Working with ADHD? 1748
Famanoran asks: "I've recently been diagnosed ADHD ? and am now taking Ritalin. I've found that it helps me rather significantly, but I'm keen to try other things that may help. My question is to the ADHD'ers on slashdot: How have you coped with ADHD, and how have you found it affect your work performance? Do you object to having ADHD? Have you tried natural alternatives such as DPA/EPA (Omega3), 5-HTP (natural precursor to serotonin), and what were your results? Also - How do you find it working in groups of people, either as the only ADHD'er there, or in a group of ADHD'ers? Do you think that your ADHD contributes to your abilities technically, or is it a hinderance?" Previously, Ask Slashdot dealt with ADHD in children, now what suggestion do you have for the grown-ups, with the additional burden of a career, who find themselves in the same situation?
Me too! (Score:5, Interesting)
nuff said (Score:1, Interesting)
Well (Score:5, Interesting)
Speaking from personal experience (Score:2, Interesting)
Performance-wise, I'm sure I don't get nearly as much done on any single aspect of any one particular project, but the style I've adapted works for me: keep several projects going simultaneously and switch between them when you get bored or start to find your mind wandering.
I'm sure I'd make my employers happier if I could get the project-de-jour finished faster, but since what's important on any given day seems to be totally random anyway, in the long run, it hasn't seemed to cause any real problems. Meanwhile, I"ve learned to knit, ride a unicycle, and play the ukelele.
Read (Score:5, Interesting)
ADHD - No such thing. (Score:2, Interesting)
My $600 experience (Score:5, Interesting)
I also got nearly perfect on the Academy test itself.
That said, my parents ignored the diagnosis and I plugged right along with my straight 4.0 GPA. That's my experience with ADHD.
Oh ya, till grade 6 I did have trouble concentrating at school, but that because of the classroom being a riot of Ritalin-laced monsters. Went ot a private school for 7&8 and I got back on track for the rest of my learning career in public education.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
I've had it my whole life. (Score:4, Interesting)
In school I had trouble concentrating with any destractions including the teacher so nautrally I had lower grades though I fought like hell in high school to stay on the honor roll.
but the flipside is when something interests me I can shut everything out and pay attention it. I was great in band until I got bored and quit and I picked up my first programing language php within a relative amount of time and when I need to do something (I commonly debug others code) I can do it very effectively if not disturbed.
ADHD is basically a two edged sword and the treatments are the same you just have to take the good with the bad.
Sleep patterns? (Score:3, Interesting)
There is new research out dealing with ADHD and sleep:
Sleep deprivation and ADHD [drgreene.com]
Sleep deprivation effects [sleep-deprivation.com]
Sleep deprivation may be undermining teens health [apa.org]
Other sites from Google [google.com]
The opposite? (Score:3, Interesting)
On another note: I am the only person I know who has not been diagnosed with having ADD or ADHD. What percentage of those tested come up positive?
"Major League Baseball is using satellites to read your pocket organizer for more ad revenue! Only a tin foil hat will save you!", Bart Simpson on Focusin
"If I don't get me ridelin, I'll just keep on fiddlin'. I'm poppin' and sailin' man! Toot Toot!", Bart Simpson
Jargon file, Portrait of J. Random Hacker (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.ack.ca/jargon/html/Weaknesses-o
(some stuff removed)
1994-95's fad behavioral disease was a syndrome called Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD), supposedly characterized by (among other things) a combination of short attention span with an ability to `hyperfocus' imaginatively on interesting tasks. In 1998-1999 another syndrome that is said to overlap with many hacker traits entered popular awareness: Asperger's syndrome (AS). This disorder is also sometimes called `high-function autism', though researchers are divided on whether AS is in fact a mild form of autism or a distinct syndrome with a different etiology. AS patients exhibit mild to severe deficits in interpreting facial and body-language cues and in modeling or empathizing with others' emotions. Though some AS patients exhibit mild retardation, others compensate for their deficits with high intelligence and analytical ability, and frequently seek out technical fields where problem-solving abilities are at a premium and people skills are relatively unimportant. Both syndromes are thought to relate to abnormalities in neurotransmitter chemistry, especially the brain's processing of serotonin.
Many hackers have noticed that mainstream culture has shown a tendency to pathologize and medicalize normal variations in personality, especially those variations that make life more complicated for authority figures and conformists. Thus, hackers aware of the issue tend to be among those questioning whether ADD and AS actually exist; and if so whether they are really `diseases' rather than extremes of a normal genetic variation like having freckles or being able to taste DPT. In either case, they have a sneaking tendency to wonder if these syndromes are over-diagnosed and over-treated. After all, people in authority will always be inconvenienced by schoolchildren or workers or citizens who are prickly, intelligent individualists - thus, any social system that depends on authority relationships will tend to helpfully ostracize and therapize and drug such `abnormal' people until they are properly docile and stupid and `well-socialized'.
So hackers tend to believe they have good reason for skepticism about clinical explanations of the hacker personality. That being said, most would also concede that some hacker traits coincide with indicators for ADD and AS. It is probably true that boosters of both would find a rather higher rate of clinical ADD among hackers than the supposedly mainstream-normal 10% (AS is rarer and there are not yet good estimates of incidence as of 2000).
