Teleworking in the UK? 301
neiljt writes "As a UK-based IT worker living about a 90-minute journey from London, I am interested in the idea of working from home, or teleworking. In the UK, however, the take-up of this practice has been less than frantic. My own immediate plan is to find work at home here in the UK, however my ultimate aim would be to find employment, which gives me the freedom to live where I choose. What barriers exist to working in the UK for a non-UK (e.g. US) employer. What about a UK citizen living outside the UK working for a UK or US employer? (Feel free to substitute your country of residence)"
"The arguments will probably be familiar to most here, but I will state them anyway, just to be sure you know how I'm thinking.
Advantages for me:
- Save journey time of 3 hours per day
- Save travel expenses
- Save travel frustration (delays, crowds, mobile phone idiocy, etc.)
- Be fresh and alert when I start work
- Feel better at the end of the working day
- Be at work promptly each day
- Work in a pleasant/relaxed environment
- Ready access to my (large) technical library
- Cost savings
- Office space savings
- Improved productivity
- Increased motivation
- Reduced traffic congestion
- Reduction in total travel and therefore pollution
- Employer needs to monitor quantity and quality of work performed
- Internet connectivity (mine currently limited to 56Kb)
It would be interesting to hear both from employers who support (or would support) this model, and from employees who have successfully negotiated employment at home.
In general, have your experiences been positive? If you have had problems, how have they been resolved? And now that the technology has been available for at least 10 years, will teleworking ever take off in the UK?"
My experience (Score:5, Informative)
A couple of years ago I worked for a fabless semiconductor company coming in to their offices (50 miles away) one day a week and working the rest of the time from home. I was already set up with a cablemodem and PCs, there was no problem doing the actual work and keeping in touch by telephone. So "the problems" have "been solved", in IT-type work.
All of your advantages seem realistic, a disadvantage you'll probably have to add is to have to carefully manage your motivation. I found that a phone call and a chat would cheer me up and get me going if the news was positive, more often in that company the news was negative or depressing and it requires some mindgames then to keep yourself pouring energy into the work and not slumping in the chair thinking "what's the use?". Being on the phone regularly and documenting where you are at in a place easily visible from the office (CVS, email project dumps, etc) can deal with the monitoring problems in a good way.
However, this company had the most amazing political situations going on. I found that by not physically being there all the time there it was easy to miss out on the latest twists and turns in the ongoing sagas, and that in such a hothouse political situation that can be a big drawback. I also found that there was a tendancy by others to regard myself as less committed, simply by lack of physical presence, even though in every other way it was clear I was playing more than a full role. So there are psychological issues in not being physically present when problems and bad or good news comes up, you are not seen to be proactive when someone else is always first on the scene to fight the fire, since the call is going to come to the office.
The advantages are clear, especially if you have children. But the disadvantages make themselves felt pretty clearly too, if you cherish hopes of getting a more managerial responsibility over time, you might find this system is not helping you towards that. In the end I quit after 14 months, when the political sagas reached a point where it was clear there was no growth path for myself (and in fact anyone else based in their UK office as far as I could see, three other people also left out of a total staff of 8 while I was there).
Re:My experience (Score:4, Interesting)
Its true that there are alot of positive and negative points about working from home, the most important thing i found for myself was making a area at home that is solely dedicated to work, because if you are sitting in front of the TV with a laptop on your lap, you aren't gonna be too focused on your work.
Mind you, its also a huge time saver as well, as 2 hours work at home (say if you are trying to document something large and complicated) is greater than a whole day at office (constant interuptions)
i think working from home should only be done when its appropriate, but shouldn't be a regular thing unless you are a outside contractor (paid on completion) or if you have small kids or something like that.
Re:My experience (Score:2)
Re:My experience (Score:5, Interesting)
I was working for the IT department of an austrian company in Tokyo. The company grew and office space is expensive, especially if you need to move to another building. The simple fix was, to let some of the developers and translators, who were working already several years at the company, work from home. After all, those do not need physical appearance and they prefer (due to the nature of work) a quiet environment. Something which is difficult to get in a japanese company.
Worked out well, as it was easy to check they are working by checking the results. The employees (not all wanted to work from home) were generally happy, some office space was saved, travel money (paid usually by the company) was saved, in the end, everyone was happy.
I think the trick in this excercise was, so let experienced workers work from home. People who are known to be able to motivate themself. And as everyone could check the productivity, the usual problem of teleworking, not being able to tell if the employee watches TV or works 8 hours, did not apply here.
Re:My experience (Score:5, Insightful)
*When there was someone in the house and I worked from home, (a) I couldn't get anything done but more importantly (b) I didn't want to see her that damn much anyway.
*When there wasn't anybody in the house, my god how maddening to get up, go sit over there, do stuff, go over there, go to sleep, repeat. Like being in an institution.
