Is the BSA "Grace Period" a Scam? 879
An anonymous reader asks: "I work at a small non-profit that has 18 employees plus a 13 seat computer lab. We received a form letter from the Business Software Alliance (BSA) telling us to do a self audit and if we find any unlicensed software to report it during our 'Grace Period' because 'if you organization's software is not licensed, it could become to focus of a BSA investigation'. Now this is obviously a method to scare up some business for the BSA members. If we ignore this, how likely is it that we will be 'investigated'. I know that I cannot produce the original CD's and/or documentation for some of the software that we HAVE paid for."
Recieved the same thing... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not a lawyer, (Score:5, Interesting)
If it's somewhere in a license they can show we bought, that we have to allow access to the installed software, then for every license they can show, I can provide an adequate installation.
Did you register your software recently? (Score:5, Interesting)
They called a 'truce' in our town of 500. We are a 2 employee show, run from a basement.
We bought a bunch of stuff, but never sent in the registration cards. We registered some stuff back in '97-'98 probably, and nothing since. We haven't gone out of business, so they figure we're probably pirating something. We are not, but since we haven't registered anything in a while (Microsoft Tech support is sooo valuable!), and are continually considering the move to Linux (just a matter of time...) we come up in their database as a possible pirate. Oh the miracles of databases!
All we did was make a file of receipts and certificates, and they can wade through it if they come a knockin. We're sure it's all there, and we can hopefully sue if they end up siezing a computer, especially since we are legal.
We had to look real hard for the licenses, but we found them. The certificates are useless without a receipt.
Ignore it, it's more like SPAM that a real letter! (Score:5, Interesting)
The BSA must be getting names from those lousy online surveys (company size, whats your position, how much software will you be buying in 6,12,24 months).
Sounds more like SPAM to me !
BSA (Score:3, Interesting)
I think the only question that went through my head was what if any legal power would the BSA actually have if they did decide to audit me. Seeing as I don't own a company
Re:Ignore it, it's more like SPAM that a real lett (Score:5, Interesting)
We've had this discussion before and... (Score:4, Interesting)
BSA letter may be a legal trap! (Score:2, Interesting)
"What is happening is that through various legal "gotcha's" that are incorporated in the EULA, or in things that are deceptively sent to companies, [the BSA] are getting a company to waive a legal right: the right to privacy.
"They send you a postcard and ask you if you want to know about licensing. If anyone in your company signs it and returns it, it actually gives them authority to come in and audit your company. I don't have direct experience with it, and if you go look into the press on BSA you will find out about this one. They target low-level employees in your company, and it sounds on the postcard like it's a seminar on software licensing. But if someone checks "Yes, I'm interested", then somewhere in the fine print it's actually an invitation to come and audit the software licensing for the company."
http://www.linuxworld.com/2003/0117.barr.html [linuxworld.com]
Maybe not scam, more like racketeering. (Score:5, Interesting)
Nailing them for mail fraud would be nice too, if you can find them deliberately transmitting false statements.
They are scum only out to extort a buck.
The people who were busted... (Score:5, Interesting)
...actually installed illegally pirated software, though. Show me a case where a group with genuinely bought software but a couple of misplaced certificates was successfully sued?
No leg to stand on. (Score:5, Interesting)
You have the same rights you always had. They have to have probable cause to get a warrant, and they have to have a warrant before they can come into your office forcibly. A warrantless vampire cannot come in unless you invite them in.
IANAL, but I believe that as long as you have practiced due diligence and can show that you took reasonable steps to not break the law, then no judge with an actual brain would rule against you.
That being said, the BSA is looking for those who buy one copy and load it all across the office. I know of a company that did that, got ratted on by a disgruntled employee. Bottom line: they paid big. These are the fish they want to fry, and there are plenty of them out there.
Now, if you've been pirating software, and get a letter, and throw it out, and they still come after you, you won't get any sympathy from me!
Huh? Why is everyone having trouble with this? (Score:3, Interesting)
"Grace period" means they won't sue you if you come forward. It doesn't mean they'll let you continue to use pirated software; they just expect you to buy legitimate copies at this point. It's the same thing that the IRS does every few years. If you come forward they won't penalize you for not having filed your tax returns, but that doesn't mean you don't have to pay any back taxes.
