Last-Mile Solution For A Rural Land Co-op? 312
macguys writes "My community consists of about 150 households spread out over several hundred acres in North Florida. We are far enough away from the nearest city that broadband cable and DSL services don't make it here. We're well organized, and used to working together on projects. We have a lot of home based business offices here and high speed access something that many of my neighbors are hungry for.
We've looked at projects like http://www.magnoliaroad.net and know that others have addressed the issue with 802.11b/g/etc.
There is no big problem getting a T-1 to the community. That part is easy. The hard part is distributing the bandwidth among those here who want to participate. Wireless works in places but in general this land is covered in hardwood and pines and the signal drops off quickly.
We have a long history (community is 25 years old) of working together to solve problems. Running copper or coax is not out of the question if we can find a reasonable way of distributing the bandwidth.
Any suggestions are welcome."
Laser (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:A first for the /. editors (Score:3, Interesting)
Fiber (Score:5, Interesting)
I would highly suggest fiber as opposed to just about anything else--- it takes work to install (dig ditch, we put in conduit, then pulled fiber through it), and it requires a special terminiation kit, but the results are extremely rewarding.
~geogeek
With respect to the T1... (Score:4, Interesting)
T1s aren't significantly faster than good DSL service, and can be significantly slower than cable 'net access. For about 20 times the price.
Now, you may have no other option, but do shop around. You won't regret it.
Re:Long-reach ethernet (Score:4, Interesting)
IIRC, the maximum run for 100baseT ethernet is 100 metres with cat 5 between switches/machines/etc.
The Cisco system must introduce some sort of line amplifier to send data that far, so you'd have to have a pair of them, one on each end. The signals and cable setup itself would be identical to standard ethernet, just with a lot more power.
Re:Easy (Score:3, Interesting)
Bandwidth (Score:4, Interesting)
Ruby Ranch Model (Score:5, Interesting)
Alternate Topology with 802.11 (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been running the system between my office and my apartment (1/4 mile away) through trees for almost a year. I'm using off-the-shelf Linksys access points (1st gen, at that) and antennas I bought from a place in Canada. The access point in my apartment is programmed to be a client, and the "master node" just acts like a regular access point.
The system work well through trees, though I do tend to get a lot of noise during rain storms. I don't have rooftop access in my apartment, so I'm actually shooting the signal out of my apartment window.
If I had the remote on the roof with line of sight, I'm told the system will reach 2 miles.
The office access point has an 8db omnidirectinal antenna the focuses the energy into a flat disk. The remote has a panel-style antenna the focuses the energy into a 20degree cone. You don't have to be too picky with the aim, I can turn the panelmount 45 degrees either way.
Had it not worked, I was going mount the access point in a pelican case, bolt the panel antenna onto the outside, and drill a hole for the pigtail and the ethernet cable.
I also had plans to run power over the spare 2 pair of wires in the cat-5 jack. Rather than one of those hundred dollar POE kits, I was planning on boosting the voltage at house end, and have a 5V voltage regulator ($5 at radio shack) on the other.
Hell when I finally get laid off, that's my scheming Dotcom idea.
look to fibre (Score:3, Interesting)
If not - look into incorporating your own telco and see if you can get the local authorities on side.
Physical installation will be expensive - but if _can_ look at a fiber link. Last I checked 6 conductor single mode fiber for overhead was only a wee bit more expensive than copper. Underground will probably be similarly expensize.
Last I checked there were ethernet to fiber drivers that ran 100 base-t (2/3 of a T1) for 50 miles and cost under $1000 USD. (allied telesyn for example). This issue here is that the capital cost is not out of line and the capacity is awesome.
With so much capacity you should be able to run local telephone dial up service and TV signals on the same fibre (but I haven't researched how). I just know there is a ton of bandwidth available.
Furthermore the infrastructure if it is put in properly will be viable for the forseeable future. I'd say over 100 years - but with technology who knows - maybe within 5 years something comes along. You have to take that chance. It is better to spend a little extra now and have something that is solid.
