Legality of Renting Video Games? 97
Scott McChesney asks: "Where I live seems to be filled with Gamers but there are almost no places that rent console games. This got me thinking about opening one of my own but I have no clue about the licensing of such a thing. X-Box games all say on the back that buying the game does not give you the ability to rent it. I'm wondering what one has to do to be able to legally rent out video games?"
Blockbuster (Score:1, Redundant)
section of Sega, X-Box and Playstation games.
They even used to rent Gameboy catridges until
recently.
Re:Blockbuster (Score:1)
Re:Blockbuster (Score:2)
i recall for a short time, i believe around when metropolis first came out that blockbuster rented videos. that didnt last very long and seemed like any easy way to pirate movies. ;-)
Strike deals with game producers (Score:2, Informative)
P.S. Blockbuster rents games, don't you have a blockbuster nearby?
Re: (Score:1)
How to make it legal (Score:2)
Re:How to make it legal (Score:5, Informative)
Nope. I spent well over 2 years in a blockbuster and we got all of our games for well below (about $20 less) retail from a company named Waxworks. As far as paying a fee to the production companies I know of only one license fee paid and that was to Blockbuster itself for the store trademark.
I'm unsure and someone will be able to probably correct me but I seem to remember a court case in the 80s regarding rental of copyrighted material.
Re:How to make it legal (Score:2)
Same for us (Score:1)
Re:Same for us (Score:2)
Re:How to make it legal (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.cni.org/docs/infopols/US.Comp.Softwa r e. Rental.html
Basically Nintendo and others lobbied to get a law passed outlawing rentals, but a clause in the act allows game cartridgte rentals for consoles, but outlawed computer software rentals.
"(B) This subsection does not apply to--
"(ii) a computer program embodied in or used in conjunction with a limited purpose computer that is design
I think they charge a bunch for the rentable media (Score:2)
I would assume that rental games are sold in the same manner, it costs a lot initially but then you don't have to calculate royalties. Everybody wins!
Re:I think they charge a bunch for the rentable me (Score:2)
With this, they know only the video store (and hardcore fans) will pay the $100 rate. Video stores will pay because they want to have the *newest releases*. After a couple of weeks, they have captured the sales to most of the rental stores, so then they drop the price to sell to consumers.
W
Re:I think they charge a bunch for the rentable me (Score:2)
Re:I think they charge a bunch for the rentable me (Score:1)
No the tapes they get are exactly the same as the ones that end up retail.
All we do is unbox the movies, put them in the plastic rental cases with the printed slip covers.
Then when they get sold as "previously viewed" we re-box them in the retail packaging.
Re:I think they charge a bunch for the rentable me (Score:1)
It just depends on how you buy the tape and from what outlet. We got most of ours from Waxworks, but towards the end of my stay there Warner Bros stopped selling their tapes through second parties. By doing this not only did they get a bigger piece of the pie, but could bring a heap of purchasing options to the table that
Re:How to make it legal (Score:2)
This is what you're referring to:
"For years Nintendo had been trying to stop the burgeoning industry of video-game rentals. It took the largest video-game rental company, Blockbuster, to court and worked with Hill & Knowlton's Massey to attempt to convince legislators to make it illegal. At the same time, Nintendo also attempted to stop video-game rent
Re:How to make it legal (Score:2)
Re:How to make it legal (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm going to presume that games must be fairly similar - although $50 a pop would seem reasonable as it this would be around 100% profit to the publisher (although some fees on the back end - say $1 a rent to the publisher wouldn't seem out of the question). The hardest part would be hooking up with the retail distribution chain - I don't know how you would go about d
Re:How to make it legal (Score:2)
I worked at blockbuster for quite a while. :\ They pay about $60-160 per VHS/DVD to rent, as for video games, I am not quite sure, however I don't think it was that far off.
Your best bet is to get a buisnes
Re:How to make it legal (Score:2)
First Sale (Score:3, Funny)
May he rest in peace.
