Which Organizations Have Standardized on Mozilla? 833
andy brunetto asks: " We are investigating email clients to deploy as our "standard" at the college where I work. I'm trying to find out who is using Mozilla for their email. When I say "who" I mean organizationally, as I realize 99% of us geeks already use it. What organizations out there are rolling out Mozilla as their standard web and/or email client, and why? Yes, we are considering using Thunderbird, once it is final. Thanks!" Hopefully this will make companies realize that the Internet isn't comprised of just IE users.
Well, mine is (Score:5, Funny)
And yes, I AM looking to expand our current one man workforce.
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:3, Funny)
I don't know what you people are doing.
BTW Don't use File->New Window, click on the shortcut.
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:5, Funny)
From the bug you mentioned:
Follow these instructions EXACTLY. Open up your version of mozilla (1.4 or nightlies)
Make sure you have the recommended version of java installed (1.4.1 is recommended by the mozilla 1.4 release notes, or any other version will do)
Start up the javascript console and the java console in that order.
make mozilla fill 1/3 of your screen with the javascript console taking up another 1/3 and the java console the last 1/3.
put the 3 files (crapzilla.html, crapzilla.java, crapzilla.class in your root drive (c:\ or
type c:\ (or
wait till the counter counts down to 1500 and you will see a alert box. press Cntrl-Q to exit mozilla, click on the javascript console and hit file->exit, then quickly switch to the java console and hit the close button.
mozilla should now crash with the talkback window.
Yes, I'm so sure that this particular bug is going to prevent millions of people from adopting Mozilla-based products.
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally I find IE crashes much more often than Moz, but even if they both crashed with the same frequency it's a much bigger hassle to recover from an IE crash.
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:4, Informative)
Oh, please. These same systems work perfectly well with Mozilla et al on Windows, or with Linux. I've witnessed this personally. MSIE is a load of crap with the capability to bring down the entire operating system, and Microsoft has next to zero incentive to make it otherwise.
The only thing I can possibly grant you is that in Windows, drivers are generally written by the hardware manufacturer, as opposed to maintained by people who care about how well they work after the sale has been made. But then again, that's really a point for Linux, isn't it?
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:5, Funny)
Insert the following LINE into an html file and open it in IE:
<input type text>
I have IE 6.0.2600.0000, and this single line will crash IE producing the MS "talkback" dialog. I don't have to even load a java class file to produce the same type of behaviour. So obviously IE is superior!!!!
LOL
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:5, Funny)
Mozilla -> crash here and there
IE Exploder -> pop-up, pop-up, pop-up
Mozilla Email -> crash now and again
Outlook -> Mails to everyone in your address book of the latest Nicaragua money that was made by Penis enlargment pills.
The internal struggle of what to use continues for me!
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously though, how many open crash bugs are left? It seems that the one you point out is somewhat complicated to duplicate, involves Mozilla interacting with Java (something that seems to cause most browsers some consternation), and is not an issue for 99% of the web-browsing public.
Not that this has anything to do with Mozilla Mail in the least. A comparison between Outlook and Mozilla Mail or Thunderbird might be a little more on topic. It seems to me that all three are, like their browser counterparts, fairly stable, and offer a fair to decent email experience.
I find that a big draw for Outlook would be it's well designed UI (seriously, it's about the only thing it's good for!
Sadly most people seem to be insanely ignorant of this point, and just keep chugging along, happily flooding the internet with Klez, Bugbear, and Sobig.
I think that the great feature that could attract people to the Mozilla team's offerings is the built-in Bayesian spam filter! Much like pop-up blocking, and, to a lesser extent, tabbed browsing, this is the kind of feature you can mention to somebody, and they go "Oh, hey... that's pretty cool!" It's definitely something that people need, given how much spam is out there, but if people don't know about it, then they will content to wallow in mediocrity.
-Colin
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:3, Interesting)
Outlook is a good program. Hell, all of office is pretty top-notch if you ask me. I'd buy it if they had a Linux version (Crossover Office is good but it's still not nearly as good as a native app..)