This isn't the usual "it's no good because you can't get your work done" thing", this is the "it's no damn fun" thing. It's just my opinion, and I'm sure some people have completely different experiences, but I was WAY happier going over to *that* building to do shit just cause I at least get to see two different buildings! and I have a reason to shave and get out of the pajamas...
But an office is a drag too. My favorite was when I was an accounting consultant. We had about 35 clients. I'd be in one place in the morning, another in the afternoon, sometimes one place for a whole week, sometimes at home. The variety of environments and people was stimulating.
Re:My experience (Score:2)
I you have provided some excellent evidence that work is a social interaction between people.
Oh Yeah, you get money in there too.
It doesn't need to be a social event. But many people in the world make it that way as evidenced by the ongoing political games and rumour-mongering that goes on regularly.
The other problem you have here in America is trust. No one trusts someone who works from home. The core of the Corporation naturally assumes that you are a slacker if you are not making appearances.
Re:My experience (Score:4, Interesting)
You'll probably never get over this though. If no one can see you at work, you're not working. You could be sleeping at your desk and your coworkers would have a higher view of you than a telecommuter. I don't know if it's jealously or just plain incomprehension of the fact that someone doesn't need to sit their butt at the office to do work for the company.
It's not like you're sitting there sorting and filing papers or working at a factory. All you need is a computer with an Internet connection and most of us could do 99% of our jobs in our pajamas from home. Of course, then you get the frightening prospect that your work could just as easily be farmed off to some low-payed worker in India. It's a double-edged sword.
Re:My experience (Score:2, Funny)
I'm a network engineer, when things work, no one complains, if its broken, i get attention, but day to day, my boss has no idea what i do (come to think of it, neither do i....well, slashdot for one thing)
the simple fact is (to quote dilbert) your boss usually knows two things about you
When you arrive/leave.
What you look like.
Take those away, th
Re:My experience (Score:2, Funny)
Re:My experience (Score:3, Interesting)
If no one can see you at work, you're not working. You could be sleeping at your desk and your coworkers would have a higher view of you than a telecommuter. I don't know if it's jealously or just plain incomprehension of the fact that someone doesn't need to sit their butt at the office to do work for the company.
I've telecommuted on and off for about a third of my 20+ year career in computers, and I've thought about this a lot.
I think the real problem here is that if you are away, the superficial info
Re:My experience (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:My experience (Score:2)
Well, I work in an office with a bunch of other sysadmins. And the above mindset describes how we see our jobs 90% of the time. Come 1pm and my mind switches off anway. So being in the office past then is relatively pointless.
I was off ill yesterday, slept until about 11am, then decided to check my mail
Re:My experience (Score:2, Interesting)
Personally, not needing to pay attention to political sagas is an advantage for me, since I don't have to care about that. I have my work done and I don't have to bother with unrelated stuff.
The disadvantage is, that you are not seen and people don't think you are commited. They will eventually see the hard work, when something bad happens and they see how promptly you can solve issues.
Now I'm also a contractor for other
Salary (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Salary (Score:2, Interesting)
loneliness (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:loneliness (Score:3, Funny)
Care to elaborate on the 'things' you have to do ? Do the voices in your head make you do them ?
Re:loneliness (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:loneliness (Score:2, Insightful)
I personally don't think I could ever work consistently from home. I need human interaction. A more pressing concern, however, is that the boredom will drive you(or me, at least) to stop working more often than it would at work.
That's one nice thing about work. You are there with a purpose. Working from home, to me, would be like w
Re:loneliness (Score:5, Insightful)
Work is for many people as much a social activity as it is a financial activity. Being with coworkers who are roughly doing the same as you and working for the same goals does make a difference and being alone will driveyou crazy.
Also, the whole "discussions at the watercooler" effect tends to go away if you are not there. Those discussion are sometimes very important.
Re:loneliness (Score:2, Interesting)
However, at the company I work for, there are some useful things to help stave off the loneliness thing:
Re:loneliness (Score:4, Insightful)
All my friends are my wife's friends. Well, I've started making some of my own, but when you don't get out socially on your own terms, it's slow. You've really got to work hard on getting to meet people, or you'll go crazy for social interaction... and no, chatting on the phone or IM or email with people at work 3,000 miles (my case) won't cut it. It's almost driven me on a couple of occasions to quit, take the 40-50% pay cut to work locally here in Toronto, but work in an office again.
It's hard to network when you work from home. It's hard for your career to progrees when you work from home: you have to work on easily packaged projects, and more senior roles involving management of others are less effective. You have to have a team that communicates well. Personally, if I were in a hiring position, I wouldn't take on anybody like me who can't even get to the office.
The flexibility makes up for a lot of it. I'm in a position that allows me to re-arrange my hours as I see fit. It takes a lot of self-discipline though, and a lot of trust by my employer. If I want to run errands during the day, or go for a run, I do. If I want to meet my wife for beer when she finishes work, I do. If I want to sleep in the next day with a hang over, I do.