Re:Hang on a minute... (Score:3, Interesting)
GNU GPL (Score:2, Interesting)
All the software used on my computer is Open Source. You're very welcome to come audit me, but I dont keep my licenses on hand. You can find my licenses and user agreements online, at nearly any computer software oriented site. Perhaps you are familiar with my software license's, it's called the GNU GPL. Good Day Gentlemen.
Funny thing is, they havent replied yet to that letter...I wonder why?
It works (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe the BSA falls under the jurisdiction of RICO (Score:2, Interesting)
Just doing a quick lookup on racketeering and RICO I came across this definition.
The statute's definition of "racketeering activity" includes "any act or threat involving murder, kidnapping, gambling, arson, robbery, bribery, extortion, dealing in obscene matter, . . . which is chargeable under State law and punishable by imprisonment for more than one year . .
Since the BSA is sending letters threatening an investigation in an attempt to scare you into buying more software, it sounds like extortion.
Maybe you could turn in the BSA (or Microsoft for that matter) and get all their assets siezed!!!
It happened to us (Score:5, Interesting)
Did my company take the letter seriously, yes. My recommendation was to ignore the letter. The higher ups decided to create the tally and show the licenses. Now, at this point they "know" we dont have enough licenses. Its hell trying to find licenses for machines purchased at company buy-outs. So the letter goes back to BSA saying here's what we DONT have.
Sure as s$%t here comes the new letter from BSA saying we are coming after you. It sounds very threatening, like a mugger is breathing down your neck. Well.... then the higher ups look at the bill they owe, they scamble asking friends for licenses, but hell no dont buy them (talking close to $50K). After calling in the favors my company still is not compliant. The decide is at this point, drop it. So we do nothing.
(finally)
Result:
Absolutley nothing after the 2nd letter.
If you respond(like spammers), they have a live one
Re:The people who were busted... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I'm not a lawyer, (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Recieved the same thing... (Score:2, Interesting)
Since you don't have any license agreements, they have nothing to enforce. They have no legal standing if you have nothing to agree to.
Re:How it works (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.bsa.org/usa/press/newsreleases//2003
Stole from them? (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I refuse to play. I will not purchase any software from any company that employs the services of collection agencies such as the BSA. Furthermore, I will do everything in my power to dissuade my clients from purchasing software from these companies.
From someone who lived through a BSA audit (Score:5, Interesting)
So we did an audit and found out that we were only one copy of a certain software title out of compliance. We sent back the results of our audit, along with copies of our licenses to the BSA, along with an offer to buy the extra license at full retail price. They replied that our licenses and audit results were not good enough, that they also wanted us to produce the receipts for the software.
The receipts. Apparently, having the licenses are not good enough. Or maybe the BSA figured they could strongarm some money out of us, so they leaned a little harder. I had heard that before the BSA sends out these demands, they research the company to see if they have enough cash to make their efforts worthwhile. Having recently completed a series of capital funding, I suppose we looked mighty tempting.
This meant many days of going through three years of financial records. Eventually, we found most of our reciepts and purchase orders, except for a few things from the very beginnings of the company when the records weren't really kept. But we did have the licenses. Of course, the BSA, now really smelling blood, came down with an arbitrary amount to fine us along with a statement that if we did not pay this (ridiculous) sum for basically being one copy out of compliance, they would take us to court and demand far more.
I was never told how much exactly we had to pay the BSA, but I heard it was "not insignificant". It was somewhere in the 5-figure range. All for one copy of Visio, and some tossed receipts from three years ago.
I always argued that the BSA had no right to demand our receipts and financial records since we were able to produce the software licenses. It's a bunch of crap. I can't see how the BSA can legally operate in this country. There is another organization that operates in a similar fashion- it's called the Mafia. Bastards.
Re:I'm not a lawyer, (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember one Slashdot poster years ago describing how a clueless auditor had to ask for help because the Windows warez-finding software they were using didn't seem to be running properly. . . on a Sun Ultra 10.
Re:Working in Canada but not Rest of World (Score:2, Interesting)
When I want to become a "member" of an organisation, I have to pay money. I also expect to get a return on investment. That's not to say that non-profit organizations require money ( e.g. Unicef legitimately needs money for administrative fees ). In this case there seems to be a conflict of interest:
1) Software company gives money for "membership" to CAAST or BSA. They can prodly annonce they are a member.
2) The member, in return, gets to reduce software piracy.
