When to Buy Technology Goods? 283
inblosam asks: "I am about to make 'the switch', but the thought came to me that there may be a strategic time of year to purchase technology goods. Of course once you buy something it is nearly outdated already, but there must be some marketing cycle for lowering prices and releasing new toys. Anyone seen any patterns that may help? I do have one hypothesis: Companies push their products that have been on the market for 10-11 months during the holiday season (December), then afterwards drop the prices some and bump up the product with a new feature or size, etc. I believe this was the case for the iPod ($500 down to $300 ?), and even the Handspring Visor Edge was $300 when I bought it (November?) and then $169 three months later."
3 months after you buy it... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:3 months after you buy it... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:3 months after you buy it... (Score:2)
Re:3 months after you buy it... (Score:2)
When your computer becomes and "experience", you've become a consumer and your input is NO LONGER VALID sorry. I am glad you enjoy your hardware but leave off the experinece and emotional crap and give us facts....
Re:3 months after you buy it... (Score:2)
The whole thing is going to be auctioned on eBay soon, having been obsoleted by MP3s and CD-R. I'll probably be lucky to get $100 for it.
~Philly
18 month product cycle (Score:4, Informative)
Gee, did I get a first post?
Wait until after Christmas (Score:3, Insightful)
Go to Mac fan sites and find out when all the Mac shows are (obviously that's when the new stuff comes out).
Sometimes new stuff comes out before Christmas for the first reason I listed. Photokina (the big camera show) starts next week I think. The new models announced will probably arrive on store shelves at the end of October (can't wait for a Canon G3
Re:Wait until after Christmas -- Fake Sales (Score:2, Interesting)
Much to my surprise, the price on the item I purchased had been raised 10% for the sale and conveniently enough my coupon was for 10%. Nice trick. I felt like an idiot for waiting in line to get my non-existant cash back.
And yes, shortly after Christmas the price dropped even lower than the price I paid to make room for the the new model which (I think) arrived in the spring.
Re:Wait until after Christmas -- Fake Sales (Score:2)
Of course, this assumes I'd be caught dead giving any money to Best Buy.
Re:Wait until after Christmas -- Fake Sales (Score:2)
Re:Wait until after Christmas -- Fake Sales (Score:2)
MacWorld (Score:5, Informative)
Re:MacWorld (Score:5, Interesting)
- The Apple Expo in Paris was held this week, but there was really nothing new there (in the past, Apple had used it as a supplemental stage to introduce new hardware in the fall between MacWorld NY and MacWorld SF -- and MacWorld Tokyo in the spring).
- This summer's MacWorld NY introduced... what? Jaguar? Nope, it wasn't even ready until a month later, we knew it was coming before MacWorld began.
- This last spring's MacWorld Tokyo gave us... (drumroll, please) a different size Apple LCD monitor? Woo-hoo...
- When did Apple intro the all-dual-processor tower lineup? In between New York and Paris.
The updates come in between when Apple's ready to release them, which is really the way it should work.Maybe this is just the strategy for navigating the stormy economy and we'll see Apple re-adhere to the old schedule at some point. But for now, don't pin any bets on MacWorld... it's more for the third parties than Apple these days. The latest crop of TiBooks was also introduced between shows.
I know a lot of people are talking about the mythical G5 ("It's going to be released at MacWorld SF in January"), but it's the same speculation before every show year after year. Don't believe any of it unless you happen to know that Motorola has finally gotten its rear in gear.
Buy JUST BEFORE January MacWorld (Score:2)
Typically what Apple does is they will stop production of a model and let the retail channels empty out in the couple of weeks before a new hardware introduction. They don't want the overlap, though usually there are tower systems available for a while after the MacWorld introduction.
This coming MacWorld, however, I predict that there will be a run on G4 towers before the new models are introduced, because, for the people who aren't ready to switch to OS X, this is their last shot at buying a new G4 system. I predict that Apple is going to cut production beforehand, as usual, and the increased demand will dry up the channels rather quickly.
My advice is to either buy just before MacWorld, or call your MacWarehouse rep on a daily basis to guage their inventory and buy shortly after.
Re:Buy JUST BEFORE January MacWorld (Score:2)
Dont' be an early adopter (Score:4, Informative)
Early adopters get burned. Outside of the obviously faster chips, graphics cards, etc, which just goes with the territory of buying computers, with Apple you get the industrial design quirks that haven't been worked out properly.
In the original Titanium Powerbook the battery comes out if you twist the wrong way and the DVD drive can grind if the thing is at an angle at all.
If you are going to "switch," always take the second or third product revision from Apple. You end up better in the long run.
Re:Dont' be an early adopter (Score:2)
PS: you could have returned that powerbook to Apple for repairs if you wanted. I knew quite a few folk that got new drives (they we're actually giving folks a DVD/CDRW upgrade) and had batteries fixed.
my general rule is (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:my general rule is (Score:2)
Dude, you are so...
right!
Re:my general rule is (Score:2, Insightful)
This is even more true if you're paying mondo dollars for per-instance licenses on some compute heavy software.
For instance, here at work, our design team uses LSF to farm off simulation jobs to all our desktop machines. To get a certain throughput (so the engineers aren't idle), they need a certain number of licenses running all at once. Licenses for some of these packages go for something like $60,000/CPU. So, if you save even 20% on the compute time, you can cut your license costs dramatically and more than make back your investment on the hardware.
--JoeRe:my general rule is (Score:2, Interesting)
A Pentium/100 will be fine for that.
Our focus has been on good graphics cards and good monitors. Looking more for resolution than FPS.