Re:Existance of ADHD (Score:4, Interesting)
The sad thing is that such medication often curbs great talent that could be channeled through other means.
Note that I'm not talking about any individual case (I'm sure there _are_ valid uses of Ritalin), just that, for the most part, it is being misperscribed because society wants children to "sit still and listen" when they (especially boys), have the need to roam and explore. People who do not go along with the status quo are labelled as having a disorder, when actually they are the ones who keep society living and vibrant.
Sadly, instead of channelling their talents, we are drugging them out of them.
I hated ritalin I found it killed my creativity (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Me too! (Score:3, Interesting)
I've found that just knowing I have ADHD was enough to straighten out most things. I've just accepted it and am thus better able to schedule my tasks. I know I'm going to get bored 5 hours into something, so I try to keep 3-5 things on my plate so I can hop around. Reading just puts me to sleep though. I've considered using drugs again, to help me out with all the documentation I find myself reading. But I've also learned that unless I have a specific task to accomplish that reading the docs for something, just to learn about it, really doesn't stick with me. So I pretty much just stick to reading enough to complete the task.
marijuana (Score:2, Interesting)
Have you ever used Marijuana? You might find that it reduces the HD part of ADHD.
Re:Me too! (Score:4, Interesting)
My other suggestion is to get a Digital Voice Recorder. Make notes to self and listen to them while walking around. This helps me crunch the more mundane tasks by making it into a challenge: how to do x more efficiently because I'm on my way to this or that place.
You're Not Alone (Score:3, Interesting)
But, what I've found is that an ADHD person makes an excellent "fireman." The truth is that you can sit in a room and catch a stray noise, or a grunt indicating frustration from one of your fellow employees -- and be there to help.
Talk to your manager. If he/she is less-than-a-troll, they'll work with you to use your "gift."
As for focus, I have gotten good at marking where I am in various projects and flitting between them without having to do a lot of ramp-up. Again, it's just adapting to the different way your brain works.
Now mine might not be as severe as some. I know that I got through LOTR books in three days of intense reading--because it fascinated me. But give me a 60-page manual to read at a desk and it will take me weeks to plow through it.
When learning new languages, I tend to bring the reference manual into the john with me. Laugh if you will but amazingly, it works very well. I learned C, Flash, Java, Python, PHP, piece-by-piece (ahem) using this method.
As long as you remain productive, you're an asset to yourself and your career -- find ways to make this work for you.
You may also find that you have a better-than-average ability to "read" people. In three other people I've met who are ADHD, we all had that in common -- my (admittedly parlor) theory is that ADHD people unconsciously pick up more of body language-type cues because they're paying attention to EVERYTHING and learn to process them at an early age...
For fun, next time you're in a restaurant, see how many distinct conversations you can follow.
Another thing that drives me nuts is when people in the theater are whispering to each other. They'll be a couple of rows back and it will break any chance I have of watching the movie. Of course my companions never hear a thing.
Interesting (Score:2, Interesting)
As for my story, I've gone through 3 jobs in 3 years, all in IT. Mainly as a programmer, but now I'm going out and visiting customers and thats working out a lot better..
However, I frequently (used to) look at my screen in utter confusion as to what I should be doing...
As for trying ritalin, I researched it for weeks before I let my doctor prescribe it for me, so yeah - I reckon I've covered most of the bases... my main reason for asking slashdot is because there is little information regarding ADHD in computer/IT works - at least that google can find..
I would continue this message, but my ritalin has worn off for today and forgot where my point was going...
Required for programmers (Score:2, Interesting)
One doctor said that the condition was probably a large factor in my success. The ability to jump from topic to topic meant I could handle the chaos of IT in the corporate world. The hyperactivity meant I could keep moving at a fast pace and accomplish more than normal people. And the other side of ADD is that sometimes I focus on one task so much that I cannot give attention to anything else, but that symptom defines the programmer "in the zone."
It definitely has a positive effect on my work life.
It definitely has a negative effect on long term relationships.
I have the choice of:
1. Being high-income and productive,
OR
2. Taking drugs to keep the relationships towards having a family.
I have chosen #1. I still hope to find a woman who wants to keep me as I am. I figure that I do not want a woman who could only live with me if I am drugged. But I almost regret the lost opportunity of having a family.
BTW, this condition is the primary reason for my sig.
It's easy (Score:1, Interesting)
I have a roommate who has this so-called disease, and from what I've seen he's just rude, loud, insensitive, undisciplined, and unfathomably selfish. Whenever he forgets something, he blames it on his ADHD. He's on three different meds -- including Adderall -- but he drinks and smokes all the time (which counteracts the drugs and/or produces horrible and dangerous side effects). Still, this isn't a problem, because he never takes the meds. He saves them up until exam time, so that he can pull week-long all-nighters on his legalized amphetamines.
