On The Legality of Public Viewing? 74
bobej1977 asks: "I'm looking into opening a technology-centric cafe/bar, and am wondering about the legality of showing different types of media in the cafe. Specifically, I'm interested in using a PVR to build a library of popular television shows (Futurama, Simpsons, Enterprise, etc) and making it available to patrons of the cafe. Many establishments show live sports events or even popular shows but where exactly is the legal-line that a business shouldn't cross? While I'm at it, what about showing DVDs in the cafe? While I'm sure that doing so is prohibited, would it be tolerated since I wouldn't be charging to watch them? The precedent I'm thinking of is that some electronics or video rental stores that show movies, in the store. If not, what kind of arrangements could be made to get permission, if I'd like to have a LOTR-a-thon?"
Read carefully the FBI warning at the beginning... (Score:2)
Re:Read carefully the FBI warning at the beginning (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Read carefully the FBI warning at the beginning (Score:2, Funny)
Re:mod parent off-topic (Score:1)
Re:Read carefully the FBI warning at the beginning (Score:2)
Re:Read carefully the FBI warning at the beginning (Score:2)
Re:Read carefully the FBI warning at the beginning (Score:2)
Re:Read carefully the FBI warning ... (Score:1)
Note that this site refers to playing broadcasts - I gather that one can play broadcasts freely (with the above proviso) but this _does not_ include pre-recorded music/movies!
Sucks.
Re:Read carefully the FBI warning at the beginning (Score:1)
Only bad part is that the early bootlegs tend to be pretty cra
Re:Read carefully the FBI warning at the beginning (Score:1)
Nothing goonish about it. You only have to pay mechanical royalties if you're using music to attract customers. It's no different than if you had a live band playing - you're using the songwriter's work to make money, and they ought to get a cut.
How many times do we have to say IANAL? (Score:5, Insightful)
Get a lawyer. It's cheaper to do it right the first time than get your pants sued off and lose your business.
Slashdot *can* be useful (Score:1, Insightful)
1) Some lawyers are better than others. Yours might suck.
2) To find one fully versed in technology law is difficult or expensive. You might be 'po
3) lawyers are human (or humanoid at least), and they can use input into the creative process of saving you from the evil megacorp or slimeball patenter. Some of the comments might have novel suggestions.
It's one thing to say that they should ALSO have a lawyer and take the comments with a grain of salt. I
Re:Slashdot *can* be useful (Score:2)
all he really needs to do is call whoever makes the media he wants to display, and have them send him one of their contracts and a bill... but if he can't figure that out by himself, he should probably go to a laywer so he can find out what other shit he's doing wrong
Re:How many times do we have to say IANAL? (Score:2)
I'm positively shocked that you have to pay outrageous sums just for having a TV in your bar.
Every café and restaurant here in Portugal has one or more TVs and there's no one asking the owners for money.
I don't care if it's legal or not, everyone does it, everyone's done it for DECADES, and much like in the American P2P users article, even if it IS technically illegal there is no room to put 43 mill
Re:How many times do we have to say IANAL? (Score:1)
Re:How many times do we have to say IANAL? (Score:2)
You don't have to pay for a TV in the bar in the US (unlike Britain, where you have the license issue).
Seinfeld Theme (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Seinfeld Theme (Score:2)
Well, that's the big question, isn't it? I know that the Deli taped the shows when they were broadcast on TV. Now if they are not selling the viewing of the shows, only food and drink, I think that should be okay. It would be tantamount to just having the TV on in the Deli while the show was on. But, again, I could be wrong.
Plus, there is the whole issue, in these DMCA days, that he is actuall
Re:Seinfeld Theme (Score:2)
OWWWW!!!! my brain hurts. It all seems a little bit out of control to me.
Just stick with DVDs (Score:2)
Re:Just stick with DVDs (Score:2)
Bars (Score:5, Interesting)
You're screwed (Score:5, Insightful)
You're wrong (Score:3, Informative)
Re:You're wrong (Score:1)
I don't get it. I'm parsing that as "either under 3750 sq. ft. or 3750 sq. ft. and up"..which, uh, would mean
Re:You're wrong (Score:2)
Re:You're wrong (Score:1)
Here's the catch. The work must be licensed by the copyright owner. This seems to be a contradiction. Who has to have the license, and what kind of license must it be?