But here's the catch:
3) There has to be reciprocity in the exchange. The Non-profit organisation is probably making its "volunteers" serious cash, since I presume, they must get a cut for each software sale made. I don't see how it can all go to administrative fees.
Who would volunteer to help reduce software piracy while devoting a serious amount of personal time w/o compensation - if they're as busy as they claim ( sending letters, having techs scan the network, check licenses, report to vendor....). Show of hands? I don't see any.
Re:Recieved the same thing... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I'm not a lawyer, (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Working in Canada but not Rest of World (Score:3, Interesting)
Or, it can just continue as it has been. The wealthy have always paid for research & development -- once we spend a billion dollars figuring out how to do something, keeping that knowledge from everyone else out of spite is pretty pointless.
Re:One particular experience... (Score:3, Interesting)
Think about it (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Hang on a minute... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure I did. Of course, whether they have any legal basis or not, and if so whether it confers rights on the BSA rather than the software vendor(s), are different questions. The BSA can find out in court, if they really want to know whether I've got any illegal software installed (I haven't) and they're prepared to risk a test case that could destroy their whole threat model (I doubt it).
First, you agreed to the EULA and the BSA can hold it to you. Simply by giving their corporate member a call and asking for the necessary credentials (if they don't have them already). They only have to become a "designated representative of the company" or something like that. The same reason the guy who answers your tech support call has to provide you tech support even though you didn't personally make your agreement with him. (Does this imply that the BSA is on Microsoft's payroll? Yes, of course, read on)
Second, the BSA is using a long-practiced business model. Extortion. They are using the tried and true model of, say for example, the Italian Mob. Here's an example:
Guido: Mr. Chapman, if you don't pay us for protection, there are many criminal elements in this neighborhood who will do serious damage to your business.
Mr. Chapman: I'm sorry, but isn't that what the police are for? I won't pay.
-- later --
Guido: Say Boss, Chapman didn't pay up.
Boss: Send out an enforcement team.
-- later --
Enforcement team thrashes Chapman's business and beats him within an inch of his life.
-- later (in the hospital) --
Guido: What happened, Mr. Chapman? Did you get assaulted by those criminal elements I warned you about?
Mr. Chapman: Yes. I'll pay! I'll pay!
-- end 1 act play --
The BSA have no grounds, really. They are enforcing Intellectual Property law, and they are assessing fines, and searching (and seizing, no doubt) private and public property without a warrant. They are not a law enforcement agency, however. They are a private agency. Their NP status is only to prevent the government from attacking them (and probably helps a lot with taxes and so forth), but I'll bet many of their employees receive paychecks from more than one company. In any case, they exist to enforce EULAs that were not made into law in the first place. Effectively, they threaten to bring the law against you. Kinda like "Hey bro, if you don't give me $20, I'll tell the cops you sell dope, and that'll cost you a lot more."
The BSA is a group of vigilante lawmakers and enforcers, and even though they're not a government agency they must be stopped! THEY are the Lex Luthors and <insert favorite super-villain here>s of the present, and they *must* be destroyed.
Stand up to them. Tell them to fuck off. Instead of doing an audit, spend your money implementing free solutions. Don't worry about price of implementation, or function, or anything like that. Enact the FIRST RULE OF BUSINESS, and COVER YOUR ASS. Destroy all copies of any proprietary software within your organization and install nothing but free software. Then tell them they can't audit you because you canceled your end of the agreement.
When they assess a fine, tell them "I won't pay it. You're not a judge appointed by a duly elected representative, and I sure in the fuck didn't vote for you or any politician that created you." When they drag you into court, you COUNTERSUE them, and charge them with extortion! (if you can, extortion might be rigidly defined as threatening physical harm, but i'm not a lawyer)
When the BSA knocks on your door, you have a perfect opportunity to fight for your freedom, and it's not only a fight that means something, it's also a fight worth winning.
Re:Recieved the same thing... (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyways, I put this up on my site [kb9mci.net]. Go have a look at Asok talking about his new invention that makes all copyrighted material available for free. It's sad.
Bill of Rights (Score:3, Interesting)
You haven't agreed to a single legally binding thing. In no way does signing (let alone just reading and clicking OK) ANY sheet of paper (outside of a confession of treason) cause you to give up any of your legal rights. Such a contract is completely unenforceable and would be thrown out the second it enters court.
