Microsoft Intellimice and Bluetooth Issues? 50
An anonymous reader asks: "I just bought a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer for Bluetooth for my Mac OS X 2.2 box. Like typical Mac fashion, it was entirely plug and play, no software required. However, I go to pair the mouse with the adapter in Bluetooth prefs and it asks me for a pairing password! Others on XP SP1 using integrated/third party adapters other than the one provided by Microsoft also report the same pairing password (on a side note, the MS adapter doesn't even pair with most Palms or Cellphones, what kind of standards following is that?). I called MS tech support and they gave me a weak 'It doesn't work on the Mac.' reply. So, has anyone managed to get this mouse to work on OS X, Linux, or XP (SP1 with a third party adapter)? Perhaps a cracked security password?"
Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:1, Troll)
Seriously. You go buy a product you should always make sure that it works on the OS of youre choice. In youre defence mouses have always been kinda safe since all the new developments happened on the mouse while the interface to the computer has stayed more or less the same (compared to other comp components). Still it makes you sound like those ********** who complain that they couldn't get their new USB mouse to work on the Pentium/W95 machines. Duh!
Classic case of RTFB (Read The Fucking Box) syndrome.
BTW bluetooth is well known for not working well in integration. The real question should perhaps be, has MS or Apple broken the spec so that the two can not talk to each other?
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:4, Informative)
Mocrosoft mice (USB, I have several) apparently even function better the the competitors (Logitech) when it comes to cross-platform support. The dang logitech mice will not work with KVM switches and multiboot linux/NT/2K systems, but the stupid M$ logo on my mice will not refrain me from buying them anymore.
If M$ is abusing the USB protocol, IMO they are abandoning the standard and should not be allowed to sell their mice anymore as "USB mice", just as mutilated anti-copy CD's are officially not allowed to wear the "Compact Disc (R)" logo.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:1, Offtopic)
next
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:2)
The reference to USB was that windows 95 and for that matter NT4 never supported it. You can buy a third party product that works quite well but that is of little help to most people. I did not claim that this is a bad thing to do by MicroSoft. Just that I have encountered an awful lot of people who just didn't seem to get that 95/NT does not support USB no not even MicroSoft USB products. If I remember correctly this was in fact mentioned on the box. Something like supported systems 98/2K.
Oh and to be really obnoxious, cut out the lame "M$" crap especially when you are defending them.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:1)
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:2)
reportedly the usb support in win95 was pretty flaky, but i haven't used it.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:1)
I have a Logitech Pilot mouse with a wheel hooked up to an Addertec KVM controlling 3 linux boxes and a multi-boot dos/win98/NT4/2K/linux box. Works just fine thanks.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:2, Interesting)
Thats monopolizing the computer industry.
We have laws that used to protect consumers from that sort of abuse. They dont seem to work anymore though.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:5, Insightful)
So MS has done a security measure that is part of the bluetooth spec. Why it should be incompatible with Apples implementation I have no idea. Maybe apple has done its side wrong or has not yet implemented this.
Even if MS has done it on purpose, wich I doubt, is that really illegal or that bad? If I produce an addon for a PS2 then you can't really complain if it doesn't work with an X-box even if the connectors look the same.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe your right about the mouse, I really dont know. And your right about the PS2 add-on, too. Its if something was actually designed into something, ADDED to something, to make it incompatible with anything but a different product, that makes me furious. I dont know if thats the case, but when a manufacturer spends extra money to effectively strip functionality out of a device to use as leverage to sell another, mostly unrelated product, it is very very unfair to both the consumer and smaller businesses which have a much tighter budget. An example that gets me fuming is Apple's DVD burning software. From my understanding, otherwise compatible DVD burners are unusable from this software because Apple wanted to use their software to increase sales of their hardware. If it was a case of having to write drivers for the other DVD burners, fine, of course, why the heck would Apple do that? (Unless they were concerned more with making a great product and less about money, but not many think that way, not even me, unfortunately) But, and this may be a weak weak understanding of this, I was lead to think that Apple had DISABLED support for devices that would have worked had that disabling-code not been _added_ to the software. Thats the stuff that makes me cringe. Its an example of how it gets easier and easier to make money, the more money you have.
Side note: This is the most stratefied our economy has ever been. There has never been a more uneven distribution of the country's wealth. Thats what lights my fires these days.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:2)
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:1)
I have no idea how you could possibly fix this, or even if there is a CONSTITUTIONAL way to do it, maybe not, and rants like mine will become less and less common, but I hope not, I hope someday a person with a little bit of gumption can have just as much chance for making a difference as a big rich CEO.
