DVI Flat Panels? 95
David_Bloom asks: "I've been shopping for flat panels, and have found it very hard to find a good deal on an LCD with DVI. My best bet so far is probably the NEC MultiSync 1550XBK (I've heard good things about its picture quality, and I'm not a gamer, so update times are irrelevant to me), but I've noticed that for about the same cost (~$600), I could buy a 17" Samsung LCD with that TV and video input thingy, but it only has analog VGA input (no DVI). I really don't want to buy a flat screen without DVI to avoid the phasing problems (its a must for me). Any reccomendations on good, low cost DVI-compatible flat screens? Any idea why monitors with DVI support are more (it's digital, so in theory, it should cost less, because there's no need for a analog to digital conversion)?"
It's just my personal preference (Score:1, Informative)
First I head to http://www.viewsonic.com
Then
I head to http://www.buy.com
free shipping!
Re:It's just my personal preference (Score:2)
Check THG (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Check THG (Score:1)
Anyway, I did some research, and in the US NewtronUSA.com supplies the model Pro Lite 4315UT -- which is a 17" with DVI, for about $650. Not bad.
I don't know if the quality is as great as the one Tom's Hardware reviewed, but its a decent price from a quality manufacturer.
It seems that most manufacturers make DVI versions, they're just rarer, and since they're in less demand, get reviewed less and less.
Re:Check THG (Score:1)
I think you mean Iiyama [iiyama.co.jp]...
Re:Check THG (Score:3, Interesting)
I just bought three Viewsonic VG171b's.
Analog and DVI input. Black Case. both inputs can be connected and switched between using a front panel button. Crystal clear output. 1280x1024 resolution. The price? $5867 each. Not bad if you ask me.
-sirket
Re:Check THG (Score:3, Funny)
Did you get the "Pentagon Toilet Seat" "Discount"?
Re:Check THG (Score:2)
-sirket
Why expensive? (Score:4, Interesting)
2 reasons:
1) Market dynamics. They sell far more VGA analog models (since there are so many people with VGA and so few with DVI) and so the economics make it much less expensive to manufacture and market those models. If they sold more DVI monitors, they would be cheaper (like the current trends for HDTVs).
2) Most people with DVI outputs are gamer and/or designer types who have spent alot more on video cards than the average user (who often spends nothing to get a VGA output since most motherboards have built-in video). They feel that if you're willing to pay for a DVI capable 3D accelerator, you would be willing to pay more to hook it up.
Re:Why expensive? (Score:2)
Of course, "non-integrated" is probably the operative word; the e-machine that joe six-pack owns won't have DVI so the flat-screen he buys also won't need it...
Re:Why expensive? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Why expensive? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Why expensive? (Score:1)
Yes, we got it.
No, just fairly obscure :)
Re:Why expensive? (Score:4, Funny)
- No, just fairly obscure
There's a difference between subtlety and just being obscure, but it's quite a subtle difference that can easily be obscured.
Re:Why expensive? (Score:2)
No, just not very funny...
I'm not sure if DVI outputs are that rare anymore (Score:2)
Minotr Phasing Probrlems and update rates. (Score:2)
How can you not care about update times and only worry about phasing problems? your screwing yourself if you dont get a monitor that does well on both ends.
Re:Minotr Phasing Probrlems and update rates. (Score:2)
samsung (Score:1)
Remove Analogue Digital Converter, pay $250 extra (Score:2)
I totally agree. I understand all about market value and supply and demand but isn't it outrageous to pay 250.- just for the manufacturer to take out the expensive AD converter and replace it with a cheap digital plug? I mean, appart from that, some relatively simple chips and a lot of patents, there isn't a real difference, right?
--
Money is the root of all evil (Send $30 for more info)
Re:Remove Analogue Digital Converter, pay $250 ext (Score:1, Insightful)
What expensive? Mass produced consumer junk!
"replace it with a cheap digital plug"
Hello? Are you an idiot? Thought so! The DVI connectors are expensive, and the cables needed are more expensive than the three coax analog job. The differential transmit/receivers needed at both ends are also expensive.
To be an idiot like you, you'd have to be in your fourth year in EE at university? Am I close?
Re:Remove Analogue Digital Converter, pay $250 ext (Score:2)
Re:Remove Analogue Digital Converter, pay $250 ext (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Remove Analogue Digital Converter, pay $250 ext (Score:1)
harddriveoutlet.com (Score:4, Informative)
Disclaimer: I'm not in any way connected with harddriveoutlet, and I'm also going to say anything more than "sorry" if you buy one and it breaks...