The remarkable thing is that he can sit for hours, and hours, and hours, and hours, and hours playing Everquest, completely focused on this fake world. So, why can't he focus on the real one? Probably because it requires him to do real work and suffer real consequences for his failure. It's easier just to retreat into the sham of ADHD, get some meds and some sympathy, and agitatedly sniff and snort his way through life without taking responsibility for anything.
Any of you so-called ADHD sufferers, I have no doubt that there is a very, very small percentage among you who suffer a genuine chemical imbalance. But the rest of you are victims of an enormous scam. You're paying out the nose for solutions to problems that could easily be fixed by self-discipline, parental control in the formative years, and a little bit of critical self-examination.
But instead people are labeled as ADHD, given happy pills, and expect to have special treatment all through life. Well, here's the reality. A client isn't going to give a damn if you can't "focus" long enough to produce your deliverable. A boss isn't going to listen to your excuses that you have this strange disease which sounds to him like slacking off. Your family isn't going to understand when you get canned for being disjointed and lazy from the point of view of your supervisors (however different the reality of your life is). This is a brutal job market, and "I couldn't pay attention" isn't going to hack it as an excuse.
My advice is to get an intense, distracting hobby like parachuting or woodwork. If my "severely" ADHD roommate can sit at a desk for hours and dedicate endless cycles to getting some artifact in EQ, he can certainly apply that same energy to the real world. If you try to tell me that EQ is more vibrant than the real world, I will laugh at you.
No, ADHD sufferers should liberate themselves. They should decide here and now that this disease is nothing more than an excuse foisted upon them by society too busy to teach them self-reliance. And if you don't like to hear this, think about how dependent you are on others for your survival in an ADHD world. Your fixer^H^H^H^H^Hdoctor's pen determines whether you get your hit^H^H^Hmedications. You depend on people around you accepting that you have a disease whose existence is unproven except at the fringe.
Take control of your own lives. Decide you're going to run the show, not a lab-coated shill who gets a kickback on his Adderall prescriptions.
Re:Please be respectful on this topic (Score:5, Interesting)
There were times that I had too many things to deal with at once (one man tech support at a video streaming company), so some things would get put on the back burner and forgotten about and when I got overwhelmed he'd sit me down and try and be understanding by looking at it from an ADD perspective, so I lucked out I guess. But the sudden intervention was always a WTLW sort of thing, by the time he'd realized I was maybe forgetting things I'd already figured it out myself and take care of things.
I don't know, I have a hard time keeping it a secret because I find it to be such an enormous part of who I am, and I find that telling someone helps them greatly in relating to me. I can be quirky and way out there at times, so telling someone early on that I have ADHD helps people from writing me off as a crazy idiot, and more often than not they don't know anything about it and are interested in learning more.
Oh, and the usual reaction I get from people when I tell them I have ADD is a big "oooh, that's what it is about you I sensed!"
Re:ADHD is not as funny as you jerks think it is. (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps I'm lucky that I enjoy my work (technology management) so that I don't find myself getting distracted from it. I do have a difficult time paying attention to things that bore me.
Being an ADHD technology manager can be a challenge. Last thing everyone needs is a spaz interrupting everyone and making decisions before completing the requisite analysis. I have to constantly keep a "watch thread" running on my behavior to try and keep myself in line.
I'm fairly happy with my ADHD nature -- probably because it isn't quite as extreme as what some of the people here have described. I find that my "inner spaz" is a powerful energy source that I'm able to call upon to do great things.
The poster earlier who said it was a "two edged sword" is right on.
Re:ADHD - No such thing. (Score:2, Interesting)
You can also purchase many nutritional supplements that help a lot with ADD/ADHD.
But Ritalin is not encouraged, because it causes permanent problems.
Re:alternatives and cultural rant ahead... (Score:3, Interesting)
I myself only took Ritalin a few times, and I hated the way it affected me.
I had a similar experience when I was in the 10th grade. At the time, I was doing horrible in school (hey, it was boring and the people there all sucked) and my divorced mother and I had a mutual hate for each other. She'd nag and yell at me constantly and I would break things. So she made me go see a psychiatrist. A bad one, at that. After about 3 hours of tests and ridiculous open-ended questions (spread out over 3 weekends) he came to the novel conclusion that I had ADD, as it was called at that time, and prescribed to me ritalin.
Hooboy, that was fun stuff. Hard to describe what it felt like... the effect didn't last very long, maybe only about an hour and a half. I remember that my first class in the morning was economics or something. Without Ritalin: The normal routine was for the teacher to read the chapter for the day out loud to the class directly from the book and then give us the homework assignment which usually took the rest of class to complete. With Ritalin: I would totally ignore the class by reading one of my computer books instead and when the homework was assigned, I'd do that in all of 5-10 minutes and sit there for the rest of the class period admiring the trees outside or the periodic table of elements on the wall.
Pretty weird stuff. I stopped taking it after a week and half because a) it seriously started freaking me out and b) my scores on my economics homework were starting to approach the F side of the scale. I've never met anyone who had the quite same experience with Ritalin that I did, but most of all I'm glad that I figured out for myself that the psychiatrist was a crackpot and that I do not have, and have never had, ADD or any of its forms.