That said, builds need to be done and engineers need to not wait. A 4Way "compile" server with very fast local disks serves MANY people.
In reality, development is usually for 4-5 platforms or more. So the Eng sits in front of a 21" screen running BSD or Linux with $VISUAL of choice. Another window is logged into the over priced 2 or 4 Way sun. He saves changes in emacs, hits the other window; catches the compiler crapping all over itself and goes back to emacs.
BACK ON TOPIC:
Laptops are, for the most part, faster than you will ever need them. Same for all but gaming machines for home. My Zaurus is faster than the Sparc 5 I have; faster than the older Mac.
So I buy on the cutting edge of 6-9 months ago.
Apple will screw you - they *won't* tell you that next week they're dumping that machine you just bought. It doesn't matter. It's just as good as when you bought it. I still have a working Powerbook 180 that gets used periodically. Fine client for the kitchen.
But that 2 CPU monster that's $2500 today, or that 17" G4 Laptop heatmonster for $3800 will cost half that in a year. And be no less useful.
In general, the best ugprade you can do it more RAM or faster disks. The CPU is spending a lot of time waiting for I/O anyhow. 2GHz just means more waits.
Buy the trailing edge and put the extra money into RAM, a good monitor and a comfy chair. You're l33t geek friends won't swoon, but really: They're poor and is it really important to impress those guys?
The obvious - linewidth. (Score:5, Informative)
A couple of months after a new linewidth becomes available, you get a few marginally higher-speed samples at a huge price.
Over the next six months, speed ramps up by a factor of 2 and prices drop on the older stuff. During this time any new chipsets introduced for the new hardware mature.
6 months after a linewidth switch, buy from the low end of the new speed grade range. You'll get a good price, and won't be obsolete for a year or more (as opposed to the usual 6 months).
There should be similar cycles for RAM (twice as fast, since they step lithography in cycles twice as fine), but in practice this isn't the case. Because margins are so thin, you get the occasional upset that drastically affects price (sometimes with help - the warehouse fire that quadrupled RAM prices a few years back only affected 3% of production capacity, according to rumour).
Processors are driven by linewidth, and motherboards are driven by processors, but most other things are market driven and so not as easy to predict. Other posters seem to have a better handle on this than I do
Re:The obvious - linewidth. (Score:2)
Re:The obvious - linewidth. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The obvious - linewidth. (Score:2)
For over a year and a half now however I have had as my games playing computer, a system that was low-end when I built it: Celery 1.2G.
True, I upgraded the hard drives on it, and the video card to a GF3 (non MX), but it still plays games fine...
It is true that I can't play games at the highest resolutions anymore, but the highest resolutions are more than I need- 1600x1200 to play Quake2 in ? Pffft.
I am glad that every time I upgraded in the past I kept the old machine and built a totally new one because now I have a whole network of machines to do different things on, (though of course they usually don't have sound because the soundblaster migrates to the new machine).
That's another weird thing: sound cards. I have had the same soundblaster live for years and not felt the need to upgrade, whereas with video cards the old one always got left in the old machine and I bought a new one for the new machine.
As for monitors I do fine thanks to kvm switches, running machines headless and one runs on the tv in the living room.
Since I am currently unemployed I am grateful for the fact that I don't have to upgrade hardware so often nowadays just to play the latest games.
It seems to be the same but more so for workstations: my main programming/web surfing machine is a dual-PIII 500 that was bargain price over 3 years' ago. (Though everyone at the time thought I was insane for sticking 512MB RAM in it).
graspee
My take on MBD/Processors (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The obvious - linewidth. (Score:3, Informative)
Linewidth is essentially that "0.13 micron" number and similar that semiconductor manufacturers quote when they're quoting the process node that their device is manufactured on. It's a size gauge used to advertise how advanced the process is. Smaller is better.
Semi mfgrs usually quote "L_effective", which is the "effective gate length of the smallest transistor". This is usually a bit smaller than "L_drawn" (the drawn gate length), and smaller than the line width. This page [geek.com] (down near the bottom) offers this blurb from a Motorola engineer:
--JoeAlways a problem.. (Score:4, Funny)
But he was full of crap. A good example was my PowerMac 8100/110. It $4500 (even at edu discount), it took 60 days to deliver the machine due to delays caused by some idiotic porny easter egg they found in the OS CDs and they had to master new CDs for ALL their stock. 2 weeks after delivery, they dropped the price $300. Mere weeks later, the machine was discontinued and replaced by far cheaper, faster models.
Another good example is my Powerbook G3/500, purchased 30 days before the G4/500 was released at the same price. But that one I don't regret, because I paid for the machine with the 30 days of work for one specific job.
So what you could do is just ask ME, and whenever I buy, that's the WRONG time to buy. FYI, I just bought a new dual-1Ghz machine.
Re:Always a problem.. (Score:5, Funny)
sh*t, so did I. I'm screwed.
Re:Always a problem.. (Score:2)
From what i've seen from my supplyer.. 3-4 months (Score:4, Insightful)
Never fails, pretty much every 3 months compaq replaces their desktop line, and 3-4 months their laptop line(presarios and evos alike I believe... I work with both). Stocking them gets to be a bitch in a small market like ours... we order frequent small orders so not to get stuck with old models. So, if we hit it wrong, we're without computers for a week, because the old stock runs out, but the new stuff's still backordered.
Never fails, EVERY back-to-school season we run waaay short, especially on laptops(so figure your cycle starting end of august).
Epson and HP's printers keep a little more lifespan, usually 4-6 months, whenever the decide we need more faux-resolution increase, or a new type of ink/cartridge.
