Free Software Operating Systems for Old Laptops? 104
X-Nc asks: "I have an old 486 Laptop that does not have a CD drive and , if I remember right, a very small hard disk (a few megs), and maybe 4 megs of RAM. I would like to let my 6 year old son use this for him to play and learn on. What I'd -really- like to do is install Linux or one of the BSD's on it with enough apps to run a simple editor and a few other things. I have other systems that are able to run learning software and games. This would be for him to learn computer fundimentals. I remember in the old days that you could run X11 on this kind of system (my first Linux box was a 386DX-30 with 2meg RAM and a 20 meg HD). I have been digging around in some of the lists of distros to try and find something to load on the system but I can't seem to find one that's right. So, does anyone know of a Free Software (or even commercial) OS that can be installed on such a system that can do more than be just a terminal?"
Slackware (Score:2, Informative)
DOS? (Score:5, Informative)
What's a six year old gonna do on DOS/Win3.x? Bah! Same thing he is going to do a 486 running RedHat 5.x - same thing we all did when we were running 486sx machines with 4M RAM, 20M hard drive and no CD : explore, learn, interact, and come up with a wicked cool powerpoint detailing exactly why he needs a faster machine with a current OS.
Want a cool upgrade? Assuming the drive is a regular 2.5" laptop drive, or even a regular 3.5" drive shoehorned into a laptop, get one of those adapters that lets you replace it with a Compact Flash card. You can get a 128M card for like $50 or a 64M card for less than $30 (+$10 - $20 for the adapter), install everything onto it and all of a sudden the weakest link (hard drives are fragile, yours is old and fragile) is a solid state device impervious to gravity and 6x as large as it was
Re:DOS? (Score:1)
Mind you, this "information" is anecdotal, as I haven't gotten a system running on flash yet, but in researching it I ran across quite a few warnings to that effect.
Or 2 Disk X Windows, Trinux, ... (Score:2)
Re:Slackware (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Slackware (Score:2)
Anyway, if you're reasonably proficient with Linux, then you could check out http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ [linuxfromscratch.org] to see about putting together an installation with only the stuff you need and save a GigaByte or so of disk space.
Or just install DOS 6.22 and include a line in autoexec to start up Wolfenstein :-)
Peanut Linux? (Score:3, Interesting)
RULE? (Score:2, Informative)
Well, (Score:5, Informative)
If you're really low on disk space though, 2.5" 1GB IDE drives can be had for around $20. Less if you're willing to snipe on ebay. If you want to spend $35, you can have a whopping 6GB!
Re:Well, (Score:2)
Joe
Re:Well, (Score:2)
Re:Well, (Score:2)
You might get by, but I think another distro might suit you better... Not sure which one - I'm still looking, myself.
Re:Well, (Score:1)
I would recommend PLIP if you have a parallel port, much faster. PLIP Install HOW TO [ibiblio.org].
Lessee... (Score:5, Interesting)
How about using an old Linux distro, something from the Red Hat 5.x era? There are a ton of security holes, but given the environment in which this is going to be used (a single 6 year old user, no important data, no networking) who cares if wu-ftpd is vulnerable?
Run WindowMaker or AfterStep or even that fvwm95 monstrosity Red Hat used to ship and it will be fine.
I've never seen it, but QNX might be an alternative. Does BeOS support pre-Pentium systems?
Re:Lessee... (Score:2)
No, neither QNX nor BeOS support pre-Pentium computers. I think QNX actually needs a quite fast computer. BeOS runs very well on a Pentium Classic with 32 MB RAM though.
I think FreeBSD would be fine if you run a smaller implementation of X11 on it. Anyone tried the Tiny-X [linuxdevices.com] server on FreeBSD?
Re:Lessee... (Score:3, Informative)
QNX is an embedded OS, it does not require a fast computer. I use QNX (4.25, if anyone cares) everyday, with photon (QNX GUI), and it's pretty snappy on a Pentium 166 with 32MB RAM. My install takes up just under 140MB of drive space, and that includes our custom software.
No, neither QNX nor BeOS support pre-Pentium computers.