They can put in a clause to allow agents to crash at my house on the weekends and eat my dorritos but it doesn't mean it's in any way enforceable. Talk to an attorney. No matter how hard you try you can't sign your rights away. When it comes down to it most EULA's are slightly more valuable than toilet paper due to this fact. Hell, check your state laws. Many states have clauses in their local civil or criminal codes that basically say something to the effect that "contracts that are partially in violation of any participants rights are wholely illegal"
Do your research. Especially when it comes to your local right to privacy and to unsolicited mailings, phone calls, etc. Has it occured to anyone that "shotgun" tactics might in fact be considered SPAM. Let's get some anti-spam lawyers after their ass. Under my own state and city laws, unless I decide to bend over and say "oh yes please come in and dont' use lube" they can piss and moan all they want and that's about the limit to their "legal" recourse.
Here's how I saw it happen... (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, here's what happened:
We are about 1,800 employees big. We go the BSA letters about a year ago. Our legal people consulted with outside legal specialists regarding this. The result was that we caught up on licensing real fast, and we produced documentation to the BSA that proved we were legal and that was the end of the legal hassle. Of course this took about 9 months :-)
Several comments:
1) We were big enough to atract attention, and we are profitable, so we were the perfect "target."
2) No one in our company considers this a "scam." We willingly decided on our own to use commercial software and we intended to pay for it (honestly!). We did find inaccuracies on our purchasing: We had too much of some stuff, too little of other stuff. We purchased what we needed to.
3) In response to some dumb comments on here: The BSA deals with the software of its vendor members, not ALL software vendors. We were sent a list of the software producers whose products were in question.
4) Some people here have said that EULAs are invalid: Bullshit. There have been court decisions going BOTH ways, but the more recent antecedents have all been in favor of EULA validity. It can't get much clearer: If you agree to the EULA terms, you are bound by them.
5) The old "prove it" reprise: Someone here said to just ask the BSA to prove that you stole software. This is inaccurate/misleading. If you say to the BSA "prove it," then the BSA IMMEDIATELY will subpoena your receipts for your purchases (Which, they will successfully argue in court, they need to "prove it"). They CAN do this, and they DO do this. If you get to be too much of an asshole about this, they can get the court marshal to seize your computers. It has happened before...
6) There are federal statutory guidelines that indicate collectible damages. If you are an asshole to the BSA (or a software producer), they can be assholes back: I believe it was Snapple that got fined a couple million bucks because they were assholes to the BSA... Technically it is a copyright violation every time you load an unlicensed program into RAM (every time you run it). Normally this would fall under the "reasonable uses" clause thing, but since the copyright is being violated, there is no "reasonable use" to it... Therefore every time you run the program you incurr the federally-mandated minimum fine... In case you feel like bitching about this, you should know this case went to court, and was not settled out of court, as far as I know it was not successfully appealed either.
7) Does the BSA have the right to send these letters? OF COURSE! What are you going to say, "No! I want to hear these threats from Adobe!" Just get it over with... It's easier to deal with one entity, you will get it over with quicker. Ovbiously, the BSA members give the BSA authority to sue on their behalf! The EULA has nothing to do with this.
8) Lastly: If you use commercial software, it is understood by definition that you must pay for it. What the hell is the problem with that? No one held a gun to your head to force you to use AutoCAD!
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe we need to handle this like a business (Score:2, Interesting)
IANAL, but something down the line that we reserve the right to make backup copies, reverse the code if necessary to obtain interoperability with our system, and any fees or charges due us if their software fails to perform as advertised.
Then, if they pull that EULA "agree" button crap, we can just pull our our purchase requisiton, which they accepted by shipping product and accepting payment.
Re:Recieved the same thing... (Score:5, Interesting)
And I admit that there was one whiner on the staff who absolutely insisted on having MSOffice so instead of buying ten licenses, they only ended up buying one and the rest of the staff was quite happy as long as they still had their e-mail and could get on the web. The BSA is the best thing that ever happened to Linux.
Re:Recieved the same thing... (Score:5, Interesting)
I signed up for a free subscription to a magazine that focuses exclusively on "open" source advocacy and products. Part of the questionare was if I owned a buisness. I did, enough to say so on the response card. I put a name on there somewhat arbitrarily. I chuckled when I saw that same name on the BSA letter.