Monitors... a year or better product cycle, at least for CRTs anyway... havent changed much beside the (case) color in a while either.
I usually buy RIGHT at the end of product life.. get nice and cheap then.. but i hate it because the next product I see a week later is always sooo much cooler
now (Score:4, Informative)
Getting at your more general question, the answer is also now. You're always guaranteed that if you wait it will be faster and cheaper. So what? Then you don't get the use of the machine until a long time from now.
Re:now (Score:2, Interesting)
So "now" isn't always the best time. If you can get by on the old system for six months while your current dream system takes an $1800 nosedive, it's up to the individual to decide whether or not the upgraded performance is worth the price premium.
My rule of thumb has always been, wait until you just can't bear the old computer any longer. Then buy whatever specs are exactly half that of the best system available. You can generally get a very usable system at a bargain price, and don't have to deal much with the weird, unproven tech. Sucks to have a 28.8 modem, though.
Re:now (Score:2)
Re:now (Score:2, Insightful)
Aren't "cheapest" and "fastest" conflicting criteria? The cheapest way is to use your current hardware and let it crank away; this has a marginal cost of zero. The fastest strategy probably involves waiting until you can afford to buy hardware that will solve the problem in a time that's on the same order of magnitude as the doubling time in Moore's law.
My rule of thumb has always been, wait until you just can't bear the old computer any longer.
This totally depends on what you want. You might find that a new machine with new software is slower -- that's often been my experience with desktop software. Personally, I downgraded recently from a fancy mac to a slower, less powerful $250 linux box, but I'm happier now than before, because I can run so much open-source software. If you're mainly interested in playing games, then what you're saying makes sense. But in general, it's a pernicious Microsoft myth that software rusts and needs to be replaced often. If you don't upgrade to the latest bloatware, you don't need faster hardware.
Buy when... (Score:5, Insightful)
Buy an electronics product when you need it, or when it would make a substantial improvement in your quality of life.
Yes, prices usually drop somewhat after the winter holidays, but prices on most of today's consumer electronics will continue to go lower and lower as eqipment bought a few months ago becomes obselete because of the latest "advance." The solution: wait until you need something and buy it then. If you become obsessed with getting the best price on something and timing the market, you'll either never buy or drive yourself crazy.
With Apple (Score:2)
The rebate was only good through something like August 20th. The reason for the rebate ( in my opinion ) was because the new G4s were brought out the day after the rebate ended.
So, I got the $400 discount but not the latest hardware ( the new G4s are all dual processors with DDR RAM instead of SDRAM ).
Discounts usually only come because the seller is trying to get rid of inventory to make room for something else.
WTF are you talking about? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:WTF are you talking about? (Score:5, Insightful)
1995: Pentium 120
1997: Pentium II 300
2000: Pentium III 733
I'm still throwing huge computing projects at this machine (complex maximum-likelihood statistical models with 100,000+ records), and nothing can choke up the combination of dual processors and plenty of RAM. This in spite of the fact that I had grave doubts about the Intel 840 platform and RDRAM given the public criticism at the time.
The bottom line: buy the best machine you can now, and you may be happy to keep it a very long time.
ROFL - Buying new system now - Palladium (Score:2)
I've been waiting for the NV30, but the time to buy a computer is when you need it. For the record, I'm getting a Shuttle SS51 [shuttleonline.com]. I've been impressed with the little boxes younger brother [shuttleonline.com] and have over about fifteen at work now. Disconnect drive cables, undo two thumbscrews, slide drive out. I wish there were an AMD nForce2-based version out right now. <wah>
Like the parent post says (most funny, deserves a mod up):
Any self-respecting geek knows full well that whatever tech product you end up buying, no matter how well researched, no matter how "latest and greatest," will be instantaneously transformed into the lamest piece of outdated old fashioned stone knife and bearskin technology that even your grandfather wouldn't be caught dead using -- the *moment* you pay for it.
SS51 has AGP Slot (Score:2)
Re:WTF are you talking about? (Score:2)
Along the same lines, the time to buy a new piece of equipment, is when it's price equals the worth of it's features used by you for the expected life of the product. It would be nice to have some map of hardware prices throughout the year with variations for product releases et all... but from a value standpoint, reduced prices on hardware will most often not coincide with upgrade time. If you upgrade before you really need to because it is cheap, then you aren't really saving money because you are not fully utilizing your previous purchase.
new product-old technology (Score:2, Insightful)
This is really somewhat understating the point. Several generations of product improvements are in the works typically before the latest gadget hits the market. This is reason for the pattern of precipitous prices drops a few months after a new toy is introduced (in addition to making money off of all the suckers that just have to have something as soon as it gets into the stores).
Buy what you want.... (Score:2)
A good example is the iOpener thing. Here was a full PC being sold for 99 bucks. You will never beat it....well, at least not for a while. Not saying it was a great deal, but the form factor is what really made the price and feature set work.
I bought a Toshiba e740 right when it first came out (like with in a day of release) and then like a month later, the e550g came out (no huge deal there...I still had wireless and it didn't) and then CompUSA ran a deal for a few weeks where you got a free WiFi card too (DOH!). Oh well. The e550g is wonderfully done and by far the best of the XScale PocketPC's. Even better then the 3900 iPaqs. They are WAAAY over priced by HP....no matter how good that screen looks....plus no integrated CF or PC Card slot kind of sucks cuz now your on the acessory train. Buy a sleeve, then crap to put in the sleeve, then another sleeve if what you want to work in it doesn't work in a cf sleeve (Toshiba 2 GB PC Card drives). Then a NexiCAM sleeve and then and then..... Since they have no integrated CF slot, they should REDUCE the price if you ask me. The screens Toshiba are using aren't that bad. I am still waiting for someone to bring out a HAST screen in brightness, but with it viewable in sunlight (Casio always had great screens). NO the 3900 series isn't as bright as a CASIO screen. Sorry for the rant, but Pocket devices are going to be the way alot of folks access the internet. Better hope for the best!