Re:You're wrong (Score:1)
Here's the catch. The work must be licensed by the copyright owner. This seems to be a contradiction. Who has to have the license, and what kind of license must it be?
I believe that means that the work must be licensed by the transmitter. In other words, if it's a bootleg transmission that you're rebroadcasting, that's not legitimate.
Of course, this isn't legal advice, because I'm not a lawyer, and the whole section is kind of confusing to me.
Licensing all around. (Score:2)
Enterprise? (Score:2)
Several things. (Score:5, Informative)
1. You're asking a legal question. You want legal advice. Ask Slashdot is a lousy place to get your legal advice. I wouldn't trust anything anyone here (including what I write below) says about this as a reliable indicator that you wouldn't get sued.
2. You would be charging for the content, even if you weren't doing so explicitly. That charge is folded into the cost of the drinks/coffee/muffins/whatever that you'd be serving. After all, you're not showing the content out of the kindness of your heart; you're showing it in hopes that it'll draw people into your shop.
You might think that if you're not kicking people out for not buying stuff, you're not charging; but in at least one circumstance, the U.S. courts have disagreed. In the U.S., business establishments that play background music (e.g. those Linkin Park/Lynyrd Skynyrd/Leonard Cohen songs you hear in the background when you go to your favorite club/bar/coffeehouse) are required to pay money [ascap.com] for doing so to ASCAP [ascap.com]. Most people don't realize this, but it's true. This is not incredibly aggressively enforced, but it is enforced. My favorite undergrad bar was shut down permanently because it wasn't making regular payments to ASCAP for the taped music it played before bands and in-between sets, and couldn't afford the fines and lump-sum payment once the court found against them.
Now, the music biz has all kinds of weird licensing restrictions and legislation, and I have no idea whether or not playing video content in your shop would be similar to playing music in your shop, in terms of your licensing obligations (once again, you need to talk to a real lawyer). But the fact that it is this way for music should make you look into this in more detail.
Ask a lawyer, not a bunch of Linux geeks (Score:5, Insightful)
In Related News... (Score:1)
Re:Ask a lawyer, not a bunch of Linux geeks (Score:4, Insightful)
For many reasons:
Time for the rant... I'm getting really sick of people like you who leap at EVERY opportunity to say IANAL or HINAL or SINAL. No fucking shit. Do you think people are so retarded that they're not going to know this already? The fact is, if people like you had their way then Ask Slashdot would be nothing but questions about computers. Some of us have hobbies outside of a computer screen. Some of us do know other stuff. Slashdot is News for Nerds, not News for Computer Nerds. I'm fricking sick of you nitwits assuming that everybody else is as dull as you are. If you don't have any valuable input then SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Re:Ask a lawyer, not a bunch of Linux geeks (Score:2)
IAAL, which is why I posted what I did. This is a complex question, and if the submitter guesses wrong about the answer he faces the possibility of serious civil and possibly criminal liablity. If a friend called me with this question, I'd give him the same suggestion as I gave the person asking Slashdot: go see someone who knows about this stuff (and who, frankly, has malpractice insurance if he gives you bad advise).
Re:Ask a lawyer, not a bunch of Linux geeks (Score:2)
If you AAL then perhaps you should give advice next time, instead of saying that Slashdot has no legal experts who can give legal advice.
Seeing as you AAL you would already know that you can't be sued for malpractice over free advice posted on a bulletin board under a pseudonym.
On another rant, I think it's pretty fucked up that a professional won't even talk within his field of exper
Re:Ask a lawyer, not a bunch of Linux geeks (Score:2)
The point about liability insurance was not that I'm worried about getting sued. Its precisely the opposite. If the submitter asked an attorney his question, he would have recourse against the attorney for bad advice. Not so for bad advice from random Slashdot people.
Re:Ask a lawyer, not a bunch of Linux geeks (Score:2)
So if this was not your field of expertise, why did you feel the need to say "IAAL"? Perhaps trying to browbeat me down with credentials? Shame on you.
Re:Ask a lawyer, not a bunch of Linux geeks (Score:2)
Because I do know enough about this to realize that its a difficult legal question, not appropriate for ask slashdot.
Over and out.
