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Should You Trust Website Customer Reviews? 649

crevette asks: "I was looking on Amazon for some gizmo when I got a review from G. Cooke, TX, who is in the top 10 reviewers. Out of curiosity, I checked her reviews... She has 658 reviews, many on the same day, which include everything from knife sets to a plastic duck! She reviews many books on the same day... She must be spending hundreds of dollars on useless stuff every month. Worst of all, most of her reviews are 5 stars. Do you think those people are paid by Amazon or some company? Do you trust them? If not (like I tend to think) what can we do about it?"
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Should You Trust Website Customer Reviews?

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  • Cheap reviewers (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:11PM (#4873290)
    go to Google's new beta product search [google.com] to find cheap reviewers!

    fp
    icblf
  • Trust (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kjd ( 41294 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:11PM (#4873295)
    It's a public website; anyone can post a review. Trust it as much as you do Slashdot. :)
    • Re:Trust (Score:5, Informative)

      by blackketter ( 72157 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:14PM (#4873320)
      Almost true. Amazon's reviews are approved by Amazon before they appear. Of course, it appears that there's quite a low threshold for approval.

      • Re:Trust (Score:5, Funny)

        by Jaysyn ( 203771 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @04:07PM (#4873990) Homepage Journal
        Amazon's "approvers" are probably on loan from the Patent Office...

        Jaysyn

      • Re:Trust (Score:5, Informative)

        by Saige ( 53303 ) <evil.angela@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Thursday December 12, 2002 @04:35PM (#4874297) Journal
        It's very odd what gets approved and what doesn't.

        A kid writes a review along the lines of "This game is awesome you must buy it now!" for a game that won't be released for another month gets posted.

        Write an in-depth review of Super Monkey Ball 2, comparing it to the first one, and then saying it's not nearly as good, however, and get your review deleted. Apparently saying negative things about a potentially big title, and say them clearly and justify them, and get your review squashed because it might cost them money.

        (And, yes, I have a number of reviews posted already, and I know the guidelines, so it wasn't violating them that kept the review from being posted)
        • Re:Trust (Score:5, Funny)

          by platypus ( 18156 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @07:57PM (#4876287) Homepage
          Yeah, amazon seems to be really, uhmm, anal about the reviews.

          Take for instance an cd from david hasselhof, let's say this [amazon.com] and others.
          You'll find:


          • 3 people recommended The Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex for Men in addition to Looking For-Best of David Hasselhoff
          • 3 people recommended Masturbation Memoirs 1 & 2 instead of Looking For-Best of David Hasselhoff [IMPORT]
          • Gifts to buy for people you don't really like: A list by mikelipari, creative gift buyer



          Really, I bet the people at amazon are laughing their ass of when they see something like that.

          PS:The song Hot Shot City is particularly good.
    • Re:Trust (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I heard an NPR story on the person who has the second most reviews with Amazon (somewhere in the 4000's i think) He was legite. These people are addicted to posting reviews and i am sure they post most of them at the same time. I don't know how they get their products buying or promos.
    • Re:Trust (Score:3, Funny)

      by mceder ( 101133 )
      Oh no! And I bought that Segway based on their users review.. I mean, sure I will invest $5,000 based on what other people think!
    • Trust but Verify (Score:4, Interesting)

      by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @04:02PM (#4873933)
      Heh, a little oxymoron from Reagan I was reminded of by what I'm about to say...

      If these suspicious persons have reviewed so many products, they may have a reviewed a few of which you have personal knowledge. Those are golden data points.

      If there aren't any such datapoints, maybe somebody whose reviews you DO agree with has reviewed products the suspicious person has also reviewed. Those are, shall we say, silver data points.

      Obviously what I'm working up to here is an automated system for finding short paths in networks of reviewers. Not a Web of Trust, but a Web of Agreement, built upon the mutual information (the degree of agreement) between various reviewers.

      I have seen "mutual interest" systems such as for music. Those are useless because of shills that (pretend to) like everything, but a system built on mutual information would find those reviewers to have 0 information content.

    • by lugonn ( 555020 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @04:16PM (#4874116)
      They are the department in charge of posting the reviews. (Note: I was a temp there for a couple months)

      In early '99, they were getting about 5000 reviews in a day. Each review is checked twice, once by a filter(dirty words), and the other by eyes(relavence). There were about 20 catalogue people then. They post all book listings, CD's, products, answer crazed author questions(my fav part)...and if they have time, post reviews.

      If you guys think Amazon is trying to pursuade you with reviews...your high on conspiricy juice. They are pure fluff for your sake. We barley had enough time to add new products to the site, let alone check reviews. Trust me, Amazon would LOVE to get rid of the review system, cuase it is a pain in the ass to maintain and labor intensive. But they keep it cuase customers wanted/want it.