Re:loneliness (Score:3, Insightful)
- Have friends close by who also work from home. Regular 'Lunch Meetings' gets you out of the house. Especially today since London is in the middle of sunshine (About time right!). Also Friday 4pm is 'Beer O' Clock' with the mates to wind down from the week.
- If you are working for
local coffeehouse (Score:4, Interesting)
So perhaps working out of home isn't the best idea, but perhaps your local coffeehouse might allow that simple social interaction that would help.
it isn't that uncommon (Score:3, Informative)
Re:it isn't that uncommon (Score:2)
Conference calls?? Why not VoIP? (Score:2)
Advantages. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes there are advantages to teleworking.
Yes it would save company money.
It will never catch on though. Bosses like to have their staff lined up in little cubicles. They like to feel in control. In the minds of most bosses empire building, politics, and wanting to look like they are in charge is important. Company money isn't.
How many times has your company wasted money on stupidity because some overpaid fool thought it was a good idea??
My company does this often.
Re:Advantages. (Score:2)
I've always liked having my team in the office with me and it's nothing to do with cubicals or being in control.
With teleworkers you can't just turn around and ask them a question, meetings are more of a pain (no visual aspect, you can't use a flip-boar
Re:Advantages. (Score:3, Interesting)
Meetings can be more of a pain, but quite honestly, meetings are automatically a pain. Most meetings are non-interactive - they're
Re:Advantages. (Score:2)
Hmm, well when I worked at ENRON the upper management rarely made stupid decisions...
And even over here at SCO things are really smooth... nothing but competence and honest businessmen at the top.
Re:Advantages. (Score:3, Insightful)
How many times has your company wasted money on stupidity because some overpaid fool thought it was a good idea??
That is the way companies were in the past. If doesn't have to be the way companies are in the future. Once upone a time all employees had ti
Re:Advantages. (Score:2)
>
I dunno what colour the sky is where you live, but believe it or not lots of people are ALREADY telecommuting, at least some of the time. I can't think of anywhere I've worked in the last ten years where SOME home working was the norm. Apart from a certain horrible US mega-corp [nai.com], management tend to judge by results. 'Presenteeism', ie being in the office in body but absent in mind (for whatever reason) really doesn't work. Any decent employer should trust you to get t
Re:Advantages. (Score:2, Funny)
You could give a presentation without your pants on!
Never again!
Try the banks (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, I'm a developer. Not sure what it's like for non-pure IT staff.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Try the banks (Score:3, Insightful)
I've considered teleworking (possible for maybe 30% of my work), but I ENJOY London and all it's facilities, I don't want to be stuck in a small town (even a nice one like Amersham or Marl
Re:Try the banks (Score:2)
No kids, right...?
Seriously, a couple of years ago I would have agreed with you entirely. Now, I need to get back to see my baby daughter. Having said that, I use my commuting time as a bit of break where I can do what I need, not what what my daughter needs, not what my wife needs, not what work needs...just some time for me to chill out, listen to music and relax.
Cheers,
Ian
In Layman's Terms... (Score:5, Funny)
Save journey time of 3 hours per day - (I can sleep in an extra 3 hours)
Save travel expenses - (Forget the car, I can use my Snoopy slippers)
Save travel frustration (delays, crowds, mobile phone idiocy, etc.) - (I only have to trip over my dog)
Be fresh and alert when I start work - (Morning crack and coffee)
Feel better at the end of the working day - (I'm drunk by 0930)
Be at work promptly each day - (Work starts when I wake up... bitch)
Work in a pleasant/relaxed environment - (Did I mention my crack and coffee?)
Ready access to my (large) technical library - (Google)
Advantages for my employer:
Cost savings - (I can browse for porn at home)
Office space savings - (No need for a cubicle, I don't have to leave bed)
Improved productivity - (crack!)
Increased motivation - (I can say 'fuck you' to my employer and not be heard)
Advantages for society:
Reduced traffic congestion - (I'm a maniac driver, if I don't have to leave home no one will die due to my poor driving skills)
Reduction in total travel and therefore pollution - (When I soil my britches no one will notice)
There are a number of disadvantages and factors to consider, though none should be insurmountable. A couple might be:
Employer needs to monitor quantity and quality of work performed - (That's what webcams are for, watch while I surf porn sites, smoke crack, drink my coffee, and soil myself)
Internet connectivity (mine currently limited to 56Kb) - (My employer should cough up some dough so I can get a broadband connection so I can be more productive in my porn browsing)
Re:In Layman's Terms... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:In Layman's Terms... (Score:4, Funny)
But how can you annoy your co-workers?? (Score:2, Funny)
Around lunch time when I leave the office I especially love to turn my speakers on full blast and execute a perl program that turns makes Mozilla go here [mac.com] 10 minutes after I leave.
