Why Do Computers Still Crash?

geoff lane asks: "I've used computers for about 30 years and over that time their hardware reliability has improved (but not that much), but their software reliability has remained largely unchanged. Sometimes a company gets it right -- my Psion 3a has never crashed despite being switched on and in use for over five years, but my shiny new Zaurus crashed within a month of purchase (a hard reset losing all data was required to get it running again). Of course, there's no need to mention Microsoft's inability to create a stable system. So, why are modern operating systems still unable to deal with and recover from problems? Is the need for speed preventing the use of reliable software design techniques? Or is modern software just so complex that there is always another unexpected interaction that's not understood and not planned for? Are we using the wrong tools (such as C) which do not provide the facilities necessary to write safe software?" If we were to make computer crashes a thing of the past, what would we have to do, both in our software and in our operating systems, to make this come to pass?

Easy

[PerlGuru]

Same reason cars crash.... people ;-)

Whose computers still crash?

[fishbowl]

Crash? What crash?

radagast% uptime
8:56pm up 582 day(s), 12:45, 22 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.01

its simple really

[Miguel de Icaza]

computers crash because$%^!@@@ [NO CARRIER]

Re:Computers don't crash

[BoomerSooner]

That's called job security man!

Re:Simple ...

[cscx]

Actually the Zaurus he mentions crashing in the article runs a roll-your-own Linux kernel... [linuxdevices.com] ;)

because someone was very curious and decided to...

[null-sRc]

*0;

never follow the null pointer they said... what are they hiding there????

Re:Computers don't crash

[UndercoverBrotha]

That sir, is a TRUE statement.

Everyone leaves some code that only they can fix...

My Standards for variables:

_needthis
_needthis1
_x
_uz

etc

Computers don't crash because of bad ethics

[Anonymous Coward]

Atoms! Look! Atoms are everywhere! They're causing the struction of all we hold dear to us! Atoms are to blame!

-Montgomery Burns

Re:Whose computers still crash?

[Anonymous Coward]

load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.01

easy to keep a computer up if you never use it ;)

Re:Computers don't crash

[SILIZIUMM]

Anyway remember, it's not a bug, it's a feature...

Re:And

[UndercoverBrotha]

I never thought of that...although I do confide in my DBA who does the same thing with his procs, derived tables and jobs...he would handle it, I would come back like Swayze and help him out...

Re:Simple ...

[Zach Garner]

I find that is really easy to wrong code. I do it all the time...

Bugs are fun!

[giraphe]

But eliminating bugs would take all the fun out of programming!

Re:Easy

[robfoo]

No, I think you mean other people. :p

99% of all statistics come out of my ass

[SweetAndSourJesus]

14% of all people know that.

Re:Simple ...

[orbbro]

And, when the cocaine that let's YOU do all these things wears off, you'll crash!

Re:Computers don't crash

[Anonymous Coward]

The current issue of Scientific American states that 51% of crashes are due to user error. 15%=software error. 34%=hardware error. Refer to article for further info.

I can tell you why MY computer crashes!

[MATTtheROGUE]

It seems to be one of the most popular things to do is to blame the software creators, or the human operators. Thats not the reason my computer crahes Why does my computer crash? Well, when you spend hours of your day looking at thigs you shouldn't be looking at (wink wink), and other memory consuming things, (chatting, all those programs that even though I disable from starting up [yes, using regedit] still manage to start) just eat away at my computer. And finally, the most important and Sane reason of all. The Underpants Gnomes. They finally figured out what stage two is. Stage 2 part a; Crash My computer, Stage 2 part c; Use the underpants to make profit. Thanks for listening to my rambling post.

Re:Whose computers still crash?

[UserGoogol]

Well... in my day I had to write games with just seven transistors and a piece of cheese! And I thought I was lucky. Kids today. Geez.

Granted, I'm 16, but that's not the point.

Re:AS LONG AS YOU CAN TEST EVERY STATE...

[nukey56]

Now this is just plain wrong, not to start a flame war. We know that i+1 > i for all i, without having to test each case. We are reasonably certain that there are infinite primes, and are sure that PI has an infinite number of digits. Did we compute either to their entirety? No. We can use induction to figure those out. If each interface is built with a proven induction hypothesis, code will never fail. However, code can be overly complex, and people make mistakes, aren't knowledgeable enough to produce said code, and definately don't certify that their code will provide said results. While I do agree with you that you can't test for every case, this doesn't mean that perfect code can't be constructed.

Re:Whose computers still crash?

[Dr. Photo]

Reboot? What reboot?

Now, when was the last time you tested those init scripts? :)

Init scripts? You heathen!!

Rebooting is a special occasion, signalling the coming of the harvest season, or the installation of a new kernel. Accordingly, the High Priest shall bring the system up by hand, typing in the ancient incantations from the sacred scrolls.

Init scripts are for the weak of faith. Let ye not be tempted by the daemons of rc-dot-d!

Re:Simple ...

[quantum bit]

I expect that when I enter in [9], [+], [3], [=] on my calculator it will respond with "12", not "ERROR"

I expect that my calculator will respond with "ERROR" right after I hit [+]. And it doesn't have an [=] button.

/RPN geek

Re:And

[jdray]

Isn't that "restore him from backup?"

Re:And

[guile*fr]

... doing dirty things with clay?

Re:Simple ...

