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Music Media Software

What Pro-Level MIDI/Audio Tools Are You Using? 85

Posted by Cliff from the slashdot-musical-authoring-program-census dept.
groovemaneuver asks: "Over the years, I've managed to build a small home-studio for composing and recording my music. The one component that has always been the biggest obstacle to my productivity has been the digital audio workstation. I started with a MIDI-only Atari, moved to a PC with Logic Audio, and now have a Mac with Logic Audio. The problem is that I seem to spend more time trying to get the software and hardware working than I do actually making music. I really love Logic Audio, but I can't stand the Mac. Surely some of you out there are having success on the PC making music. What are you using, and how much of your time is spent fiddling with your studio rather than making music? Is there Linux software that can reasonably fill the shoes of Logic, Nuendo, or Sound Forge?"
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What Pro-Level MIDI/Audio Tools Are You Using? More

What Pro-Level MIDI/Audio Tools Are You Using?

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  • Propellerhead (Score:5, Informative)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @08:56AM (#5700583) Homepage Journal
    Propellerhead software makes a lot of really good stuff.

    http://www.propellerheads.se/

    Especially Reason. It may be expensive and non-free. But it can emulate audio hardware that you'll never be able to afford in your life. Technically it has infinite rack space. It may not be midi, but I know a lot of people who swear by it for making electronic music and remixes. It's cheaper and easier than actually buying the hardware, and it works almost just as well. If you have Rebirth Reason and Recycle you can make some really crazy shite.

    For midi I hear Cakewalk is still numero uno. There's not much more to say there.

    And for wav editing Cooledit seems to still be the best. My roomate has it and swears by it.

    • Re: CoolEdit (Score:3, Informative)

      by hafree ( 307412 )
      I used to bounce between Sound Forge and Cool Edit, trying to decide which to use. Cool Edit was cheaper and seemed just as good, but Sound Forge was the de facto standard. I wound up opting for Cool Edit Pro for one huge reason - fast cut-and-paste editing. With Sound Forge, deleting 15 seconds of audio from the end of a 60-minute wav file is instant, but deleting it from the beginning of the sound clip requires that all data be shifted over by 15 seconds, which can take minutes. 90% of the work I do h

    • It may not be midi...

      It supports MIDI input. Sequencer can record external MIDI messages, and the whole virtual rack can by controlled by external MIDI messages just like a real rack. The sequencer can't send MIDI to real physical MIDI outputs however, it only controls the rack. So what's so good about Reason? Great synths, low CPU load, high integration (the sequencer and control EVERY knob of EVERY module), intuitive UI. What's bad? Sequencer primitive compared to Cubase/Logic, no support for linea

    • Propellorhead is great for hobbiests and tinkerers, but it's not professional stuff. the sound quality just isn't there.. and it's very restictive.

      same goes for cakewalk... for pro midi and audio work you'd want cubase or logic... they're the only ones with the timing and flexability to work in a pro studio.

      i've been an experimental electronic musician for years.. so i do have some experience with all this software. but, if you're really interested in audio and sound you should check out PD [pd.iem.at] .. it's op

      • "Propellorhead is great for hobbiests and tinkerers, but it's not professional stuff. the sound quality just isn't there.. and it's very restictive."

        At the risk of sounding like a real jerk, do you KNOW any professional electronic musicians?
        I think you'd be surprised to find how many artists on well-respected labels worldwide are using Reason for their projects. I know several who don't use anything else and they're selling records out the wazoo.

        Furthermore, Reason 2.0 shipped with a massive 24-bit orch
    • It may not be midi, but I know a lot of people who swear by it for making electronic music and remixes.

      It's not a complete midi setup, but it definitely has support for MIDI in/out. I have a midi controller hooked up and I essentially use Reason as a real-time soft-synth. It's dead-easy to use: hit record (with click track on), play your riff, hit stop when done.

  • I'd be more curious about why you're having so many issues getting the hardware and software to work...and why those problems are repeating themselves? Is it the same problem everytime? Or is it a new issue at every corner? The professional recording studio that my group used in the past used Macs quite reliably. We had no time lost with hardware issues.

    I personally LOVE Logic Audio and think it is some of the finest software built for its purpose. I'm not as much up to speed on the Linux platform stu

    • I think what it comes down to is that I'm frustrated with the Mac. I never wanted to migrate, but because Logic was bought-out by Apple, I had the choice to either switch to Apple or find another program. At the time, I had the money for a Mac, I really love Logic Audio, and all the wonderful advertising about the great Mac experience got the better of me.