I still operate as a self-employed consultant, so I never needed to file for a liscence under that name.
-------------------
OnRoad [onlawn.net]: Reporting what happens in America when police get out of hand.
Re:Stole from them? (Score:5, Interesting)
The comparisons to the IRS are pretty apt, though. What generally happens is that the BSA gets a tip from some disgruntled employee/ex-employee that company X is using pirated software. The BSA picks a few of those companies at random (or maybe they have some criteria) and takes 'em to court. Unfortunately, the onus is on Company X to prove that they have licenses for all the software they're using. If they can't, they have to pay for the software and generally get whacked with "punitive damages" as well.
The BSA uses those cases to threaten everyone else into doing those bogus "self-audits" and sending hush money to the BSA.
I don't mind paying for the software my company uses, but keeping track of all the licenses is a major pain in the ass. Every software seller has a different definition of what you have to be able to present to prove that you have a license. A piece of paper? Something with the serial number? The installation CD?
Then they all have different license terms. Some require you to buy one copy for each computer, some let you buy one copy for each concurrent user, some let you uninstall the software from one system and put in on a different one, some make you you buy a fresh copy for each system... it's a HUGE hassle, and the software vendors don't really seem to give a crap about how difficult they're making it for their customers.
Re:The people who were busted... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Stole from them? (Score:0, Interesting)
The GPL doesn't give you shit. It's not worth the paper it's written on. I'm just waiting for the day someone tries to pursue this legally by suing someone for GPL violation. Any lawyer would laugh at this instead of taking the case. I'm being 100% serious.
The GPL may serve a symbolic purpose to some, but it sure as hell doesn't fucking empower you.
>instead of just extorting money from you<
Ahh, okay, now I understand the link to Debian. You must have some pseudo-religious belief that paying for software is inherently wrong. Can you for a moment accept the fact that the millions of dollars and hard work that goes into making a polished software product is worth some monetary value to someone? Just because you don't think so doesn't absolve you from paying for it, nor does it indicate that they are 'extorting' money from anyone else. They're just making a successful living.
Jealous of billg's riches? Well, too bad, some people are good businessmen and some aren't -- just because you're not the richest man in the world doesn't mean you should whine about it and make up all sorts of bullshit lies about how paying for software is "extortion," etc.
What if I claimed that McDonald's is extorting money from me every time I go in there and request a Big Mac. Because, hey, you shouldn't have to pay for food, damnit, so that's extortion! Food must be free! Too bad they don't license Big Macs under the GPL, because hey, if they give Big Macs away for free, they are empowered to sue me or something should I realize that the 'secret sauce' is really Thousand Island dressing.
Where am I going with this? I don't know. That is all.
Re:BSA learned from the master (Score:5, Interesting)
When the BSA does decide to do an audit (as opposed to a mass mailing), it's because they already have some evidence of illegal software use. Most of the time, this is from a former employee, disgruntled employee, or the like (i.e. a contractor you pissed off, former customer, etc.).
If you don't let them in, then they go before a judge and get a warrant, and then US Marshals come in, and you won't refuse the marshals entry (for very long).
I know because a friend of mine got raided. The "tip" came from a business rival. The Marshals found everything was in order and the tipster got billed for the cost of the raid.
Re:The odds? (Score:2, Interesting)
In civil law, you really have no rights, except to hire a lawyer. Everything else is fair game.
If the BSA comes knocking with a letter from a local law firm, you are hosed if you can't show you have the licenses.
Re:Recieved the same thing... (Score:3, Interesting)
Everyone was ordered to back away from the keyboards and stand against the wall in plain view while the BSA guy went to each PC and ran a program on a floppy that would inventory all the software on the PC. He then compiled all the information they got and marched straight to accounting and had them show proof of purchase for every piece of software. Whatever couldn't be proven had to be paid for on top of a stiff penalty.
I would say yes they do have power over your business and it would be wise to avoid a visit by them.
----
What a GREAT reasone to dump Microsoftware! (Score:3, Interesting)
The article stated that all of the BSAA members' licence agreements had this clause (audit by a third party agent of the member) so the legal standing was firm.
So if you have any Microsoft (or other BSA member software) in your shop, they can randomly decide to audit you AND CHARGE YOU FOR THE AUDIT.