I also make sure sure Xscreensaver is on with a password so my other coworkers can shut it off.
However I found my speakers in the parking lot with piss all over them after I did this. My boss permanently took awhile my priveldge to use speakers after that incident.
Re:But how can you annoy your co-workers?? (Score:2)
Thanks for that BillyGates, haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
Now please provide instructions on how to get that f*cking song out of my head.
Re:But how can you annoy your co-workers?? (Score:2)
Re:But how can you annoy your co-workers?? (Score:2)
This is the worst [imarc.net].
If you really want to work at / very near home... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If you really want to work at / very near home. (Score:5, Insightful)
Really, it depends on your personality. Do you have sufficent self-motivation, can you whip your own butt into doing work when you'd really rather just laze in front of the TV.
It's a choice - do you want the comfort of a consistant (??) pay cheque but without the freedom of time-choice, or vice-versa.
I recently had the opportunity to telecommute if I was to become an employee of another company, doing almost the same thing I'm doing now - but, then it struck me - the most important thing to me is the ability to do as I please, I'm just exceedingly fortunate that I manage to still make enough sales.
Regards.
I do this, but it takes time (Score:5, Insightful)
The way I got here was to work for this group full-time on-site on a number of different engagements over a few years. When the first opportunity to work at home came up, I took it. I provide my own hardware and net connectivity.
Since I have proven my ability to get results and to do whatever it takes to satisfy the customer, I got this chance. Since I still make my dates and satisfy the customer, I am still afforded this opportunity.
It has its downsides, no doubt. My 2-year old daughter doesn't always understand when I can't interrupt myself and come do what she wants. But the time I've been able to spend with her has been priceless, from coming up to eat lunch with her, to dropping by the pool in the afternoon for a half-hour swim, it's been wonderful.
I consider myself lucky and work hard to keep this opportunity in my life.
3 hours per day... Sitting in traffic... (Score:5, Interesting)
Assume 25 days holiday per year which is 5 weeks, so 47 working weeks/year times 15 hours per week is 705 hours per year spent sitting in traffic...
Assuming 16 waking hours per day, you spend 44 days per year of your awake life just sitting in traffic. A month and a half? That's gotta be fun.
Assuming a working lifetime of say 40 years of the same, that'd be 1760 days, or nearly 5 years of your life you'd spend sitting in a cage, listening to Chris Tarrant on the radio.
Now, isn't that an interesting, exciting, useful, challenging and productive way to spend 5 years of your life?
Re:3 hours per day... Sitting in traffic... (Score:4, Interesting)
It can be. Honestly.
How? Well, I work during the day. I have a 16-month old daughter to look after when I get home, and I often have paperwork too. The travel time can be quite relaxing in comparison - time to sit on your own for a bit, listen to some music...no trouble. If you're capable of relaxing rather descending into road-rage, then it actually can be a good time. A break to get a moment's thinking time for yourself.
Cheers,
Ian
Old fashioned teleworking (Score:3, Insightful)
Save journey time of 3 hours per day
Save travel expenses
Save travel frustration (delays, crowds, mobile phone idiocy, etc.)
Be fresh and alert when you start work
Feel better at the end of the working day
Be at work promptly each day
You would also find that you will get better connectivity than 56kbit.
He can't afford the accomodation (Score:5, Informative)
Re:He can't afford the accomodation (Score:2, Funny)
And he probably wouldn't save that much travelling time. At peak times pavements can get so jammed it often takes 30 minutes or more to walk a couple of hundred yards.
Stephen
Re:He can't afford the accomodation (Score:4, Interesting)
> which would be $320k-$800k.
>
So get a few friends together and rent a house. We paid £1100 pcm for a 4 bedroom place with std. mod cons, front & back garden, 7 mins walks from the tube. (Granted, this was a bit of a bargain, but they're still out there if you're prepared to look.) Get a geek house going and you might be able to club together for a leased line, too. And think of the savings in video rentals when the Matrix, LotR etc come out
And anyway, tech workers in central London still earn a fsck of a lot more than the average wage, even post-boom and with the City firing thousands. In fact this HELPS- without all those huge bonuses, the demand for very high-end gaffs has dropped off a lot, and theoretically at least that'll ripple down the accomodation food-chain. IYSWIM.
Re:Nor can we (Score:2)
> deliberate government policy.
>
>The ratio of house prices to salaries in the UK is now at it's highest
>since records began in 1900.
thanks to the Daily Moron^w Mail and Express, obsessing over house prices... the Private Eye piss-takes of their obsession is hardly funny any more, one of them had a shock horror front page lead yesterday about terrorism causing a world (!) house price crash. Like that would be a bad thing.