You are probably smarter than george w. bush, but look where you are, and look where he is, thats evidence enough of how unfair the playing field is. the rich get richer, the poor, as a whole, get poorer, that has been the actual economic trend of the US in the last 3 decades, and its because of how easy it is to make (big) money ONCE YOU HAVE IT (and how hard it is when you dont.) There are a few "Rags to riches" stories out there, for sure. But do you think that thats the rule? I worked at a country club in High School, and I also live in a wealthy town. I *KNOW* its the exception, at least in the population sample I am exposed to.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:2)
In any case, I sure as heck don't see the "poor" getting poorer. People are starting to come off the welfare roles because they have no choice. Low and behold, these folks can get JOBS! Sure they may not be big money, but they are jobs and sometimes they make more then they did on welfare. Also, I am much better off now then I ever was in 1998/1999. I make more money then I ever have and I am finally being challenged again in my job. Personally when a job gets boring I like to move on.
I am personally against Election Finance Reform. Election Finance reform is against the first amendement by restricting your speech. If you want to run for office it is possible to get started. You don't necessarily need lots of cash either. The republicans and the democrats have their differences, but one that doesn't exist is money. They both have it.
Listen..IT IS POSSIBLE to make as much money as you want if you work hard enough for it. Do you realize that sometimes those "rich" folks failed sometimes 2-3 times before they made it big? Also, money!=Happiness. Sure I don't make all that I would like but I make enough to keep my happy. Enough to pay the bills and enough leftover to get some toys sometimes. Also consider that Bill G may not have any more hard days now, but I bet he had a lot of hard days before. I don't want to limit companies from making money. I am one of the few that believe Microsoft does not have a monopoly. Sure they have done some questionable things, but it's still possible to buy a pc with Linux on it or OSX on it (albeit there's a real monopoly there with Apple). If Microsoft had a true monopoly, then none of these things would even be interesting or would have ever had support. Linux may not have even been doing as well if it had not been for Windows. If it were a true monopoly, we'd all use Microsoft and Linux may not have been around at all. Also, I don't know of very many Data Centers that use exclusively Windows 2000 servers. Most are a ugly mesh of machines that make things possible. Also, Monopolies have to be proven by the fact that they hurt the consumer. This isn't the case as our story from yesterday about TCO differences between Windows 2000 and Linux shows that it costs less to use Windows (I don't believe it entirely either, but we'll give them the benefit of the doubt).
That said, I think that the BT keyboard and mouse not working on a mac is the matter of no drivers. They may have had to make slight changes to the way it's used inorder to make it work with BT. It will only be a matter of time before Micrsoft or someone else gets this going on OS/X,
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:1)
However, windows usage is all over the place.
Thats because microsoft has CONTROL OF THE MARKET. thats a "monopoly". They dont just have the power to make using windows "easier". They have the power to make using unix HARDER by subtle control of software and hardware vendors.
As for the rich working hard to get their money, get real. Remember how long ago JD Rockefeller was around? Now look at how much land his god damned descendants still have. They are still all ridiculously wealthy. And to a smaller (ok, much smaller) degree that happens all over america. That is why THIS IS THE MOST STRATEFIED ECONOMY IN AMERICAN HISTORY. Do some research before saying "The poor arent getting poorer". The separation is larger than it ever has been.
You talk about Bill gates having "Bad days before." It'd be nice to be so naive. Was it such a bad day when his dad, a very wealthy attorney, bought a software company for him so Billy could market their operating system to IBM?
So maybe billy does have hard times, but they aren't financially hard, never have been, he has _always_ been rich, from the moment concieved. Yet another example of the rich staying rich. Know your subject before arguing with people about it.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:2)
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:1)
Only about 2 million people that make over 200,000 a year.
Now, keep that in your head, and think about the fact that 98% of this country's wealth is controlled by less than half of one percent of the population.
Amazing isnt it? Thats "Statefication"
Now heres where your argument really is flawed though. You listed a couple, say, 5 or 6 cases of people who tried hard and made it big. And you are trying to use that to argue that the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS CAN ALL DO THE SAME THING. Yes, a few people got Really, Really, REALLY LUCKY. I cant believe you are trying to extend that to hundreds of millions of people. But go on thinking everythings OK and the poor dont get screwed. It'll make your SUV trip to the office in the morning that much more relaxing.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:2)
A password, built into the driver, the same on all the same type of mice ( I assume), not chosen by the user is a security feature? Think it through a little bit more please.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:2, Informative)
Anyway here is a link http://80211b.weblogger.com/2002/08/01 wich explains it just as unclearly.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:2)
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it bad? You really can't be serious? I agree it's probably not on purpose, it's currently a glitch or a bug, which is bad enough. If it WERE on purpose, which you propose, it's a hideous subversion of standards, worse than they've ever done.
It's not just the connector, it's a protocol. They are specifically marketing this as a BlueTooth device. That's a protocol, a refined set of specifications for how the product works, and how it interfaces. You're right in that if I made a joystick for PS2 that had the same pinout on the connector as the XBox (Which it doesnt, but we'll use your straw man example just for shits and giggles.) I'd be wrong to expect it to work on the XBox. Unless, of course, the controller/port in question was USB, or firewire, or, say, BlueTooth.