Anyway, if you can afford it, buy it. Don't wait for the price to come down...you'll be waiting forever and still get bit.
My rule of thumb... (Score:2)
Jack William Bell
End of Life (EOL) (Score:2, Informative)
Remember, Apple is massively paranoid about excess inventory since they were so imfamous for having it in the bad old pre-Steve days.
Of course, you would be even better advised to buy a used Mac at a site like smalldog, macresq (where I bought mine), PowerMax, or the Powerbook Zone. Keep in mind that the useful life of a well cared for Mac (5300s and such notwithstanding YMMV) is about ten years.
Buy a model about a year old, max out the RAM, get a copy of Virtual PC, and score some two-version-old legit copies of your apps on eBay or the used mac sites, and you'll be stylin' on far less cash then you'ld think.
Speaking as both a former IT director in publishing and somebody who has set up stacks of machines for starving artists, that's what I'ld recommend.
Of course you could always drop by the Computing links section of my site and get even more advice
Rustin
When a new version/generation is introduced (Score:2, Informative)
This is why I prefer to wait and buy older PC games and hardware (usually stuff that is a 1 generation behind the latest stuff). The added advantage of doing so is that the product tends to be more refined/less buggy.
With specific regards to Apple, right now is a good time to buy a system that DOES NOT have Jaguar on it. I recently picked up an iMac with OS X (for my wife) and, compaired with to the plain-jane iMac, we got it for $200 cheaper (Canadian $) plus ours came with a CD burner and an extra 128 MB or RAM.
Obviously, they were trying to get rid of their non-Jaguar inventory at my local BMac store. We also got a coupon so that we can buy Jaguar for $30 CND (it should arrive any day now).
A contrary opinion (Score:5, Interesting)
I've bought lots of Macs over the past 20 years, and since '95 or so I've seen a pattern develop. Here's my theory: buy the most expensive brand-new system you can afford at the instant you're ready to buy.
My first Mac laptop-- a PowerBook 160-- cost me $3,000, and I used it every day for five years. It was my primary-- only!-- machine until I bought my iMac. I regret that purchase, but only a little bit. Both of my iMacs were great, reliable little machines, and I never had a complaint about either of them, but I often wished I had bought machines with more oomph.
When the "speed holes" machines came out last month, I bought again. I found a friend who was willing to give me a few bucks for my iMac, and I plopped down $3,500 on a dual processor 1 GHz with a 17" studio display. It's fast, really fast, and it's got room to grow. I'll keep it for at least three years, I imagine.
But I know, and I accept, that Apple will release faster and better machines eight months or a year from now. It won't be too long before my top-o-the-line machine looks a little pale by comparison to the newest machines shipping. But that's not the point. The point is to get the very best system you can when you're ready to buy, and then be happy with it for as long as it takes to justify the purchase in your mind.
Re:A contrary opinion (Score:2)
The only problem with this being planned obsolescence for products - such as Microsoft no longer supporting Windows95 (or possibly Office97).
Personally, I side with you - the only upgrade I ever jumped on was WindowsXP for my Windows box. Otherwise, I generally run older hardware and software as it's more stable.
Re:A contrary opinion (Score:2)
I think you might have missed my point. I'm saying that a better idea is to blow a big wad on the latest, greatest thing and then use it for three, four, five years, or even longer. If you buy an older, less expensive system, you're just going to be hobbled by it sooner rather than later.
Re:A contrary opinion (Score:2)
Re:A contrary opinion (Score:3, Interesting)
If you want a good deal at a low price, get an EOL machine just before a major (more than a speed bump) change. If you want a good deal at a high price, get a mid-range model a month or two after the same major upgrade.
I was needing an upgrade really badly, and waited for the DDR because I wanted backside server bandwidth for leeching files around the house. Otherwise I would have waited another cycle to see if they would release G5 models. I'm suspecting that G5 would be a good reason why they wouldn't be able to boot MacOS 9.
I wanted one in my hands right away, since I had just gotten the money. If I had waited another month, I'd be getting the free inDesign offer, but I don't really care about that.
One thing to point out about Macs: unlike PCs, you can keep an old Mac running reasonably well for five or six years, if you choose the right model. My PowerTower Pro replaced a IIci, and they've both proven to be quite upgradeable. The only negative with my new speed holes Mac is that I'm stuck with the 166MHz FSB.
Re:A contrary opinion (Score:2)
Re:A contrary opinion (Score:2)
Computers aren't cars, is my point. When you buy a car, you might choose to buy the low-end model instead of the one with leather seats and heated windscreen and that little map thing that shows you which turn you missed, because you might be the sort of person who wouldn't miss those things. The car will last you just as long, and serve you just as well, with cloth seats instead of leather, so it doesn't really matter. Computers aren't like that. Buy the dual-processor model, even if you think the second CPU will sit idle most of the time. (With 10.2, it won't, by the way. I use both of my CPUs pretty hard, I've noticed.) Buy the bigger screen. Buy the Superdrive. Buy tons and tons of RAM. If you find yourself with an extra $100 in your pocket, order 256 MB of RAM. You'll use it.
