    * Do it for the diversity on your application. On this, however, most companies are stupid in that they overlook math majors in favor of the generic CS but I'm employed (currently) so it isn't all bad.
    • Do it if it raises your gpa. GPA is not everything, but it is definitely BIG.

      Only if you're applying to grad school, and even then it's far less important than any research you've done.

      In some fields, when you're job hunting straight out of college employers might ask your GPA. But especially if you're looking for a programing job, it'll be far more important to show your skills and prior work/research (math _skills_ will count big) than to list your GPA. That fun open-source project you wrote counts for more than an extra .5 on the GPA.

      I've never even been asked for my GPA when job hunting, in fact I finished at CMU in 97 and can't remember what it was (in contrast to the high school GPA and SATs which are burned into my brain as a result of the college application process).

      Get the 2nd major if you want to take the classes, but if you have another field of interest go for it--you'll be learning in-field skills for the rest of your career, you won't often have such easy access to that art history or theoretical physics class. A math degree, like a 4.0, might help you get the first job but a photography class will give you a skill you'll use off and on for the rest of your life (and it might me _more_ valuable than that math degree depending on the employer and the job--it's amazing how often something seemingly worthless coincides with really cool job).

      Sumner
  • I was in the exact same situation two years ago. I bailed out of the math degree though eventually. I only needed three classes, and I could have finished that year that I wanted too.

    So my advice is to go and get it if it's not too much of a bother. Otherwise, don't because it's not a really big deal. Computer Scientists are known to have decent math skills... at least calculus, linear algebra, and some probability. Maybe not the wacky stuff like modular forms and meta-math.

    One thing it might buy you is leverage for getting into graduate schools. I hear it's getting more and more competetive these days; schools are getting a lot of applications perhaps because of economic factors.

    If I had the chance to go back, I would've gotten a second degree. But not math, rather biology, since that's what I've really taken an interest in. Oh well,

    Andy
  • whaaat??? (Score:2, Funny)

    by delorean ( 245987 )
    I've heard of Second Lieutenants... but Second Majors?
    Additionally, I've heard of Major Octaves, Major Domos, Major General, and even a General Protection Fault (nepotism for he is related to the Colonel, I think)
    Oh well, learn something gnu every day, I always say.
  • Taking the classes to get the degree in math will not cost you a whole lot, and will only work to your benifit. Even if your future employer has no need for a math degree, they should be impressed by the fact that you did extra work in college to get one.

    Ideally the second major would be in a different field than the first to show your varied abilities, but any second major will show your added initiative.

    Graduating from college I was one class away from a second degree. I was going to get a B.A. in Math, and only needed a seminar for a B.S. in Psychology. However, the seminar was only offerred in the fall, and I wanted to graduate that spring (I could not take the seminar the fall prior because or pre-reqs).

    In the end, I am glad that I left early. The extra half a year of a salaried position more than made up for it.

    Now that I am looking for a new job, however, I see the benifit that the second degree would have on my resume.

    For you, since it will not require stayign around another semester, I would highly suggest getting the second major.
  • As one of the people who does hiring for a small firm, we look for well-roundedness in all employees. Someone who has been exposed to, say, history courses, music appreciation courses, or even--gasp-- sports management or courses of that ilk-- in addition to whatever their main concentration is-- denote a well-rounded person who will be able to write, speak, interact, show up on time, and in general act more like a well-rounded human being than most.

    Of course, this is mostly perception, but it's perception via your resume and interview that will get you hired. We look at hundreds of similar candidates for every position, and anyone who can both demonstrate excellence in their profession/main field, and the well-roundedness that is a good indicator of creativity, are immediately at the top of the stack.

    As long as you're not sacrificing any crucial courses to get this extra breadth of knowledge, by all means go for it. And drink lots of beer. You'll be a senior.

  • I did exactly that: I was two courses away from a dual major (adding Math to a CS degree like you), so I took the courses. I have never regretted it but I sincerely doubt that it was of financial benefit. No employer or client has said that it affected their decision to hire me or pay me more. The benefit is intangible. I feel better about my math skills, and I got to stay in college for an extra beer... umm... year.
  • My advice is to take some humanities courses to learn better how to communicate with your fellow human beings.

    I think if you asked a lot of employers they'd tell you that a big problem is having to hire technically proficient staff that do not have the ability to write a sensible paragraph.