Re:Ask a lawyer, not a bunch of Linux geeks (Score:1, Troll)
Perhaps you should say that it's more difficult than YOU can answer, but possibly appropriate for somebody else on Slashdot. There are half a million people here, but you can arrogantly dismiss all half a million people as being less informed than you.
Your arrogance was also shown by your dismissive "over and out". I bet you say "plonk" or "killfiled" as well.
Re:Ask a lawyer, not a bunch of Linux geeks (Score:1, Troll)
My Twisted View (Score:3, Interesting)
when I saw the headline I was thinking of Public Viewing not as showing DVD's in public venues, but "viewing the public"
Imagine piping in live feeds with the ultimate in reality TV - highly zoomable video cameras (including shotgun mikes) aimed at beaches, at rough streets at night, the Capitol steps in DC, downtown Tikrit, the West Bank, G.W. Bush's nieces antics, Hillary and Bill's arguments, etc.
Now that would be interesting.
The day will come when highly detailed video and audio monitoring becomes sufficiently inexpensive that the issue of what constitutes a reasonable expection of privacy in public will come more to the fore than it is today.
Re:very simple (Score:1)
It's considered entertainment (Score:1, Interesting)
Public Performance (Score:2)
This prohibition does not seem that outrageous: it looks like you plan on using this media content to make money, why shouldn't they be concerned?
Now, I wonder what would be involved with getting permission from the movie/TV companies to do this the "legit" way.
Re:Public Performance (Score:2)
This appears to be the exact thing prohibited as "public performance" in the FBI warning and elsewhere.
Hopefully that elsewhere includes some sort of law, since FBI warnings are not legally binding.
You're not even allowed to record tv commercials.. (Score:1)
Talk to people in the industry. Talk to a lawyers.
Re:You're not even allowed to record tv commercial (Score:3, Informative)
You're not even allowed to record tv commercials to keep in library for your own personal enjoyment. If you can't do that, then there is no way that you are going to be able to do what you want for free.
I was going to correct you, but then I reviewed Sony v Universal [virtualrecordings.com] and found that it looks like you are right. In that decision, the Supreme Court specifically looks at the distinction between "Time-Shifting" (recording to watch once and then reusing the tape) and "Librarying" (record
Consider making it a non-profit (Score:1)
One idea though, might be to consider making it a not-for-profit or all-profits-go-to-charity venture. The producers in those cases might be willing to negotiate for you to show the content for free, or very cheaply, due to the good public relations they would get out of it. You could still pay a salary to yourself and your workers and be doing something good for the community.
Just an idea, of course.
Cafe in San Francisco doing this (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm hearing a lot of disagreement on slashdot (no, I am not suprised). Unfortunately, I'm not a lawyer type and the ones I know are currently 800 miles away at an unspecified location. I think that it is doable but that you're best covering your butt.
And about som
Re:Cafe in San Francisco doing this (Score:1)
I would think someone could get around this by allowing a "patron" to enjoy listening to whatever music they wanted and it just so happened that the rest of the audience "had" to listen to it.
Nope, then the patron would be guilty of copyright infringement, and the establishment would be guilty of contributory and vicarious copyright infringment.
Re:Cafe in San Francisco doing this (Score:2)
It's called Video Cafe, and it's at 5700 Geary, and it's open most of the night (or used to be.)
Motion Picture Licensing Corporation (Score:5, Informative)
You need to talk to MPLC:
Happy karma.Just agreeing with this person (Score:2)
I know this from my own experience with radio in fast food joints. You'll notice that most of them pipe in their own music. This is because either A) the local radio stations charge large sums for advertising or B) they don't want ads in their radio feed. It's actually against the law for you to go out and make your own mix tape and play it your store, because you are using their product to increase your sales. But it's not difficult (nor really that
From www.mplc.com... (Score:4, Informative)
The guys you go to if you want to purchase a one
year "subscription" umbrella license to show
just about anything you'd ever want to play in a public place:
MPLC members have maximum flexibility in programming home videocassettes and videodiscs by being able to obtain them from any source and show them legally.
Any Source?
BITCHIN. You could keep kazaa open in the back
room and download crap all day for public viewing!
Re:From www.mplc.com... (Score:1)
What a perfect word for that situtation;-)
Um... well... (Score:2, Informative)
good question (Score:1)
TV shows and movies in cafe (Score:1)