T1 will probably not be adequate for your users. But you can look at backbone links and if you do it right - other communities might join you and you can put the big ugly telcos out of their beauracratic misery.
Good luck.
similar situation (Score:3, Interesting)
We're probably going to use a combination of cat5e in the ground (fiber was too expensive for us) and wireless (802.11g) with good antennas and maybe some mesh technology (if it's reliable and easy to maintain.) The bandhwidth shaping tools that I've read about would be nice but the expense is high and it may be one of those situations where it's best to wait for the problem before applying the solution. Good luck!
Re:How I would wire a community. (Score:3, Interesting)
If our building management doesn't get back to us with a good answer (like, we can put antennas on the roof), I'm going to call American Tower.. They have 5 towers on one hill, and one on a rooftop, not far from my office. I hadn't even noticed the 5 towers til I looked it up on their map. Then I was like "Hey, there they are!"
I'm sure there are other providers too, I just don't know any.. I just got lucky when I ran across this one..
Re:Have you tried (Score:5, Interesting)
-j
BushLAN (Score:3, Interesting)
BushLAN is a low cost 'last mile' solution specifically targeted at Internet distribution for rural areas. It uses lower frequencies (VHF) than 802.11. As a consequence the signal propagates further (3-100km). If you have television reception it should work.
I'm not directly affifialted with BushLAN, but I do work in a simliar field within the same country, so I am not completely disinterested.
Microwave and LAN-style wireless (Score:2, Interesting)
I think they had about 8 sites, connected in a ring topology using some Marconi ATM switches [marconi.com] connected via a local ds3 or ethernet connection to the towers.
The toplogy was basically like this:
Customer House---802.11b---Ethernet/Tower--Microwave--Tower /Ethernet--Router/switch--Internet
Depending on the size, either a point to point style network could be configured or a ring style topology. With a ring, you have some level of redundancy.
This works very well for them and allows them to grow the network easily. A starter node shouldn't be that expensive either..so if you can put up a tower or two, you should be in great shape.
The network spans many hundred miles over microwave..so distance really isn't a problem for them.
Good luck, and you should come back in a year or so and let us know what you decided on doing!
Go for it all ... (Score:3, Interesting)
I mean - you could co-op everything - High Speed Internet, Cable TV and Phone for that matter.
While wireless can offer a low-cost solution, it has many potential problems across a geographic area.
The most effective means of distributing high speed access would definitely be to lay fiber. I mean if you decide to dig up the ground, don't screw around with copper this would severely limit you.
Fiber would allow you to really leverage the investment of hacking up that ground - Internet would be easy, a couple of T1's multilinked together and some smart allocations of a class C of public numbers and your off and running (a T3 would be total overkill IMHO).
But you can leverage this investment to allow delivery of Telco service as well.
You could simply order up an ISDN PRI or two and a block of about 300 DID numbers. The best part is that at this level of service - you can get an incredible amount of competition. All calls anywhere for under 2 cents/minute any time - and I mean ANYWHERE and WHENEVER - Free of course within the Co-Op
I recommend using this product from Sphere (www.spherecom.com) I just got certified on this product and am completely AMPed about it. It is a pure IP VOIP product that delivers the station end as regular analog phones. So customers need nothing special at their end.
If you model your distribution method after the Bells model of hubs to CO's etc. - you could really do something very cool here.
New Technology (Score:1, Interesting)
Easy - Don't take it to the last mile. (Score:3, Interesting)
Pick four or five community centers, or even just one, and put a few computers in there. Instant gathering place.
High-speed internet access in every home, you might as well be living in the suburbs. With goats.
-carl
t1 and this... (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.championradio.com/towers.html
and get a 96' tower for under $3000
15dbi ommni antenna from here...
http://www.fab-corp.com/index.htm
and 24dbi parabolic fro the clients...(overkill for less then 1 mile range)
hook up whatever cheap ap you want..wap11 or a wapp54g? and then use the same in client modem
surely the trees arent too high for a 96' tower?