    If you can write as well in English as you can program the latest Design Pattern, then you will go much further in your career.

  • This is a no brainer: get the second degree!! Grad schools are looking at grades, GRE, and something that will set you apart from the legions of other applicants...a second degree shows you are dedicated and have worked hard (grad schools like this!!). It shows the same thing to employers: most employers don't need to be sold on people who have math degrees. What is the harm of hurting yourself for one semester? This chance won't come back...you have an incredible opportunity...don't waste it!!! You'd be a fool not to get it!
  • [zen-mode] The value of a second major, depends on what you value. [/zen-mode]

    Seriously, if you like math, get your math degree. Don't do it because you'll make X amount of more money.

    If you like something, then you'll be good at it. If you're good at it, then you'll make money.

    And if you want to go to grad school, can you handle working on math stuff for another 2-4 years...and enjoy it? It's your life.

    • Agree. I'm doing math as a 2nd major not so much because it will make me look that much better, but because I would like to learn the subject matter.

      Oh, BTW, I hear that sometimes you actually need to learn some advanced math stuff in grad school anyways, so you're probably kinda getting ahead of the curve.
  • As a faculty member at a university, I advise undergraduates (and graduate students, too). There are three different answers, depending on you.
    1. Interest level: Do you like math? How much more (or less) would you enjoy taking fun electives? This is usually your last chance to take advantage of your college experience, so pay careful attention to what you might be missing. I opted for a film making class (we used Super 8!), an advanced seminar on arcane programming, and an ancient history course rather than accumulate another major and I'm still glad I did. I enjoyed all three.
    2. Career plans: In the absence of other factors, a double-major is better than a single major as long as your GPA doesn't suffer. Unfortunately, many people look only at GPA, not at what you learned. If taking those math classes might bring your GPA down, don't do it at this stage. It will look like you are slacking off, which is bad for business and academia. If it won't affect your GPA, then do it: it will look better in many business situations.
    3. Grad School: Double major doesn't add anything to most admissions committees. They'll see all your math courses anyway.
  • I did exactly what you are contemplating. Instead of 2 minors (who cares what you minored in?) I picked up a Math Major to go along with my CS Degree ... The Math degree has done more for me. CS Degrees are a dime a dozen, but the double with Math is not as common. Not to mention the additional skills I picked up in the process have been useful. Besides, there are plenty of clueless persons with CS degrees out there (I know quite a few), but I think that there is an 'aura' about a Math degree ... non-techies probably never took a *real* CS course, but they undoubtedly remember how painful their Math classes were (some people pull their hair out in Algebra ;), and have a little respect for someone who managed a degree in it ...

    just my $.02
  • I have both math and physics BS degrees (actual separate degrees and diplomas, with separate winter and spring graduations), and did most of my graduate work in CS.

    The bottom line is that the guy who actually interviews you will know that's not much difference between somebody who squeaked through a degree program with the absolute minimum number of courses, and one who fell one class short.

    But the HR department, which increasingly sees itself as a roadblock to all but the most qualified candidates, doesn't have that nuanced grasp. You're either an MSIE, or you're not. Never mind how much experience you really have, or if it's just a paper cert. You're either an Oracle cert'd DBA or you're not.

    If you're applying for a job that involves heavy math - or your prospective boss just understands that people with extensive math, science or engineering tend to be much better programmers than "pure CS" types - that second degree will be a certification that may be the difference between getting an interview, or never hearing back from the company.

    That said, I wouldn't invest more than a single semester in a second degree, and in retrospect I feel that you're better off if your second major is well apart from your first (I was a double major because they kept changing the course catalog and I often found myself closer to finishing one degree than the other). But if you're wrapping things up now and only need a 3 classes (out of 9?) to get the degree, go for it.

  • by splattertrousers ( 35245 ) on Thursday September 12, 2002 @04:25PM (#4247077) Homepage
    I am a senior in college, majoring in computer science. I only need two more CS classes to finnish a BS. [...] So Here is the question to people out in the real world: Is it worth it to get a second degree?

    Definitely go for it. I'd recommend an English degree.

  • by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Thursday September 12, 2002 @04:42PM (#4247160) Homepage Journal
    FYI - Father is a VP of Human Resources, so I asked him.

