How Close is the Open Entertainment Center? 332
why-not-now asks: "Recently there's been a lot of talk about open source/free software that enables your PC to act as a DVR, all-purpose media player, DVD player, CD player, MP3 player, etc... not to mention the ability to play all sorts of video games (if you know where to look). The idea of the set top MAME console is nice, but with a little TV/Audio out, a little know how and the right software, are we currently able to put together a free version of the big convergence media center others are trying to do?"
Well with the recent SCOTUS decision (Score:3, Interesting)
Hopefully... (Score:1, Interesting)
Plus if you think they'll let you do this properly without screwing you up with DRM technologies, you're a dreamer (not that that's a bad thing, but in this case it's really unrealistic). I wouldn't be surprised if the TV networks got their way and ended up having DRM chips on TV receiver cards... Of course, they'd be cracked within the week
Daniel
All sorts of video games (Score:3, Interesting)
Just because you can emulate arcade roms, snes roms and psx discs, doesn't mean it's legal to do so, or that they're somehow 'open'. Spyro the dragon and Mortal Kombat are not Open Source.
And to answer your question, you can do all that now. All you need is a machine with enough power and TV outs, or a VGA scan converter, and a lot of free time to set it all up and make it work adequately.
Or are you asking 'how long until someone sets up an easy to use linux interface for all of these softwares?' You can answer that by looking at how long it took to set up an easy to use linux interface at all.
If Macs were free, you'd be set (Score:3, Interesting)
And emulation capability [emulation.net] out the wazoo too.
Now if what you're asking for is a PC that acts like a Mac; just wait 5-10 years and they ought to be up to the standards of today's PowerBook. ;-P
Alternatives (Score:3, Interesting)
1) Print a few more copies of your resume out and send them to companies. You've been out of work long enough and any minute the bill collectors are going to throw you and your family in jail.
2) Plant a tree. Picket outside fur factories and SUV dealerships. Teach a neighborhood child how to play the piano. Read to your kid. Make love to your wife.
3) Abandon all the worrying about conforming your life to the absurd paradigns and social revolutions inspired by lunatics like Richard M. Stallman, who was pink-slipped by the MIT Media Lab after years of little to no productive work.
always behind (Score:3, Interesting)
The entertainment industry will almost by deffinition be ahead of the open source entertainment subculture.
Honestly, would you rather play some mame roms rather than the Clone Wars on a brand new GameCube? The open source hardware is just not there and the software will always be lagging.
this isn't a troll. I honestly think that the commercial stuff will eternaly have the advantage of easy configuration, compatibility with current media and ease of use.
copyprotection and merchandising ... (Score:5, Interesting)
A VCR I purchased a few years back when dead on me a month or so ago. When I opened it up to see what the problem was, I was confronted with cheap plastic gears -- apparently made to wear out over time. And so it goes.
So until there is more money in creating all-in-one computers that are home entertainment systems that are washing machines and toasters, we're going to continually get knickle-n-dimed to death -- or at least until I break down and buy a HD TV flat panel display.
Sure thing! (Score:1, Interesting)
Of course, I'm not sure many will be taking the do-it-yourself assembly route. The masses always like their boxes to come fully assembled and requiring just one plug. I mean, Microsoft has their goliath coming to the States and I've heard about the Moxi Media Center (story here [bbc.co.uk]) which debuted at CES. Basically the Moxi Media Center is the all-in-one entertainment center that you're talking about in this article. Of course, it's no fun to let the corporations put it together for you because they'll cut corners and tie you into subscription based payments somehow. Oh well, I guess I'll continue dreaming.
Thanks for a great article! I enjoyed reading other people's thoughts about it.
This is EXACTLY what the poster ment... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure, there are a few projects out there that are trying to do this kind of thing. And there are a lot of people who would be interested in this sort of solution, but with responses like:
what you are trying to say is "i want a free PVR-like thingie, can someone make one?"
...these projects will have a difficult time getting off the ground. I don't remember where I read it now, but someone once said...
The biggest problem with Linux is its supporters.
As the stereotype (which has been beautifully microcosmed in this discussion, BTW) is that they are a bunch of socially in adept zealots who have delusions of grandeur. The parent comment put this quite well in a language they would understand (though I'm sure it could have been conveyed in one line of Perl, yes).
So my question is (like) that of the original poster... when will someone with computer knowledge (that is not necessarily a *nix guru, though not a moron either) be able to follow some instructions on a site (buy this encoder board, install that DVD recorder) and setup a Digital Media Player that will cover the popular requests like MAME, DVD Video, MP3 (and OGG, and...), Slideshow (Image Display), etc?
Happy with my system (Score:4, Interesting)
Hardware:
- Moderately fast CPU and MB, plenty of RAM
- ATI Radeon 7000 (Composite/SVideo out) going to video in on TV
- Audio out to reciever
- Wireless KBD and mouse
- SNES Joypads wired to parallel port
Software:- MPlayer for DVD
- Snes9x for games
- Two X configs: One for TV, one for Monitor.