Re:First Sale (Score:3, Funny)
A clearly incorrect opinion on First Sale (Score:2)
Of course I also think the DMCA and the CTEA are unconstitutional, defendants have a right to see evidence used against them, and presidents are elected by the general population. So clearly you should not be taking any legal advice from me.
Re:First Sale (Score:2)
The problem is that you don't own it, but rather a very limited license that allows you to use it if the owner wants you to.
Just look at Microsoft Office for example, you may only run it as long as you own a copy of Windows, thus wine cannot compete as you still have to pay your "taxes".
Re:First Sale (Score:2)
With a shrink wrap license? IANAL, but that is only enforcable if the UCITA has passed in your state. I doubt even microsoft uses a click wrap license in console video games...
Then again, what do I know. I think it's fraud if you buy something, take it home and unwrap it, only to find out you supposedly don't own it...
Re:First Sale (Score:2)
Actually, I live in the state and countrt of Sweden, a part of the European Union. Here, it is not illegal (but perhaps imoral) to download stuff for private use so if I was a gamer I would probably not have any problems buying or renting games :)
The above statement has not been tried in a court, so do not take my word(s) for it.
Re:First Sale (Score:2)
> Sweden, a part of the European Union.
In some European countries (notably Britain) it is illegal to rent or loan copyrighted material unless you are a public library.
Re:First Sale (Score:1)
The restrictiuons that they can place on what you can do with the software is quite limited. I don't know whether this includes rental. Logically, I don't see any difference between renting videos and renting power tools, but the media cartels see things differently
Re:First Sale (Score:1)
I did not know that. Another strike against Micro$oft in my book.
Re:First Sale (Score:2)
> a very limited license that allows you to use it
> if the owner wants you to.
Bullshit. If I bought it I own it and can rent it or sell it at my pleasure.
Re:First Sale (Score:1)
Meant to highlight the relevant part, sorry. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Meant to highlight the relevant part, sorry. (Score:2)
Translation: Hollywood, we run things now. You don't.
I wonder if Blockbuster has something like the Wal-Mart Corridor of Doom, where they squeeze vendors.
Acts of Gord (Score:5, Insightful)
"Who is this Gord? Well, let me tell you about Gord."
Re:GORD IS NOT FUNNY. GORD = C.B.G. FROM THE SIMPS (Score:1)
Re:GORD IS NOT FUNNY. GORD = C.B.G. FROM THE SIMPS (Score:1)
(Gord looks up and sees certain doom)
Gord: Oh, I've wasted my life.
Note the above is humor, and not any indication I wish ill upon the person who writes the Acts of Gord.
Re:Acts of Gord (Score:1)
Beautiful stuff! Where are my mod points when I need them? *sigh* Anywho, thanks for the link!
Re:Acts of Gord (Score:1)
How odd... (Score:2)
Just out of curiosity, are you in the US or not?
Re:How odd... (Score:2)
Heaven forbid that he should tell us what jurisdiction he lives in. He might, in some way, accidentally get an answer that might be in some way relevant.
Provided that you own the game, go nuts (Score:5, Informative)
So, provided that the owner of the particular game cartridge or disc wants to rent it out, and provided that it is for a console and not a general purpose computer, you can just go ahead and do it.
(mod up, this explains it all) (Score:3, Insightful)
You can't walk past a Starbucks before coming across a Blockbuster in this great nation.
Re:(mod up, this explains it all) (Score:1)
Re:(mod up, this explains it all) (Score:2, Funny)
Re:(mod up, this explains it all) (Score:2)
McDonalds = 30,000 restraunts
TacoBell/PizzaHut/KFC/LongJohnSilvers/A&W > 30,000
Burger King = 11450
Wendys = 8800 restraunts
Blockbuster > 8000 stores
Starbucks = 5886 locations.
Walgreens = 3998 locations
Of course, McD is in every small town, but Starbucks are typically only in busier cities.