    A second degree is worth it if the career you are persuing requires heavy mathematics.
    Reason? Pro side is obvious. A BS in math proves you have the math ability necessary for a job that requires heavy math usage.
    Disadvantage? With extra degrees comes with extra expectation of a higher salary. This is why its a dumb idea to go straight to a grad degree right away. If I a BS in CS goes for the same job as a MS in CS (the job isn't complex programming, just run-of-the-mill programming), the BS is gonna get the job, cause he can do the same job as the MS, but you can pay him less. (sidenote - usually if your job requires a MS or PhD, they'll pay for you to do it. Its easier to go to school when you don't have to worry about paying off that loan!)

    So, if you are going into graphic engine programming, or a company that makes CAD/other engineering tools, then the math major is a huge plus.

    I have a minor in math, and, honestly, it never gave me any noticable edge.

    Now, my side of the equation is that programming and math go hand-in-hand. You're much more likely to get the 'advantage' of the extra knowledge than the 'disadvantage' of a higher expected pay, so go for it!
  • I have two bachelors degrees in Physics and in Aerospace Engineering. Employers only saw the one degree that they wanted and ignored the other. I have gained lots of valuable insights from taking classes in both majors, but I would have gained that from a minor in Physics as well.

    If you want the 2nd degree, go for it... but it probably won't help much in getting a job. One degree is enough to get you through the door... after that degrees are just like merit badges.
  • Well, sometimes, when you've dropped a particularly sloppy deuce, you need more than one sheet to clean up.

    - A.P.
  • That's exactly the degree combo I have and I strongly reccomend going ahead and getting the second major. Do it's worth it.
  • I have ended up doing "scientific" software sorts of jobs for the last ten years (as opposed to doing business applications or web stuff) and in those positions we have always been concerned about the mathematical proficiency of applicants, and have NOT found that a C.S. degree by itself guarantees the ability to handle even simple calculus, linear algebra, or numerical analysis. Many schools seem to be cranking out graduates who are destined for no math more complex than computing a payroll. Having the math major on your resume would probably get you past the first sifting of resumes for positions and into an interview, at least at the places I have worked. If you are interested in jobs where your math skills are needed, the credential could well be an asset to you and worth the small amount of trouble you describe it requiring.
  • by RhetoricalQuestion ( 213393 ) on Thursday September 12, 2002 @05:16PM (#4247336) Homepage

    I have a double major in CS and English Writing. I've found this to be a huge advantage because my writing degree is proof of strong written communication skills. Plus, the fact that it's an unusual combination helps me stand out a little. When I decided to switch from CS-type work into a more business-oriented role, it showed both my ability to learn technical and non-technical subjects.

    My (uninformed) opinion is that CS and Math will probably only give you an edge if you take a CS job that requires heavy mathematical skills.

    However, if you enjoy your math courses and you want the extra degree, I don't see how it could hurt you. I could have just taken an English minor and saved myself a lot of stress, but I like having earned the extra degree.

    • Similarly, I doubled in mathematical sciences (compsci) and English, and they complement each other wonderfully. There is something beautifully tragic about someone who understands the value of concise, well-documented code, and on the flip side, someone who brings a "scientific" approach to coherent expression.

      It never hurts to take that extra semester/quarter or two (or three, or four...), so do it while you can.
  • One person at the company that hired me out of college shrugged, "Computer Science IS Math." I agreed. There is more to CS than what you typically learn in Math curricula, but if you believe that at a basic level, CS is Math, it says something favorable about your problem solving skills and your ability to think abstractly.

    I'm not sure if anyone was impressed with my double at the company that hired me. However, I think a double gives the impression you're willing to do more than the bare minimum.

    I sometimes point out that I doubled so I guess I think it was significant.

  • Figure out really what your goal is. Pursuit of money, or pursuit of happiness? If you really want to make money, then just become an MBA. If you want to pursue something fun, then go for that and worry about the money later.
  • I would say that the extra degree is worth it, especially if you decide to go onto graduate school in the future.

    More importantly, the extra math credential is a great signal to others as to your qualifications in the subject. If you ever need a position that requires math credentials, that degree is many of orders of magnitude more important than just bullshitting about how many math courses you took.

    I see the allure of taking it easy before you graduate, but I would recommend that you buckle down and get the extra qualifications and then maybe take off a little time after you graduate.

    Generally, academic credentials are overrated, but for the minimum amount of extra work that you need for this one, I would go for it. The extra price you pay now, in terms of time and effort, may really pay off in the future.

