Paying for Volunteers? 71
Posted
by
Cliff
from the is-it-really-volunteering-if-you-pay-them dept.
from the is-it-really-volunteering-if-you-pay-them dept.
E1ven asks: "As the Head Producer of a moderate/early OSS game project, one of the constant questions is how to get quality people to volunteer time. One idea I've come up with is the concept of paying someone a small sum ($100/week?) to volunteer to work on the project. [Offering money will] make volunteering their time easier for them.
I know that some projects, like Freenet, that already do this to some extent. However, I'm not sure on exactly how to go about it. I can't just advertise on Monster or Dice, can I?
Does anyone have any advice they could offer on this subject? Has anyone gone through it?"
umm.. (Score:3, Redundant)
Re:umm.. (Score:2)
But The larger issue is, How do OTHER people do that? How should it be done?
Is $100/week the right number? I'm paying out of pocket, remember, and I'm just a poor college kid.
How does someone go about something like this? What about Tax forms? Liability? What's the procedure?
I'm really interested to know what I'm supposed to do, and how to do it.
Re:umm.. (Score:2)
Need your floor scrubbed mr. E1ven?
Re:umm.. (Score:4, Informative)
The only money I have I'm making from working over the summer. I figure if I can make $200/week this summer, I can then pay someone $100/week for a few weeks, and spend the other half on gas.. But I'll still be screwed when school starts again
I really can't afford that much. I should have put $100/month.. If someone could help for that much, I could pay them for several months...
That's not the point.
The point is, I'm very interested in HOW to do it. What the process is..Not the $100 figure.
Does that make any sense?
I'm trying to figure out HOW to do it. I doubt I could afford Gas/insurance/and my dorm if I payed much more.
<sighs> Colin
Re:umm.. (Score:3, Interesting)
$100 a month still sounds good to me. What kind of programmer/designer do you need? I'm good with bryce and stuff, I know C, Java, ASP, PHP, XML/XSLT... lots of other stuff. I've won writing contests, both poetry and p
Re:umm.. (Score:2)
We're doing the coding in AGAST, just because writing our own engine would be prohibitivly difficult (we had looked into a Python/Pygame engine, but it would take more time than our team has)
I'd love it if you could work either on Characters, but would, of course, also love Background Scenes, or Programming, depinding on what you feel most comfortable with. Of course, switching aro
Re:umm.. (Score:2)
I CAN'T SEE ANY DAMN CODE ON THAT SITE grrr... No source tarball with a note it's hopelessly broken at this juncture or anything. No CVS read even. I can't see anything to contribute to? I also don't see the license that the game will be released under.
Re:umm.. (Score:2)
There is a
We're using the AGAST engine
http://www.allitis.com/agast/index.html
The datestamps on the files are wrong. If you're interested, after looking through the code, let me know, and I can send a copy of my todo list. Perhaps some of it might interest you, or you might want to start on your own aspect.
Colin
Re:umm.. (Score:2)
The reason I say shooting for, instead of Are, is that there have been some useful routines in GPL'ed programs. If we ever had to use one of those, then the program would have to go GPL in it's entirety.
The program used to be listed on SF, but I removed it when SF stopped giving out their code, and started changing thei
Re:umm.. (Score:1)
Is that legal? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Is that legal? (Score:2)
You don't want one of your "volunteers" suing for back wages, do you?
Maybe giving them non-monetary gifts would be a good workaround?
Re:Is that legal? (Score:2, Funny)
Like a check for $100?
Re:Is that legal? (Score:1)
Re:Is that legal? (Score:2)
Re:Is that legal? (Score:1)
Re:Is that legal? (Score:2)
Not to mention overtime, workers compensation, unemployment compensation, etc. You better be really really careful about how you phrase things to make sure this person really is an "independent contractor."
Sucks that we have to have such stupid laws in the first place.
Re:Is that legal? (Score:2)
I see two ways around this... Pay by job, not by the hour. Then you are not paying a wage persay, but paying for a product or service. Another way around it would be to gift the $100 to the person.
Solutionstap (Score:5, Interesting)
We (Solutionstap) will have a labor-sourcing portal thing specific to paid open source projects shortly:
http://www.solutionstap.com [solutionstap.com]/pimp
$100 a week is a bit too low (within the US and most Western countries, at least)
Re:Solutionstap (Score:2)
Right, that's exactly the point! $100/week is nearly too much as it is. I don't know if I could even pay that, it's just a number thrown out there. So What DO I do? Is there no way to do this?
I hate it when I feel powerless to help my project. I believe in it so strongly..I just want it to suceed.
