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Suggestions for POST Diagnostic Cards? 37

antis0c asks: "I have a number of PC's of mine, and family that have stopped working, or caused other odd unknown failures such as 4 different harddrives, different brands, all becoming physically damaged in the same computer. General fixing is as easy as removing some hardware until the problem goes away, then putting it back until it comes back, thus narrowing down to the single problem hardware. However more tricky problems require a POST Card. I've never purchased one before and I think I could get more use out of older hardware if I did, and I was wondering if the Slashdot community had any suggestions and comments on the various brands out there such as POSTmortem, MSD PostCodeMaster, and PC Engines. Thanks."
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Suggestions for POST Diagnostic Cards?

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  • by BoneMarrow ( 577933 ) on Wednesday January 22, 2003 @08:25PM (#5139836)
    Just go out and buy the 'first POST' card you see.
    Damn, it's just too easy.
  • POST (Score:4, Funny)

    by kruetz ( 642175 ) on Wednesday January 22, 2003 @08:42PM (#5139974) Journal
    Ahh yes, POST cards. Points Out Stuffed Technology. Before they came in card form, it used to be a little midget in your computer (mind you, back then computers filled entire nations, so they were actually giants) and they'd run around saying "Oooh, look at that! It's stuffed!", for which we'd be forever grateful.

    If you can pick up one of these, you'll save yourself tonnes, because POST midgets are cheap, reliable and they feed and clothe themselves. Mind you, when they get bored they start to play with your hardware, so remember to keep a cattle prod close by.

    So which brand to get? Choose one that's polite, friendly, doesn't smell to bad (it can get hot in there, people, and they don't like having cooling fans strapped to their heads) and knows his shit. There's nothing worse than a POST midget who insists that "Houston, we have a problem. The red light is flashing" whenever you read data from the hard disk.
  • by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Wednesday January 22, 2003 @08:59PM (#5140075) Homepage

    The single biggest cause of problems in a computer system that was once stable is bad connections. Just open up the case, pull out all connectors and adapter cards a few millimeters, and push them back. That cleans the contacts.
    • I always thought the cause of problems was supid users doing stupid things.

      If the board is breaking harddrives. I say get a PCI IDE controller and stop using the onboard IDE controller.
    • And the other single biggest cause seems to be either the mysterious jumping hardware virus or capacitor disease.

      The mysterious jumping hardware virus is where you start swapping in known good parts to find the bad one and when you return the known good part to its original home it doesn't work anymore and it cripples something else in its original home and the problem just hops around from machine to machine and doesn't go away until you have disassembled every computer you own or have access to and tried every possible combination of parts until you wind up with everything back in the original configurations, at which point, if you haven't fried anything with static (or re-installed a bios chip backwards) or broken some plastic part of a connector or flexed a wire once too often, everything works again, with you none the wiser as to what caused the original problem.

      Sometimes the mysterious jmping hardware virus jumps species and disables VCRs and other non-computer electronic stuff and they don't start working right again until you've done a bunch of unplugging and replugging of them and gone through everything to get the computers working agian as well.

      Capacitor disease causes slow failures and can result in permanent destruction jumping from part to part and machine to machine.

    • And, if that doesn't take care of it, this [stabilant.com] almost always will. I reccomend type 22A.
      • I understand that Stabilant is a good product; I 've never used it. However, it has the world's worst web site.
        • :-) Agreed. But what can you expect from a company that makes only one thing?

          Not to mention charges as much for it as liquid gold...
          • So, does Stabilant work? You paint the connector contacts and then you have no more trouble with bad contacts? Is there anything I should know about how it is used?
            • Stabilant works well, assuming the part is good and the connector is in half-decent shape.

              Basically, I mostly use it on edge connectors of PCBs (for computer cards). I've found this combination gives the best results:

              - Use a pink rubber eraser and "erase" any of the worst gunk from the connector. If it's really bad, use an abrasive pen eraser.
              - Clean the eraser from the contact with 100% isopropyl alcohol.
              - Dry off the alcohol (or let it evaporate) and apply stabilant somewhat liberally with a q-tip.
              - Leave the stabilant on the card and insert it, and leave it.