      At this point, I feel like a victim of marketting hype, because when I bought the Mac, once a week, it seemed as though something would just decide to

      • Thanks for filling in the gaps - I still diagnose a terminal case of bleeding-edge-itis!

        At the moment, Logic on the Mac does nothing much theat Logic on the PC doesn't have. In a few months that will probably change, but let's not forget that every single album made so far has been put together without the benefits of whatever the next version of Logic will have.

        I suggest you go back to Logic on the PC, because it's a damn fine professional-level product which has a steep learning curve as it's main weakn

        • I do go for the bleeding edge in some regard, but who doesn't want the newest bells and whistles when they are made out to sound like they'll actually promote productivity in the studio?

          Here's the problem with going back to the PC: there is at least one feature in Logic 6 that I have been craving since 1998 -- non real-time rendering of a final mix. Every other app I know of has done this for years, and I've been hoping it would show up in Logic. I have the Mac now, it's mostly working, I just don't like

          • I'm in complete agreement about non-real time rendering, I've been wanting this for many years too - my work-round is to go make a cup of tea :-)

            I'm a Mac fanatic, but I can understand the frustration of switching platform. I still highly recommend you go grab the demo version of MetaSynth and have a really good play with it, it's just such an amazing pice of code it might just convert you to Mac evangelism!

            - Andy_R
      • I too use a PC to do the audio editing on anything I do. Basically, it was cheap and fast. I don't like using it other than that.

        On the mac end for sound editing, there are a lot of products. Sound Studio [felttip.com] is a great little program. Spark is a professional level program that would give Soundforge a run for the money.

        But, whatever works. I personally like having two computers. A Mac for doing all the creative stuff, and the PC to record the product.


  • Not that I'm flaming, but maybe there's something that you can be helped with in terms of using the Mac. I understand (really! I do!) that it's not for everyone, but I've found that usually when people say that they don't care for the Mac experience, that they haven't been educated how to use it. This is true among power users especially--they have grown accustomed to having certain features/abilities in one place, and when they can't find it on the Mac in the same place, get frustrated.

    So, are there a
    • I have a friend (yes, really!) who is a video guy...mostly ENG stuff.

      He's always used a PC and hates touching a Mac for video editing because "I can't work with a single button mouse!".

      I keep telling him that he should plug a 3-button mouse into the Mac, then...but he still feels somehow a PC with a 3-button mouse is better ;-)

      -psy

    • How about there being essentially no working VST implementation on OSX and practically no working Audio Units to use?

      • Re:Macs (Score:2)

        by mosch ( 204 )
        So Cubase SX and Cubase X|TC don't exist and the MOTU interfaces aren't supported? That's odd... Here I thought I was using them on a 10.2.5 box about ten minutes ago.
  • I use a whole slew of applications from Sonic Foundry and I find they suit my needs quite nicely. I tend to use Sonic Foundry Acid Pro more than anythignelse but I began using Vegas when it was version 1.0 and I've been quite happy with it. Even though they added video editing to the package they haven't slouched with the audio editing capabilities. Sound Forge is excellent for doing effect editing though I find I use it less and less and just work right in Vegas for most of that sort of work. This allo

  • Cubase (Score:4, Informative)

    by Joel Rowbottom ( 89350 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @09:15AM (#5700755) Homepage
    For ages I was using Cubase 5.0r3, then I upgraded to Cubase SX. I tried Logic, and a few others, and eventually I went back to Cubase 5.0r3. It comes down to what you feel comfortable with - you seem to have used Logic a bit, does that make you a "Logic" user now? If so, you'll find going to another app is a whole new learning curve.

    At risk of making myself unpopular, the Linux apps just aren't there yet.

    Of course, a Protools setup with a nice fat Mac would be preferable I'm sure ;)

  • For MIDI composing, I use Cakewalk (Home Studio, old version), paired with a standard Audigy and a couple of free soundfonts in the 100MB range. I'm not quite getting "professional" quality out of it all the time, but it works amazingly well for my needs. See, I'm usually not interested in playing around with sounds, but rather in harmonization and achieving high levels of polyphonic complexity.