      And no, we didn't re-order the reviews and put the good ones at the top. It is a pure FIFO (First-In-First-Online) system. People just usually post if they really hate, or really like something. So the reviews are more rants than critiques and tend to be very biased...just like /.

      P.S. I still smell like the Art Bar too!

  • Makes you think (Score:4, Insightful)

    by _LORAX_ ( 4790 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:12PM (#4873303) Homepage
    Even if she was a serial liar Amazon is not inclined to do anything since she has 5 stars and will probably induce others to buy product.

    As for all the reviews being on the same day(s) mamby she had boring days where she types in reviews for things she already had?
  • Meta-moderation? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by caseydk ( 203763 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:13PM (#4873307) Homepage Journal
    Sounds like a pretty good case for meta-moderation. That'd atleast let people know who the idiots/bad reviewers are.
    • Is that what the "x out of x people found this review helpful" feature is for?
      • Re:Meta-moderation? (Score:2, Interesting)

        by tigertigr ( 610853 )
        Yeah, usually you can spot the good reviews because of the number of people who've found it useful AND for the fact that it goes into detail about what's also wrong about the product.

        Generally you can get a good idea by reading from various reviews, too, so it seems to me their system is still pretty good in spite of potential fake reviews.
    • Re:Meta-moderation? (Score:5, Informative)

      by goon america ( 536413 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:17PM (#4873367) Homepage Journal
      Try the "Was this review helpful to you?" link at the bottom of each review.
    • You can meta-moderate, kinda. Just go to http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-rev iews/-/A3M174IC0VXOS2/1/ref%3Dcm%5Fcr%5Fauth/002-0 341979-8540007 [amazon.com] and select each of her reviews. Then click "No" where it asks "Was this review helpful".

      Also note that the top reviewers are apparently chosen by Amazon customers. Exactly how, I haven't figured out yet.

      • Re:Meta-moderation? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by yog ( 19073 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:55PM (#4873837) Homepage Journal
        I read through some of her reviews and found them generally well written, if rather brief. Why would you want to click "No" for each of her reviews--sounds pretty pointless to me. First of all, they are well written and useful. Also, a savvy sysadmin at Amazon would notice a pattern, with all your votes coming from the same IP, suggesting it's the work of a mischievous person. You'd need to spread your connections out, dialing in repeatedly, or do it from the library, etc. Once again... what a waste of time. It would be more useful if you wrote your own honest reviews.

        I have seen other Top 50 reviews that were very poorly written--typos, spelling and grammatical errors, gushing with enthusiasm but lacking in critical insight. There does seem to be a pattern that while a review need not be well written, it must endorse the product to earn its writer a coveted Top 10 spot.
  • by bort27 ( 261557 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:13PM (#4873313)
    Step 1: Publish a book called the Gail Cooke story.
    Step 2: Sell it on Amazon.Com.
    Step 3: See if Gail Cooke gives it 5 stars.

    Bort.
  • by Walt Dismal ( 534799 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:14PM (#4873321)
    I read a bunch of Cooke's reviews. She has nothing bad to say, nothing critical, and all her reviews read like an ad. Yeah, I'd say something's wrong here.
    • On the other side of the coin, there is a usenet kook who published a book and listed it on Amazon. He got swarms of (very funny) negative reviews from his usenet detractors. But these were later removed from Amazon's site, probably at the behest of the kook.

    • A high proportion of the Amazon reviews are 5 stars. That's largely becuase they're posted by people who are enthusiasts for the item in question. I've even posted a few 5-star reviews myself, but I quickly get tired of gushing. Most of my reviews are in the 2-4 range. 4 means I think it's very good, with no uncorrectable flaws.

      It's more fun to post a well-deserved 1-star and watch the adoring faithful get mad as hell.

    • I write reviews for my own web site, not for Amazon, but most of mine are positive (though fewer than 10% make it onto my "best" [dannyreviews.com] list). The reason for that is that with several million books in print and hundreds of thousands of new ones printed each year, people need help finding the good ones, so negative reviews aren't as useful.

      I make the occasional exception for very popular books which I think are overrated.

      Danny.

      • by hondo77 ( 324058 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @08:21PM (#4876491) Homepage

        ...so negative reviews aren't as useful.

        I disagree. In fact, when I go to Amazon and am confronted with dozens of reviews, I tend to re-sort the list from lowest rated to highest. I want to know why people don't like something. Take the case of deep fryers I was recently looking at for a Christmas gift. The highly rated reviews gushed about this and that but the negative reviews were about things like hot oil spilling onto the counter and other fire hazards. That is helpful stuff. Of course you get negative reviews that aren't helpful, just like positive reviews, but I find well-written negative reviews to be very valuable.