What a great way for them to suck money out of other companies whenever they're in trouble - or when the other company might be developing a competing product and they want to shut it down (or at least suck out some of its blood, disrupt its operations, and maybe steal its product-under-developement.)
And what a great thing to use to beat around the head and shoulders any corporate exec who made a decision to use a Microsoft (or other BSA affiliate) product - mission critical or otherwise.
B-)
BSA contacted my company (Score:3, Interesting)
She told them to phuck off as she gets these kinds of sales techniques all the time.
The very next day a Mocrosoft rep called out of the blue. Our MS licences werent up for renewal and we never bought anything from them recently. Coincidence?
Re:We've had this discussion before and... (Score:2, Interesting)
I've tried this, after reading this page:
http://www.crimedoctor.com/loss_prevention_3.htm [crimedoctor.com]
I actually let them search my purchase bag, but not my work bag, which had my laptop, tools, CDs, etc.
I'll be honest, I was a bit nervous and I could've handled it better. But in the end, they let me go, with my purchase.
The guy at the door had no idea what to do though... he called the manager over, and the manager didn't really know what to do either. Here's a tip: Don't give them your bag or receipt, so you can just walk out (which you **can** do).
Re:BSA letter may be a legal trap! (Score:4, Interesting)
How does a "low-level employee" have the authority to extend such an invitation? Let's say I send postcards to everyone at General Motors offering a free calendar, and the small print obliges the company to sell me all the cars I want for $1 apiece, and someone from the janitorial department sends one back. How far do you think I'll get when I show up with my carny roll?
better be bringing a warrant and the police (Score:2, Interesting)
Therefore, they have NO right to go searching through any of my stuff or your stuff. "EULA says they can" my ass.
I'm having a hard time find any case law regarding the BSA (if you find some, post it, I'd be interested)
"...the raids would have an immediate effect on the roughly $12 billion in lost revenue from which the Alliance claims its members suffer each year."
So they're LOSING that much, which means that to actually be staying in buisness at that rate, how much MORE do they actually have to be making? I'm not advocating piracy, but suppose they're losing 30% to piracy. That means that they are MAKING 40 BILLION dollars a year in revenue.
Re:Stole from them? (Score:3, Interesting)
In other words, their buisness is dependant on the fact that the huge majority of people they do buisness with, don't know what the terms of the contract is.
Nice way to do buisness. Very nice.
Re:Recieved the same thing... (Score:3, Interesting)
You know, If the premise of that 'comic' were true, Linux wouldn't have been written, and Mozart wouldn't have done much of anything. Personally, I think it's a dirty lie - if some big corp decides to violate your copyright and you then decide to sue them, they can just spend you into the poorhouse. Never mind that the original intent of copyright law (in England) was to protect publishers.
I wonder if scott adams knows about this or if he's given up some control of the characters to his publisher.
Re:How it works (Score:3, Interesting)
Whatever happened to possession being 9/10ths of the law? I have the CD's; I have no more obligation to keep receipts then I do on the chairs I have.
Re:Stole from them? (Score:5, Interesting)
Just a real world example..
I'm the network schmuck at a small company. I got the job because after a year of ineptitude, they let the previous guy go.
About a week after I started, I got a menacing letter from the BSA. It said we might not be compliant....yadda yadda yadda.
Well, it turns out that the previous network admin had installed Windows 2000 and Office XP on a lot of computers without having licenses for them...
He installed the software while worknig there, knowing we didn't have licenses, then when he got fired, he called the BSA.
Explain to me again why this is the fault of the company, and not the individual who knowingly broke the rules? (And yes I am very hesistant to say "law")
Receipts are a different issue (Score:2, Interesting)
If you didn't have licenses, a civil court could reasonably decide that the preponderance of the
evidence shows you liable for damages. But to say you have licenses and obtained them illegally is a charge of grand theft, a criminal charge. They would have to prove this in criminal court, beyond the shadow of a doubt. No way they'd waste the money on that. IANAL, BIPOOTV.
-Ryan C.
biter bit (Score:3, Interesting)
Tell them to fsck off via a lawyers letter. Report them to the local BBB.
Write a memo to management explaining the savings they would make by moving to Linux+OpenOffice, copy to Microsoft
Just like in Hungary! (Score:2, Interesting)
Unfortunately it does not receive enough publicity that it uses our tax and the police to enforce their member software firms' will on the public.