  • Stop trying to play catchup. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by torpor ( 458 ) <ibisum AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday April 10, 2003 @09:21AM (#5700807) Homepage Journal
    My only advice to you is to ignore the software market as much as possible, and decide on a *stable* platform that does the job that you need - musically - and then leave it at that.

    So many people get into music software and lose all impetus to make music because they're always "trying out" the latest and greatest tools/releases from over-zealous manufacturers who release things at a blinding pace.

    It *is* possible to get a basic set of tools working under Linux for music writing. Such things as Ardour, Rosegarden, etc. are all viable solutions - though I wouldn't encourage you to get involved with Linux for Audio right now if you're finding that you're already not making music because of computer issues.

    Try taking *Just The Basics* out of a package. For example, maybe you don't *need* all the features of Logic, which is getting in the way of your creativity. There is a *lot* of 'keeping up with the Joneses' facter in the musical instrument business these days.

    If you want cheap, easy to use, and more importantly PRODUCTIVE software, try the fringe:

    Raw Material Software Tracktion [rawmaterialsoftware.com]

    Cheap, works, is easy to use, and easy to configure.

    If you're on the Mac, try:

    Intuem [intuem.com]

    But always remember this: If you're not writing music at a pace with which you are satisfied, your music tools are not working.

    Scale them back as much as possible. Just because "Joe DJ" uses "Brand X" does not mean that you need to go through the nightmare/headach configuration that they went through only to end up getting 'endorsed' ...
    • I totally agree with this sentiment. The only windows box I still have is used for digital audio. I have Cakewalk 9 and Soundforge 6 on Windows2K and I've had that set-up for quite sometime, and I have no plans to change it anytime soon (mostly becuase moving to Mac would cost me $4-5K). Cakewalk has some quirks (and I don't know if Sonar works any of them out), but it's done me right and is a great sequencer/digital audio application, although you really do need SoundForge or equivalent to round it out.

  • Best Mac solution (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jargonCCNA ( 531779 )
    Your best bet for a Mac is using ProTools. Pick a major studio and they use ProTools. A Perfect Circle used it for Mer de Noms, I know that for damn sure. As far as artists that I'm pretty sure use it goes, the list is pretty long... Zwan, Trent Reznor, D'Angelo, any pop group, any hip-hop group... it's really popular because it's so damn good. Of course, it does cost about as much as the computer itself, but it's totally worth it.
    • Pro tools has very limited midi abilities. It's mainly used for recording. Also, there's not nearly as many plugins available for it, and the ones that are available are expensive.
      • On mac there are far more plugins than there are on the PC. But regarding the lack of plugins... what more do you need? Good EQs? Compressors/Limiters? Reverbs? They are all available and sound great!

        The Midi is a little limited, but if you have a Mac- just use Logic Platinum on running at the same time, or another sequenecer, and use the IAC bus to get them together (or whatever macs use these days). Either that or use Mac/MSP on the side if you want Midi functionality.
        I've rarely encountered that Prot

    • ProTools is prohibitably expensive for a home studio steup, works with less audio interfaces, and use a more proprietary plugin architeture.

      ProTools is really more of a post-production tool for mid- to large-size studios. For most home studio it's rather overkill IMHO.

      Pick a major studio and they use ProTools

      well yeah because their clients are vocalists and live musicians, so they need a multitracker. I think most of us music-making Slashdotters are more likely to be MIDI-oriented.

    • Pro Tools is certainly a great tool for post production work, especially if you need to comp a lot of vocal or solo section takes. It's sound quality is superb, but very 'digital',you can hear which pop songs have been recorded with Pro Tools because of the souless feel, usually accompanied by excessive use of auto-tune on the vocals. Theres also an anti-Pro-Tools backlash slowly growing, I have seen a couple of albums (e.g. as DFFD by The Dictators) which proudly claim that it WAS NOT recorded in Pro Tools
  • I've experimented with various pieces of PC audio software and the most trouble free easy-to-use toys I've found are:

    CakeWalk Sonar XL - This is for MIDI and digital audio. Also has a great set of plugins based on DirectX. You can also use the VST plugins via a software adaptor.

    Propellerheads Reason - An absolutely wicked piece of software used primarily for electronic music. But works great for "non-electronic" music as well.