Re:Nor can we (Score:2)
Re:Nor can we (Score:3, Insightful)
Aah, but the mortgage rates are also some of the lowest since records began. This makes mortgages more affordable than they have been for a long time.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a UK house owner, yet would love to see a house price crash. Why? Because at the moment all the high prices mean is that various people get to swap pieces of paper about with big numbers printed on them. What does it matter if both my
Re:He can't afford the accomodation (Score:2)
I never understood why people work in London 8)
Re:Old fashioned teleworking (Score:3, Insightful)
It is akin to migratory animals who have no choice but to spend half their lives moving south, then the other moving north.
Moving house to be near work is nearly as bad as being a migrant beast. This is the 21stC ... why should we still live to work. Whatever happened to all of the "increased leisure time" that technology was supposed to bestow on us all??
Bah!! Work To Live - Not Live To Work!!
I found it incredibly depressing (Score:5, Interesting)
Whilst for some tasks it works really well, e.g. reading documentation, writing presentations etc., for most work I find that it inhibits communication between colleagues. Communication (or lack of) is one the biggest issues that companies face. Many companies spend a fortune implementing all kinds of systems and processes to improve communication, but often the most efficient and cheapest way is to have the entire project sitting at adjacent desks. People then just tend to chat about problems, solutions etc.
Personally though my biggest problem was sitting at home by myself for an entire day with no-one to talk to. I also found it much harder to motivate myself and would often just put things off while I watched day time TV. Maybe I'm just a lazy b*stard but I don't think I'm that unusual.
Re:I found it incredibly depressing (Score:2, Interesting)
Instead, I sit here watching slashdot hoping that someone will post a recepie for a major fog-clearing, zest inducing power juice.
Excuse my while I now go get beaten up in Tekken III by my wife.
Re:takes a written plan to beat procrastination (Score:2)
Personally I work for myself, I am my own company. Currently I already sell quite a few licences of my application - but there's a lot more waiting out there for me if I can get my rear into Gear.
Thanks for the URLs.
Re:I found it incredibly depressing (Score:3, Interesting)
M&M mars does this.
No cubicles! Just desks and rows of desks for groups of employee's who are on the same project. Some of the programmers even share one long foldout table so they can work together if the group is tiny enough.
Hell even the CEO does not have private office. They have standard
Re:I found it incredibly depressing (Score:2)
You are very right about the communication though, we all sit here chatting about work over our monitors. Although having a CEO without an office is a bit dodgy - how do they have discussions about financials, redundancies and all those other things that need to done in private? At most companies anyone involved in finance or HR has to have privacy, the former so that general employees cannot be acc
Re :Teleworking in the UK? (Score:3, Interesting)
The A$ is currently worth not very much at all (too lazy to look it up) so working "over here" would not be possible - A$50 is a decent enough hourly rate in Sydney, which I think is about 16 pounds and around US$25. I doubt, therefore that someone in the US or UK would want to Telework to Aus. (but contact me with outsourcing opportunities *grin*).
Timezones. I used to have an office in Switzerland (I am based in Sydney) during the
It is amazing that an 8 hour time difference and a lack of understanding on the other side made it difficult. I was regularly attending meetings at 2am and staying back until 7 or 8 on a daily basis. We couldn't change hour working hours much as we had Aussie customers to deal with.
Now I am working from home by necessity, and I must say I find it more effective, but this is a factor of who I work with rather than the location.
Motivation is key. Time management is a must. Install instant messaging client to reduce comms cost and provide a feeling of connectivity - you can page people to say hi, ask a question.
Working from home you can also get a sense of Isolation, of not being part of the "real world".
It was good recently that I had to go work in the city, put on a suit and get on the train. I enjoyed the variation, it got me out of the house - and also made me appreciate my lair more when I got back home!
Re:Re :Teleworking in the UK? (Score:2)
One of my ideas for "when I get round to it" is a pair-progrsamming IDE. Two users with same display on screen, VoIP chat, multiple windows, two pointers for pointing things out. "Programmer in charge" can edit in his window(s), "Second Programmer" can browse code in his window to point things out but not edit. Roles change with
Working at home.... (Score:2, Informative)
I'm currently managing to work from home ok, even though it's my three kids holiday.
Advantages for me are plenty (especially for avoiding
To all employers (Score:4, Informative)
I think it boils down to the fact that some days, when you wake up, you just don't feel like getting up. On those days, at a company that doesn't allow home working, you might be tempted to ring in, and call a sickie. But if you are allowed to work from home, you would probably roll back to sleep for a few minutes, and then get up, and do some work from home.
The company I work for also provides me with company paid ADSL which terminates in the lab I work for, thus meaning that I can simply plug in to the lab network at any time. This has a bonus for them, as quite often, at weekends, and evenings, if I think of something, rather than wait until the next working day, and/or maybe forgetting it by then anyway, I will log in, and do some work in my own time.
I really appreciate the way this company treats its employees, and I think the motto is: Trust your employees, don't treat them like slaves, and they will work happier, and be more productive. At least, that's how I'm finding it.