Re:ADHD a thing of the 90s? (Score:4, Interesting)
1) ADHD is fairly new. But people have always had it. Instead of being diangosed, they were often called lazy, unfocused, or hyper.
3) There are different types. I know of ADHD - Hyperactive, and ADHD Inattentive, and a combination. There appears to be different severities of ADHD, but I don't know how it can be quantified. I have "inattentive".
5) Certain brain chemicals like serotonin and dopamine and norepinephrine are suggested as being a factor. Wellbutrin, which can be used to treat both depression and ADHD, acts on reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine. I have heard anecdotally that MRI scans of patients with ADHD show significant differences from the "norm".
6) anecdotally, as I said, I've been diagnosed with ADHD. I would say I had a great homelife as a child. My parents loved me, never abused me, fed me well, I played a lot, mom stayed home, etc. I was always well behaved, but had a terrible time focusing.
So, is ADHD real? Well, I don't know.. like I said, some would just say it's laziness or lack of focus. But here are some examples from my life that were the basis of my diagnosis.
In the 1st grade, we shared a room with the 2nd graders. I was always held in at recess because I would pay attention to the 2nd grader teacher, not my teacher. On the other hand, I was always way ahead in our math workbook (she would say do page 20, and I would already be at 40).
Mom was often worried because I would "get obsessed" over something and ignore everything else for long periods. Maybe it was dinosarus, astronomy, dungeons & dragons, a girlfriend, etc.
My whole life has been a big cycle of starting something with incredible passion and energy, and then struggling to finish. I reached "Life Scout" by 14, and just barely finished my Eagle a week before my 18th birtday, for example.
Looking at my college transcrips, you see A's, C's and F's (but few B's and no D's). A's are when I could stay focused. C's are when I didn't do half the work. I got A's on what I DID do, and I was often praised on the quality of it. F's are where the teacher wouldn't accept only half the work, or would not accept work late, or I simply didn't go to class. There are many Incompletes that never got completed.
I had a class from last summer that I managed to get an "I" in. When it finally was "finish it or get kicked out of school", I was able to somewhat focus. I finished 3 papers in 3 days, but my friends kept calling to make sure I was on task. It's like pulling teeth sometimes!
Oh, and why did I get an "I" on that class? I couldn't force myself to finish the work. I was getting to go to Europe and spent my evenings labelling Star Trek recordings I'd made from the TV (about 6 per tape, 30 tapes or so). I had this feeling like I just needed to get that done so my house-sitter wouldn't see how unorganized I was.. I guess! She doesn't even watch star trek!
It's a bear to keep my house clean - there ALWAYS has to be a mess somewhere.. I can never get it totally clean! Even in basic training, I had a drawer that was a total mess (the one we could lock). Later in the army, my roommates all (different bases) all joked that my wall-locker exploded on weekends. I would just shove all my stuff back in there during the week.
For example, right now I'm in finals week at school! I finished two presentations this week - within an hour of presenting them. I have 2 finals tomorrow and the next... but I'm here on slashdot answering your questions.
I've often not done my own homework while helping others with theirs.
It's like I'm in a constant state of "something else is always more interesting", and sure it's just a matter of will to stay focused, but I even get unfocused from the effort of staying focused.
Meditation worked for me, biofeedback works too (Score:2, Interesting)
For a quicker way, you could try biofeedback (actually neurofeedback, because you deal directly with the brain). I took a seminar in it, and it is really powerful, and many people specialize in it. Basically it teaches your brain to alter its own chemistry on demand. It is now recognized by doctors to lower the need for medication in many diseases.
There is a lot of science behind it and I was really impressed with what I found out. They have identified 5 subtypes, 2 of which are that the brainstem lets in too much/too little information to the brain. (in the first type your own thoughts distract you because there is not enough input to your brain from the senses, in the second type there is too much input from the senses, distracting you. The type I had is where the left brain is overactivated, then poops out leaving you unable to focus without massive caffeine or adrenaline. It might be worth it to check out the non-drug options, especially for the long term.
Yes, let's frighten people, not inform them. (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not saying that they aren't necessarily right, but there are generally sources of information that have *less* interest in one direction or another. People who are researchers, not authors with books to publicize or, at the same time, pharmaceutical companies with meds to sell.
And, for that matter, said companies are usually fairly up-front about side effects, because people actually care more about lack of libido on SSRIs than the chance of tardive dyskinesia on an antipsychotic.
Now, I'm firmly of the belief that Ritalin's over-prescribed, especially with children. But I also have concerns about the fact that I can walk into my doctor's office, ask for Prozac, and he'll give it to me.
But in this case? The web page is pure scare tactics.
Of the people I've known in life who happened to recreationally abuse certain pharmaceuticals? It was never Ritalin. Of the people I've known with ADHD? None of them had trouble finding work because of the label, and only a few because of symptoms.
And then they start acting as if it's some global conspiracy or something. If Ritalin is over-prescribed, it's more the fault of the parents than the NIMH. And the manufacturer? Just trying to make money. Like every other corporation in the world. You can't fault a swan for swimming. It may not be *beneficial*, but it's not 'out to get you' or anyone else.