    I've had many instability issues with ProTools on the PC platform and wouldn

  • Check out the latest Linux Journal (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Linux_ho ( 205887 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @10:02AM (#5701163) Homepage
    Twenty sound applications for Linux were reviewed, both free and non-free
  • I use SSL's new C200, but then I work for them ;-)

    But more seriously I'd suggest ProTools on the Mac. Yes I know its not PC, but it just works. PC's just can't cope with the data I/O properly, whilst Mac's do it no problem.

    I was at a Tangering Dream concert about 6 weeks ago and they had at least 3 Mac's and 1 PC helping with sequencing - guess what - 1/2 throught the PC threw a hissy fit and BSOD-ed. The Mac's just kept on rolling for the full 3 hours.

    Right tool for the right job and all that.
    • But more seriously I'd suggest ProTools on the Mac. Yes I know its not PC, but it just works. PC's just can't cope with the data I/O properly, whilst Mac's do it no problem.

      I can't believe you just suggested a PC can't handle the relatively minute demands of digital audio. Maybe if you were recording to floppy disks, this would be true, but even an older PC will have no trouble handling a couple dozen tracks at 24/96. (Do the math.)

      - A.P.
      • Seriously, i think he's right. I've used macs and PCs for audio, and the macs are far less fussy. For one thing that company knows the hardware with a mac (for protools this is a big deal) and can work out the bugs. On PC it's all over the map.

        My PC running Protools is so unstable, even after reformatting and taking everything out of it. I can only get a few tracks to record at once reliably, and it falls out of sync all the time. The macs on the other hand, seem to just work for the most part. I don't ca
        • The reason that PCs aren't stable with Pro tools is that Digi releases shit PC software. Their focus is clearly with the Macintosh, and they completely ignore their PC users. The feature set of the Mac version is more complete when compared to the PC version. It has nothing to do with hardware, and everything to do with software...digi just spends more time, money and effort on the Mac side. If you'd like more information on the problems and missing features that PC users have with Digi software, check
        • I have a friend who's thinking of buying a Digi 002 and a PC to go with it. DigiDesign have some pretty specific specs for a PC running Windows [digidesign.com] - basically, a minimum of 2GHz.

          Since I want to save my friend from making any mistakes - can you tell me the specs of the PC you're using for ProTools? I mean, if a 2GHz machine is still going to give trouble, I want to tell him to stay the hell away from that route...

          • I know that the Digi001 runs on 400mhz+ machines. I am running it on an 850mhz PIII, 256mb memory, etc.
            The Digi002 may have steeper requirements, and yea, a 2ghz machine would rock protools. There's a thread on the DUC (http://duc.digidesign.com) about building a machine for less than $700 USD for running protools really well. It's actually more like a 400 dollar machine if you have some CD drives, cases, etc.

            I am going to get a G4 Tower, dual 1.25 or 1.42ghz with 1gb memory however. I just see that Ma
            • Thanks for the response. I tried, but I can't convince my friend away from a PC - I'd be trying Ardour [sourceforge.net] if it were me, but then I'm more into the tech than the audio...

              That thread on the DUC is helpful, thanks.

              I was curious about this issue, because Wakko's post above is correct that just to pump the audio data alone should not require much performance. I did some more research, and found that the big reason for the Mac's better performance in this area is the G4 CPU's floating point performance, which

      • In theory yes. But the if you windows it....

        If you run the Linux variants you'll get a better base to start on ..

        http://www.linuxdj.com/audio/lad/eventszkm2003.p hp 3

        --
        Martin
      • I can't believe you just suggested a PC can't handle the relatively minute demands of digital audio. Maybe if you were recording to floppy disks, this would be true, but even an older PC will have no trouble handling a couple dozen tracks at 24/96. (Do the math.)

        The OP talked about "data I/O" but that might not be what he really meant. The problem most people run into is that when trying to play back a multi-track composition with a bunch of effects on each track, being calculated in real time, you can q


  • - Cakewalk Sonar (for sequencing & MIDI)
    - Cool edit (for wav alteration)

  • Pay attention to the question (Score:4, Interesting)

    by divbyzero ( 23176 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @10:26AM (#5701435) Journal
    Groovemaneuver asked for recommendations about a specific subcategory of music software, the digital audio workstation. A DAW is generally defined as a multitrack audio recorder and editor, usually supporting a nondestructive editing model and some facility for applying audio effects. While MIDI sequencing and notation support may be found in some current DAW packages, they have very little to do with the DAW concept.