I know someone that worked through a whole weekend for free, moving servers from one part of the city to the other - from 9 am to 10pm on both days. They arrived at work on Monday about 5 minutes late, and the boss pulled them up about it. Forget thanking them for their hard work (for free!) over the weekend. They quit that job soon after, and got a job with a funky little tech company, and now work harder, as their work is appreciated.
Obviously, I understand that some kinds of work can't be done from home, but I think in the majority of case, where people write documents, support networks, answer phone calls, they should be trusted with the opportunity to work from home for say one day a week.
I digressed slightly towards the end there, didn't I? But I see working from home as an example of how a company treats its employees.
I've done this before (Score:3, Interesting)
Most of my best work was done from home. My computers were faster, my connection was faster, I had software the boss wouldn't buy, and saved a 4hour commuite from hell. It wasn't every day I was at home, but about 1/2 the work week was done from the home office, well till eventually I gave up on the whole going to the office.
The boss didn't really approve though... basicly under the old impression of, "if I can't see you working, you are not working", but at the very least had server logs, VPN access, database access to somewhat justify why I wasn't in the office. Simple answer, "I was working" It was honestly a case where it was pointless to hit traffic go to the office, just to check my e-mail to see what projects were schedualed for the day, then drive back home to complete them.
But eventually there was an argument over paying me for work done in my home office, basicly a documented claim in e-mail about how he doesn't pay for what I do on my own time, which was fine by me, so I just billed the clients directly rather then going through him, and made more money. He wasn't happy, but it was his choice.
But the point is that telecommuting can work, provided you don't have an employer who's a total bozo. In my case simple call forwarding to my mobile, or mobile to my land line, gave the illusion of a tradidational office setting. Phone the office, need to talk to the staff, the staff answers. (Little diffrence in America being the cell holder pays for the air time, never the caller, but the office switchboard should accomplish this illusion quite well). I know also that the network known now as t-mobile supported fax to mobile services, where the subscriber who recieved a fax on the mobile could route it to any number of their choosing, again making it easy for the staff not to be near the physical office fax.
I thought the term was telecommuting. (Score:2, Informative)
Work barriers... (Score:2, Funny)
1. Cricket: Learn the rules of this (supposedly) gentleman's game. And no, this is not baseball played with a smaller heavier ball. It isn't a chirping insect either.
2. Conversation: Folks in the UK are quick to note when you're being sarcastic. They're also a bit more relaxed, and can laugh at themselves. Not so high strung as the folks across the pond.
3. Be
You need a visa. (Score:2, Interesting)
It doesn't get worse than that unless you're black, don't dress in visibly wealthy "old money" style and just went through a stop sign...
America is a great place as long as you have money... Its pretty damn dismal when you don't.
it's nice but hard to find (Score:2)
I liked i
Broadband (Score:4, Informative)
Set up your own company (Score:3, Insightful)
It's really not difficult to set up your own company in the UK. Also, you don't have to live in the UK to be director of a company based in the UK.
Having your own company gives you much more flexibility than just working for a single employer. It also gives you more flexibility with regards to how you pay your taxes.
Where you live can be transparent to your clients - you can have a UK-based address with someone to answer and redirect your phone calls quite cheaply. Your clients don't necessarily need to know you're coding whilst sitting by the pool with a cool drink in the south of France or wherever. Go for it.
EU (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't know about being a US resident working in the US (it's outside the boundries of the European Community)...
For the EU, there would be no problem in attaining a permit to work (it is after all the EU)... The one thing I'm unsure of is taxes (here in Sweden, you pax taxes to the municipality you live in (as opposed to the one you work in)... The employer on the other hand pays taxes based on where you work.
I'm not really in t
Another my experience (Score:5, Interesting)
out of London (Score:4, Interesting)
Some of my group are often on the road visiting clients (mostly doing firewall installs but also presales and other consultancy); personally I'm looking forward to the time I get myself some proper accomodation, work pay for broadband and I can do my (pentesting) work from home at least some of the time. That said, I'd go bonkers if I never came into the office at all.
Re:out of London (Score:2, Funny)
Re:out of London (Score:2)
That said, my journey started at Brixton - end of the Victoria (tube) line, so again I was guaranteed a seat, so I might be biased there, too.
Re:out of London (Score:2)
Now I'm a train buff, and I like trains...but...
(Disclaimer: I don't live in the UK, only occasionally visit)
It really depends on where you need to go on the trains. If you're going anywhere served by Connex trains it's pretty miserable for commuting. Although I like the old 4VEP EMUs that Connex run (from an enthusiast's point of view), they really suck hard when it comes to commuting. They are cramped, sweltering in the summ
Collaborative development (Score:3, Interesting)
It would be interesting to hear if open source developers think that this might work - I imagine it's a similar style of working albeit with different motivations....