Basically, figure out to the last buck how much money you can afford to blow, and then spend every bit of it. Then don't worry about buying a new computer for at least 3 years, and more likely 4 or 5.
Works for me.
Do what I did... (Score:2)
My strategy (Score:4, Informative)
Depends what you want with apple (Score:2)
PowerMac DUAL 867 just got released, I imagine in 6 months apple will have another unit out, but until then, the Dual 867 is VERY AWESOME
Notebook:
Well, if you need a notebook I have recently purchased an iBook which is a G3 700MHz, but ya' know what, it runs great for applications (photoshop, final cut pro, office X, etc..)
The Powerbooks are very expensive for just an 800MHz
In fact you could purchase an iBook for $1499 on an apple loan for $30 a month and have plenty of money to buy a Dual PowerMac 867MHz.
Re:Depends what you want with apple (Score:2)
Actually the current iBooks have a Radeon Mobility (not 7500) with 16 MB VRAM, which is decent for games, and also supports Quartz Extreme. I agree that right now the iBook is a better buy than the Powerbook, the PBs are supposedly going to be updated fairly soon. I also agree that right now the dual 867 is the best value available today. I just barely decided to not replace my G4/400 tower, waiting for the revision next year where hopefully Apple will dump Motorola and switch to a halfway competent processor vendor.
I've very sorry, inblosam (Score:5, Funny)
But, since you asked...
The entire technology industry monitors your activities. As soon as you purchase a product, we lower the price. Dramatically.
Again, I'm very sorry.
Re:I've very sorry, inblosam (Score:2)
I got quite a good laugh out of that. Thanks. (:
On buying into technology. (Score:2, Informative)
It helps to buy somethings over the summer when everyone's on vacation. Prices can be lower, the store more quiet and the sales people more relaxed and less stressed.
After working in a computer store... (Score:4, Interesting)
Last month.
No, I'm not being fecicious here, but I have seen, and experienced the best prices in July/August. Memory is cheap, and parts are cheap.
My guess is because people and companies just aren't buying much during the summer.
Whatever you do, avoid buying near Christmas. Even if you get a good deal, the extra strain on a dealer to work through Christmas will lower the quality of service, and possibly quality of parts you get.
facetious (Score:2)
Now that's a SlashDot-ism I've never seen before. Definately.
facetious [dictionary.com]
Do you check a dictionary [dictionary.com] when unsure? Why Not?
Since you brought "the switch" up... (Score:2)
Slightly off-topic, but since you are thinking of switching, I encourage you to read about my experience and why I eventually switched back. Hopefully you won't run into the same situations I found myself in.
Apple's price tiers (Score:2)
Nowadays, when Apple revs one of their lines (as they are scheduled to do with the Titanium Powerbook within the next 6 weeks), the prices are usually held constant, if not lowered a trifle. The price points of their good/better/best tiers for each product line usually hold steady irrespective of the 18 month product rev schedule.
Not to say that there aren't discounts. Apples second biggest change in operations (after consolidation of the product lines) has been to decrease their inventory dramatically, moving to a just-in-time production line. Even so, being left with excess outdated machines after a refresh, or running out of product in the weeks leading up to a refresh, is still Apple's biggest inefficiency.
To combat this, they'll apply special deals ($100 off for students until such-and-such a date, or get a bundled printer, etc.) to specific product lines as the changeover date approaches and they can better forecast the excess or dearth of inventory of the older machines.
A good 'tell' on a new lineup being introduced is a promotion targeted specifically to one product line. A while ago it was bundling deals specifically with iMacs. Right now it's discounts for students, specifically for G4 powerbooks.
The long and short of it is that, moreso than other tech companies or products, you don't pay as much of a premium for buying bleeding edge with Apple (consumer electronics or peripheral items, monitors and iPods, for example, notwithstanding).
Me, I'm going to get a new G4 Titanium the day they come out next month. I don't know whether they'll be including a Superdrive along with the speedbump (to either 933Mhz or 1Ghz), but either way, I'm confident a price hike won't be part of the announcement.
It depends (Score:4, Insightful)
Instead, when you 'should' buy a technology depends on the tradeoff between how badly you 'need' that technology and how badly you need to save money. For some people, waiting 1 week or even 1 day for the end of the next MacExpo might be too long to wait to buy the latest/greatest Mac.
Do you HAVE to have the fastest computer out there because you're doing rendering or financial modelling or something really CPU intensive ? If your time is worth enough $, then maybe the time to buy the latest/fastest/greatest AMD/Intel chip or whatever is now. If, on the other hand, you're a hobbyist, then maybe you can make do with a slower CPU or the penultimate video card instead of the ultimate until prices drop.
Consumption/Desire = Happiness (Score:2)
Re:It depends (Score:2)
I disagree with this argument. I heard the same thing 10 years ago from someone trying to dissuade me from buying a 486. "What do you need all that power for?"
Thanks to Mr. Moore, all computers, from the cheapy second hand one, to the fancy-dancy new $5000 jobbie, will be obsolete at some point. There are only two real considerations to buying new hardware. 1) How much money do you have to spend and 2) How long do you need to run the current crop of bloat^H^H^H^H^Hsoftware.
The newer machine you buy, the longer you can stave off obsolesence. Therefore, you should decide how much you want to spend, before you even start looking at machines, then buy the best one for that amount of money.
In the words of Weird Al: (Score:2)
My new computer's got the clocks / it rocks
but it was obsolete before I opened the box
That's my view on it.