    As such, ProTools, Nuendo, and Ardour are true DAWs, while Cubase, Logic, and Sonar are hybrid DAW/sequencers. Hybrids inherently have to make compromises between two sets of goals, and their interfaces usually suffer as a result of it. They might be better value for your money if you need both sets of features, but if you find them awkward to use, that might well be why.

    An alternative to software DAWs is the standalone hardware variety, such as the Roland VS series. As dedicated hardware gear, they're less flexible, but have a more optimized interface which you might find gets in your way less. You can get used ones for the same cost as the software would be.

    Sorry I can't recommend a particular package; I'm in the process of looking as well. I will say that Sonar is stronger in its MIDI sequencing features than its DAW ones.
    • Actually, if you read his introduction, you'll notice that he "started with MIDI-only" gear and has gradually migrated to Mac/Logic Audio, which is, oddly enough, a hybrid DAW/sequencer. Assuming that he still has a pile of MIDI gear, it's entirely reasonable to presume that he's looking for a platform that will handle both. I would venture a guess that he, like many working composers, vaguely refers to the whole MIDI/audio package as a DAW.

      Aside from a dwindling pool of folk musicians and Scholzian synth-
      • You may well be right that he needs both, but the fact that his past experience is made up of dedicated MIDI and hybrid programs doesn't mean that his future has to as well; after all, he wouldn't be asking for suggestions if he was happy with what he already had.

        The effectiveness of a given user interface is very much a personal assessment, so if you find the likes of Sonar to be a natural environment then more power to you. With the exception of the new multitrack piano roll, I found Cakewalk a better e

        • Incorporating DAW and MIDI sequencing into the same application is certainly not the only way to achieve synchronization between them. MTC and SMPTE are well-established, widely supported standards for synchronizing separate programs or even separate hardware components.

          MTC and SMPTE has rather low resolution and hard to work with in my experiences (which aren't very much BTW LOL), I don't know about you but I have very little luck syncing diiferent apps internally via MTC or SMPTE. That's why new pr

          • You make a lot of good points, too many for me to answer at once, so please bear with me.

            First and foremost, I agree that your choice of tool will inevitably influence how you work and thus what you can produce. Even the various types of graphics programs you cite are not completely transparent in this regard. One side of me wants to argue that some types of applications impose less structure than others (for instance, a linear sequencer is less limiting than a tracker), but since they all make *some* so
    • groovemaneuver said... I started with a MIDI-only Atari, moved to a PC with Logic Audio, and now have a Mac with Logic Audio.

      He wanted squencers, that's what he used all along, not multitracking DAW.

      As to the notion of hybrids, it's redundant IMHO. All audio production software are hybrids technically. Pure MIDI sequencers are virtually extinct nowadays, so it's sufficent to say sequencer since it implies that the software would be MIDI-oriented but still provide some level of linear audio tracks supp


      • You're very correct that it's hard to find a MIDI-only sequencer these days. I'm just trying to say that that's a *bad* thing.

        Just because your telephone doesn't come with a built-in toaster doesn't mean it's any worse at being a phone. Certainly there are a least a few people out there who would benefit from being able to make toast while calling their friends, but that doesn't mean everyone who buys a phone should have to deal with a hybrid interface.

        Sure, that's a silly example. But more subtly, not
  • n-Track: Low Cost Multitrack

    Program Highlights:
    • Price: $45 ($69 for 24 bit soundcards)
    • Desc: n-Track Studio is an audio & MIDI multitrack recorder for Windows 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000 & XP
    • n-Track Studio allows to use your computer as a complete recording studio. You can record and playback a virtually unlimited number of audio and MIDI tracks, depending on your computer's speed
    • Realtime Audio effects can be added to each track, to the master, group or aux channels non-destructively: you can adju

  • Stabilise your existing set-up (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Andy_R ( 114137 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @11:30AM (#5702075) Homepage Journal
    You haven't explained what your problem with Logic is, or why you moved from Logic on PC to Logic on Mac, but I suspect you are trying to keep up with the latest version and installing every plug-in you can get your hands on (after all, this IS a geek site, right?).

    My advice is to simply stop trying to be at the bleeding edge of technology and concentrate on making music.

    Any recent computer is capable of things that professional studios could only dream about 10 years ago. Most of the albums you own were made with equipment that geeks like us would now consider hideously obsolete, but that didn't get in the way of the music!