And I don't know what else to do.
Is there any solution for me, that Doesn't involve me taking out a loan to make a Free game?
Re:Solutionstap (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds like you are asking for business advice, you should of framed your question more like that (Judging by the offers to work for $100 a week, I guess it just didn't come across right). If your game is popular, you might be able to attract a sponsor, and using sponsorship money pay developers. But the days of high-advertising money are over. Have you considered contacting Sierra (developers of the original series)?
It usually also works the other way around, that you are first semi-popular, and then sponsored, as opposed to seeking sponsorship at an early phase. To get your project semi-popular, use some initiative to get the word out (you obviously are, by asking slashdot).
I cant really see any other source of revenue from such a project. Other projects that are applicable to business or consumer use have potential for support, customisation and other revenues (eg. MySQL, Snort, PHP, etc. etc.).
I would go into this more, but feel free to email me.
Re:Solutionstap (Score:2)
The situation with Vivendi/sierra is murky, and would take too long to get into here, but I don't think they would sponser it at this point in time.
I'm not asking how to get sponcership, I'm asking how to get people to work for free, or cheap
But, I guess, in the end, it comes down the the same advice. Get popular, then get help. The problem is, getting p
Re:Solutionstap (Score:3, Insightful)
Whether you can afford $100/week doesn't matter, some may contribute just magically expecting it. Snicker and mumble "suckers" to yourself. But slashdot is
Re:Solutionstap (Score:3, Insightful)
It Costs money to Join! (Score:1)
Re:It Costs money to Join! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It Costs money to Join! (Score:1)
Re:It Costs money to Join! (Score:2)
2. Hide a $30/month charge in the tiny print
3.
4. Profit!
Re:It Costs money to Join! (Score:1)
Re:It Costs money to Join! (Score:1)
Re:It Costs money to Join! (Score:2)
volunteer? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:volunteer? (Score:2)
I'm not interested in people who would only want Some money.. The idea is that, for many people, working on a OSS project is an investment, of time, of mental capital, and of their skill.
Getting people who are willing to volunteer is easy. Finding a way to get qualified people isn't. I'm trying to figure out a way to encourage people who are on the edge. People who would like to donate their time, but can't qui
Re:volunteer? (Score:2)
Basically, set a realistic monthly budget. Doesnt matter if its $20 or $2000. Doesnt matter where the money comes from. Then decide who the best contributers to the project are (include yourself in the running), and distribute the money as gifts. Someone working on the graphics end? Get them a new ATI 9700 or whatever is in fashion. Someone crunching numbers? A processor upgrade might come in handy. Pay someones DSL bill for the month.
You coul
Re:volunteer? (Score:2)
I don't see it as morally wrong, I'm not sure that its, what I see as the "theme" of OpenSource.
Volunteers are people who are willing to do things, what they lack in skill/talent is secondary to the fact they will do it for no price. They get something else out of it than money.
An employee, is a person who you pay to care about the company/project/work and is skilled in doing it.
If you start to dictate what an person who is qualified as doing and want them to care about the work, then you are really ver
Re:volunteer? (Score:2)
Let's see... (Score:2)
The average income for a programmer over there is about $5,850 [bizjournals.com], might be worth a shot.
Re:Let's see... (Score:2)
Please keep in mind, I'm really looking for someone who remembers Space Quest from thier childhood, and wants to help recapture the magic. I'm not looking to hire an employee for some rediculously low wage.
Re:Let's see... (Score:2)
You still can't. That's the general Indian salary for a month, not a year. The article is being disingenous in not making this clear.
Re:Let's see... (Score:2)
Sorry, off my head. Just checked with an Indian friend; that is indeed a yearly average.
Paying won't work (Score:3, Interesting)
This is true of most Free Software. Big and famous projects may have one or two full time guys; the donation sponsored ones like freenet are much less common than the company that has someone assigned to work 1/4 of their time on something they consider critical.
Here is my belief in how Free Software comes into existence:
1) FSF hiring people. I doubt the FSF would be interested in paying someone to work on this project, especially giving that you don't own the trademarks.
2) Someone writes something for their own use, and releases it because it feels like a waste not to, and they want to see where it will go, and they feel proud of it.
3) Some projects have businesses that pay an employee to make some contributions.
You fit into none of these, and $100 a week won't get you anything either.
If you want to spend some money paying people, you should save up until you have $500 to several thousand, and then pay as a lump sum contract to have someone write a particular interface other chunk of code you feel is beyound you.
But, your real problem is that Free Software authors tend to like to work on reusable stuff. You are mainly working on the actuall game itself, someone who wanted to work on the game engine woudl go over to that other project.