Unless you need it to brag... (Score:2)
1) If you buy something 1 - 2 years old, it will depreciate slower.
2) Resale value should never be taken into account when buying computer equipment.
3) 1-2 year old equipment and it's associated drivers are less broken than cutting edge tech.
4) Only get power/stuff that you are going to use - it hurts very much to see unused stuff that you can't resell depreciate like computer equipment does.
Buy a computer like you would buy a car (Score:2, Funny)
You should purchase your computer like you would buy a car. They say that you should buy a car after it's been used for 2-4 years because that way the price has depreciated the most that it ever will.
Thus I'm currently surfing the web on a trusty 486. Can you believe that it only cost me a mere 25 cents!?!?! And this post has only taken me a mere half an hour to do. Now that's using your money wisely! ;-)
Thanksgiving sales (Score:2)
finding hot tech deals. Last year I got a 5400 RPM 60 gig
WD harddrive for $50.00 after rebates. Here
we are a year later and I still haven't been able to match that deal.
For keeping an eye on the day to day bargains,
try keeping an eye on:
http://forums.anandtech.com/categories.cfm?c
and
http://www.gotapex.com/deals.php
for good product reviews and comparison shopping, try:
Epinions [epinions.com]
and the old standby for price comparisons,
Pricewatch [pricewatch.com]
Typically, if you can beat the pricewatch price, it's a good deal, Like these in Tomorrow's Best Buy ad:
256 megs of 2100 DDR ValueRAM (by kingston) $40 after rebates.
48x12x48x Memorex burner $45 after rebates.
40x12x48x Digital Research burner $30 after rebates.
Mintek brand DVD/CD/MP3 player $56.92
Re:Thanksgiving sales (Score:2)
It is simple: Don't buy the latest & greatest (Score:2)
Think how much more performance/capacity the money you save is going to buy in 18 months.
MacSlash? (Score:2)
So many mac fans, I feel my pccentric slashdot has been slashdotted!
Anyway, to adress your question, Buy top of line when you're ready to pay. Break the time/money down into "time I would have waited vs money I paid per day" and see that for a buck or two a day, you really can have the top of line for a lot longer than if you would have waited.
- Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
Back to school (Score:2)
If these represent peak demand times, then you might expect to see higher prices. But I really have no idea if there's any validity whatever to my armchair economics.
Best Time (Score:2)
PC's are a little tougher because of their realtively short lifetime, but the rule there is to plot performance vs. price for the part you are looking at.When you do so it will immdiately be obvious that there is a 'knee' where the bang per buck drops off remarkably.
From a Distributor... (Score:2, Insightful)
It's actually the best time to purchase, better than post-Xmas.
The Option Of Buying Used (Score:2, Interesting)
A lot of used items, some of which can be as old as two years or as young as two months, can be found for extremely low prices either on the internet through auction sites/used retailers or better yet, through friends. I have been using used hardware for the better part of my computer career simply because, as a student with little or no income, I have not had the opportunity to buy the latest-and-greatest. I cannot say that everything I own is used, but nothing I own I bought when it just came out onto the market.
People I know are usually against the idea of buying outdated technology, but I look at it this way: If I cannot come up with a justifiable cause for buying the latest technology, why buy? Why not get something half as fast or one generation older for about half to less than half price? Here is an analogy: if you plan to buy a car to commute to work, would you buy a brand new car? Would you buy a BMW or a V8 Mustang? NO, you would probably buy a used economy-class vehicle, something like an older Toyota Corolla or a Honda Civic.
Again, if you plan to surf the web, listen to music, word process and do basic computer tasks you don't really need a dual gigahertz G4, you need an iMac. But if you plan to edit video, work with graphics, play games only then is getting a faster machine a reasonable decision.
Buying anything is a matter of buying what you need at the price you want to spend. Now buying what you want...that is a different story.
Before you switch to Mac, you should ask yourself: Do I really need a Mac? Or does my PC do everything that my future Mac can do plus more? *evil grin*
You Need Rumors Sites (Score:2)
get a pc.. (Score:2)
Plan on it taking a while and build it from parts.
Buy a case*, mobo+proc, ram*
(if your old stuff wont work)
Make sure you shop around some.. dont just pop in local computer shop and start buying..
Use your existing video card and harddrive and go to work for a couple more weeks.. watch the sales and the hot deals forums on anandtech and such..
Then spend another couple of weeks pay checks getting top of the line stuff at half retail value because you shopped around and got a deal.
When to buy from Apple (Score:2)
As for currently, I would not buy a TiBook or an iBook from Apple yet. They haven't had a serious update in nearly a year now, which means they're due for one soon. Powermacs and iMacs are the products to buy currently.
Buy when the extras are right (Score:2)
I've noticed recently, though, that it doesn't matter anymore what you have. Most people only do a limited amount of stuff. The computers that Apple is selling should be good for a long time to come. They'll be good forever for Word Processing and watching DVDs and listening to music - the things we do most. Up until now, that's been sort of touch and go with some machines, but we've hit a time where our machines can do almost everything we need, with no need of future upgrades except to satisfy our egos and materialist imprintings.
My Advice (Score:3, Insightful)
Check the product pricing curve. For example, look at CPU's. We all woo at the higher-ghz offerings from AMD and Intel. However, those CPUs tend to have the worst price/performance ration. For example (looking at http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.html?i=169 7&p=2), the Athlon XP 2200+ is $147. The XP 2100+ (only 66 mhz slower) is $117. The XP 2000+ (133 mhz slower then the 2200+) is only $92. Comparing the 2000+ (1.67Ghz) to the 2200+ (1.8Ghz), you are paying 60% more money for an 8% increase in speed. Wouldn't that extra $55 be a lot better if spent on memory or a faster HDD?