    You don't need to be cutting edge. You don't need to have the latest versions. You don't need the latest hot software. What you do need is stability and ease of use, and the easiest way to get this is to strip your current set-up down to basics, and then don't mess with it!

    Throw away all your unstable plug-ins, sell off any troublesome hardware, and go back to the most recent completely stable version of Logic that you have. Set yourself very cautious a limit on the number of audio tracks you will use, and only use plug ins when absolutely necessary. Treat your recording set-up as a piece of consumer hardware - it's complete and non-upgradable as of now.

    For the record, I own (legitimately) Logic Audio Platinum, but make most of my music (or at least get it to the demo stage) in the highly restricted free version, Logic Fun.

    However, if you want to explore new methods of sound scupting, I highly recommend MetaSynth (www.metasynth.com), this is a package that can do incredible things with sound, is stable, has a thriving user community, and is very well supported by it's developers, U&I Software.
  • The next generation of Rosegarden is shaping up quite nicely. I only use it as a MIDI sequencer, but it has support for JACK and LADSPA giving it interesting audio capabilities. The only machine I own that runs Linux does so simply because of Rosegarden (anyone working on an ALSA compatability layer for the BSD's?).

    http://www.all-day-breakfast.com/rosegarden/

    BEAST/BSE is also good fun, but I would hesitate to recommend it to anyone for serious use as it's still pretty raw.

    http://beast.gtk.org/

    Chris

  • Nope (Score:2)

    by 0x0d0a ( 568518 )
    Is there Linux software that can reasonably fill the shoes of Logic, Nuendo, or Sound Forge?

    No. There are a lot of incomplete Linux sound projects, but no really good projects for what you're doing on the order of gimp/gnumeric/mozilla.

    I'd love to find a working software synth that I could *compile* under Linux...
    • Timidity? I think there's a couple forks around with Soundfont support, as well. It's not as nice as the newer PC/Mac softsynths, but it works and is free. I think the current version is called Timidity++, and is being developed/maintained by someone in japan. Ah.. link here [onicos.com] (http://www.onicos.com/staff/iz/timidity/).
      • Oh, sorry. Yeah, I use timidity, and it's a lovely piece of software, but I didn't mean MIDI softsynth -- I was talking about software implementations of synthesizers -- you know, those funky devices that have little sliders and things that you can move around to make unusual sounds? Electronica folks love em?
        • Inthe Dos/windows world things like Fast Tracker and Inerta Tracker would let you creat sounds as you describe.
  • WinGroove [rim.or.jp] - it might not seem like much, but it is a kickass software synth.
  • Since you mentioned pro level and audio, the only choice I could recommend is Digi's ProTools for the audio. It's a mature product and common to the majority of studios. As far as Mac or Win goes I think they're more stable on the Mac side (check their user forums).

    For MIDI, your choices would then be to either use the built in MIDI sequencer in PT or to find a third party seq that interfaces with Digi's DAE. Logic and Cubase were always at the forefront. Again, check user forums and see what the feedback
  • I've used Digital Perfomer [motu.com] and ProTools [digidesign.com] quite a bit. And I love Digital Performer. MOTU started Performer as MIDI only, then many years ago crossed over into digital audio with Digital Performer.

    The interface is beautiful and flexible, and it works with lots and lots of hardware. And while you'll see Trent Reznor listed on the digidesign site as a ProTools user, a friend of mine worked for him and much of the project was done in Digital Perfomer.

  • For Hassle Free Studio, go turnkey (Score:3, Informative)

    by LoveMe2Times ( 416048 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @05:53PM (#5705741) Homepage Journal

    Want a hassle free, no dickering with the technology studio? Get a turnkey solution. Any of the major music chains like Guitar Center or Sam Ash will sell you one. Additionally, you can go to Carillon Audio [carillonusa.com] to get PC systems. They are the defacto industry standard. Even if you don't need a complete turnkey system, go to Carillon for the computer; they have components that work right for audio. When I switched to a Carillon system from a homebrew PC, all my tech problems went away.

    As far as software, unfortunately, there is no Right Choice these days for PC. Now that Logic is Mac only, there's nothing really competitive left. You come down to choosing between limitations. Here's my breakdown of the major software kits:

    1) Logic Audio. Best all around. Has very competent built in Score editor. Has very nice built in synthesizers (some for extra $$). Comes with the best, most comprehensive set of plugins. Its MIDI programmability is outstanding, and the integration with SoundDiver is very nice. Logic Control is top notch. Very customizable (also complex because of this), interface is cluttered compared to other programs. Will work with TDM systems, if you can afford it. A lot of people use Logic as a front end to DigiDesign (ie ProTools) hardware. Can't be beat for the price if you actually use all of the components. Note that many shortcomings compared to other programs have been addressed in the latest version (6.0).