Re:harddriveoutlet.com (Score:1)
Re:harddriveoutlet.com (Score:2)
Re:harddriveoutlet.com (Score:1)
Flawed Logic (Score:2)
It is often a higher quality signal, and a more reliable and logical interconnect. Thus, they charge more.
And that ADC chip that converts from VGA to digital LCD-ready signals probably costs them about $0.75.
I was in the same boat... (Score:4, Informative)
I was very happy with my Apple 17" Studio Display [apple.com] (although I did have one pixel get stuck last month) and was looking for a 15" LCD to work as my second monitor. I have a Radeon 7000 working as a second video card, so it supported DVI and VGA.
I searched forever for a reasonably priced 15" LCD that supported DVI. They were simply not to be found. I ended up going with the NEC 1550V [necmitsubishi.com] LCD that only supports VGA. Getting a similar monitor with DVI (the NEC 1550X [necmitsubishi.com], for example) was going to run me at least $100-$150 more.
In a side-by-side comparison, the Apple monitor is much nicer. I am not sure if that is attributable to the ADC connection (Apple's all-digital connector) or just the quality of the Apple monitor (it is frequently ranked as one of the better 17" LCDs).
My only guess as to the mark-up of DVI monitors is demand (lack of it, and then where the demand is coming from).
Most of my reading/research also indicated that, at least for now, there is a little to be gained from a DVI connection. When LCDs get even better, though, LCDs will be better able to take advantage of the all-digital connection.
Re:I was in the same boat... (Score:2)
xterm -fn fixed
THEN see if you still feel the same way..
check the right places (Score:2)
i bought a 17" dell 1702fp (samsung/dvi+analog) for $500 with no tax and free shipping about a year ago
recently the dell 2000fp (1600x1200 native 20" dvi/analog/svideo lcd), highly reviewed here [cadalyst.com], was going for $800 including shipping [fatwallet.com].
Re:check the right places (Score:2)
fwiw.
Re:check the right places (Score:3, Informative)
You're absolutely right. I'm looking at this on one of the Dell FP-2000s running off a VGA connection at 1600x1200 -- didn't even bother with DVI due to the max resolution. Even with a VGA connection though, it looks great. Like I said in another comment, I haven't tried it with anything graphics intensive like games, but for general office usage like code and document editing, I think it's the greatest thing since Roomba (forget the fact that the FP-2000 came first).
-"Zow"
Re:either you're an idiot (Score:2)
Thanks!
(For those who don't know, the dell support forums are full of problem reports trying to get this think to work at 1600x1200 with DVI connections)
Re:either you're an idiot (Score:1)
The information you are interested in: I am running a 2000FP via DVI from a Radeon 8500 64MB (regular version, not LE) at 1600x1200x32bitx60Hz in both Windows 2000 Professional and Red Hat 8.0 (with both original release and recently updated kernels) dual booted. The only thing I had to install was the Radon 8500 Catalyst 2.5 drivers (version 6.10.13.6813 obtained from ATI Web site, just the drivers not the ATI control panel) for Windows. The default Red Hat 8.0 X11 works at this resolution straight out of the install. I am using the DVI cable that came with the monitor.
Re:either you're an idiot (Score:2)
I guess the danger of browsing the dell support forums is that you see an overwhelmingly negative view of their products. Very few people go there if their hardware works, so there aren't many success reports (I don't remember seeing any for Linux).
Thanks a lot!
Re:either you're an idiot (Score:2)
Okay, way to make friends and influence people. So maybe I'm wrong -- that doesn't make me an idiot. And for the record, my video card doesn't support it: I didn't even bother to get a video card with DVI on it as I read that 1600x1200 over DVI was "unsupported", which I took to mean "it don't work". Since you say it does, I'll have to see if I can get this card upgraded.
-"Zow"
Re:check the right places (Score:2)
I AM running a Radeon 8500 however - at the time I bought the card I couldn't find an Nvidia that supported DVI past 1280x1024. Maybe that is causing problems?
Re:check the right places (Score:1)
At the time, the only Nvidia cards that supported DVI @ 1600x1200 were the Ti500 variants. I wasn't too fond of shelling out $350 for a fscking video card after dropping $1400 on the LCD.
Re:check the right places (Score:2)
AC's: a simple 'yes, things have changed' is all you needed to say. calling people an idiot isn't helpful; this is about information exchange and not ego stroking (sigh..)
the single link dvi standard is still 1280x1024. and many/most dvi monitors UNLESS THEY SAY OTHERWISE will still only support 1280x1024 via the commonly-found version of dvi.
here's a link to some pics of single and dual link dvi connectors:
pictures [216.239.53.100]
it still appears that unless you have a fairly new dvi card, single-link will STILL only resolve to 1280x1024.
that dualhead matrox card I referred to (g550) is dual head but single-link per each head.