A lot of hardware tends to be priced this way. You pay a premium for 'cutting edge'. You are paying more to be the first guinea pig to test their product. In a working environment, do you really want to do this?
Speaking of which, know what you are buying. Don't buy junk, it will come back to bite you. Buy from quality manufacturers who have a history of supporting their products. For windows machines, go with companies that release stable drivers. Also, try to figure out where you need the speed. Do you need fast HDD access? Maybe a Gigabit network. Or is it raw computing power? Read the reviews of the hardware, and check usenet to see if anyone has had any problems.
In short, do your homework, buy quality, and avoid the high-priced bleeding edge hardware.
Just my $.02
Taste test. (Score:2)
Lemons (Score:2)
And granted, I am apple authorized, but as soon as I crack it open, it gives apple even more excuses on what could possibly be wrong. At least if I just build my PC, I can warrenty the individual parts manufacturer or easily find another source to buy from. Oh well.
How about ... Never? (Score:2)
The best time? In six months... (Score:2)
For the people who do rendering or video editing or some other activity that *always* need more power, figure out how much you're willing to spend over the next, say 3 years. Are you better off buying a new CPU/GFX card once, twice or three times over that time period? Say you have 300$. What is the better choice of:
a) 300$ card now to 2005
b) 150$ card for 1,5 years, then a new 150$ card
c) A $100 card every year.
And if you're a gamer - actually buy when the game you like chokes on your hardware (which may be sooner or later than you planned) - but your price point you should determine in the same way.
Buying at a specific time of the year I don't buy into. Various components change pricing rapidly and often independantly so that for a complete PC it evens out (at least compared to the steady decline you'd get by waiting until you actually need it), if you're interested in a specific component that is mainly decided by launch of new models (own or competition, typically gfx cards) or over/undersupply (typically RAM), not time of year. Of course summer vacation and Christmas affects demand, but usually they plan for this so there's not any big drops in price.
Of course this assumes that:
You have as much to spend now and in the future. If you're studying now, but in a job in a year or two, things are different. You have expectations of the technological advancement they're *going* to make. Tough one, but look at the roadmaps (but add some mark-up due to delays, things rarely happen when the roadmaps say they will) and you'll have some clue.
Kjella
$0.02 from a "Switcher" (Score:2, Informative)
Top Product Line - Least expensive offering
Instead of buying a tricked out iBook, I bought the low end PowerBook G4. That way, I am in the product line with the most features, but I don't pay a significant percentage premium for Mhz, etc.
I used a car example to convince myself. (if you don't agree with the makes I choose, pretend I choose two you do like) I can buy a top of the line Honda with leather and such for about the same as a BMW 325i without talking navigation and expensive sports packages. For the money I would have wasted on so-so Japanese Leatherette, I could have German engineering under the hood. Get it?
It's the old 80/20 rule
As in many things in life, 20% of the work yeilds 80% of the results. In the same way, my Powerbook G4 has 2 FireWire ports, built in Airport dual head capability, IR port, and a much larger screen - all things you cann't add on to a "Top of the Line iBook" at about the same price point. I didn't pay 20% more for a faster processor, and I got 95% of the same stuff.
"Yeah Baby, you're really switched [apple.com] on!" - Austin Powers
Re:$0.02 from a "Switcher" (Score:2)
Honda is rated the #2 car manufacturer in the world (behind Toyota), and BMW #4 (IIRC).
And no, I do not own, or ever have owned, a Toyota.
About six months after introduction. (Score:2)
At introduction, you are most apt to have frustrations with long delivery times, limited selection of configurations, and various teething pains because, for some reason, in the computer marketplace, ALL products are rushed out slightly before they're ready.
Also, at introduction, the only reviews you can find are from magazines that are beholden to the vendor, have received early models that may not match the production version, and are written by reviewers who barely have time to confirm that the whizzy features are THERE and haven't had time to wring them out and see whether they actually work. And will usually belong to the "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" school and won't mention a problem IF the manufacturer claims that it will be fixed in the production version.
About six months is the sweet spot.
The machine is still more or less "new." New enough that it has most of it's useful life ahead of it--where "useful life" means the new software works with both the old OS and the new OS, the new OS works with the hardware, your model is one of the ones the SQA teams are actually testing with, etc.
The machine will have been out long enough that you can read newsgroups and vendor's forum sites etc. and find out whether people are experiencing frustrations (like the Cube "cracks") and what they are.
In all likelihood, what you see on the Web site you're ordering from will actually be available, and you won't have to agonize over having to to take a high-end bundle in order to get one high-end component.
The worst of the teething pains will be over. You won't find that the box has a slightly old set of OS CD's in it and a coupon to get the up-to-date ones... the most urgent bugs will have been found and patches available for them, etc.
Since the machines will be in reasonable supply, dealers will be dealing and the "street price" will have reached some reasonable equilibrium.
Oh, and six months is _probably_ soon enough that you won't find a MAJOR new model or SIGNIFICANTLY better deal being announced IMMEDIATELY after you commit to the purchase.
One other thought. The normal pattern for a well-managed product is for the overall value to get smoothly better with time. By "overall value" I mean that at first you pay list price, then you pay list price but they throw in some extra RAM, or a good deal on a display you actually were planning to buy anyway... then maybe a small price cut... the maybe an incremental model upgrade with a new model name or number and a slightly faster processor, etc.
While the product is in that "smooth" phase, it doesn't matter enormously when you buy.