Not as user friendly as I would have hoped for the wife and kids, they still have the tendency to use an actual DVD and SNES console for games instead of the copies on the computer, but I think the experiment for me was at least successful. My current plan is to make it user friendly enough that I can put the DVD and SNES in my daughters room.XBOX (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Xbox (Score:4, Interesting)
I have heard people putting in large hard drives into their X-Box to do this sort of thing and to store all their X-Box games on it. No more carrying around the original games. Supposedly the X-Box binary newsgroup is #4 in terms of number of message headers. I heard its also possible to simply rent games then rip them to an X-Box hard drive.
Most of this is illegal though so I am not advocating it. I can see why Microsoft is upset about Mod chips. BTW, I don't do this because:
1) I don't own an X-Box.
2) Even if I did I wouldn't play game on it because I prefer PC games.
However, I really like the idea of using it as a media server for my LEGALLY owned mp3's, DivX's (home movies), family photos (slideshows), and DVD's.
Re:Very Close (Score:5, Interesting)
Here, lemme hit any potential PVR software author what me, and millions of other people who don't ever want to see a shell prompt on their PVR want.
1. Make an ISO
Nobody wants to download this from here, that from there, tar xfzv make compile and pray you have all the correct dependancies. I just want to download a ISO image, burn it, boot it and it works.
2. Slick interface
Myth's interface is a good start but could be better. I would suggest reading the OSX interface guidlines at apple, there's a ton of usefull info on how to make an intuative gui there.
3. Bells and whistles
Since %99 of the world is windows (myself included) I want to be able to configure a samba share so I can access what I record on another PC. Same goes for netatalk and the apples.
Also add in support for things like alphanumeric LCD's in case someone wants to add a LCD to the front of this thing.
Point i'm trying to make though is the majority of people that want to use this won't have the time or patience to do a bunch of side tasks to complete their main task, which is building a PVR.
Still a Tough Project (Score:2, Interesting)
HDTV tuner
PVR
Progressive-scan DVD player
Music Server
I'm still a ways away from purchasing an HDTV-capable TV, and am taking the time to educate myself along the way. An affordable (less than $1k) home-built entertainment appliance like I've described that doesn't require a keyboard for light operation is probably a ways away.
Re:Hopefully... (Score:5, Interesting)
I would contest this comment. I have a TV with a VGA in on it and before I moved I had a computer hooked up to it as a capture box. Not only would it capture TV shows, but stuff I got from other places (DVD rips or shows traded on P2P) could be played on it. I know from experience what this is like and would like to clarify some of the negative comments you made.
"Who needs a set-top box that crashes..."
I ran Win2k on this box. It had an uptime of around 2-3 months before needing a reboot. My VCR can't even go that long without ending up losing it's time and flashing 12:00. With Linux, it'd likely be even better. I'm not entirely sure about that though, I'm fairly certain that Windows wasn't the problem. I'm pretty sure it was a driver issue.
"...or a computer that slows down because it's recording today's episode of Friends?"
That's a semi valid point. If I watched something while the machine was recording, it'd do niether well. The capture would get lagged and the playback would be choppy. Though this was a 400mhz machine, it wouldn't have mattered how fast the machine was. A dual processor solution would have been neceassary. I doubt that a dual processor 500mhz machine would be very expensive today. If the recorder was prioirtized on the second processor and everything else done on the first, it'd be quite fine. On a single processor machine, it's still not that big of deal. If I wanted to watch a show while the machine was recording, I'd just hit it from the network and play the show it had already captured. It didn't cause a noticable drain on the recording. The streams were only 400kbits or so. I can honestly say I've never been bitten in the ass by what you described.
I never played games on this machine (though I know for a fact it'd do just fine with them, it used to be on my desk...) but I did do infrequent websurfing and email checking with it. Despite the low-res NTSC screen, it still more or less worked.
The plus side of this setup was I had a media server to store everything on. Whenver I went out of town I'd just dump a few shows I was interested in watching to my laptop, then I'd have some stuff to watch. Also, while I'm browsing, sometimes I watch a show in a small window. (That's how I kept up on That 70's Show, heh) Being able to click back a few seconds because I didn't catch what got the audience laughing was worthwhile.
Watching videos this way got addictive. Sometimes during commercials I get bored and go check my email or something. Unfortunately, when my attention gets grabbed I tend to miss the rest of the show. That sucks when you're watching something like 24.
All in all, it was a damn nice experience. The biggest problem with my system was the lack of a remote. Oh well. Eventually I'll get it set back up again.
The right tool for the job. (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't trust anyone who wants to turn a PC into a "media center." The convergence devices that Microsoft and others envision are designed for PASSIVE entertainment. Don't stand up and say anything, just sit there on the couch and watch. An internet-connected PC is designed for ACTIVE entertainment. It encourages you to participate, to communicate, to share your knowledge and ideas and creations with the world. Linux was not created by some schmo on the sofa with a clicker in his hand.
This is not to say that passive entertainment is a bad thing, mind you. What I'm saying is that a general-purpose computer is not the right tool for this job. Ultimately, we're better off having a PC for one set of tasks and a TiVo, DVD Player and PS2 for another. If people really wanted full-fledged PCs in their living rooms, the guys who created WebTV would be billionaires right now.