This may be true for BeOS, but QNX definately supports sub-pentium machines. The current version of Neutrino (6.2.0) supports 386
Re:Lessee... (Score:2)
Thanks for clearing that up then. Sorry for misinforming people. I knew older versions of QNX supported even 8086, but I read somewhere that newer versions (those available for free download) needed faster HW. Having checked http://www.qnx.ca I now see that I was wrong.
Windows 95 (Score:5, Funny)
Step2) Throw some Sid Meiers Colonization on that bad boy
Step3)
Re:Windows 95 (Score:2)
Re:Windows 95 (Score:2)
i would just hook that computer with something like freedos or some other, and tell him theres this nice place called the-underdogs.org to get games+reviews of older stuff. if he has the hd to spare some linux installation would be nice but finding games for it could be a major bummer compared to dos based system that has dozens and dozens of good classic games available.
nethack should run on that just as well, even though introducing kids to thing like crack isn't advisable.
Re:Windows 95 (Score:1)
"You can run Windows 95 on a 386 computer with 4 megabytes of RAM, but we recommend 8 megs for better performance. If you're going to upgrade to more powerful applications, more memory is better. My laptop computer has 12 megs."
- Bill Gates, August 1995
Here's the link to the page [microsoft.com].
Amazing, eh?
Re:Windows 95 (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Windows 95 (Score:2)
My laptop computer has 12 megs.
Okay, it was eight years ago, but this still seems hard to believe. I was around then, but I really can't remember the technology limits of the time (I had a 4Mb laptop in 1995!) as memory was expensive.
Was 12Mb the limit? After all, the richest guy in the world would have as much memory in his laptop as possible, right?
Re:Windows 95 (Score:2)
Re:Windows 95 (Score:1)
Step2) Throw some Sid Meiers Colonization on that bad boy
Step3)
Step4) Let him play on it for 3 months. Step5) Got to step 1.
Shouldn't step 3 be "profit?"
Why Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)
There's got to be something installed on the laptop already, so why not just let him use it as is? It will still help him learn about computers.
Your six year old is not a kernel hacker, and need not be treated as such.
Re:Why Linux? (Score:5, Informative)
Another question might be
Forget Windows95 on a machine with 4Megs. Yes I know it can be done, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea. Win3.1 should run ok on 4M if he doesn't actually want to run any applications.
What runs on DOS 6.22/Win3.1 w/ 4M RAM?
IE 3
Netscape 3
Borland's Delphi (Pascal with a GUI IDE)
Borland's C++ Builder (? can't remember)
Borland's Dashboard (cool shell for Win3.x)
Doom I and most of Doom II
The first three levels of Duke Nukem III
Falcon 3.0
FreeAgent connected to Usenet, A.B.E.P.*
A slew of older games
Foxpro 2.x for DOS
GWBasic
688 Attack Sub
Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe
Honestly I don't have a clue of available apps for RH 5.x distro
Re:Why Linux? (Score:2)
Doom isn't so bad for a six year old. You're probably confusing it with Quake, which is a bit too difficult. In Doom, you don't have to aim precisely like in modern first person shooters, you just have to shoot in the general direction of the creature you want to kill. If it's too difficult for him, just show him how to get to the shotgun, from then on it's really child's play.
Doom is probably as good an introduction to FPS's as you can
Re:Why Linux? (Score:1)
Re:Why Linux? (Score:2)
Tip : don't let your six year old play Doom if he has had more than one Crown & Coke (and mix them weak, he's just a little kid.)
PS - no I don't have an
Re:Why Linux? (Score:2, Funny)
Hahahaha... hahahaha. Just because children are capable of graspin
Re:Why Linux? (Score:1)
What happened to the good old days of "NIBBLES.BAS"?
Re:Why Linux? (Score:4, Interesting)
If you can up it to 8M of RAM, you are golden. SimTower, SimCity 2000, SimFarm all ran fine, as Doom.
Don't throw a 6 year old at a Linux command line. Get him used to something like Win 3.1 and simply get him comfortable using a computer, period. Especially being able to type reasonably well and without having to hunt and peck.
AFTER that -- he understands directories, files, executables, and can type well, then move him to something else, whatever it may be.