    2) ProTools. If you get LE, you only get 32 tracks. That's *mono* tracks; so only 16 stereo. If you're working with synths that make stereo output, this is a severe, cannot be overstated limitation compared to all other programs. To get around this limitation, you have to fork over for a TDM system, which is $5-$10K on the low end. Otherwise, LE is great pricewise because it's free with hardware, which is hard to beat. Best audio editing capabilities all around. Studio standard, and LE has full compatability with big studio rigs. Gotta watch for Mac/PC compatability (it's easy to do, but a lot of engineers don't even realise PT runs on PCs, so they never click the check-box. This has been a real PITA for me). No score editing, MIDI is mediocre, uses a different plugin format. Even the big rigs have pretty harsh limitations on inserts/sends per channel (5/5) compared to Logic (16/16). Cleanest interface (IMO). If you don't need the MIDI/Score/Synthesizer stuff from Logic, LE definitely has the best price/performance. Oh, and 6.0 supports ReWire, I understand, and 6.0 will be available for Windows in a couple more months, I guess.

    3) Cubase. A real bear to configure. I still don't have it properly recognizing my audio hardware. I don't use it much because of this. It's got nice audio editing features, it has an interesting feature to link multiple machines together to run bigger projects (I haven't tried it, so I don't know if it really works). I've never tried MIDI with it, although there's no score editor. The interface is clean, but I find it very constraining. Logic is very customizable, and PT LE just works for me (so I don't care that it's not too customizable), Cubase's interface just grates me the wrong way and I can't fix it. So I wind up using Logic and PT LE. Also, I need missing features, so it can't replace Logic for me.

    4) Nuendo. Cubase's big brother, it's expensive. Targeted at movie/tv/ maybe radio/post production houses. Never used it, but as I understand it, has lots of project management features. ProTools 6.0 TDM has a lot of these features; things like different logins for different engineers using the system, and remembering preferences for each one. Very useful in a pro environment, not so much at home. Otherwise, same general pros and cons as Cubase. Nuendo 2 and Cubase SX are based on the same engine, I think.

    5) Cakewalk Sonar. Main plus: it's cheap, and works well for MIDI. Does have a score editor, I think. Does not support ASIO, whic
  • The good news is that the home studio market on both the PC and the Mac are booming, bigtime.

    My favorite on the Mac side is definitely Logic Audio. Full support of everything a home user might need for a relatively low price. Pro Tools is decent, but the package that gets sold to home users (anything other than tdm or HD) is really underpowered and overpriced. The big players that swear by protools have $100,000 setups with tons of ridiculously expensive plugins, and THAT is why they like it. My advice
  • You don't say what kind of Mac, what OS, or anything else that would allow for specific suggestions...

    I'm running Cubase SL on Mac OS X for multitrack digital audio editing, and I like it a lot, in a way that I really didn't like Cubase 3.5. (I didn't upgrade to 4 or 5 because they didn't run on OS X.) It's basically a whole new program. It seems to be very reliable, and the UI is much cleaner and easier to use.

    Having said that, I don't use any pro hardware yet, so I can't say for sure that there won't be
  • Creative Audigy 2 Platinum.
    • Creative Audigy 2 Platinum.

      Actually it's not that funny, Audigy/Live a serious package at its price.

      Audigy 2 Platinum comes bundled with Cubasis VST and Acid Music I believe (both of which are lite versions of their big brothers but still very powerful for their class), plus loads of other software (I think MixMeister is also included).

      The card itself has very low latency for a consumer product, relatively low noise floor too. ASIO driver for Audigy/Live is readily available and very stable.

      M

      • I've got one and my problem is that it's too sensitive to bus timing issues. My VIA chipset motherboard doesn't have the best busmastering in the world and in specific circumstances it causes the card to splutter when playing sound and transferring files to a firewire device (my iPod). You'd think it would have the world's greatest buffer for those tasks where low latency isn't as important.

        Maybe I'd be seriously suggesting it if I had an nForce2 chipset motherboard.

