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Censorship

When N2H2 Mistakenly Calls Your Website 'Porn'? 64

Posted by Cliff from the mistaken-identity dept.
Scott Auge asks: "Should one be able to sue a filtering company for libel? After seeing an article top) about filtering software for sites, I decided to take a look at how mine is listed. Upon punching my site in at this N2H2 form, I see it listed as pornography. One look at my site, and you will know it is far from pornography. doesn't seem quite right to me. Opinions?"
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When N2H2 Mistakenly Calls Your Website 'Porn'? More

When N2H2 Mistakenly Calls Your Website 'Porn'?

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  • Here's what I wrote to them (Score:5, Funny)

    by PD ( 9577 ) * <slashdotlinux@pdrap.org> on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @02:46PM (#5845638) Homepage Journal
    I'm the owner of www.pdrap.org and I'm offended that I am not listed in your database. I suggest that you put me in the category of "subversive liberal" but if you don't have a match for that, then pornography or foul language will do. Thanks.

  • You can only sue for wreckless disregard for the truth, and this doesn't look wreckless, nor does it look like you're being caused any harm.

  • I tried to help (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Joe the Lesser ( 533425 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @02:50PM (#5845687) Homepage Journal
    I sent them a note with their revision thing explaining that your site wasn't porn. Maybe if you bug them enough they'll look at it again. How long have you had this address? Maybe the database is old.

  • Not porn? (Score:5, Funny)

    by eviltypeguy ( 521224 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @02:50PM (#5845692)
    Not porn?

    In the words of some bender-like entity: "Look at the schematics of that revised algebaric evaluator. Hubba, hubba!"

  • Libel? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Jerf ( 17166 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @02:51PM (#5845694) Journal
    Is it libel? You decide [findlaw.com]. Read the whole bit.

    Also see defamation [findlaw.com].

    This is the best you can get from Slashdot. As usual, for a real answer, you're going to need to consult a lawyer. I especially note that slander/libel is done on the state level according to findlaw, so since you don't give your state of residence, and because few if any posters are likely to understand the details of interstate legal interactions for things like this (including me!), it's probably impossible for even a lawyer who happens to be cruising Slashdot giving out free advice (also known as "casting pearls before swine") to give you a solid answer.
    • Doesn't even matter, really. You can sue someone because they caused you harm. You don't have to show that they broke some law to do it. Just show how much monetary harm they caused you.
      • umm... if they didn't do anything wrong, you can't win a judgement. i can't go and sue because a video game machine wouldn't let me play because i didn't put in money, can i?

        it caused me harm... i was bored for a while
        • There's no monetary harm in your example.

          For another example, it isn't against the law to have an accident. But you still have to pay for the damages.
          • you only have to pay for the damages if you're most at fault (generally)...

            most of the popular reasons for being at fault include violating traffic laws (going too fast for conditions, being in the improper lane, running a red light, hitting a pedestrian, etc)

            as a more prudent example... lets say you and i operate cd stores. You chose to sell cds at your stores with a smaller markup than I do. You're still making a profit on cds. This causes me monetary harm, since customers will go to your store instead
            • There has to be harm, and usually there has to be some level of negligence.

              It varies from state to state, but a rule of thumb is something like : "did the defendent act in a way that a reasonable and prudent person would act"... Other things come into play such as "could the defendant have reasonably prevented the harm", and "did the defendent take all necessary steps to mitigate further harm once they learned of the harm, or potential for harm".

              It's a lot of factors, there are probably some I am forgetti

  • Use the Review Site button (Score:5, Informative)

    by SoCalChris ( 573049 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @02:51PM (#5845698) Journal
    Right next to where it classiffied your site there is a button saying "Review Site". Clcik on that and there is an option to tell them why the site should be unblocked, or noto labled as Porn. Doesn't seem to hard to me...

    • What if you run an online store, and have been blocked for years without knowing?

      This product could have been responsible for quite a few lost sales - shouldn't this be compensated for?

      • shouldn't this be compensated for?

        Definitely not.

    • Un-American! (Score:5, Funny)

      by Beryllium Sphere(tm) ( 193358 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @04:56PM (#5847354) Journal
      Are you seriously suggesting that someone use a free, quick, common-sense solution when instead they could spend five figures and five years on a lawsuit?

      Attitudes like yours are the reason we have so many skeletal lawyers collapsing from hunger in the street.

      I don't know how they do things in *your* country, but *here* we drive our SUVs straight to the attorney no matter what happens.

      (It's a joke, son)

  • Perhaps... (Score:4, Funny)

    by misfit13b ( 572861 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @03:01PM (#5845808)
    they were making a suggestion as to what to add to get more traffic.

  • You think that's bad ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by speleo ( 61031 ) * on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @03:09PM (#5845883) Homepage
    ... mine's labled as "sports". WTF...

  • Actually, this might be a good thing.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by rritterson ( 588983 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @03:13PM (#5845934)
    Since something like 80% of the net traffic is porn related, maybe you'll actually get more traffic with it listed this way.

    I suggest you change your page title to "scat titty licker teen pussy horse hardcore" to amplify this effect.

  • Virtual hosted? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by wowbagger ( 69688 ) * on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @03:16PM (#5845976) Homepage Journal
    Is your site virtual hosted? If so, then you may be sharing a server with a porn site.

    So, if IP address s.y.z.a serves both your site and www.pervertsinculverts.com, then you will be besmirched by them, since you share the same server.

    It sucks, but then, all content filtering like this sucks.
  • How many people would need to review [n2h2.com] http://www.riaa.org [riaa.org] as porn before they'd rate it as such? Thereafter, one could start asking them to block home pages for legislators who voted for DMCA, Microsoft, whoever we don't like. If there were enough traffic, perhaps the slashdot effect be a powerful lobby for a nice little blacklist.
  • and I've pictures of boobies on it!