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NFS mount (Score:3, Informative)
Slackware 4.0 (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Slackware 4.0 (Score:2, Interesting)
It wasn't that long ago that the 'main
Re:Slackware 4.0 (Score:3, Interesting)
Ditto (Score:1)
Instead (Score:5, Insightful)
From lots of personal experience, I suggest instead of asking 'What OS', ask "How can I introduce computers to my 6 year old in a fun way?" And go from there. In other words your solution should be application specific, not OS specific. Games are good. Making his name flash on the screen is good. If you really want him to learn fast lock him out of folders named "Christmas List", "Secrets", etc.
Reading, computing, microscopes, and ant farms. These things all need to FUN for kids otherwise it's work and kids learn to hate it quickly.
FreeBSD (Score:5, Informative)
While X and all may take a little time to start up, FreeBSD performs exceptionally well under low memory situations. It does very little redundant copying, and tunes the swap and scheduling policies as the load increases to try and help keep interactive applications responding smoothly at the expense of some services.
Many of these features are now in the Linux kernel, but I don't know that it'll be too easy to pack them into a tiny kernel to maximize the amount of pageable memory for applications.
Re:FreeBSD (Score:2)
Re:FreeBSD (Score:2)
400k compressed doesn't help. It still needs to be decompressed in order to be run.
Re:FreeBSD (Score:2)
The default installer disk suggested 8mb, but worked with less. For a 4mb notebook, it might come down to installing on an alternate machine then dropping the drive in, but it'll definitely run.
Sounds just below the usable range... (Score:2)
I personally don't have any experience trying to use X in an installation smaller than 120 MB. If you can get this mu
do a used update first (Score:3, Informative)
And there ya go! Proly take ya all freekin day and nite day to install it, but then you'll have it. ram might cost ya 5 bucks, a one gigger whatever drive maybe 10$. PLUS, junior gets to see hardware upgrading! It's part of geekdom! It ain't all typing and starin at the screen, there's important SCREWDRIVER action young lads need to learn! BLESS my dad for getting me REAL tools when I was a kid instead of those plastic toy tools. I got his grade b stuff he didn't want, some he cut down to size or picked for size, but they were *real* tools made outta 'murican steel like God intended. And I got old radios and busted lawnmowers and woodscraps and odd chunks of metallic things and stuff to dork with. Cool beans! I was building stuff and tearing apart crap before I could read all that well. Now I ain't askeered of nuthin, even though I still bork half or more of my junker projects.
that's a good idea (Score:1)
thanks! (Score:1)
Minix? (Score:3, Funny)
Have done exactly this with Debian 2.2 (Score:2, Informative)
Check out NEW DEAL INC (Score:2)
Re:Check out NEW DEAL INC (Score:1)
Try ZipSlack (Score:3, Interesting)
From the web site: "ZipSlack is a special edition of Slackware Linux that can be installed onto any FAT (or FAT32) filesystem with about 100 MB of free space. It uses the UMSDOS filesystem and contains most of the programs you will need. This means that you do not need to repartition your hard disk if you already have DOS or Windows installed. ZipSlack installs into a directory on your DOS filesystem. It can also be installed to and booted from a Zip disk.
This distribution is ideal for people who don't have a lot of hard disk space, do not have a fast Internet connection to download the entire distribution, or who want a Linux distribution they can carry around on a Zip disk."
Do him a favor.... (Score:1, Insightful)
He will thank you in 20 years when he's not a big, fat, Socially inept geek.
6 Year old laptop? (Score:1)
Small Linux? Freedos? (Score:2, Insightful)
I have a bunch of old laptops so I have had the same problem as you. There is Small Linux [superant.com] but that didn't really suit me at the time. You can forget installing any other Linux distro on anything with less than 4Mb of RAM, although I would say Slackware [slackware.com] is the best of the bunch when it comes to hardware requirements.
In the end I opted for Freedos [freedos.org] for a 386 with 2Mb that my 5 year old son plays with. It's not UNIX, but it's much more UNIX-like than any other DOS I have used. There are also many educational
A few weird tries (Score:1)
Build your own? (Score:1)
It really isn't that hard.