Telecommuting (Score:2)
Working from home (Score:3, Insightful)
Move to the city or find a job close to home.
I am currently living in Tokyo a city that is 3 times bigger than London so I know what I am talking about for NOT commuting.
It is "normal" for Japanese to commute 1 1/2 hours each way after working 12 hours here.
Regards,
Lars
Beware... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you can work from home, then you're proving to your employer that someone in Asia could work from their home for 1/5 your salary. There is a good chance you will ever find yourself unemployed as soon as it's "working really well for the company".
The reality is your employer was simple beta testing its remote worker processes.
I don't know about you... (Score:2, Funny)
Middle Management - the real probleg (Score:2, Insightful)
Technology and organisation are not the real problem - it's usually middle management and their fear of lossing control.
I have been freelancing for many companies, who were all "capable" of supporting teleworking. But the decision was mostly based on how paranoid the middle management guys were. And if they felt "secure" and "empowered" to let go of their cubicle slaves.
I'm Doing This (Score:5, Informative)
The benefits you mention really are great. Especially if you're used to being salaried and managing your own time and working without much guidance. It's very easy to get distracted by housework, spending time with the kids, surfing the net, etc.
The only complaints I have are ones that other people have brought up: not being there physically has side effects. Other than email, the only contact I have with the office is a weekly 1-hour phone call, and a two or three day visit every six months or so. So I'm totally out of the office politics. My department used to be software-only, and recently got merged with the main IT department, so this can cause some stress. You can go in physically more often, so I'd suggest going in at least once every week or two to prevent this.
The other side of not being there is the reduced personal interaction. I'm a total introvert, so I didn't think it would be an issue, but it still is. You need to make sure you get human contact and don't just withdraw into your cocoon.
And one more thing -- expect the taxes to be really complicated if you work for a company in a different country. And expect both countries to be completely unhelpful when you're trying to figure anything out -- at least that's my experience. Just yesterday I had someone from the Centre for Non-Residents (e.g., UK expats) tell me they probably knew the answers to my questions, but wouldn't talk to me b/c I'm resident in the UK.
-Esme
EU teleworking agreement (Score:3, Interesting)
This page has a reasonable description (skip down to the bit about the main points) although some of the links seem to be broken.
The agreement is voluntary but lots of large companies do follow this. My own experience was that companies often prefer to have you work *part time* in the office rather than full time at home, to avoid the onus of a health and safety inspection of your house (I can't remember if this one is required under UK law, we have some regs which differ from the EU agreement). There are definite tax implications in the UK when you work from home, and you should allocate a room or an area in your house as your 'home office'. (the issue was, IIRC, that if the company provide you with furniture and/or equipment - as is often the case because of their health and safety duty of care - then this can be taxed as an additional benifit, unless you use it *exclusively* for work)
If you belong to a professional organization or union they will almost certainly be able to provide you with better advice than anyone
You should also read this note [dti.gov.uk] on working outside of the UK.
Disclaimer: IANAL, but I did serve as a union official 3 years or so ago, and dealt with a couple of teleworking cases.
-Baz
From an Employer's Perspective (Score:3, Interesting)
I have no problem trying overseas programmers again, but only for very well defined projects, and not where the client requirements are in the slightest bit fluid.
Visibility (Score:3, Insightful)
Secondly, finding a company to let you do this is nearly impossible. I currently work from home about 1/3 of the time. I'm in the office 8 hours a day and then work from home 2 - 4 hours a day. The work I do at home is of the same quality that I perform in the office, but generally the same chunk of work takes less time at home due to fewer interruptions. Despite this, we are not allowed to work from home. Management will not allow it, despite having presented a fairly good business case.
Out of London -- into Telford (Score:4, Insightful)
I've worked from home for the last 3 years or so, initially in London (New Malden) and now in Telford. It seemed mad to be living in an expensive London suburb when I didn't need to commute at all. And now we are out of the cramped London conditions, next to the countryside, with NO TRAFFIC JAMS!!!
Again, being in IT, it's fairly easy to get everything you need installed at home. A clutch of PCs and servers, software, some kind of Internet connectivity, and a telephone.
With a permanent Internet connection, IM helps you stay in touch, and to be honest I probably make more of an effort to chat when i see friends & family all over the world appear on my IM list. It'll be better if ADSL is actually going to make it to my local exchange...
Telford is about 2.5 - 3 hrs from London, so not exactly a huge distance away, and my trips there (and to Reading) can take place up to 3 times a week without any problems - any more than that and it would be a bit tiring...
But as someone else has said - if you have kids, it's great. My first child I was working a 1-1.5hr drive away. She was just getting up when I left, and just going to bed when I got back. She seemed to grow up really quickly. My second child, I was working only a 15 minute scooter ride away; I saw much more of her and could take part in more of the school related things. With child number 3, he has just hit 2 years old, and he has a strop when I have to go out for the day! He is so used to me being there, that when I'm not, his whole world gets shattered.