PVR functionality limited on PCs? (Score:5, Interesting)
Over the past few months I've been looking into this. I really want a PVR, but can't buy one off-the-shelf (no service available in .nl).
One of the things I noticed is that it doesn't seem possible to put more than one capture card into a PC. At least I've seen reports that say Windows can only handle on capture card. If this is true, it would be a shame. I currently have two VCRs. If I buy a PVR, I'd like to improve on current functionality and be able to record two programs while watching (with PVR functions like 'pause live TV' available) a third.
Now, I haven't been able to absolutely confirm this. Does anyone here know, and is the situation different when you use Linux?
And how adaptable are current open-PVR efforts? Is it possible for a non-programmer (at least, nothing beyond a few simple Applescripts) to e.g. get the software to recognize guide data from a different website than originally intended? Most software PVRs seem linked pretty much to a single guide data provider.
We're not as far away as you might thing.... (Score:3, Interesting)
TuxBox (Score:2, Interesting)
You need a "standard" (Score:3, Interesting)
1. But I do mean a CD-distro a la Knoppix that you can pop in your PVR-machine and have it work, and that'll be the "standard". Not running on top of ten different distros. There are a lot of good reasons for having ten different distros, but not on a task-spesific device where you'll ideally want to stay in media-center programs 100% of the time.
2. Absolutely no messing with a computer first, setting up anything, or running any kind of command utility. At the very most, some kind of hack prompt to choose NTSC/PAL. GUI interface for the rest.
3. With a good "supported hardware" list that could be a lot shorter than Linux's (like: these TV cards autodetect & tested). As little manual configuring as possible, preferably none. Put some work into autodetection if there are working drivers that don't have so.
4. Some "smart" media library. For always-on users, the ability to put in a cd, have it get the names from FreeDB, rip as ogg and store (default setting being "manual", with an "always" checkbox. After all, it could be borrowed or something, and then it's not covered by fair use to copy it... Kinda like Windows never wants to remember I want to use Nero and not Windows to burn CDs.
5. Dunno if it's being done, but run CDs and DVDs at 1x when playing directly (you can dynamically set this can't you?) so they'll be *quiet*. No 52x CD-reader or 16x DVD-reader with a high-pitch annoying whine. Here's definately some of the reason I think you need *one* distro. Keep speed up if you just want to store it for future use though.
6. *After* you have achived that, try to inspire some mobo-producer to integrate the popular components on one mobo, with a custom made sleek case, something like the mini-ITX/mini-ATX cases I see around. One 5 1/4" slot (CD/DVD/CD-burner/DVD-burner), one 3 1/2" slot (HDD). Ethernet, Firewire and USB for wireless keyboad/mouse. Make it low and wide, like a VCR not like a tower. Important: Make a couple fronts, minimum black/silver. Find a spot on the case front to integrate the IR/radio sensor. A "standard" LCD would also be nice, for when you're only playing music. As for processors, I wouldn't try to put a 2-3GHz proc in this one. Music & DVDs need silence. Cool CPU, passive cooling if you can (maybe with a heat changer like the Shuttle XPCs). As this'll be a ways off, probably SATA, like the Barracuda V. Those smaller cables will be important in such a tight case.
But like I said, start with one PVR-distro CD that'll run directly off your TV and I think you've come far. Also, don't forget what that Ethernet connection is there for, SMB or similar for moving files to and from.
Kjella
Kjella
Re:We're not as far away as you might thing.... (Score:1, Interesting)
MythTV does both of these functions.
it will come, but the project team seems to be too small to tackle it in any timely manner
heh.
Don't even need/want THAT much. (Score:3, Interesting)
It blows my mind that after 2 or more years "debating" hardware specs and distributions, no one has bothered to just make something WORK yet. Why do you need a full distribution? Why do you need fancy hardware?
I'm a firm believer that ALL you need is a suitable Window Manager, a hand-me-down PC, and a $30 TV Out card off price-watch.
Why do you need an ISO? There are already a lot of Linux Distro's that have most of the apps you need, just unselect the stuff you don't need.
The Slick Interface is the trick. I don't even think you need a full blown "Window Manager" because you would want to run EVERYTHING full screen anyhow. All you need is something like Acid Launcher hacked to be used full screen, and return to the launcher when your done with that app.
The ONLY bell/whistle you need at all is complete control of your apps and your launcher by using a USB GamePad (Logitech and MicroSoft sell several for about $20-$40).
If you could grab a gamepad, choose a game or play an MPEG by ICON on your TV screen using the gamepad as a pointer, and when exiting the game/movie you come back to the launcher... What else do you need?
The Launcher HAS to be full screen, and easily hackable (text file that you can enter a number of buttons in, with only command line and path to the icon for each button needed).
Once your that far, I don't think it will be that long before people start hacking apps that work well in full screen mode with gamepad control.
TV and DVD how tos (Score:2, Interesting)
TV http://www.linuxlogin.com/linux/ati_tv.php [linuxlogin.com]
DVD/AC3 DTS Sound http://www.linuxlogin.com/linux/emu10k1.php [linuxlogin.com]
I only wish it were that easy (Score:2, Interesting)