Dictatorship is not your privilege anymore, my American fellows!
Here's the explanation (Score:3, Interesting)
If he then performed duties that were not his the company made a mistake and have to pay to have the mistakes taken care of.
I'm pretty sure that the company didn't have a lot of computers sitting there with no OS doing nothing and now have a lot of computers with an unlicensed OS installed sitting there doing nothing.
Seeing as you are now in the responsible position it is your duty to uninstall those OS's.
It's pretty simple really.
And it is the law not the "rules", there is no hesitation.
Still, if you install Windows what do you expect. It's when not if that day will come thay the decision will bite you in the ass.
Re:Thank you BSA (Score:2, Interesting)
actually, from what I've heard it doesn;t do that at all. not having any copyright software at all is even worse than having pirated software in the eyes of the BSA and they'll still "audit" you and probably make things very unpleasant. there are a number of stories floating round about the nasty kinda shit the bsa pull.
dave
PS. when rule the world it'll all be different I tell you, different...
Buh...let them come (Score:2, Interesting)
I never got a response back so far.
Re:BSA learned from the master (Score:2, Interesting)
It is a scam, just like all the other BSA practices. they are scumbags and need to be ignored and fought hard when they try to use their organized crime tactics
Re:BSA tactics (Score:3, Interesting)
http://m.doubleclick.net/viewad/821789/3ways2_1
Re:Is the BSA "Grace Period" a Scam? (Score:3, Interesting)
BSA does audit, and they get you all upset because a few businesses got hammered in the local paper. Then they buy these big clean mailing lists of businesses and send out the letter. And people pay them.
If you have any "former" friends, they can trigger an audit and then it's skid row. AND they are ruthless. Unyielding and mean. The legal fees can put a business out of business.
Some guys have started a reform movement both in Europe and here. They say if this isn't tyranny, then what is?
Have you bought or sold software on eBay? Think about it.
Zap your hard drives and use free software. Their audit software picks up data even if you uninstalled it and reformatted your drive.
No, it's not a scam and for those of us who've lived through it, you either pay the price or spend two years in a BSA hell. I fought it (legal background).
The way to beat this is: do not download their stinking audit software. Do not respond to their letters. That will make any drop-by visits an invasion of privacy.
Next, wipe your every hard drive and use a Microwave to melt their CD roms. (Dangerous unless you've made coasters before.) Get a big fence cutter and break any floppies you have.
Get rid of everything.
I was arrogant. I gave away my rights agreeing to their amnesty.
I let them do an audit on us because we didn't have any M$ stuff. Woooops. A secretary had Windows 98 running. We paid for and produced receipts for all the software, but got hung up on an upgrade. We got something bundled with a piece of hardware, long since broke and gone. That software bundle costs thousands.
Now, we knew the piece of hardware, we knew the box, the packing slip, had the receipt and the packing materials. But, noooooooooo, we were criminals.
Use the grace period (hehe) and get rid of your stuff.But don't agree to or sign anything. And don't imagine your lawyer knows as much as the Boy Scouts of America (BSA - right?)
Will they audit you? Will the IRS?
Probably not. But do't think beause they have bigger fish to fry that they won't show up.
You might get 5 out of 6 on your lottery ticket. Or 6 out of 7. If you get 7 out of 7 look out.
Oh and if you do get a good lottery ticket, tell all your friends and they will buy thousands of lotto's. Heck, just get on stage on TV and thank everyone for contributing to you and lotto sales go through the roof.
That's the BSA's theory.
They're making big money!You think that $43 Billion Macrosoft has in the bank came from innovation? Innovation in the field of legal tyrany.
BTW, you won't find any on my Post. I go around and Zap the drives of anyone in my company that uses the stuff.
It's time for your Senator and Congressman to come to the aide of our Country and reform the damn copyright and patent laws.
Jeeze.
- Dal
Charge them for the audit? (Score:2, Interesting)
After consulting with his lawyer, he sent a reply to Microsoft along the following lines: "We would be very happy to assist you in this matter, but since your request would take up a considerable amount of time of our employees, we will have to charge you accordingly."
Microsoft's reply to this was: "Oh, well, never mind..."
Does anybody have similar experiences? It seems perfectly legitimate to charge for any such burden imposed by another company. I wonder if there's a profound legal basis, however.
I make a great living out of this (Score:2, Interesting)