              Works like a charm for a lot of things. If I can get some for home I'm going to try it on those worn-out pots in my nice old H/K 430 receiver. ;-)

              It's really expensive though. Something like $1 per ml so it had better be worth your time using it!
  • by ComputerSlicer23 ( 516509 ) on Wednesday January 22, 2003 @09:32PM (#5140291)
    I've done business w/ PC Engines before, nice guys. He has since left the US (last I read the web site he had), so it might be a bit tricker now. They shipped me good equipment (Flash->IDE converter). Because he didn't keep stock of parts, I had to wait a couple of days to get them fabb'ed, but at least I know they weren't RMA's. To be honest, I'm getting ready to pick up a POST card from him.

    That said, I have no idea how well it works, or what the delay is now that he's moved. But I'd vouch for his good guy status, and he's shipped other high quality parts to me.

    The actual part is so deathly simple, it should just read I/O port 80 and put it on an LED, so I can't imagine there is a bunch of difference in quality, but that's just me. Last time I needed one, the hardware engineer in the cubie next to me just hooked up his logic analyzer and 2 minutes later I had the post code.

    Kirby

  • POST Code Master (Score:5, Informative)

    by ez76 ( 322080 ) <slashdot@e76.PARISus minus city> on Wednesday January 22, 2003 @09:55PM (#5140458) Homepage
    I have had good experience with the POST Code Master [postcodemaster.com].

    A nice touch is that the card will monitor voltage rails and test its own LED segments.

    I also had the opportunity to meet the developer of the card - a nice guy.
  • by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 ) on Wednesday January 22, 2003 @09:59PM (#5140485) Journal
    What are you doing with this machine? You're not putting DRM-enabled drives into your Kazaa server are you?
  • "I have a number of PC's of mine, and family that have stopped working,...

    And, how are we related?

    • Typical sign of a disfunctional family...
      However this guy seems to want to do something about it, wonder in which family-member he's going to stuff the POST-card...

  • Grab a spare video card. Then use it just with the MB and CPU. If it doesn't work you know either the CPU or MB are fucked and it's not worth fixing either, go to the second hand store and grab another set.
    • Re:Video Card (Score:3, Informative)

      by tomhudson ( 43916 )
      -- or the power supply, or ram, but I agree, that's pretty much it. Just keep a spare bare-bones box, and swpa parts in/out of it, to see what's bad. Simple, and with all the legacy hardware people are throwing out, you should be able to build one for $0.00 :-)

      Mind you, it's not worth fixing the old stuff anymore - not when whole systems cost less than a game console.

      • not when whole systems cost less than a game console.

        Now I'm curious. What make and model of PC with TV output costs less than $150, the US price of a GameCube console at Wal-Mart or Toys "Ya" Us? And unless Wal-Mart or Best Buy brick-and-mortar stores sell them, include shipping.

  • Do It Yourself (Score:5, Informative)

    by Tux2000 ( 523259 ) <alexander@slashd ... e ['t.f' in gap]> on Thursday January 23, 2003 @08:34AM (#5142246) Homepage Journal

    The famous german c't Magazine [heise.de] has instructions how to build a very simple ISA-based POST card, using only two GALs, a two-digit seven segment LED display, and 15 resistors. You can buy the programmed GALs at eMedia [emedia.de] (order code 9503314PAL, 9,50 EUR, roughly the same in US$). The full article is available online [heise.de] for 0,40 EUR. (If you create a new account, you will get 1,00 EUR to play with. So basically, it is free.)

    I built one POST card myself, and I never leave home without it. ;-)

  • I've got this card, and it's great -- monitors bus voltages, and also has latching LEDs for each IRQ and DMA channel. Has a BIOS extension on it that includes a bunch of diagnostics (including par/ser loopback, drive and RAM exercising, etc.) so you can do quite a bit of testing without (or despite :-) an OS.