So what can you do ?
I suggest that you take what you have now and make a demo, one level or a short story completely separate from the plot of your larger game but in the same universe with the same characters. It can take as little as 5 minutes to play. Then distribute that as a way of attracting people who want to do art and plot work and coding onteh actual game. If you can bring some computers to a game or sci-fi convention of some sort to attract people that might work well also.
Paid Volunteers... bah (Score:4, Insightful)
Some people label this an "employee".
Volunteer: A person who holds property under a deed made without consideration. (Payment is consideration for those not in the know)
Employee: A person who works for another in return for financial or other compensation.
You are looking for very cheap employees, not volunteers.
Re:Paid Volunteers... bah (Score:2)
What I'm really looking for is a way to encourage people to volunteer time. I'm NOT looking to pay someone who doesn't care about SQ to work on the project. I'm looking for a way to encourage people to donate their own time..
Ie, "I want to donate, but do I really have the time with everything else in my life"..
That sort of situation. I guess, judging from you post and others, this isn't a good way to do it. Any suggestions on how I should?
Re:Paid Volunteers... bah (Score:2)
C'mon, give him a break! (Score:2)
And $100/week (or even $10/week) sounds more like a token of appreciation that any kind of financial reward (at least here, in the US. I bet there are many programmers, say, in Russia (my home country) who would not mind playing with the code AND making $100/week!
Look at it this way, if you'd get a check for $10
Re:Things to think about (Score:2)
Do Pink Elephants code well? I usually only see them when I'm not in much of a state to do a code review..
Managing a volunteering proj is an art. (Score:3, Insightful)
Now Volunteering is very much a community thing. Say you have a project for a cause that needs work and you know sincere programmers are out there. It will be best to advertise to local programmers since interacting with your neighbors and meeting them face to face increases sincerety to the cause. It can also bind them to work longer on the project. Ideally, setup a place where developers can physically come and sit on some workstations and develop. They will love the interaction with other developers from around and coke/chips offerings will complete the volunteering setup, getting the work done. Just dumping the work on someone remotely doesnt work on the sincerest of volunteers.
Now opensource software programming can be different. If it is something like gcc or the Linux kernel, the desire is globally strong enough for people to flock to it and submit patches regularly from 8 time zones away. And then, theyre working on a HUGE project with huge effects in the (computer) society. Their code will be used on tens of millions of computers. Thats the real motivation and the real itch. If you can duplicate that, or show the importance of your project to the community, you can expect help. Samba is pretty important. Everyone is using linux along with windows, and linux better look good. KDE is important. It shows the power of Linux on the desktop. Next are games projects like SDL, crystal space and mesa3d. Games are among the last remaining reasons to keep a windows partitions and is attracting a lot of volunteer programmers now. Keep a clean structure, an open environment, good responsive mailing lists, make great demos, always keep complete documentation and build 3d model/image/map import filters. Do not stamp your name all over the place (geeks are more egoistic than the rest), and that should entice a threshold number of developers.
Build a project, then get the volunteers. (Score:4, Interesting)
A friend of mine (who may post here, if he finds the time) is a lead developer on a successful open source project. The project has a donation button both on its website and in the installation. It's a subtle message (end users don't see the donation message, but administrators do). The project has a great product, so the donation model works.
My friend gets these donations, and shares them with the people that help make the product, and there are a lot of them: programmers, graphic designers, technical support (answering questions on the project's forums). The donations don't provide a lot for any one person, but they make a pleasant thank you (when you volunteer expecting nothing, and get something, it's nice).
Now, how did he build up this successful project where he can pay various volunteers? Slowly. He created a product that he himself would use, then released it to the world. At first, just friends used it, but then it grew. The WOW factor helped.
After a while, when the load became too big (programming, tech support, website development), he sent a message to users mailing list asking for help. People volunteered. Not all stuck around, but there has been enough volunteers to sustain the development and help it grow.
So, here's my suggestion: create something with wow factor that people can use/demo/play with. It can be small, that's fine, but give them something to play with, get excited about. Create a user mailing list. Make it really easy to join the list (and don't spam it). Pay attention to what the users say (address concerns if you can). When you need help - ask the list, see what happens. People who are interested will help. If you get revenue (donations, sales, grants), share a bit. Doesn't have to be a lot.
The trick is to get people excited about the project. Actually, that sentence sums up marketing pretty well.