        • You know I always wonder how well the nForce 2 MCP's audio circuity will suit for audio production needs.

          I just recommended my landlord to pick up an nForce2 mobo (he was gonna go with a KT400 mobo). It's all setup but no audio stuff on it yet. Maybe we'll give the MCP a test drive this weekend.

  • Weird... (Score:2, Informative)

    by i0wnzj005uck4 ( 603384 )
    So many audio people, so little mac.

    Anyway, everyone's pretty much mentioned the important stuff, but they left out Ableton Live. A pal of mine owns a license, and lets me play with it from time to time. Great little software package, and I hear it interfaces with the Propellerheads' Reason, though neither of us own Reason so I couldn't speak on the usefulness of that.

    Also, search for Deck and Peak. They come in LE versions, for $99 at the Apple store (or cheaper online, if you dare to Google); while a

  • I started with a MIDI-only Atari, moved to a PC with Logic Audio, and now have a Mac with Logic Audio.

    And you used Notator on Atari? That was Logic's ancestor. So in that case, you used the Logic family all along, and it's probably what you're comfortable with. Stick with it unless you have a compelling reason to switch to another software sequecer.

    The problem is that I seem to spend more time trying to get the software and hardware working than I do actually making music.

    MIDI problem? Audio i

    • Have you tried Acid Pro 4? The latest patch level seems to run pretty well with VST instruments (4.0b right now). Don't use Win9x, ME, or XP. You need Windows 2000. Also, if you're using a Creative Labs or EMU APS sound card, you NEED the kX project [kxproject.com] drivers. With the kx driver, Windows 2000, Acid Pro 4, and two or three softsynths, I can get down to 5ms latency on my Athlon XP1800+. It helps if you turn off all the user interface effects in Windows, like scrolling and fading menus, mouse shadow (if po
      • Yes I'm using Acid Pro 4.0. It still doesn't support VST/i natively. Which wrapper did you use?

        The Reason + Acid sync problem is purely a sync issue. I made Acid send master MIDI clock to Reason using internal MIDI loopback (via MIDI Yoke) but it didn't work well (and I didn't think it was going to work anyways), it has nothing to do with sounda card or drivers. I upgraded the mobo since then so I'll try again.

        I frequently hear this "use Win2K over XP" argument from the PC audio proudction community. Pers
        • It still doesn't support VST/i natively.

          Are you referring to VST audio plugins? I'm talking about VST softsynths like FM7, Triangle II, and Absynth. I have used VST Freeverb in Acid before (FreeverbX would always crash), but I don't remember which wrapper I used.

          The Reason + Acid sync problem is purely a sync issue.

          Ah, I see. I thought you meant there was too much latency from software to sound card. My MIDI keyboard outputs a time signal, but I just can't get Acid to sync to it. Rebirth would ju
  • On another note:

    I'm a little bit concern about the fragmentation of the many multichannel audio protocols out there for internal routing.... Rewire, VST Link, TDM, maybe Logic has it's own too.... none of them will interconnect with another directly, and if any kind of wrappers are to become available, it'll probably introduce massive latency issues (since all these protocols deals with many channels of real-time audio + MIDI too).

    Like all those proprietary physical protocols (eg. ADAT LightPipe, Roland R
  • Computer Music [computermusic.co.uk] may be useful to you. I'm not going to start writing an advertising spiel for them, but I find it quite useful (plus it comes with free plugins :)
  • I gave up on the PC side, and got a Yamaha AW16G. It works much better, and is engineered for the job.
    Since the sound cards for PC's are aimed at the gamer, they don't give a rats arse about studio quality sound.
    You can buy a premium sound card, but.. it costs a premium. You're still stuck with a non real time OS with both Windows and Linux (and Mac I guess) so
    its the wrong OS for the job. Several companies make dedicated audio recording stations that work, and don't bluescreen, or get viruses on em.
    check
  • have a laptop, p4 1.9 ghz running win2k, has built-in firewire.

    as far as pro gear goes, i have a motu 828 firewire card and a roland 2 port midi interface, plus the m-audio oxygen 8 controller. all of this runs spiffy using cubase sx, reason, or ableton live 2, very low latency (512 k buffer or about 6 msec output latency) running a fair number of software synths.

    in terms of DAW software, i prefer cubase SX because although is not quite as flexible as logic for audio routing, the (esp audio) editing is ab

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