    Remember, employers generally don't look at your grades, so you don't need to excel in those final courses.

    Just think of the extra hoops you'll need to jump through if you ever decide you want that math degree later on. Get it now and never worry about it again.

    Also, having a CS and Math degree shows that you are more than just a code monkey. It shows that you can think abstractly on subjects and have an intellectual grounding in the fundamentals of computing, as well as a practical ability.

    And once you graduate, go on a summer-long bender.

    And for goodness' sake, don't ask for important advice from complete strangers online : )
  • I graduated in May with majors in CIS and Finance (not the same as your situation, but close enough). All of my internship/job experience has been writing software for use in financial applications. I'm sure the second major helped me get the jobs, because they figured that I knew something about the field. I think you'd find the same with your math degree - don't forget the software is written with an application in mind, and the more you know about that application, the better.
  • I'm looking at 4 more semesters to finish my CIS degree. It looks like I may be able to get an ECON major also, but it will take me one extra semester, depending on course availablility. But I also have the option of graduating in 2 semesters with a general (vs. honours) degree. I have a fairly secure job, with a big co., when I graduate, so the economy is not too big an issue.

    My biggest question is whether or not it is worth hanging around for the honours. Most of what I hear is "You just need a degree", but I don't know. At this point it is twice as long to get the honours. If I do hang in for that, I'd definitely go for the 2nd major - really think it would be worthwhile.

    As for the original poster's case - no doubt about it, if it's not going to cost you extra time, it's worth the extra effort.
  • I was in exactly your position. I thought that having Math listed as a Major on my record would be well worl it. Well it wasn't.

    I wish I'd spent the time to take some of the other classes I was interested in. In the end what mattered were my math skills, not if math was listed on my transcript as a major or not. A couple classes in undergrad won't make much difference to your math skills anyway.

    Once you have some experience, you'll be able to teach yourself any math you need from text books and papers/journals. Typically you'll forget much of what you learnt in undergrad, but become more expert in the areas you use. When you find that you need to brush up on stuff you've done in undergrad but forgotten - relearning the second time will be much easier.

    So my advice is, unless you want to primarily be a mathematician, drop a couple classes and broaden your education instead.

    Have fun.

  • This'll probably burn my karma to a crisp (this is my first post), but here goes...

    Assuming the final three math courses you're going to take will be hardcore, upper-level, and full of work, I don't think it would be worth it. There's much more to college than taking shitloads of classes and getting degrees. Go out. Party. Get laid (although majoring in CS and/or Math probably won't help your odds).

    Why drown yourself with extra work in your final year, the year in which you should feel most comfortable at school? Especially for an extra major that is extremely similar to the one you're already going to get. I guess the ONLY reasons to do it would be if:

    1) You know for a fact that your GPA will improve by taking these courses. Employers look very closely at GPA when they consider hiring recent grads. I bet that an employer would more likely hire a CS major with a 3.7 over a CS/Math major with a 3.0.

    2) If getting another major is really worth more to you than having fun with friends, many of whom you won't see again after this year, then by all means, get that extra major.

    Of course, what it really comes down to is that you should do whatever floats your boat. Doing extra work in math (or any subject, for that matter) with such a small payoff doesn't float mine, but if you're into it, by all means, do it.
  • How can one possibly use courses as credit toward two degrees? Is is that different in the U.S. (compared to Canada)?

    When I received my B.Comp.Sc. (honours), if I wanted a math degree on top of it, I'd have to spend another three years at it, and it would have been difficult since many of the required math courses already counted toward my honours specialization (basically ALL four minors at the same time: math, biz, engr., and "pure"). Of course, the specialization should not be confused with graduating "with honours" (i.e. magna or summa cum laude) as that was ALREADY a requirement to get the defree conferred.

    In my case, I ended up continuing toward a M.Comp.Sc. graduate degree, and stopped short of the Ph.D. because then I'd be over-qualified for anything other than a teaching position (which I did not want).

    It's late, my spelling sukz, and I'm going home.

  • I think it's a mistake to worry TOO much about how your college education will look to employers and/or grad schools. Your education is for YOU. You are fortunate enough to have four years to spend in college--use them.

    You might as well study what's interesting to YOU, because at least you know (or will find out!) what's interesting to YOU. Whereas advice about what's interesting or valuable to others is about as reliable as stock market tips.