Even the charges that can be taken seriously--like that it sacrifices creativity and spontinaeity in favor of the ability to perform rote tasks? Makes me wonder if the author has actually held a real job anytime recently. Rote tasks are a part of the real world. The ability to do them? Quite necessary. Creativity and spontinaeity are great qualities, but less good at putting food on the table.
It's just bullshit. F-U-D. Preying on people who don't know any better.
Re:Hasn't really been a problem (Score:5, Interesting)
Quite frankly, you're right.
BUT
I think that the real issue you're talking about isn't the overdiagnosis of ADD, but actually the overprescription of Ritalin. I mean really... like half of the kids in my 4th grade class were on Ritalin. Even back then I knew it was ridiculous. For some people, it really is a problem, and it really sucks. I've known many people growing up who supposedly had adhd, and I think that many of them were just morons. However, SOME of them really do have ADD, myself included.
In my case, I wasn't really diagnosed until I was about 20, and at that point I realised how obvious it was all along, and I just hadn't realised what was going on. Anyway, my point is that for the folks who really do have ADD, it can be extremely frustrating to get along as a normal human being - simply because you seem for all the world like a normal human being, except that you can't get a damn thing done when you're supposed to, and at other times you're so productive it's like you are a different person. I've spent 10 years of my life trying to become that "different person" more often, because when I actually start cranking work out, I can work *FAST*. What totally sucks is that I have never figured out how to do it. I've tried ritalin on and off, and it sorta does help, but I can never remember to take the damn thing, and I dislike the side effects - particularly that it affects my creativity. Taking a pill which squashes your creativity _sucks_. I really should try something else I guess, since I've got to make some changes to myself before I go back to school (got kicked out after seven semesters of bouncing between majors and programs looking for something I could do productively).
*sigh* I guess my point is to cut people some slack when they talk about ADD/ADHD being a real thing.
Re:Please be respectful on this topic (Score:2, Interesting)
DON'T TELL YOUR BOSS!
Perhaps it is just a rare, isolated experience, but when I told my boss, he got a funny look on his face and the conversation suddenly died. Since then, he has treated me as though I have a highly contagious disease. The only reason I let him know was so he could understand why I can't do certain things (like juggle 5 tasks at once.) I will always do all tasks at the same time, switching when one gets boring until they are done. Personally, I think this works perfectly for my job, but the boss obviously doesn't think so since he cited my lack of "re-prioritizing" as the only reason he wouldn't recommend me for a promotion. (BTW, he knew about my ADD long before the review, so I wasn't telling him just to try and make an excuse for myself.)
So, unless you have a very good relationship with your boss, and s/he is extremely understanding, do not tell.
My experience with ADHD (Score:3, Interesting)
In school I'm one of the few people who makes the best multimedia presentations for school projects. I usually make incredibly creative webpages, bring my laptop the next day, and put it on a projector for the class to enjoy. It seemed to me that people with ADHD (or ADD), works much better when they have multimedia support, that means images, videos, audio, etc. Usually plain text gets me nowhere. I'd say that ADHD didn't effect my technical adversaries at all. In fact I think they're really creative.
I attend the San Francisco School of the Arts. I major in Piano. Piano is one of the hardest subjects to study for me. Sitting down at the same place and practicing for an hour or two daily, is not an easy thing to do because it requires so much attention and concentration. So what I do is I only practice at the first 15 minutes of each session, then go do something else, then repeat the same procedure. This way I can ensure that I'm getting the most out of each session. After 15 minutes I usaully begin to focus significantly less.
IMO, ADHD (without the hyperactivity) helped me in the arts. It has helped me develop a very passive and dreamy personality. I feel that this kind of personality plays a big role in studying the arts (Piano, in this case). ADHD has also helped me develop a creative mind for making webpages, multimedia presentations, and whatnot. Teachers and the principal have always enjoyed my web presentations, and the principal have decided that I can take over the school's website starting next year, with a few assistants.
For medicine, I have been taking both of these seperately:
*Dexedrine 10mg
*Dextroamphetamine 5mg
Initially, for the 5mg tablet, I've experienced some mood changes. I could feel the "ups" and "downs" quite significantly. When the medicine wore off I would suddenly more relaxed and in a more cheery mood. For the 10mg tablet, it made me even more sleepy at times, but it generally gave me a longer, more expanded time for focusing, at the scrafice of a direct focus (which is what the 5mg tablet does). I've talked with my doctor and since 3 months ago I've been taking the 10mg in the morning, and the 5mg afternoon, for my arts. (We have academics in the morning, and the arts during the afternoon). This has worked quite well.
But now here's the interesting part: My parents and I have decided to give a try at acupuncture. We believe that blood-flow plays a vital role in giving attention and concentration. Acupuncture can make sure the important parts of my body are well stimlated, and hopefully blood will travel through my body and into my brain more regularly.
Also I've found that doing excercise really helps the concentration. Aside from the fact that it pumps out adreneline, it puts your mind off to your physical activities for a change. When your mind is done with controlling your blood flood and so on, it's then completely ready to switch back to working anything mentally (especially something that needs sustained focus, like practicing piano, coding, etc.)