And, to keep on topic, video rental stores typically pay more for their videos. S
Re:Provided that you own the game, go nuts (Score:2)
Go read up more on contract law. (Score:2)
However, there's nothing preventing the copyright owners from putting whatever stupid clauses they want on the shrink wrap to scare people into giving them more power.
Re:Go read up more on contract law. (Score:1)
Licenses are a certain form of contract, and may include nearly any other sort of restriction you want, including removal of rights of speach, distribution, sale, etc (think about NDA's -- simple, common contra
Re:Go read up more on contract law. (Score:2)
So, yes, you can give up lots of rights via contracts, but you don't have a contract with the company that produced the video game. Therefore, it doesn't matter what conditions they
Re:Go read up more on contract law. (Score:1)
When you say ``we already decided'', you're talking about the doctirne of first sale (mentioned often in this topic). This will clearly apply to the MEDIUM of the software (manuals, CD's, box, etc), but MAY NOT apply to the *license* to use the software. Yes, this does lead to some startling situations, where someone pays for a CD containing software that they can't use.
This is not, however, equivalent to losing
Re:Provided that you own the game, go nuts (Score:2)
Set your browsing to +5, somewhere down the page I go into explaining how these licensing fee's are going to eat up my gamehouse profits. Now onto your comment
is not applicable to software used for a limited purpose computer designed for playing video games.
In a gamehouse enviroment, computers are pretty much a "limited purpose computer designed for playing video games" The stations are locked down, users cannot use them as "
Re:Provided that you own the game, go nuts (Score:2)
First, you'd have to establish that you bought the games. I.e. you're denying that the EULA had any effect whatsoever, because if you only licensed the game section 109 is not applicable at all. I'd hope that EULAs can be invalidated en masse, but it'll pit the entire software industry against you.
Second, I don't think that a general purpose computer becomes a limited purpose computer merely because it isn't being fully utilized. The law appears to apply mo
Its Gotta Be... (Score:1)
CLIFF! HEY CLIFF? (Score:5, Insightful)
I asked this same question: Gamehouse Ref: (Score:5, Informative)
Funny thing was, cliff took the time to personally respond. I'd paste the message in this post, but I deleted it from the inbox.
Video game rental is a big issue for me because I'm in the process of opening up a gamehouse right now. Most game companies, with the exception of Bioware and Epic have just plain greedy licensing schemes that eat up any profit a game house owner might see.
Here [slashdot.org] are my thoughts on this issue, posted on the story about the price of commander keen. My argument against these licensing fee's go along the following..
Capcom, Atari, ect all provided more than just a cabinet when they sold you a game. You got a cabinet (physical security) Coin Mech (money validator) Access software (credits) Input Device (Joystick, buttons) Service contracts, monitor, and the game. Usually it was anywhere between a 50/50 to a 25/75 split for the quarters between the cabinet owner and the person that owned the property.
Now with a gamehouse, I'm providing those first 6 items, while the game company only provides the game. After looking at paying off employee's, loans, and a lease, these fee's are going to be eating up enough of my profits to where me, the owner is going to be lucky to break even at the end of the month. On top of all that I have a machine that needs to be replaced every 2-3 years to stay current with the CPL standard so I can host CPL qualifyers at my place.
Companies like Id, Activision, well, everyone except bioware/epic all expect a cut out of your gross profits. I could see them asking for a cut from the net, but the gross? That's just greed. No value added services, no special gamehouse edition, nothing.
I took some time out to write Mark Rein of Epic, to thank him for his companies license free policy. Following is his response.
Toqer,
We've had this policy for a long time. Basically if people play the game at your location they might be encouraged to buy their own copy for home and to tell their friends about it. We feel it's a win-win for both sides. The only think we ask in return is that you legally purchase, and keep on hand at all times, a copy of UT2003 for each machine the game is being played on.