        • Maybe Amazon's reviews are different. When someone is looking at reviews on Amazon, they have already selected a particular book and are (for popular titles) looking at a large number of reviews. Whereas if they're browsing my site, or another "one review of each book" site, they're more likely to be looking for something to read rather than making up their mind about a particular title. (Though if they're using Google to browse reviews across multiple sites maybe that's not true.)

          Another difference is that most of the books I review are obscure. Most of Amazon's books are obscure too, but their reviews definitely cover popular titles better - how many thousand reviews of the Harry Potter books are there?

          Danny.

  • by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:14PM (#4873327) Journal
    and so should you.

  • Extremes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by de_boer_man ( 459797 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:14PM (#4873329)
    Most of the reviews that I see are either very positive or very negative. There are very few reviews that label a product as simply okay or adequate.

    This is probably due to the fact that only people that have had extremely positive or extremely negative experiences with a particular product will actually take the time to post. Well, other than a few people with too much time on their hands that want to be listed as top reviewers.
  • Stalkers (Score:5, Interesting)

    by joeflies ( 529536 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:14PM (#4873330)
    On KGO Radio in the Bay Area, an author called Len Tillum's law advice program last weekend. The author asked for legal advice on what to do about a stalker who (in addition to stalking her personally) is also stalking her online, making negative statements about the book.

    The point I'm making is that the reviewers aren't always participating in a community, but also acting out a personal agenda as well, which other customers may take in as fact.

  • by jdludlow ( 316515 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:15PM (#4873335)
    How about ignoring the reviews if you don't trust them? This isn't difficult.
    • by hoagieslapper ( 593527 ) <hoagieslapper@gmail.com> on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:21PM (#4873426)
      I think the question the author is trying to ask is how can we get truthful reviews on a product. Considering what marketers are willing to do, I would not put 'padding' their reivews past them.
      • by jdludlow ( 316515 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:33PM (#4873603)
        Yeah, I guess it was a poorly worded question on his part. Still, people need to use common sense when they read these things. I do use online reviews to make buying decisions, and I've found that the quality of the reviews depends a lot on what you're trying to purchase.

        For instance, technical books tend to have good reviews on Amazon. This is probably because it's more difficult for a marketer to fake that stuff. I've also used reviews on others sites before buying a lawn mower, snow thrower, and a computer parts supplier. I had to dig through more noise, but the results have all been positive.

        Probably the worst reviews that I've found have been for video games. It's nothing but blind fans, posting mindless garbage about how much this game rules.

        What I usually do is look for trends in the negative reviews. If there is a common theme emerging, then I might stay away from that product or company. The same can be said for the reviews that people get on Ebay. If someone has a few negatives, and they all say that he didn't ship on time, there might be a problem there.

        A reviewer who takes the time to use proper grammar and explains his thoughts logically will obviously carry more weight.

        Again, it's just common sense, with a little luck thrown in.
  • brilliant (Score:2, Funny)

    by tps12 ( 105590 )
    I'm going to go post an Amazon review calling into question the validity of "Ask Slashdot" responses.
  • Public reviews (Score:2, Informative)

    by Prune ( 557140 )
    Besides Amazon, be wary of other sites that host reviews, you never know when there might be essentially bribes moving behind the scenes. I don't even trust epinions: even though they do not sell things themselves, the stores they link to could be giving them financial incentives to raise the scores of products they sell.
  • by cp4 ( 250029 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:15PM (#4873344)
    Might explain why she reads so much....

    Name: G. Cooke
    Nickname: pagebypage
    E-mail: grospoin@aol.com
    Reviewer Rank: 8
    About me: So many good books, so many wonderful things....so few hours. For me, reading and trying is sheer pleasure, a boon companion, and sometimes work as reviewing is my profession. I hold membership in the National Book Critics Circle, and write for newspapers across the U.S. Thanks to all who have expressed an interest in my reviews, and thanks to Amazon for providing a forum in which we can exchange ideas.
  • She gets around (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SplendidIsolatn ( 468434 ) <splendidisolatn@yah[ ]com ['oo.' in gap]> on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:15PM (#4873346)
    Figuring out her Email address, then Googling it reveals Ms. Cooke probably does nothing but writes reviews [google.com] allllllllll day long.

    Man, what a horrible way to waste time. Well, back to reloading Slashdot....
  • by _Sambo ( 153114 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:16PM (#4873350)
    This person's writing style is descriptive and consise. Far too good for a "normal" user.

    This says to me: Someone is being paid to write good reviews for any product out there. A mini-Marketing agent if you will.

    It's somewhat reminiscent of the Microsoft PR agent who "switched from Mac to Windows", or it's like the "grassroots pro-Microsoft" campaign that Bill sponsored in the opening days of the Anti-Trust court proceedings.

    Trying to appear unsolicited and innocent, but in reality, it's just someone's job.