If, for example, you sold a hard drive which had a standard 50 pin connector, and you labeled it as "Narrow SCSI-2", and sold it as such, yet it only worked with the "SCSI" card that you also sold, then yes, I would be completely right in being upset.
I'm no Microsoft Basher, I personally use nothing but MS Intellimouse and Natural Keyboard products. But I would be highly pissed about buying a BlueTooth mouse and not having it work with the bluetooth adapter already in my machine.
EEE (Score:1)
Remember microsofts' previous antagonism to bluetooth?
Remember java?
Interoperability means interoperability with MS standards.
Re:Geez, a MS mouse works only on windows. (Score:1)
Standard? (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe?
What kind of standard is that?
What type of Standard? (Score:1)
Password (Score:5, Informative)
I dont know you very well (Score:2)
Maybe I have, maybe I havent. But posting it here would be a violation of the DMCA. Sorry, man.
Re:I dont know you very well (Score:1)
Re:I dont know you very well (Score:2)
Question: What does circumvention mean?
Answer: Circumvention, according to Section 1201(a)(3)(A), means "to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner." While the full scope of activities and practices that would fall under this definition has not yet been examined by the courts, any act of undoing a "lock" or "block" in a digital system may well be considered circumvention.
--
Question: Are there exceptions that allow the circumvention of technological protection systems?
Answer: There are seven exemptions built into section 1201 of the DMCA, some of which permit the circumvention of access and copy controls for limited purposes, some of which allow for the limited distribution of circumvention tools in particular circumstances. These seven exemptions are for:
* Libraries, archives, and educational institutions for acquisition purposes;
* Law enforcement and intelligence gathering activities;
* Reverse engineering in order to develop interoperable programs;
* Encryption Research;
* Protecting minors from material on the Internet;
* Protecting the privacy of personally identifying information;
* Security Testing
--
Question: How is the development of interoperable products affected by the DMCA?
Answer: The anti-circumvention provisions may hinder innovation in information technology by limiting the ability of potential competitors to reverse engineer the technological protection system behind which the original manufacturer hides their product. Reverse engineering is a traditional method used by industry to understand how systems work and create interoperable products. While the DMCA has an exception that permits reverse engineering to create interoperable products, as discussed below, it may only permit reverse engineering for interoperability between programs, but not for the purpose of making a program available in other platforms. . A strict interpretation of the DMCA may prohibit reverse engineering, regardless of whether or not copyright infringement occurs in the process.
Re:I dont know you very well (Score:2)
We took ours back (Score:2, Interesting)
Unfortunatly we ran into the same problem, what is the pairing password. After a quick search of the CD's on a windows computer and trying all the default pairing passwords we had seen, we gave up and took the mouses back, MS apparently doesn't want our money. Which is unfortunate cause while I was trying to pair the stupid thing I grew like the no wire feel of the mouse.
On another note, it is sad that there isn't more blue tooth adoption. I remember blue tooth first getting a lot of press over two years ago, and people are still early adopters today. I personally plan on getting a Sony-Ericcson T68i and a Tungsten T based purelly on the geek appeal of it all.
In the depths of Redmond... (Score:4, Funny)
Bill: Funny - that's the same as my luggage combination
Re:In the depths of Redmond... (Score:1)
Just watched that movie again last night....
Now to go change the combination on my luggage.
Re:Question (Score:1, Troll)
The problem is... (Score:4, Informative)
Also, see Wi-Fi News: News for 8/1/2002 [weblogger.com]:
Re:The problem is... (Sig comment) (Score:1)
Re:The problem is... (Score:2)
Sure, there might be some problems between products from different manufacturers, but from my experience the interoperability is pretty good. No, I'm not claiming to have tested every Bluetooth combination there is, but the ones I have tried have always worked.
Re:RTFA. (Score:2)
Common Questions (Score:1)
Don't quite know what to make of this...
At= 11495&subid=22&pg=4
http://www.microsoft.com/catalog/display.asp?site
which is the FAQ link for the product in question, it states:
This product does not offer Common Questions.
Just put in a password... (Score:2)
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/2002/0
You should just be putting in a password, your password and that's it....
Maybe you didn't set up the device in the Bluetooth Preference Pane as illustrated in the article above?
In the O'Reilley article it clearly shows setting up and setting a password for each new Bluetooth device you want to add to your machine.
Well, check out the article and see if that helps. Or google around a bit more like I started to and you may find what you need to know. One thing you can't expect is for Microsoft to provide tech support for your Mac. They don't know any more about your OS than you do. I'd never expect Apple to provde support for a One-Button mouse if a person was trying to use it on a Windows machine, would you? or how about hooking up an Airport device to a Windows XP machine? Yes it should be possible and should work just like all other 802.11b devices but since it was made only for Apple products and they don't claim otherwise, I would be SOL and on my own.