Conversely, a SUDDEN, SIGNIFICANT drop in price (or increase in overall value) is usually a signal that a firesale is in progress to clear out old inventory. IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, that's a good time to buy. But, the likelihood that you'll feel some remorse when you see the new model is high. And it's also the point at which the "useful life" of your machine has decreased noticeably.
If you WANT a firesale bargain, one strategy is to be poised to be immediately after the new models are introduced--because a) you'll at least know exactly what you're missing out on, and b) you can USUALLY find the old models, usually at the best prices they'll ever have, at least for a short while after the new models come out.
I made the switch and could not be happier (Score:2)
She did not budge for months.
Then two weeks ago she made me an offer I could not refuse: I could either:
1. Buy an iBook now, and later, "maybe", she would get me the Ti Powerbook. Or,
2. Not buy an iBook now, and later, "big maybe", she would get me the Ti Powerbook.
My reply was "duh."
I actually lucked out big time. I got a 600MHZ iBook with a retail copy of MS Office V:x (over $400), 256 MB ram (that's a $70+ factory upgrade) and Airport ($100) for $1450. And the seller was nice enough to pay for the 2-day air shipping. The laptop was pristine and I absolutely adore it. And I am the guy that usually starts his rants with this disclosure: I am a card-carrying Microsoft-dot-whore.
Yet I am having the time of my life. The laptop is tiny and really light, so I don't feel it on my backpack. The Airport card works great with the D-link AP I picked up on eBay for $80 the same day. I also got an iPod, which rocks for my daily metro rail commute.
Later I bought BBEdit Pro ($79) to help me with one of the last things that keeps me tied up to Windows: my addiction to EditPlus.
The 12-in screen is perfect, and at the office I just plug it into a 19-in monitor, so no complaints here (even at 12-in the screen is plain beautiful, much nicer than my last two ThinkPads).
Of course, I am looking forward to the Titanium Powerbook, but I am having the time of my life with my iBook. Had I dediced to buy it retail (which would be 700 MHZ instead of 600 MHZ) I would had paid $1500 just for the laptop with 128MB of ram. I would have had to buy Ms Office for about $450 (I am still shocked that it was an original, I expected the guy to screw me and send me a CDR) and the Airport card for $100.
I can only tell you to forget about the obsolescence threat. Macs retain their value really well. Notice how you can buy a $15,000 Dodge and after 2 years its value drops by half, but a VW may lose only a couple grand in the same amount of time. Macs are built very nicely, I installed Jaguar on a blueberry mac G3 and it ran just fine. It was not a scorcher but it was more usable than any windows PC that was built at that time and is still lying around.
The most pleasing part of having the mac is not having to thinker with it. Even as solid as XP is when compared to 98 (yeah, it is very relative but you have to acknowledge XP only sucks half as much as 98), I always felt like XP is a tweak in progress. Its like having a kickass muscle car that you have to go every morning, open the hood and check the carbs for minor adjustments. The mac runs like a car with a solid state ignition. It just runs.
I submitted my switch story to Apple. I told them I still sleep 4 hours a night, because the hours I used to waste keeping my PC running are now spent doing stuff on the mac.
Get your mac, use it for 6 months and if Apple has issued something better then decide if it is worth the trouble to grab the new one and sell the old one. I will not be selling mine when I get the Powerbook, since the wife is already starting to show interest in the iBook, and once my little boy starts school I might get him an eMac.
Here's a different perspective on planned obsolecence:
I bought a Sony DSC-S70 Cybershot digital camera in Summer 2000. At the time it was the best (screw you Nikon) 3.3 megapix camera, and it had a Carl Zeiss lens that was just beautiful. A month or so ago I realized my trustworthy camera is already 2 years old, which would make it a dinosaur. Or not? 2 years later I still have people praise my photos, and the automatic reaction to my photos is always "what kind of camera did you use? These pictures are really sharp!"
I toyed with the idea of upgrading to the DSC-S85 but realized my camera is just great and there is no reason for me to upgrade. Maybe you will get your mac and like it so much that when the next one comes up you won't feel like you were left behind. Just buy the fastest one you can afford and do not pay Apple prices for ram, that is what eBay is for! I got my 256MB stick for $46 instead of the $150 Apple wanted.
Mac timing is special (Score:2)
NEVER buy just before one of the big Mac expos.
Check this page out. (Score:2)
Apple's Special Deals page has fairly good deals on refurbished products.
Re:If Mac was like heaven I would never buy it (Score:2, Funny)
Re:If Mac was like heaven I would never buy it (Score:2)
Re: Well thought out (perhaps), but... (Score:2)
Re:If Mac was like heaven I would never buy it (Score:2)
Your premise is absurd. If macs were perfect - and I think they're the closest thing you can get nowadays, make of that what you will - then the computer won't interfere in getting work done. I'm sorry, but I don't use my computer to debug OS issues, I use it to get things accomplished. No crashing, no bugs, no issues, NO PROBLEM! If it lets me get my photo manipulation, movie editing, and essay writing done faster, then hey, so be it, I'm not going to complain.
The computer is a tool. Do you complain your wrench is boring because it never breaks? Your hammer head never falls off the handle so you lose interest in building things? I doubt it.
No one should be interested in tools themselves. Using the tools to do things, or making better tools, yes, but no one gets bored because their tools just work.
--Dan
How about $45 for a $80,000 SGI? (Score:2)
You can get the big, refrigerator sized SGI's for fractions of a penny on the dollar
Re:How about $45 for a $80,000 SGI? (Score:2)