    Money is the root of *most* work.
  • by Alethes ( 533985 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:16PM (#4873352)
    If you can't trust Amazon.com user opinions, what makes you think you can trust answers on Ask Slashdot? Many of us rattle off about every issue out of ignorance and get modded up despite that ignorance. Can you trust us?
    • by Rayonic ( 462789 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @07:25PM (#4876032) Homepage Journal
      So... I shouldn't trust your opinion because you're just some Slashdot user... but then that means that your statement isn't true, so I can trust the opinions of Slashdot users... but if your comment is true, then I can't trust your opinion... but then that means that I can trust your opinion... but then that means that I can't... but then I can... then I can't... can... can't... can.. can't.. can can't cancan'tcancan'tc#f;DfgA3q±}ܦ+£@Çü8

      BUFFER OVERFLOW
  • They were taken down shortly after I was pointed to them, but a group of folks did these amazingly funny reviews of Bil Keane's the Family Circus comic strip collections.

    The reviews, that I recall, spoke of how the comics confronted the uber secret freemason's and so forth. I believe there were quite a few Kafka and Nietsche references as well. Hilarious.

    Now I have a new google project for the day. Somebody somewhere must have saved 'em!

  • I've personally found amazon's reviewing system, as well as the automated "If you like this, you'll like this" system.

    I really found the trouble Amazon got in for "faking" the system mentioned above linking your laster book purchase to a pair of pants to advertise thier new clothing line. ex. readers who like Stephen King, also enjoy these fleece lined Jeans. there was a huge uproar of false advertising claims over this joke.

    Cnet is definatly a mixed bag. When download gets a 1 star review because some newb user with a hosed system can't install the app properly what use is his review? I love CNet but the reviewing isn't always helpful
  • by Junks Jerzey ( 54586 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:17PM (#4873373)
    90% of the reviews I see fall into one of these categories:

    1. 5 star reviews from crazy fan-types who absolutely love some movie/musician/cartoon, etc.

    2. Anti-fans who post 1 star reviews about stuff they can't stand being popular.

    3. Fans who've turned into anti-fans, claiming that item X "isn't as good as their previous efforts" and that the creator "has sold out."
    • by goon america ( 536413 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:36PM (#4873629) Homepage Journal
      That only happens with really popular media stuff, which really doesn't need amateur reviewing.

      Book reviews are much more thoughtful and balanced. Off-beat music and movies have less emotional reviews. Reviews of technical items like DVD players tend to be very helpful regarding the features and pitfalls of that particular product.

      I tend to pay a lot more attention to the reviews which list both positives and negatives, rather than the raving 5 or 1 star reviews.

    • by Peter Trepan ( 572016 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @04:10PM (#4874031)
      Slashdot's version:

      Linux: Customer Review: * * * * *
      Linux is the most advanced operating system on Earth!!! And I just loved figuring out how to compile the source code for my keyboard driver!!!

      Macintosh: Customer Review: * - 1/2
      Who the hell makes a computer with just one mouse button? And only 60 frames per second in Quake III? I require at least 850.

      Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Customer Review: * * - 1/2
      I liked George Lucas' old stuff. You know, before he sold out to Hollywood.*


      *Dow Jones/Australia disclaimer: No claim is made that George Lucas is any better or worse than other overrated sci-fi directors.
    • There are also people like me who rate things as a method of tracking what they've already seen/read/used.

      I find Netflix's rating engine to be a perfect method of tracking what movies I've already seen so I don't go and accidentally rent the same one twice. This has led me to have an awful lot of ratings (~2000 DVDs), but I can be fairly confident that everything in my rental queue is new.

      Of course, rating things (1-5 stars) is very different from reviewing something. Reviewing something requires you to think rather hard about what you liked or didn't like about a product and is usually done because you have a strong emotion about it and feel the need to tell the world about it. Rating something is so much easier that it can be done without much thought at all, making it much more common.

      Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
  • by kvn299 ( 472563 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:17PM (#4873377)
    I've come to rely on Amazon.com not only for good deals, but also for basic product information. They carry such a wide range of items and have detailed information about everything.

    I also admit I take the product reviews very seriously when I am going to buy something, especially if it's not cheap. I do this even if I don't plan on buying it from Amazon.

    I doubt I am the only person like this. It would seem only logical that companies would do anything they can to get favorable reviews about their products on Amazon.

    I guess you just have to read as many of the reviews as possible and make a judgement call. I do tend to look for negative reviews as they're definitely not paid for! However, those also must be taken with a grain of salt.
  • by foxtrot ( 14140 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:17PM (#4873379)
    I rate Amazon's reviews at five stars! Nothing could be better!

    -G. Cooke, TX

    Review * 1/2

    I rate Slashdot at a star and a half. Definitely take anything you hear there with a grain of salt.