The ability to pop out if needed, take a day off at short notice, and basically decide your own game plan is fantastic.
And long may it continue, I hope...
But if you telecommute (Score:3, Funny)
Is THAT what you want?
Teleworking (Score:3, Interesting)
I wanted to work from home, none of my previous customers were happy with me doing it since they paid me per hour. Paying people per hour gave them this strange compulsion to actually have me on site so that I could see that I was actually working.
I changed my relationships with my customers such that I now quote for "lumps of work" or "deliverables". They say "We want XYZ", I say "Thats £2.50". How I do it is none of their concern - how long it takes me, what I do in the intervening time is my business - not theirs.
How do you sell that view?
Advantages to Customer:
1) Liability. When things go wrong, if the consultant is on a time-based contract then the bill to the customer is as long as it takes to fix the problem. Ie, open-ended liability. If things go wrong YOU get the bill. Goodbye IR35.
2) Accountability. Once you have given the customer the comfort level they need that you can provide the services to them competantly, they are more than happy to outsource their non-core business functions out.
3) Cost. If the customer insists on working you on T+M, provide an incentive. I have two rates, Rate A is for formal training and knowledge transfer or anything which is ON-SITE. Rate B is for anything else which is OFF-SITE.
I'm not going to publish my rates here, but to give you an idea - my discounted rate (offsite) is 40% of my normal rate (on-site).
This means that the customer saves 40% on his costs if he doesn't mandate my consultants being on-site.
What does this mean for me now?
Well, I've been working mainly from the home office for the best part of two years, my customer visits are on average two or three times a month.
I have my green-card, I'm emigrating to the US on July 1st. What difference does this make to my customer? None at all. Does my customer mind? Not in the slightest. If they need me on site a few days consultancy easily covers travel expenses.
My customer continues paying my UK company. My company continues paying UK taxes. I continue paying (some) UK taxes, and according to two Tax Attournies in the US I am exempt from US taxes.
I don't believe them.
Hope that gives you some ideas and food for thought.
90 minutes to London? (Score:3, Funny)
So you live, what, 2 miles outside the city limits?
Thank you, I'll be here all week, you're a great crowd.
If your management resists... (Score:3, Interesting)
...they are probably seeing this list of advantages/disadvantages like this:
Advantages for me:
Advantages for my employer:
Advantages for society:
There are a number of disadvantages and factors to consider, though none should be insurmountable. A couple might be:
So if you're having trouble getting approval to work from home. You might be running into these attitudes.
Have a nice day!
Do consulting at home by phone (Score:3, Interesting)
If you'd like to do independent consulting from home, you might want to try out KEEN at the UK site [keen.co.uk] or the US site [keen.com]. This site allows people with questions to get connected with you for help, and you get paid. I have no association with the site other than someone showed it to me a couple weeks ago.
Re:My take on it... (Score:4, Interesting)
I work in the UK.
I hate to say it, but you are right in a lot of cases.
I see a lot of people talk about football and do very little work all day. They then start working at 5 pm just so they can be seen to be working hard when the boss walks past later.
I don't do this, I work when I'm paid to work. But I see people getting pay raises for this.
Re:My take on it... (Score:2)
Anyway, the lad types who talk about football & sex all the time are rarely very good company anyway.
An experience of this: (Score:3, Interesting)
I work for a small software/web company located about half an hour outside of London
About six months ago, it was decided that all technical members of staff would be allowed to work from home whenever they wanted as long as they weren't supposed to be in a meeting or something.
About half of the staff here have never bothered doing this; I have tried it a few times but usually come in. Why?
Re:Working (from) abroad (Score:5, Informative)
Essentially the deal is that the UK tax system is heavily rigged towards rich people (aren't they all, but the UK more than most), but Employee Benefit Trusts can often be utilized by mere mortals too.
If you are employed by an offshore company, and that company pay you a salary, you still have to pay normal income tax. However, nothing forces the company to pay you everything as salary. Instead, they can pay you a "low" salary (low for the IT sector) of up to about £20k-£25k a year, which will be taxed at the lower tax bands, and pay an amount into an employee benefit trust every three months or so.
Technically the trustee is independently deciding what the money should go to - that is a requirement for trusts to be able to pay out to UK residents in a tax efficient manner. However the company will recommend that the money be paid to the employee (you) in a tax efficient manner. Since the trustee is legally bound to act in the beneficiarys best interest, it would be almost unprecented for the trustee not to do so.
The net result can be that with proper planning you end up paying 15-20% income tax at most, even with salaries 4-5 times the UK national average, or more.
It could in theory be used if you're working full time for a UK company too, but I doubt they would be ready to take the hassle, as you would need to be employed by some offshore shell company for it to work.