    Of course, just a few months after I bought the card the manufacturer dried up and blew away. Now I need a PCI equivalent and haven't seen one out there.
  • heat (Score:3, Informative)

    by (startx) ( 37027 ) <{moc.snoitcudorpnupsnu} {ta} {todhsals}> on Thursday January 23, 2003 @11:22AM (#5143110) Journal
    4 drives in the same machine? damnit man, put a fan on them. Heat causes the early demise of most harddrives. You'd think after the first couple you'd have figured that out...
  • by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 ) on Thursday January 23, 2003 @02:10PM (#5144432) Journal
    Let me get this straight, you want a good POST diagnostic card packed with all the latest features?

    So, what your really looking for are POST cards from the edge [imdb.com]?

    No thanks required. No, really.
  • I bought an Ultra-X P.H.D. board after a trade show and I've been very happy with it. I got it packaged with their Quick Tech diagnostic software and some various plugs and control BIOS chips and they've helped out on a number of very dead systems. The board can find bad RAM (providing there is a working memory controller) and any number of other problems. I picked up the whole kit for under $1000 (show pricing) and I'd say I've got my money's worth out of it. My only regret is that I got the ISA version because at the time I was pretty much guaranteed to have ISA in any machine I was working on, but now with the legacy free machines, I kinda wish I'd gone with the PCI version. You can find them at http://www.uxd.com.
  • POST Cards (Score:3, Informative)

    by cook9540 ( 644245 ) on Thursday January 23, 2003 @08:15PM (#5147204)
    Power ON Self Tests are what the BIOS conduct automatically to check the buss traffic and see if there are any tie ups. Also known as BEEP Codes, they cause the computer to beep the first time it is started up. If the computer has a working speaker you can use this function of the BIOS. It requires that you know who made the BIOS and what their BEEP Codes are. SEEN HERE: http://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm
  • by slaker ( 53818 ) on Thursday January 23, 2003 @11:07PM (#5148251)
    I've done tech work at just about every level, and I've used several POST cards. I honestly haven't found them to be THAT reliable. Sure, it's nice to have confirmation that something is broken, instead of the result of a loose cable or an installation "oops", but I'd far rather have a memory-test card than a post card.
    RAM problems can be a lot more annoying to diagnose IMO, while the times I've used POST cards, I either haven't learned anything from them, or I've gotten conflicting results from repeated uses.
    • You should check out MemTest86 [memtest86.com] if you are having any ram trouble. It detects pretty much EVERY ram problem, including intermittent failures.

      If bad ram is preventing you from booting, well, then it should be pretty obvious which stick is bad.
  • Any with memory? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AxelTorvalds ( 544851 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @11:52AM (#5151076)
    I would love a $65 3v and 5v compatible POST with like 2K of memory on it. Anyone seen something like that?

    You can buy an HP logic analyzer on EBay and program them to do PCI decodes and record POSTs. The deep throats and the new wizbang color models are still very expensive but you can get one that will work for well under a thousand.

    I debugged the Linux kernel boot process on an embedded box with POSTs and an HP logic analzyer. One you get some hardware geek to set it up for you it's a slick way to work on that kind of stuff.

  • I built my own ISA card years ago, all it has to do is decode port 80. It took 2 IC's to decode the address bus, and 2 to drive the LEDs. I haven't been able to find any info on PCI post codes (or much of anything on the PCI bus).

    My latest MB (MSI KT3 Ultra) has a built in post display feature. I like that because it's my first board with no ISA slots.

    Jason
    ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
  • $1000 or so for a good POST card would easily buy you a few new machines. Why bother wasting your time for parts that are so cheap to replace these days. Why do you think nobody does board level work anymore? It costs more money due to time spent than to just replace the thing. Well.. aside from everythign being surface mounted...

The sooner all the animals are extinct, the sooner we'll find their money. - Ed Bluestone

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