Re:check the right places (Score:2)
if you wish to provide info, please do.
else, flames to
Re:check the right places (Score:2)
really.
Re:check the right places (Score:2)
Re:check the right places (Score:2)
TomsHardware is aware of the dual-link shenanogan (it's one row down from the maximum resolution row :D).
And, quoting you...
coughcoughKARMAWHORE^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HcoughcougRe:check the right places (Score:2)
make that two rows up...my mistake
Re:check the right places (Score:2)
Re:check the right places (Score:2)
Yeap. Tweaktown had a coupon 2 weeks back. I managed to snag one for just shy of $800.
It's a beautifull monitor. 1600x1200 *will* change the way you work.
Still can't get the darn GeForce 3 to recognize the DVI output though. Argh.
Spend the extra $$$$ (Score:4, Interesting)
I have at home an 18" Sun LCD and a 22" Apple Cinema Display. At work I have a 24" Sun LCD.
I'd take the Apple Cinema Display over the other two any day. Both Sun LCD's have both a VGA and DVI input (the 24" has c-video and s-video as well), but the Apple only has a single ADC (Apple display connector). The apple screen is the sharpest of the three.
Not to say the Sun 24" is bad, but the Apple one is just that little bit crisper. The 18" Sun LCD is crap -- the colors are all wrong, and it looks _awful_ on analog.
--NBVB
Re: (Score:2)
Re:ADC to DVI converter? (Score:2)
Re:ADC to DVI converter? (Score:1)
DVI on a KVM Switch? (Score:2)
Are there any KVM switch solutions that incorperate DVI natively?
The only thing that put me off on getting a flat screen (Outside of price) is trying to KVM a Dell Inspiron 8100 [dell.com] portable (VGA only
Re:DVI on a KVM Switch? (Score:2)
I haven't seen any, but I don't think it'll do you any good b/c I doubt any KVM switch manufacturer is going to convert that VGA signal to DVI, at least for less than it would cost to buy a new laptop with DVI built in (if such a thing exists). Additionally, once your laptop has converted the signal to VGA, the damage (to the signal) has already been done, so you're not really gaining anything.
One solution is to get a LCD that accepts both VGA and DVI and allows you to switch between them, then just use a KVM for the keyboard & mouse. I did something similar years ago to use my 21" monitor (with a HD15 cable & RGB in) with both a PC and a mac with a D-15 connector. It was kind of clunky, but it worked.
The other solution is just to accept the VGA signal. I'm using one of the Dell 20" FPs right here at 1600x1200 on a VGA signal and it looks great. Of course, this is at work, so I don't know how good it is for games and the like, but for code/document editing, it can't be beat.
-"Zow"
Re:DVI on a KVM Switch? (Score:2, Informative)
Apple PowerBook [apple.com]
Re:DVI on a KVM Switch? (Score:1)
Re:DVI on a KVM Switch? (Score:1)
Yes, there do seem to be, as Google would tell you. The prices I'm seeing are something like ten times what I paid for my Trendnet two-computer switch though. On top of that, they're not terribly common at all
Re:DVI on a KVM Switch? (Score:2)
Either that, or it would have both VGA and DVI cables to plug into the flat panel, and it would output the signal through the appropriate cable.
Re:DVI on a KVM Switch? (Score:2)
sharp 16" black lcd from dell (Score:2)
use the matrox g550 dual-dvi (important to ask the vendor if its REALLY dual dvi and not just dual video). then a special dual dvi cable and you're all set.
the cable is about $50 and the agp matrox card is about $150.
the lcd's are $529. a steal, really. and dell was offering free ground shipping when I got mine.
the model # for the sharp is LL-T1620-H/B.
note that its NOT a dell-branded display but really a Sharp brand with a black bezel. Dell Part# A0030174
You are totally right - mod parent up (Score:1)
The picture quality is nothing short of amazing.
Re:sharp 16" black lcd from dell (Score:2)
Amazing for a 16" 1280x1024. monitor. Sharp also just released a 20" model [sharpsystems.com]. Supports 1600x1200 with _dual_ DVI -- no analog without (included) adapter.
Sure, there are cheaper monitors, but these Sharp LCD's are quite amazing. Too bad they are so hard to find.
The NEC 1550X Is An Excellent Choice (Score:1)
I bought this monitor myself, because it had the two features that I really wanted, which were analog (VGA) and digital (DVI) inputs as well as a pivotable display.
It took me a few weeks to make up my mind on this purchase. I usually shop on price, and this is one expensive monitor: It cost me 740 Canadian dollars while other 15" LCDs without these two features could be had for about 400 dollars.