    -G. Cooke, TX

  • who's responsible (Score:3, Informative)

    by perrin5 ( 38802 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:18PM (#4873383) Homepage
    Before any good/useful course of action can be taken, there are several steps to take:
    1) Determine if there is some 'shady' reviewing going on (although this looks like a pretty solid set of circumstancial evidence).

    2) Find out who's responsible for it.
    If it is amazon, itself, that is doing this sort of thing, then the only actions that can be taken are public outcry, and possibly an e-mail campaign. After all, they may be using it to drum up business, and as we have all learned from spammers: if it works, they'll keep on doing it.
    On the other hand, if it is some third party submitting reviews, it might be possible to get Amazon to remove all reviews by said person...

    Just a thought
  • The question makes me wonder if most /. comments are *really* posted by Taco, et al.

    "Hey, 'Neal check out this MS bashing comment I wrote under the name Balbazare prince of darkness. hahaha" - Taco
    "I'll mod that as +5 funny!" -CowboyNeal

  • Ignore them...

    There are many other sites out there that have reviewers that are paid to be unbiased. Most aren't of course, but we can feel comfortable in that illusory world as we check up on products on the sites the specialize in them :)

    Seeing as Bezos probably isn't monitoring this thread looking for suggestions, the question of what can be done about it is pretty moot. If you want to eliminate the frauds, get a job at Amazon, claw your way up through the ranks and change policy.

    Good luck! :)
  • Other reviewers (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Changer2002 ( 577488 )
    I remember seeing some news story about this guy who's competing with another lady for the most number of Amazon reviews. He basically sits around and reviews tons of stuff that he has himself, and he does buy a good amount as well. I don't think there was any implication of anyone sponsoring him since all his reviews were fairly random. I think it's basically a case of one of those people who collect things obsessively, in this case it's reviews. In any case I usually do trust reviews from product specific websites (like a digital camera site), not something as varied as Amazon.
  • by CKW ( 409971 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:21PM (#4873437) Journal
    .
    I was once looking through some of my old favorite Sci-Fi books on Amazon, and noticed a few "top 100" reviewer reviews. I noticed that they all had one thing in common. Two paragraphs. The first paragraph was so generic and "ooh ahh neato" that it could have been about anything. The last paragraph looked like it was paraphrased right from the back/inside cover.

    So I went to one of the top 10 reviewers. She claimed to be a librarian who speed reads one book a day, and rewviewed each one. ALL her SciFi book reviews looked just like one another, and all of them had 5 stars out of 5, even some of the worst SciFi I've ever read in my life.

    They don't just need meta-moderation. They need personalized meta-moderation. I want to select the group of people whose reviews I trust, and the people whose reviews of reviewers I trust. Maybe the "tragedy of the commons" is ok for Slashdot, but I'd sure hate to have that affecting the reviews that I see for actual products. I want other people like me to review the products that I buy.

    This problem ranks right up there along with eBay auctions and the fact that they "close" at a given point in time. In the real world, an auction continues as long as people are making bids. eBay should extend an auction by 5 minutes or an hour or a day each time someone bids on an item. That'd get rid of "last minute bid services". (I'd suggest a 5 minute extension - because then there's a natural time for everyone interested in an item to "gather" together and do the final bidding.)
    .
  • by Bocaj ( 84920 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:21PM (#4873441) Homepage
    Forget the star/number/etc. rating and read the reviews. People that have actually used a product will have real comments about the good, bad, and ugly of it. Ignor reviewers that say "Wonder product! I am completely satisfied." or "Waist of money!". They don't tell you anything. Stuff like "The battery door broke after a few days, but the company Fed-Ex'ed me a new one.", or "Works great with Bob's widget.12.tgz drivers!.", give you actual information about what happened when they used the product. Judge for yourself how many stars they're worth.
  • Safety in numbers (Score:5, Interesting)

    by migstradamus ( 472166 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:21PM (#4873445) Homepage
    I will rarely take the word of any one reviewer, top 10 or not. They often have simple factual mistakes about products. But if you read a dozen or so comments you can usually put together a decent impression and collect useful data. Review spam campaigns like the Rush Limbaugh-led attack on Michael Moore's book are rare.

    I would certainly rather have the reviews than not. I've bought many cool things from Amazon that I never would have considered or even found (music mostly) if not for the reviews and comments.

    Mig
    • Agreed (Score:3, Insightful)

      by uradu ( 10768 )
      There's lots of noise in the reviews, but you can still filter out a useful signal. Many reviews are also obviously dumb, such as the guy that ordered a CD player, loved it, but decided he didn't need it after all, so he gave it one star. Brains entirely optional. After reading through ten or twenty reviews of the CD player, you'd find recurring mentions of good or bad battery life, skipping/no skipping etc, which is usually all you need.
  • by twitchkat ( 566638 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:22PM (#4873464) Homepage

    Check out Henry Raddick's stuff -- I think the guy's got a dry British sense of humor and he can be really funny:

    Henry Raddick's reviews [amazon.com]

    Quick sample:

    Surviving Divorce: A Handbook for Men
    by Gay Search

    A well-written and challenging book which I bought for my Uncle Sandy as he attempts to cope with the aftershock of divorce. Unfortunately he thought the author's name was a coping strategy being suggested and he refused to read it.