First off, get an SFF to standard IDE adapter so you can put the hard disk in your main computer and copy stuff to it rather than having to copy stuff around on floppies 'til you get a network drive up. Costs you $20, you'll end up using it a few more times, I guarantee.
Mount th
DOS and/or GEOS! (Score:2)
Re:DOS and/or GEOS! (Score:2)
OpenBSD (Score:2)
My first choice would really be MS-DOS or PC-DOS or DR-DOS or FreeDOS. There is a huge amount of software. It is much easier to find DOS drivers for old laptops than it is BSD or Linux. If you really want t
BasicLinux (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.volny.cz/basiclinux
There is a version for 4mb RAM.
It uses a 2.0 kernel and libc5.
5mb BasicLinux HD foundation
12mb X (with icewm)
1mb xfreecell
15mb C compiler
33mb TOTAL
Simple (Score:2)
He'll learn real fast that way.
It's probably the reason I'm doing anything with computers today.
("YOU DID **WHAT** WITH OUR NEW $3000 COMPUTER??")
FreeDOS, not Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
Consider FreeDOS. It may or may not work on your old laptop. But if it does, all you need is to
- Add a menuing system
- Set up a nice autoexec.bat to handle all the sound, mouse, and screen setting, and to drop the PC into the menu
- Collect some abandonware or free DOS games or educational software
I used to have an old Thinkpad. With DOS, it ran great. With Linux, it also ran great... until you loaded the X window system.
I second the ideas here to either upgrade the hard disk with a newer laptop IDE drive, or to use CompactFlash.
Re:FreeDOS, not Linux (Score:2)
Then consider loading this [arachne.cz] on it (it can also be configured as menuing system). An earlier version was included in the FreeDOS distro, but I don't think that version played MP3's
If you can then link him into the house network (The Arachne browser comes with a freeware TCPIP stack for DOS), he can surf the web, and check email with it.
Use it as an X Terminal (Score:4, Interesting)
Advantages:
- given that you'll probably be installing Linux and X on the old laptop anyway, it should be easier to install just enough to have it run as an Xterm, rather than having to install several games, drawing programs, etc. into limited space
- you'll probably get more life out of it, given that there's very little that's going to have to change on it once it's up and going properly
- you can send him cute messages from your other PC (don't underestimate how exciting kids find this!)
- very little software on his PC means very little to go wrong
- if/when he breaks or outgrows it, you can quickly get another clunker PC and bring it up as another XTerm
Disadvantages:
- you'll need a network card, which you may or may not have in this laptop. It should be pretty cheap to track down an old Xircom or something similar
FWIW, my two boys (6 and 4) have been playing games and surfing Web sites on one of my Linux PCs for years - basically, they started "helping" me work before they could walk. There's lots of games and drawing programs out there if you look around. They're yet to show OTT geek tendencies, or any inability to use a MS OS, as far as I can detect - you should be safe!
RedHat 6.2 (Score:1)
Several things you can run (Score:3, Informative)
X will be dismal, ( even with remote apps ) but it will work. FBSD will be a tad better then linux due to the VM, but still irratating...
FBSD will install across the wire.. all you need is ethernet + floppy..
OpenDOS 7 (Score:2, Interesting)
TON of applications and games for DOS freely
available. In fact, I am posting this response
on the following: OpenDOS 7.1 and Arachne web
browser 1.7. I am connected using my DSL
connection (through an Etherlink III nic). The
packet drivers etc.. are provided with the
browser. This version of DOS has some
multitasking capabilities built in, along with a
cool game (Netwars). I also have an office
suite/operating environment called New Deal
(based on GEOS) that is fully GUI.
Old Laptop, lightweight OS (Score:1)
Seal is available on Sourceforge.net,
TinyX (Score:1)
Why not dig out an old 8 bit? (Score:1, Interesting)
MuLinux or PicoBSD (Score:1)
MuLinux [sunsite.dk]
or
PicoBSD [freebsd.org]
to get started with a minimilist distro. Pico BSD runs on a single floppy, and I think MuLinux requires at least two. Onoe advantage of MuLinux is that it can actually run X after a few more floppys. I had both of these running at one point on a Laptop w/ 8 megs of ram.
Enjoy.
old laptop (Score:1)