But you know what? Given the choice, I'd buy the same monitor again. The NEC 1550X is a well-built, top-quality monitor, and is an absolute pleasure to use.
If you stare at your monitor for a few hours a day, then get this monitor. You won't regret it.
Re:The NEC 1550X Is An Excellent Choice (Score:2)
I must have the magic sense - I picked out the monitor, then, by sheer coincidence, found out it's #1 on PC-WORLD's chart.
I'm just that good :-).
hp l1520 & l1720 (Score:2)
my best deal: Sams Club (Score:2)
If you're looking for the best, (Score:2)
It got such high accolades due to "two new technologies that can measurably improve image quality: 10-bit gamma correction and Zero Voltage Black."
10-bit gamma correction improves over the trditional 8-bit gamma correction, and provides much better colour gradients. As for Zero Voltage Black, it helps with the broken pixels that will of course be present in any LCD. To sum it up, instead of a broken pixel simply shining all the time, broken pixels don't shine at all. To quote MPC, "The upshot is that broken subpixels on Sharp's new displays are relatively unobtrusive. Because they don't beam glaring backlight, they appear as subtle, muted flecks that blend in with the pixels of whatever's being rendered onscreen.".
The review is a bit old, and the price premium is high at 1300$ US. However, in august this display beat out all other comers.
Compaq FP700 (Score:2)
The only drawbacks to it for me are the crappy monitor stand that is integrated, and the fact that it only does 1024x768 (I have some software that will not even run in less than 1280x1024).
The reason I picked this monitor is that it was DVI and it was dirt cheap. I paid $149 for it. They go for between $150 and $200 on ebay.
Good luck!
Dual DVI on a budget (Score:1)
I wanted two DVI monitors, great 3D support in Windows and Linux, and I wanted to do it on the cheap. My solution:
Find two Apple Studio M7613 displays on the used market, or on eBay. You can find them for well under $200 these days. The quality is great, an the two specimens I found had no dead pixels or other defects. They are made very solidly. Manual Here. [apple.com]
Next, find a Gainward Dual DVI Nvidia 4600 card. Product Info Here. [gainwardusa.com] The Gainward card is the only "cheap" video card that supports two DVI monitors under Windows and Linux AND has good 3D performance if you require that.
My combo of two used monitors and the card should go for under $700 these days with some careful shopping. I'll wait until larger DVI panels are under $250 to think about upgrading.
For the same reason... (Score:2)
Because it's specialzed equipment at that point that fewer people buy (since not everyone has DVI, but everyone [excepting the occasional Mac user, and specialised PC user] has VGA). Becuase fewer people buy it, prices are higher, ergo, it costs more to have fewer features. Stupid, but true.
Fewer features = more money (Score:2)
Yes, we see it everywhere.
Planar. (Score:2)
It's bright, fast, and compared with the others at the time I bought it (December of last year) was a steal at around $700. Any of the other brands with similar feature sets were priced at more like $1000.
A few things most people don't know about DVI (Score:1)
Yes, it stays digital, but not necessarily in the same format. Cheap older LCD's use TTL, current cheap LCD's use LVDS, and the more expensive ones use RSDS. Most of these different signal formats require different scalar chips to interpolate the image to fill the screen, how much each scalar chips costs is up to the manufacturer. Some use discrete converters to convert the format. So there are differences in being a digital signal. RS232 is serial, so is USB, but you're can't plug one into the other w/o some sort of adaptor, it's the same way w/ digital signals for the panels. Of course, "digital is better" so the market will pay more for it.
Not really sure about what you're referring to as update times. All LCD flat panels refresh at 60 Hz regardless of how fast you set your refresh rates to. There may be differences in the latency between the video card drawing the image and the screen displaying the image, this usually shouldn't trail by more than a frame, but usually on the order of milliseconds.
Re:A few things most people don't know about DVI (Score:1)
Digital IS better when it comes to LCD. If you run at the proper resolution, you have exact subpixel control of the display... which is the entire reason for using DVI. If you don't want that, high quality VGA conversion is fine.
I assure you that an LCD with DVI is not scaling anything when run at the proper resolution.
Re:A few things most people don't know about DVI (Score:3, Informative)
Sorry I don't have time to dig you a link.
On VGA conversion (Score:1)
having just bought someone a 17" Viewsonic LCD, with VGA only... I was extremely amazed at how well the picture looked. Absolutely no phasing.. it LOOKS like a digital connection. It really does. Even cleartype has the desired effect... which might suggest the vga conversion circuitry is doing some really fancy stuff.
It really does look razor sharp though... not like the older lcds I've used.
Sony 18" DVI LCD (Score:1)
Sony SDM-X82 (Score:2)