    (Five Stars; 38 out of 40 people found useful)

  • by GregGardner ( 66423 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:23PM (#4873484) Homepage
    From the beginning Epinions.com thought, "That would be great/cheap content to just have people post their opinions about products, but why would you trust random people?" So they baked in a rather complex "web of trust" into their website from Day 1.

    If you see someone whose reviews reflect your own opinions, you can add them to your list of trusted people. Then when you see a list of reviews, your trusted people's reviews are at the top. Furthermore, your trusted people also have people they trust and you are likely to turst those people too, just maybe not quite as much. So your trusted people's trusted people's reviews bubble up near to the top, and so on.

    Also, if you see some reviewer who you think is way off base, you can block them and never see their reviews again. It's a clever scheme, and if you use the site enough, you can tailor it to serve you decent reviews quickly. And it's all based on your opinion of other people's opinions, unlike Amazon which just bubbles up reviews from people who write a lot of reviews. I think quantity of reviews is hardly a good metric to use.
    • by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:51PM (#4873809)
      I like Usenet, because it is an exchange rather than a bunch of stand-alone reviews. Someone can still give bad information, but they tend to get shouted down.
  • by skt ( 248449 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:24PM (#4873498)
    This is nothing new, I tend to take peer reviews in a forum setting with a grain of salt.. it is too easy for a company to post positive information about their products or negative reviews of the competition.

    I still like google to find more professional reviews of computer hardware and consumer electronics like PDAs. I was looking up information on the palm m130 vs. the m515 today, for example, and found google invaluable. After reading about four reviews on different sites, I feel that I have a good understanding of both products. The highest ranked reviews were actually very professional and well written too, something that is harder and harder to find now..
  • by ReelOddeeo ( 115880 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:27PM (#4873529)
    There was an article on CNet [com.com] last Friday about automatic recommendation systems. What happens when systems automatically recommend things?

    In a incident that highlights the pitfalls of online recommendation systems, Amazon.com on Friday removed a link to a sex manual that appeared next to a listing for a spiritual guide by well-known Christian televangelist Pat Robertson.

    The two titles were temporarily linked as a result of technology that tracks and displays lists of merchandise perused and purchased by Amazon visitors. Such promotions appear below the main description for products under the title, "Customers who shopped for this item also shopped for these items."

    Basically, the gist of it is that people shopping for the televangellist's spiritual guide, and Amazon's recommendation system suggested that people who bought this also bought another book called The Men's Guide to Anal Sex.

    I'm speculating, but I would guess that such a system could be hacked by ordering both books, and then shortly later cancelling your order. The order cancellation probably does not remove the association of these two items in the recommendation database tables.
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:29PM (#4873553)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by RaboKrabekian ( 461040 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:29PM (#4873556) Journal
    Lots of good stuff here, just browse through them:

    Henry Raddick's Reviews [amazon.com]

    Here's an example, for the book "Surviving Divorce: A Handbook for Men" by Gay Search:

    A well-written and challenging book which I bought for my Uncle Sandy as he attempts to cope with the aftershock of divorce. Unfortunately he thought the author's name was a coping strategy being suggested and he refused to read it.
    • by vandemar ( 82106 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @04:10PM (#4874026)
      Henry Raddick's works are an example of reviews as an entertainment media. Every one of his reviews are insidiously funny, yet giving the impression of being informative at the same time. I seriously doubt that he has read any of the books he reviews. Here's another example:

      "The Maltese : Diminutive Aristocrat" by Vicki Abbott, George Gwilliam

      A first rate guide to this extraordinary breed. The book deals with all aspects of ownership and care with admirable thoroughness it even gives tips on how to spot when your dog is liquefying into a pool of itself.

      He's also the same person who wrote the Andrew Lloyd Weber reviews [theregister.co.uk] that were taken down by Amazon. Funny stuff.
    • Heh heh...

      For God, Why Did Dad Lose His Job? by Katherine Marko, Kathy Counts (Illustrator)

      A truly wonderful guide which has enabled me to explain my recent sacking for vandalising company property to my children in terms of a minor act of redemption. First rate.

      Hey, at least this guy is imaginative.
    • Just had to add another Raddick review, for the video "Know Your Pug"

      ***** Tremendous February 24, 2002

      An excellent guide which is helping me get to know my pug Grendel, which is not an easy job. My children have taken to attaching surprisingly realistic stick-on ears to his rump and he turned around and bit me recently when I tried to put a piece of cheese rind into what I thought was his mouth.