Well that's it for now. Just my two pesos.
Anthony
Re:Required for programmers (Score:2, Interesting)
Ritalin is a cocaine analog, slower and longer. The drugs mentioned here aid inhibition and adherence to planning for about everyone, not just for ADHD.
Short attention span is not ADHD, that would be called slow learning instead. Distractability is not ADHD, neither is boredom, and neither are narrow focuses and passions. ADHD is a neurological condition of physical unhibition when distracted; it impairs comparison of impulses and reflexes with the higher level planning located elsewhere in the brain. See the Sci. Am. article by Barkley, September 1998.
Re:Ok but first... (Score:3, Interesting)
I failed as a programmer not due to knowledge, but because I could not hold a coherent programming session, even without distractions. I went as far as copying the code locally and turning my network switch off. I just turned it on later because I was so bored. I knew I could do it, I just didn't want to. I wanted to do something engaging.
I've fought for ten minutes to get this far into the article with my copy of Gran Turismo staring me in the face across the room. Bah, fight on
So I recently switched to the overnight shift. This requires actual work since there are no calls (more money, less work, whee!) and it's the actual work that I fail to do. Actual work being: write technical documents, develop call flow charts, test software, etc. I can't pay attention.
So, for ADD folks, it's not being forced to work, it's being given one large task and then being told "have at it!" and then leaving that person alone. Not going to work. Lots of smaller tasks. Lists. Outlines. Flow charts. Whiteboards, whiteboards, whiteboards!
Variety is the ambrosia of ADD workers. I can do anything you want, just break it up for me and give me random pieces.
ADHD=Bored Person Syndrome. (Score:4, Interesting)
Why dont we name it BPS, every person with so called ADHD if you ask them why they dont pay attention to their task or job, they will tell you its because their task or job is borinng, its not exciting, etc.
I have not met one person who has REAL ADHD, meaning a person who cant even focus on doing what they like to do.
People with ADHD somehow manage to spend hours watching cartoons, playing video games, hacking on the internet, coming to sites like slashdot, so on and so forth.
These people however cant focus on their job, their school work, you know, the more boring aspects of life.
Theres two solutions, learn that life isnt all fun and games and that the majority of a persons life is just plain boring, and accept it. OR you can take pills, hide behind the ADHD, label yourself as inferior to "Normal" people, and try to get special benefits and privileges.
Now, if I had a job where I had to do Algebra and Calculus problems, suddenly I'd have ADHD as well, I'd fall asleep, or sooner look at butterflies before I could do that for 12 hours a day.
However, give me a job where I get to play PC games all day, or watch TV all day, suddenly I'm alert, and awake with no problem.
So go figure people, if you have ADHD, its not new, people have been lazy for centuries, people have had to do boring things for centuries, and thats part of life, adapt.
Re:Its called the "Lazy" gene. (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree its a different way of thinking, I'm just saying people shouldnt think of themselves as disabled, or flawed because thats the way its presented. People with ADHD have something wrong with them, or people with ADHD arent normal, when its not true.
People with ADHD are normal in every way, the only difference is, people with ADHD prefer to multitask and get bored focusing on one thing for too long.
This can be used to a persons advantage if they enjoy what they are doing, or it can cause them to never really do something quite right if they hate what they are doing.
You loved school, you did well and ended up in MIT.
Point is ADHD isnt a learning disability as people keep claiming, and I dont really think its some kinda chemical error, its more of a personality trait.
Dont tae the lazy gene thing literally, I'm just proving a point that ADHD is not new, people have been like this for centuries and in the past the label they were given was that they were lazy.
One thing I never hear people consider is that ADHD could be an effect of a higher than average intelligence.
Lets suppose someone has a really high IQ, and their brain is simply going at a pace thats too fast for current methods of teaching to actually compensate, the results could be ADHD.
Consider the fact that "gifted" kids are given that label based on the fact that school is so easy to them that they dont concentrate on it, how is this any different than ADHD.
If something isnt challenging why should a person remain insterested in it for longer than 2 seconds?
I'd like your opinion of what ADHD actually is, the brain disorder crap to me is just that, crap.
Re:Please be respectful on this topic (Score:3, Interesting)
I feel it is wise to let ones managers know that some combinations of activities just do not work. I am a highly experienced programer who excells at troubleshooting and solving difficult archtectual problems. I am also good at explainig complicated concepts, and tend to always try to help anyone who asks. Needless to say, I often end up being a local guru. I also excell at designing software systems that have complicated requirments, yet are simple and maintainable. So I end up being tasked to handle systems development. The thing is, there is no way for me to be doing the guru thing while I am also designing the next greatest architecture. I can do one or the other but not both at the same time. I helps to have a manager who knows not to put me in such a situation.
Re:ADHD a thing of the 90s? (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Did ADHD exist 100 years ago? Did people care 100 years ago?
Yes, most likely. A lot were called lazy or dreamers. Some managed to do great things, others ended up the town drunk.