    Yeah!

  • They do that to 100,000s of sites (Score:3, Informative)

    by lightspawn ( 155347 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @03:46PM (#5846405) Homepage
    Google indexes 3 billion pages. Most censorware companies claim to review every banned page manually. Guess what? There's no way to make the numbers work. They rely on crudes rules of thump. Which by definition sometimes fail.

    Check out my introduction to censorware [lightspawn.org]. Most slashdotters will already be familiar with all of this except maybe some of the arguments.

    P.S. Yes, I wrote "thump". Intentionally.

  • and put up some naked chicks. You know you were thinking about it anyway.

    Go on! Get to it, I'm not going to wait all day.

    Oh, who am I kidding... I will too wait all day. :(
  • might have gone they day they scanned your page. I quit using webrings completely, because people complained about the places they might be directed to (from my page).

  • to porn or not to porn... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by WegianWarrior ( 649800 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @04:01PM (#5846607) Journal

    ...or rather, how do they do the rating anyway?

    Just for the thrill, I ran one of my own websites* thru the system, and this is what I got:
    The Site: won-tolla.future.easyspace.com is categorized by N2H2 as: Web Page Hosting/Free Pages

    The site you submitted resides on a Web page hosting server that provides Web page hosting for their users such as homepages that share a common domain. These sites include those provided by ISPs, University/education servers, free Web page hosts, etc. Although many of these Web page providers post rules and regulations for content, they do not always adequately monitor this content. Users often abuse Web page services by posting offensive content under multiple pseudonyms.
    Now, this site contains stuff that can be labeled, among other things, pornographic. It also contains a lot of other stuff, but thats beside my point right now.

    My point is; they seem to rate domains on what you're most likely to find there - not the induvidual sites.

    *)The same that is showing up there, just under my nick.

  • google cache listed as "loop hole site" (Score:4, Informative)

    by Khopesh ( 112447 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2003 @04:10PM (#5846732) Homepage Journal
    it's even an example on the page explaining filter categories [n2h2.com]:
    Loopholes
    Sites filtered because they open a loophole that can be exploited to access pages which would otherwise be filtered out from your service. Unless this category is selected, the system's Internet Content Filtering protection can be compromised.

    Examples:
    www.kaza.com
    www.triangleboy.com
    http://www.google.com/search?q=cache
    clicking on an example pops up a little warning image [n2h2.com] that states:
    WARNING!
    The page you are trying to access is an example of the potentially objectionable control that is filtered by our technology. Certain users may find the material on those pages offensive.

    N2H2 does not endorse these web sites, and assumes no responsibility for their content.

    The link you just clicked has been disabled for the benefit of our younger visitors.
    • yeah, i just figured that out; google cache gets around the filtering, thus it has been blocked as a loop hole.

      internet way-back machine (archive.org [archive.org]) is not listed at all.
  • They used to have slashdot listed as "profanity" and "message boards". I guess enough people sent in review requests that they changed it.
  • Baught my domain, threw togeather a quick site and went "live" got to school the next day, "Hey guys come lookee here"
    "Im sorry this site has been blocked for offensive content " 01 Lingere". EH???
  • That's a really good question, but you'll have to ask a lawyer.

    Make sure to report back when you do!
  • Playing around with the URL thingy:

    The Site: www.goatse.cx

    is categorized by N2H2 as:
    Adults Only
    Pornography


    Porn? Are there people out there who get turned on by goatse? o_O
  • Maybe the trouble is a spider who fetches your page, looks at the links, and notices more than 80% of the href point to the same file. GET parameters are different, but maybe their regex don't check that.

    Have you ever noticed that pattern in porn sites?

    80%+ of the links go to http://domain.porn/register

    Maybe it's just that.

    Also, snippets like "Demo", "Contact", "!!! WANTED !!!", "gearing up", "is coming", "files and attach" (all from your site) can be potentially offensive!
  • Hello,

    At my school, we use an N2H2 proxy, and a proxy known as Bess. The N2H2 one is the more modern one, and is used on all the computers.

    On the N2H2 proxy, I have noticed that they often mistakenly block sites for porn. In my opinion, I think there is some bug in their system.

    Their policy remains clear that there is a several step reviewing process before declaring any site unacceptable. But, still, many sites get blocked. If you notice a site that is not porn that is blocked, just send them
    • N2H2 is the company. Bess is their education-focussed product. It's basically identical to Sentian, their corporate-focussed product (at least from the perspective of what it blocks - they use the same underlying database).

      There are many reasons that sites can be rated as porn when they shouldn't be - the most common is when they sit on the same server as a pornographic site. It is difficult for the software to tell that the server has heterogeneous content on it if it is using a single IP address. N2H
  • N2H2 looks like it offers opinions of sites with regards to their content. In their opinion, your site contains/is pornography (which includes content in addition to naked people), and there's a means of asking them to reconsider. People trust N2H2's opinion and choose to not go to sites rated badly.

    ORBS, RBL (or whatever the modern anti-spam analogues are) offer opinions about hosts on the Internet with regards to their mail output. In their opinions, certain open relays spread spam, and there's a mean
  • Excuse me for my ignorance on this particular filter... Could it be parsing the URL in some way that it appears to contain an acronym for some sexual reference? If other sites with extremely low hit counts are filtered as porn, and their URL just happened to have a semi-sexual reference I would be surprised if it didn't.
  • www.over16ok.com
    16th birthday present from dad :D

    not on their list phew....
  • I'm acessing this site at school, and I can't see it! What are you talking about?

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