  • by Ringwraith ( 230940 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:31PM (#4873573)
    I know I have seen one review from the #1 reveiwer -- Harriet Klausner -- and it was awful. It's for the book The Scar [amazon.com] by China Mieville, and it's terrible. I think she read the back cover, the first few pages, and a few other reviews to make her own review. She ends the review with this sentence: "Award winning China Mieville (see Perdido Street Station) is bound to more than just receive nominations; she is going to win many trophies for this strong story."

    As most of you know, China Mieville is NOT A SHE. Anyone who actually had the book couldn't miss this fact, since there is a big picture of him on the back flap.

    They do have some moderation, though. When I first saw the review it was one of the featured reviews on the main book page, but now that 12 people have said it was "unhelpful" it has fallen to the third page.

    Anyway, that should tell you something about how good the top reviewers are ...
  • by LarsWestergren ( 9033 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:32PM (#4873585) Homepage Journal
    Obvious answer - Nope, don't trust Amazon reviews. I'm quite sure if there are too many negative reviews of an item, they remove them. How many items have you found with an average of less than three stars?

    When the "listmania" stuff first came I made a couple of lists one evening when I was bored, one of them was "10 worst films ever", featuring Armageddon, Waterworld, Independence Day and so on. It was quickly removed.

    Still, the filters and the reviewers sometime let through stuff, and people can still take the piss out of some products if they [amazon.com]
    are creative...

    "What really makes David Hasselhoff stand apart from his contemporaries is his magnificent voice. Some critics have compared his resounding tenor to that of Mario Lanza or Johnny Hartman, but I would compare it more to a wounded jackal getting whipped by a screaming pornfilm fluffer.

    So enjoy this comprehensive collection of Hasselhoff's greatest. You won't regret a moment of it!"


    Check it out, there are 449 reviews in that style...
  • Personal experience (Score:5, Informative)

    by Woogiemonger ( 628172 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:34PM (#4873610)
    I ordered a book from an Amazon "zShop".. these zShops.. aka 3rd party sellers... are rated by customers and given comments. Well, I ordered a used book and apparently somewhere in the text description was "This book is not the one listed!" and it mentioned a different title. I just saw the picture which was the book I wanted, saw the condition as "Like new".. and ordered it. To cut to the chase, after I got the wrong book, I demanded they refund shipping as well as the price of the book. They refused. I gave them a horrible review on Amazon. Amazon only shows the 10 most recent reviews on the individual "zShop page" unless you "click for more reviews"... Mind you, for this particular zShop.. lastpagebooks specifically, the last review on them was quite some time ago. The next day, I see my review is suddenly #30 or so, with a bunch of one line "This store is great! A++++++++!" comments, 5 stars for each. And my comment is suddenly lost in obscurity. Apparently Amazon has no problem with this, or at the very least, no solution.
  • by niola ( 74324 ) <jon@niola.net> on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:37PM (#4873645) Homepage
    Not to criticize or defend this review system, I think I have come up with what could be a reasonable explanation for many of the reviews being on the same day - a batch queue. Amazon does not allow you to post reviews in realtime. You post a review, and they review the review, and then post it. The way I imagine it would work is that someone reads through hundreds and hundreds of reviews in a month and then clicks on a button to force them live from a queue. One reason I know they do in fact review the reviews is that sometimes you will see somewhere where someone posts a price or a URL in the review, but Amazon brackets it out like [removed] or something like that.

    --Jon
  • by markv242 ( 622209 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:40PM (#4873679)
    She gives five stars to a men's electric razor on October 14.
    She gives five stars to _another_ men's electric razor on November 26.

    She gives five stars to an iron on October 1.
    She gives five stars to _another_ iron on November 23.

    She gives five stars to a cordless vaccuum on August 11.
    She gives five stars to _another_ cordless vaccuum on September 7.

    She gives five stars to a regular vaccuum on August 6.
    She gives five stars to _another_ regular vaccuum on October 13.

    Come to your own conclusions. My feeling is that she is either:

    A: a professional product reviewer, in which case Amazon should include a disclaimer that she is being paid for her reviews,

    B: a compulsive liar / attention-seeker,

    C: a collection of reviewers all publishing under one pseudonym, in which case Amazon should include a disclaimer that she is not a real person.

    D: the marketing department for Amazon / Target, in which case Amazon should include a disclaimer that she is being paid and is not a real person.

  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:42PM (#4873697)
    When Ever asking people for an opinion about someting most people seem to have a very static 2 sided view on things thus 5 Stars and 1 Stars.
    Lets use Slashdot as an example.
    What ever Microsoft Does 1 star.
    What ever Linux Does 5 Stars.
    (They both did the same thing)

    Marketing 1 Star.
    Getting a Job 5 Stars.