2. What percentage of people are diagnosed with ADHD?
I don't know exactly, but more than actually have it. It is very real, but most likely overdiagnosed. It also however correlates highly with various problems such as stressful birth, and chemical abuse by the mother, which may be on the rise. As an aside, even when a woman stops drugs or drinking when she finds out she is pregnant, the damage is often already done, particular with such things as fetal alcohol syndrome.
3. Is there different levels of ADHD? Different advancements? Different Types?
Yes, which leads me to believe that at least some are completely different disorders, with different causes. Remember psychology isn't particularly old. When formal medicine was as old as psychology is now, humors were thought to be important. As a field it is still in it's infancy. In a thousand years, people will look back at what we now believe about psychology and wonder how we could have possibly thought that.
4. Would you say ADHD is over-diagnosed? In other words, I've met a number of people considered ADHD that I would consider perfectly normal.
See question 2, but you also learn coping skills. These skills work for a limited time (such as around friends, but can cause difficulty on people you are around more often. It's pretty easy to keep up a facade for a few hours, even without medication, but all the time is hard. Keep in mind too that they may have been medicated.
5. Is ADHD chemical or psychological? Both? Is there a difference?
6. Don't take this wrong, but I admit I've never met ADHD from what I would consider good parents (i.e., teach their children how to work hard and focus long); so the question, how related is ADHD to broken homes, absent parenting, stifled creativity, abuse, general over-disciplen, or the so called spoiled brat situation?
I'll take these two things together. There are people who have a verifiable chemical imbalence in the brain. This chemical imbalance produces symptoms of ADD. There are also spoiled brats. Some of these spoiled brats have symptoms of ADD. Since psychology studies behaivor and then determines a diagnosis, it can be difficult to tell them apart. It is roughly equivilant to listening to a description of heart pain and making a diagnosis of a particular heart condition. Unfortunatly, that's about the best that can be done right now. As I've said before, psychology is a field of scinece it is only around 100 years old.
7. I have heard before ADHD is related to stress and/or a lack of exercise on the part of the mother during pregnancy. Has either of these been in a study? Confirmed?
There have been a lot of studies done, and ADD correlates with stress on the mother, lack of exercise, too much exercise, drug use, alcohol use, and a whole lot of other things. The data is rather contradictory, and none of the correlations are particularly strong, but they are present.
There are also correlations to the diet of the mother during pregnancy, the child's diet, various diseases at a young age, as well as several other thing I can't remember and don't feel like looking up.
I tend to feel that ADD and most other psychological disorders are actually several diverse problems that merely present similarly. Until technology advances further than it has, it is hard to know. Certian types of severe indigestion feel exactly like a heart attack for example.
I'm not a rabid anti-psycholgist. My psyciatrist saved my life. I'm forever grateful to him and his profession, but I also recognize that it is a young science, and they are flailing around in the dark a lot. Still, I think they help more than they hurt.
LIFE is not as funny as you jerks think it is. (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously. I haven't been diagnozed, but life really sucks.
I've had massive problems trying to concentrate on things I didn't find interesting (which included all the school subjects), I'm sometimes bad-tempered and can't handle all social situations. Sometimes I also "hyperfocus", although for only a couple of hours. I also find it difficult to sleep at decent times, and I've very seldom slept (well) enough.
I really hurt my job prospects, my social life and the projects I attempt. Heck, I've been a complete failure in most of my projects, and projects initiated by others.
It's possible that I might get diagnozed with something like this ADD (I have Advanced Dungeons and Dragons!), or the Asperger syndrome, but whattheheck. Life is difficult for all the healthy guys too. At least life is difficult for all somewhat intelligent and (therefore) critical types.
What's this talk about the college grades? Why do they matter so much?
All in all, what works with me is NOT DOING THINGS I don't find interesting. Luckily, now that I'm 21, my parents won't make me do things and I've already had a couple of years to learn to live with myself. Sure, sometimes life still sucks.
Another addition; sure, some of you might have no alternatives to medication in your current state, but addictive medication will get you hooked. And other "reasons" for ADHD might be the twisted society, your parents or whatever. Clearly, everybody has problems with growing up and some need (professional) therapy, and some even need medication to get the therapy through, but, maybe there's such a thing as personality anyway and we shouldn't fight it with medicine unless its totally intolerable.
Don't take this the wrong way but (Score:2, Interesting)
I've found that most people's ailments can be cured with two important things:
1) If you're overweight, you need to get at or below your "ideal" weight. Do what you have to do to get there. If you have to starve yourself, its better for you than to be fat. This goes contrary to "common" wisdom, but doctors now believe being overweight is so bad for you, that its better to just stop eating for a few weeks. It will be hard, its worse than heroin, but you can do it.
2) Exercise. Not the wimpy "walk around the block". Exercise every night until you sweat, your arms/legs ache, and you're out of breath. Do that for at least an hour.
3) Eat less overall. Scientist are now finding health is increased by not eating every other day and eating slightly more on the "other" days.
4) Never sleep in late. On weekdays never sleep past 6:30. On weekends, 7:00 should be your "luxury" sleep.
I promise you it will "cure" most of your problems. The bulk of today's problems... allergies, gastro-intestinal, circulatory, and chemical imbalance are squarely on the shoulders of our lifestyle which is essentially eating constantly (you don't need 3 meals a day), and then watching TV. Finally, you sit around and complain how tired you are.