    People I know who have trained for specific occupations "because the nation needs" teachers or scientists or nurses or whatever have almost uniformly found that by the time they were finished there was a glut of teachers or scientists or nurses.

    I remember the darned premeds when I was a teaching assistant in zoology. They were so annoying--and they were ALL spending so much time and effort trying to game the system. Instead of simply taking the courses the med schools said they wanted, and using the rest of their time on subjects of interest to themselves, they were all big on taking courses that med schools supposedly "liked to see" without saying so. It was all BS. (Well, at any rate, it was not MD). Oh, and some informal checking later on with people I knew IN med school revealed that they HADN'T taken all these "like-to-see" courses.

    Life will focus you soon enough on some fairly narrow area of concentration. Take whatever time you've got to mess around in an unstructured way, while you've got it.

    Oh,yes, and this is also your chance to try out the campus radio station, or the drama club, or the outing club... these sorts of things are college opportunities that don't have any close equivalents in "the real world."

    Oh, and some restrained, moderate attention to bridge, billiards, sex, partying, and computer hacking can also be very worthwhile.
  • I would reccomend that you get the math degree also if you can do it without too much pain. It will give more work opportunities in the early to mid part of your 'work career'. I personally would be more likely to interview and hire a candidate that also had a math degree on top of the CS degree. And if you ever decide that you want to change tracks for wahtever reason you have other options available to you.
  • I think a second degree is somewhat beneficial for employability. It broadens your qualifications for the jobs you can be hired for. You never know when an opportunity might arise that you can take advantage of because you have the two degrees. I also think it helps you stand out from those who have "just" a CS degree. In the worst case, it can't hurt you. You can always omit one degree or the other from your resume and just leave the one that best suits the particular job you are applying for.

    That being said, it's important to assess where your interests lie. You called non-math classes "fun", and I inferred by that that you consider math classes to be not fun. If this is true, then I would say don't bother. If your heart isn't in math and you're not really interested in it, then you're not going to retain what you learned in those classes and they will just be a painful experience. Take some fun classes and enjoy your last year of college. If, however, math stimulates and inspires you, then by all means, go for that second degree. A few more semesters is a small price to pay for the opportunity to explore some new and interesting subjects.

    So to summarize, don't make your decision based on what an employer or grad school might think. Make it based on what you enjoy. You only live once.
  • I didn't get an minors or double majors in my undergrad, but I spent a few classes taking Robotics, Multimedia processing, Digital Music Processing, Virtual Reality....etc., and a had so much fun in those classes. I never regret.

    If I were back in college again, I would do the same thing. A double major or minor is just one line on your resume, and it'll just help you land your first job a tiny bit easier. After you got your first job, all it counts is your experience and your personality/character.
  • I looked at my transcript at registration for spring quarter and found I needed 8 credits to graduate, I had all my CS courses, and I need 8 math credits for a math minor. It seemed like a no brainer so I registered for those two classes. (The next day I added my credits corretly and discovered that I could graduate then, but I decided to take the minor anyway as it would still take most of a quarter for graduation paperwork to go through I may as well take classes).

    I don't regret taking those two classes. They were fun in the way only math classes can be. As my dad remarked after graduation, the announce announced very few minors and double majors that night.

    As for usefullness? I'm not sure. I've applied for a few jobs that list math skills, but I've not even gotten in the door. If nothing else though, I figgure it gives me a fall back, but I'm not sure where to.

    Can you get a minor instead of a major? (I was missing some classes for a major that I did not want to take) It might mean less classes. I would not recomend that you postpone graduation, but if you have some room in the schedual why not. Don't forget that there are other classes. I considered taking some bible history classes instead, perhaps you have similear interests you would be better off going for.

    Remember you can go back to school after you are done with the CS degree, and often your boss will pick up continuing education classes. This is one good reason not to get the major. Warning though, some companies insist continuing education relate to your job (which a math degree may or may not count for), so if you have someone in mind find out now.

  • I did a double major (history + Spanish = Hispanic Studies), and am very glad I did. Not only was I genuinely interested in the two subjects, but I found that anything you can do to distinguish your résumé from the thousands of others out there is a Good Thing. (I used to have a line at the very end listing my favorite Conan O'Brien skits, and know for a fact that got me at least one interview that led to job offers.) And if it only means three more classes for another degree, why not?

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