In short, I think you should share more plan. (Score:5, Insightful)
People who make Free/OpenSource software happen want some kind of guarantee that their contribution will go back to the community. The sincere promises that you're considering several licenses won't cut it with many folk. Once you have the license in place you can post your stuff. Till then you can't really post much because you can't specify the conditions underwhich it can be downloaded/used.
One of the best ways an author knows what he might contribute to a project is downloading things and taking a look at the state of them. Whatever you've got will help this process along. Judging by the âoeStatusâ page at your site:
We're going through, one scene, one act, at a time, to get the job done. This aren't going to change much from month to month, but I'll try to keep you posted.
How about posting 2 completed scenes. I know it seems out of order to put finishing touches on 2 scenes when you have 70 to go, but it will let you share your vision with the gaming world and perhaps attract coders that didn't play the previous SpaceQuests.
Regardless, give'em something, anything, and don't make them sign up as developers to get to it.
Share the plan. Software development is a fairly quantifiable task these days. One thing that very much benefits a project is a clear development plan. I would suggest a unit of four hours resolution or better. If you make up a plan that starts with a list of features, and your story board, you should be able to map out the units of work needed to get it done. Miscellaneous tasks can be lumped together into four hour blocks but all the other coding tasks that bring about your story in an engine with the desired list of features should be included. This is a kind of super TODO list that will bring you three important advantatges:
Parallelism: code and artistry that might not be necessary till the end scenes can be started by those with the talent early rather than waiting for the herd to get that scene.
Progress indication: when you have the project mapped out into work units you can see/display/prove you're making progress even on weeks where all the progress was infrastructural, and didn't make any difference to the "scenes completed" counter. With the âoejust the end goalâ definitions, it's hard to see and share (as your status page would indicate).
Basis for reward system: Completing blocks of work can both decide where the author's name appears in the credits, and place him/her properly in the reward system.
As for the payment. I would highly recommend that you avoid letting money change hands in this. There are copyright/contract/wage/tax/underage/descriminati
If the reward system were mine to structure first off I'd make sure that everyone knew that their code was freely contributed under the chosen license. The $100 a week you have available is more than enough to inspire some help. Over the next 3 months that's $1200. If your income is steady and you can put that aside, I would set up a reward system like this:
The top 4 contributors get:
--A Radeon 9500 128MB card. (totals 548)
The next 4 get:
--A CL Audigy Platinum card (totals 264)
The next 4 get:
--A Razor Boomslang (totals 168)
Big reward totals: $980
And everyone else who completes at least one âoeacceptedâ unit of work gets a free âoeI made Space Quest 7â t-shirt.
I've helped plan a number of mediums scale software projects and would be glad to lend a hand. Cheers.
Re:In short, I think you should share more plan. (Score:2)
I'd reply to you in e-mail, but can't seem to find your address listed in your profile.
Regarding Licensing, We're releasing the code under a BSD (no advertising) license. I hadn't had a download/code link because I didn't
Re:"quality" people (Score:2)
But there are many cases where it just doesn't pan out. For instance, There have been some coders, who offered to help, but only knew qBasic. We aren't coding in qBasic. I asked if they would like to learn AGAST, and they told me that I should re-write the game in qbasic.
I'm not sure how to make that situation helpful. If they REFUSE to learn, I'm in a bit of a bind.
WRT doing it myself, I am, but I'm slow, as are ma
Informal reward system (Score:2)
I think there are two types of reward policies that will work for this type of problem:
1. A user of the program oor someone interested in what it could become puts a "reward" on the implementation of a certain feature or squashing of some bug.
2. S
Paid to volunteer? (Score:2)
How can it possibly count as volunteer-work if you get paid for it?
Bounties (Score:3, Interesting)
Just post on the project page things like:
-Peter
$100//wk.... (Score:1)
This place is doomed anyway... (Score:2)
Yeah, 'cause once you get all those volunteers knocking down your doors to code for $100/week, Vivendi is going to hand over the license to their trademark for another $100/week.
I went to the site because I was thinking about volunteering. Then I saw the cop
Priorities (Score:2)
"by its completion", you "hope" to have a deal?
The obvious worst case in that scenario would be horrible... what happens when the game is finished, and the developers have been paid, and Vivendi says actually, no, we talked about this with our lawyers again and decided we can't license this to you; sorry about that.
I won't say the project is doomed, since you still can work this out... but I do agree that I would never contribute to this project until that issue
Slimdevices is OSS and gives out free hardware (Score:2)
And it works... I got one.
My volunteering experience (Score:2)
code bounties (Score:1)
Maybe I would work for a little more than that! (Score:1)
Well here's a clue for you (Score:1)
Paying for volunteers (Score:1)