    Apple 2.5 Stars.
    Half of the people are 5 Stars
    The other Half of the people are 1 star.

    And even look at moderation How many moderations do you see as 5 and -1 (1 and 2 happen without moderation) but there is usually only a little bit or 3s and 4s.
  • by MrCaseyB ( 200218 ) <casey_slash@luxC ... m minus language> on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:46PM (#4873743) Homepage Journal
    If anyone read the book "21 Dog Years, Doing Time @ Amazon.com"
    Mike Daisey discusses how he was a customer service call center lacky but also reviewed childrens toys for the site. He did this from home on his own time, The funny thing was he would fall far behind his reviews and have closets full of unreviewed Fisher Price and Playskool toys laying about the house.

    Good thing a fat guy with no children who's never been a parent was reviewing childrens toys.
  • Amazon's #1 Reviewer (Score:3, Interesting)

    by John Harrison ( 223649 ) <johnharrison@@@gmail...com> on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:52PM (#4873813) Homepage Journal
    can be found here. [amazon.com] As you can see, Harriet Klausner has reviewed over 4,000 items, which seem to be mostly books. I challenge you to find a book that she didn't like! Four stars is the lowest score that she has ever given as far as I can tell. She must be on vacation or something because she has only posted two reviews this month. Also, notice that her reviews are all three paragraphs long and the second paragraph tends to start with the word "However". Maybe she is just a book reviewing bot. She certainly doesn't write interesting reviews.
  • by Jboy_24 ( 88864 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:53PM (#4873829) Homepage
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-rev iews/-/AA9IP6AYACFK5/102-2168050-5628139

    Henry Raddicks reviews need to be read in full to get some of the jokes he mentions. He has a whole cast of characters (homophobic uncle, poor dog he's always trying some crazy theory on) that he references in many of his reviews..

    Examples...

    Handbook of Meat Product Technology
    An admirably thorough guide to the tools of the production-line meat processing trade. The superb colour photographs particularly made it a perfect gift for my 15 year old daughter who is showing alarming signs of not becoming vegetarian.

    God, Why Did Dad Lose His Job?

    A truly wonderful guide which has enabled me to explain my recent sacking for vandalising company property to my children in terms of a minor act of redemption. First rate.

  • by airrage ( 514164 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:56PM (#4873846) Homepage Journal
    Okay, running Gail Cooke through an Anagram Generator, I get 'A GECKO OIL'. As we all know a gecko is a type of reptile, or should I say snake? We all know that selling 'Snake Oil' conjures up a marketing scam. So, Gail Cooke = Snake Oil.

    Thank you. Is there like a prize or something for like the best post ever? I now kneel as you bestow thy Karma upon thee.
  • by FreeLinux ( 555387 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @03:57PM (#4873868)
    Most all reviews are worthless because they simply lack any context. I've made this comment about the Slashdot book reviews too.

    When Joe Blow say this product is great or that product is crap, it really means NOTHING, and putting any faith into these reviews is a major mistake. Unless the reviewer gives some background about themselves and their history with the product or category of products you have no way of knowing how they relate to you.

    This is especially true of technical book reviews. Without having some idea about the persons knowlege and skill level and what experience they have, there is no real value in the review. For this reason, when I write book reviews I also include a brief resume listing things like years of experience in that field, certifications, other books that I have read on the subject, etc.
  • by banda ( 206438 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @04:00PM (#4873896)
    So there's this Slashdot user named "Anonymous Coward" that posts several thousand times PER DAY! Very little of what he or she writes is useful. I'm having a hard time believing that one person can generate this much garbage.
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @04:15PM (#4874100)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Artifex ( 18308 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @04:35PM (#4874294) Journal
    The nice thing about the reviews, whether they are valid or not, is that they lead to more books being shown if your recommendations list. Why is this good? Remember: if you buy something from Amazon based on its recommendation, and you didn't like it, they'll take it back.
  • by theCat ( 36907 ) on Thursday December 12, 2002 @07:08PM (#4875900) Journal
    We all know about "Google Bombing". This is the same thing, "Amazon Bombing", and involving public perceptions and trust being leveraged over the Internet. Amazon is a huge retail presence, and on top of that they have a public interface to their product review/promotion API! Cha-ching...the sound of money.

    But the same thing happened when the snake oil salesman rode his wagon into town in the 1800's. There would be a plant, a shill, in the crowd who on cue would get all hysterical about the presentation and appear buy 6 bottles. Cha-ching...the oil flowed.

    But then again, some celebrity going on about how great some gadget or pill is isn't so different; just playing on your goofy, unquestioning trust.

    Trust is the ultimate sales API, and goes straight to the brain stem. Your instincts are used against you and...cha-ching...everywhere the sound of money.

"Here's something to think about: How come you never see a headline like `Psychic Wins Lottery.'" -- Comedian Jay Leno

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