[guile*fr]

I expect that my calculator will respond with "ERROR" right after I hit [+].
too much RPL for ya.... now drop the hp and come with hands in sight

Debian.

[twitter]

Debian [debian.org] tested in every state [debian.org], works good everywhere. I have yet to prove that it does not work anywhere in any way. I can not say the same thing for any other software I've ever run on a PC.

"Most crashes are caused by bad drivers!" (n/t)

[Anonymous Coward]

This message has no text. This page intentionally left blank. This sentence no verb. :)

Re:AS LONG AS YOU CAN TEST EVERY STATE...

[Anonymous Coward]

We know that i+1 > i for all i,

Except when i == 32767 !
(tee hee!)

Re:Simple, yes, for other reasons

[drinkypoo]

Can you imagine a Windows recall?

I must be able to, I'm feeling flushed and my nipples are hard.

Re:Whose computers still crash?

[Guppy06]

"Accordingly, the High Priest shall bring the system up by hand, typing in the ancient incantations from the sacred scrolls."

Would those sacred scrolls, perchance, be small, yellow, and stuck all around the monitor screen?

Re:and

[workindev]

You are acting like you can actually play a decent game on Linux. HINT: Some freeking penguin on a sled doesn't count as a decent game.

Re:Whose computers still crash?

[stwrtpj]

Well... in my day I had to write games with just seven transistors and a piece of cheese! And I thought I was lucky. Kids today. Geez.

You had transistors?? What a spoiled brat. I had only three vaccuum tubes, an abacus, and a photo of ENIAC. And I was grateful!!

Re:In my CompSci class..

[KrispyKringle]

And just when being into computers was starting to get "cool" (think The Matrix, Hackers, or Swordfish) someone like you comes along and start talking about Dungeons and Dragons. There go my chances of getting laid. There go all our chances of getting laid.

Re:And

[killmenow]

He dies.

Re:In my CompSci class..

[nick_davison]

I've been in your game and you're a dick. ;)

Of course I was. I was thirteen at the time, in to D&D and computer programming, and couldn't get any girls.

Had they had video labs at my highschool and file sharing networks, back at the end of the 80s, I'd have been the fat kid making lightsaber noises while waving a broomstick around.

Re:it DOES cause an error

[fucksl4shd0t]

Here in the Slashdot world of "definately" and "righting", I've learned that any posted comment that makes high-school-level grammatical or spelling errors is not worth my time and I immediately skip the post. I've been doing this quite rigorously lately -- blah blah blah "seperate" PAGE DOWN.

You are just asking for it. :) Yes, you are. So here it is:

"high-school-level" should not be hyphenated. That is a High School level grammatical error.

That sound you hear is the toilet flushing your shit away.

Re:Software, complexity, and human nature.

[tabby]

>># You can't prove that most software works.

No-one can be told if this software runs.
You must compile it for yourself.

Re:Touchy subject

[happyhamster]

dear IDIOT

If installation program crashes "on multiple systems" and "at various points", there is a 99.9% chance of bad CD. I bet if you just exchanged the CD it would work just fine. How morons like you are even let near computers, let alone "have a conversation with an IT manager at IBM" is beyond me. Mayber this is the real reason computers crash and IT sucks - CLUELESS IDIOTS LIKE YOU.

jeez

Re:Computers don't crash

[TheOldFart]

Eliminate the user. That takes care of half of the problems...

Re:Whose computers still crash?

[fucksl4shd0t]

Kind of like how my 2 year old daughter carrying dishes to the sink. She's trying to be helpful, but occasionally she drops one.

HEh. My daughter's 4 and she's never accidentally dropped a dish. That doesn't mean she's never broken one, though....

My son's two, and it's impossible to tell if he drops dishes on purpose or on accident, because he does it so much.

Should've named my daughter Linux and my son Windows. Now we're having another one, what should I name him? BSD? What's he gonna do? Sit there and whine about how nobody loves him 'cuase he's the only true eunich left? Or is he gonna spend his time crying because right after he's born they're gonna cut him into three pieces and each person will claim their piece is better than the whole?

Wow, first time I've ever trolled BSD. I feel strangely liberated...

Re: Sorry, but youre only half right!

[Anonymous Coward]

"People write sloppy code that makes them... "

You are half right when you say that.

Any computer will crash as a result of:

Harddisk (or equiv) errors/malfunction. (note that this storage system would need to house the critical files etc)

Core (RAM for non UNIX people) errors/malfunction such as cell failure. When was the last time you checked your core/memory with memtest?

Processor/motherboard malfunction (I'm not talking about BIOS bugs!)

Induction of electric potential due to EMI (Electro magnetic interference). The US military like experimenting with EMI and various technologies.

So you see, computers do crash. But you are half right because a computer can not crash unless it is running software. Only when the computer is expected to do somthing will a crash be able to be observed!

Stable, Fast, or Cheap

[interactive_civilian]

choose any 2.

or something like that...

Re:all systems crash, not just MS

[shish]

It's windows, not even the bugs work properly...

Re:Computers don't crash

[garrulous]

>

Have you ever met a user? They will rip out IDE cables while an OS is being loaded. They're savage, man! They're beasts and there's no proper defense!

Re:Computers don't crash

[garrulous]

" A correct program does not allow a user to enter erroneous data." Name me one program that will keep a user from using the CD tray from acting as a coffee holder.