You'll think this suggestion is silly and trivial. I promise you that its not. You should probably be eating 1/2 of what you eat today. Virtually every person living in the western world eats too much.
Re:Theres no scientific proof for any of this. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Chemistry in ADHD (Score:5, Interesting)
I quit cold-turkey. In a glorious moment of defiance, I flushed the entire (very very expensive) bottle of mindsuppressor down the toilet.
My opinion - ADD / ADHD is some scientists made-up excuse for my (our) brain running faster than his. The jellous bastard ought to be so lucky.
I've learned to live with it, I've learned to avoid situations when I need to concentrate. I cope, I handle, and obviously, it's not that much of a problem. I often times think ADD actually helps my code.
I've been drug-free since that moment when I told my parents they should take the *ucking medicine and see how they like it -- then proceeded to dump the entire bottle. Quitting cold turkey didn't give me any side effects -- at least none that were worse than the stuff that damn drug did to me.
The best part was -- I could think again.
P.S. After quitting cylert, my math grade - which had gone from a 99% A the first two nine-weeks to a 68% (near failing) the third nine-weeks - went right back up to a 99%, and suddenly, everything made sense again.
To that jellous asshole of a 'doctor' that put me on that stuff, I salute you with one finger.
Re:The opposite? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm sort of the same way. When it comes to a few things my attention span is great. Elsewhere, I can't focus very well. Programming, driving (not commuting, driving), car racing games (see previous) I can sit there for days and be completely absorbed.
When I was in school, reading a book that sucked but was required reading took an act of God.
Brain imaging difference in ADD (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:A Day in the Life of an ADHD suferer (Score:2, Interesting)
Bravo!
Chelated Magnesium 200mg (Score:2, Interesting)
My longish story on MICA (Score:2, Interesting)
Drugs are not the only way to get serotonin. Try stimulating activities and socializing.
This will get your brain to produce more serotonin, naturally, and improve your mood.
Some background, I guess, followed by my story with depression, anxiety, and drug abuse.
Was a slacker in high school, never did assignments or homework, but aced standardized testing and got by.. would stay home weeks at a time from school creating webpages and programming an OSS mail & news client of mine. Got away with it fine (schools like smart kids), but my parents said my 'truancy' was caused by depression, and have said I've been depressed since 14 or 15 when I got my computer. Bullocks, pardon my proper English. Had a very few friends at high school, but was quite comfortable with them and spent lots of time on Usenet, Slashdot, programming, building my webpages, webring.org, the whole shebang.
Enter junior year of high school -- marijuana. Found out that it wasn't as bad as the folks had said, and I even enjoyed it. It became a more common activity, until it was daily. Was a bit shy around some of my new friends but generally OK. Enter <trying real life events here> coinciding with end of high school and semester off. Drug usage turned to full fledged drug abuse, had severe anxiety and was not dealing well at all with things. By this time, I had dug myself into one hell of a hole.
Few months later, decide I want to quit pot, so I go to my family. My mother suggests a detox for marijuana, so I went along with it (even tho I should have known there was no detox for pot), went to the hospital, long story short, they I was in an acute condition, no pot detox exists, so they put me in the psych ward. Diagnosis: "Depression & marijuana abuse". Well, now, I would say I wasn't depressed, but the anxiety was there. They don't really diagnose social anxiety at this place, and depression is a generic diagnosis. Whatever.. so they got me on Paxil, working up from 20 to 50 mg, which I thought would serve well. Said it'd take 6 weeks to kick in full. Every week I felt it a bit more and hoped for it to be better and my problems will be solved or for life to be be easier. I'll tell you I was going crazy at that place, mostly to get OUT.
Well, my time came, 28 days later I had put on 40 pounds, and was discharged with an outpatient plan and RXes for Paxil (depression & anxiety), Buspar (anxiety), Zyprexa (paranoia -- maybe caused by pot they say). For months after I was just hoping for the medication to kick in harder and do it for me. Real stupid, to trust your life to a drug instead of yourself. I neglected to do anything I really wanted and opted for laziness and not changing my lifestyle -- still endless hours online without much work, and marijuana usage. Went in with one addiction, came out with pot, cigs, and three pharms, at least one of which is addicting, and in worse shape. I'll tell you, I was not depressed until I was committed to a mental hospital. The stigma, the shame, the betrayal. Whatever, it was bad. I basically lost interest in everything and fell into a deep depression. This was early 2002. From March 2002 to June 2003 I have spend my days chain smoking on the Internet in severe depression. Prior to the hospitalization, I had treated my misery with drugs and food. Now, I was treating it with self-destructive behavior and cigarettes.
I've been in a deep depression and had moderate use of illicit drugs and constant use of legal and pharmeceutical drugs for well over the past year, and I was an emotionless, severely depressed, drugged up zombie. I first quit illicit drugs cold turkey, followed quickly by quitting cold turkey my heavy dose of an SSRI, anti-anxiety agents, and an anti-psychotic that was prescribed in haste, using a regime