As for images, you're welcome to use screen shots you create for the purpose of positive promotion of our game in your establishment.
Good luck!
Mark Rein
Epic Games Inc.
How fucking cool is that? Not only do they let you rent it as long as you buy a legal retail copy without fee's, they're more than happy to let me use their images/logo's screenshots for my centers motif.
Bottom line is, these licensing fee's suck. Ford doesn't charge me for making money on a truck after I purchase it, and neither should game companies. It's unfortunate that for some games (counterstrike) i'll have to pay these fee's if I want to carry the games that will draw the customers. What makes it even less fair, is I plan on playing by the rules, and there are many many other gamehouses that completely skip out on these fee's. I would love to challenge them in court, but as a startup, i'm in no position to do so.
Re:I asked this same question: Gamehouse Ref: (Score:2)
But you read slashdot right? MPAA, RIAA, and how artists get screwed because their take is tied to the net, and nothing makes money because expenses are padded. Same thing here.
Gross revenue is the only number that means anything. Who's to say that you don;t have a umbrella company that actually owns everything and leases back to the gamehouse. And suprise s
suggestions (Score:2)
(2) Sponsor, or contribute to, the development of open source games.
Re:suggestions (Score:1)
Rental (Score:1)
Much like music, the video game companies sell copies of the game (at extremely inflated prices) that you can rent out. They cost in the $600-$1000 range. That's how the company makes money on a game that can be played by so many people.
Re:Rental (Score:1)
Re:Rental (Score:2)
Of course, it's not really renting because they don't charge you anything.
Re:Rental (Score:1)
Secrets of Blockbuster (Score:1)
Do you remember, long ago, when there was no Blockbuster? In my town, video stores were mostly mom and pop shops with names like 'Videoflicks' and 'At The Movies'. They'd have like 1 copy of a new release and you just had to be lucky to get it. If a movie was deemed particularly hot, they might buy two. They couldn
You don't purchase software (Score:2)
Purchase implies you can do whatever you want with it because you own it.
License implies that there are restrictions on the softwares usage.
Re:You don't purchase software (Score:2)
Re:You don't purchase software (Score:2)
No, they are not the third party. They are the first (or possibly second) party. The software publisher is the third party.
The store bought the software from the distributor, who bought it from the publisher.
If someone along that chain signed an agreement that said they would only sell a license, then they are legally at fault. But since the software is, in fact, a legal copy, and it was sold to you, then you bought it.
You still have to agree to the s
Re:You don't purchase software (Score:1)
>You don't have to agree to anything before installing software.
I am a little confused, what rights to the makers of the software have then?
Re:You don't purchase software (Score:2)
IANAL either, but I don't believe this is true. See Softman vs Adobe [linuxjournal.com], where Adobe's "not for individual resale" statement was found to be meaningless. Adobe tried and failed to argue that the defendant "licensed" the software instead of purchasing it. We're getting closer, but we haven't quite reached the point where the law is whatever a publisher says it is.
This is separate from the issue of EULAs which restrict the usage of software, which I also
Re:This is... (Score:1)
Don't rent- Sell! (Score:2)
You sell a used game at full-price. This is a lot easier to defend in court if it ever comes to that.
Also do this:
Buy games from customers at less-than-full price.
Sale price minus Buy price equals rental price.
It's like renting out a game with some extra assurance that they'll bring it back.
If they dont bring it back, or damage the disc, or anything else that rentals usually have to worry about, you've got the money for a replacement.
Obvious problems, yes. I'm sure there are ways to get
Purchase / License or Own / Loan (Score:1)
Microsoft is well on its way to ensuring that no one ever purchases their software again and will continue to pressure for legislation that erodes consumers rights of fair use to ensure an annual revenue stream
Read NO LOGO and you'll get a good idea were some of the big guns of consumerism are heading. Everything is a monthly payment... sure makes that global food and water credit easier to est
Game rental doesn't work (Score:1)