Outlook has a lot of nice features, the in-box rules are very easy to create and manage, and has more then a handful of other features that, in my opinion, set it apart from many other e-mail clients.
When coupled with an Exchange
Re:Enough about Outlook already. (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea of using executable content (which is what a word document or spreadsheet really *are*) as a normal, everyday typical way to operate your business is what leads people to run things they see in their e-mail without thinking. They aren't thinking "I'm running this file". They are thinking "I'm looking at this file."
Re:Enough about Outlook already. (Score:3, Interesting)
Has anyone even come up with a theoretical exploit that could do this. Maybe they have, but I've never heard of it.
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:5, Interesting)
If you think the answer is zero, or that commercial software is any better you would be mistaken. The only difference between Mozilla and other software is you can read the bugs and therefore gauge the risk and even produce workarounds if necessary. With commercial software bug reports disappear into a black hole - they might be fixed or they might not but you'll never know until an update appears and you can try to replicate the problem.
Re: Until Mozilla Crash Bugs are closed... (Score:4, Insightful)
Now consider the same in Mozilla. Mozilla crashes, you don't know why blah blah. Your first port of call is Bugzilla and best case you find the bug is already logged. Reading through the comments you learn of a trivial to workaround (e.g. disable a pref). Better yet someone has already produced a patch so you roll your own version of Moz and apply it or wait for the next and reasonably frequent milestone releases. Problem solved. If there is no bug, log one, track it, ask the community for help. If you get no response, pay whoever it might be Sun, Red Hat, Netscape / AOL $$$ to fix it.
So worst case you're no more out of pocket than you were with MS. Best case you get fast and free support, a detailed description of the issue and progress updates as it is worked on.
Re:99% of Geeks?? (Score:3, Insightful)
I would hope that 99% of geeks were using a browser other than IE. But considering the existance of Opera, Konqueror, etc, this non-IE browser does not need to be a Mozilla-based browser.
Unfortunately, this statistic is probably not correct, and there are a lot of geeks using IE. But can they really call themselves geeks then?
Re:99% of Geeks?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:99% of Geeks?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Done properly, probably not. I pulled this on my cousin. I used the IE skin and switched the icons, and loaded the plugins, and it was 2 months before she noticed. And she only noticed because the games at MSN wouldn't work (big surprise there!).
I've got a couple clients that have formally switched, using OE only for sending out because the Access guy can't figure out how to link Access t
Re:99% of Geeks?? (Score:5, Informative)
46% Netscape Navigator 5
34% Internet Explorer 6
7% Internet Explorer 5
6% Opera 7
2% Konqueror 3
1% Opera 6
1% Safari
< 1% Netscape Navigator 4
< 1% Konqueror 2
< 1% Internet Explorer 4
< 1% Netscape Navigator 3
< 1% Opera 5
Re:99% of Geeks?? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:99% of Geeks?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Your sig link? I have sigs turned off, and I use Mozilla. Who's to say most IE users aren't smart enough to turn sigs off, and the Mozilla users are. Though real geeks make their own browser from scratch. ;-)
Re:99% of Geeks?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmmm... I personally cant think of a single person I know who uses Mozilla, Opera, etc. We are all IT geeks, and we all are gladly using plain ol' IE.
Maybe its because we all just like stuff that works, and dont feel the need to complain about useless things like alternate web browsers.
Actaully, I tried out Opera when I first heard about it, and stopped using it for the same reason I switched from Nutscrape to IE 3.02-
Re:99% of Geeks?? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:99% of Geeks?? (Score:5, Interesting)
Funny you should mention speed. I was doing a demo of pop-up blocking for someone. I loaded a site I knew used them in IE, then in Mozilla (with blocking turned on) The Mozilla page load was noticibly faster. Mozilla was started later yet was finished while IE was still loading the page. Now this is hardly a scientific experiment or benchmark, but it impressed the user. The fact it loaded faster and no pop-ups to deal with made an excellent demo. The blocked pop-up may be why it loaded faster though, but hey, a good demo is a good demo.
mail != web browsing (Score:2, Redundant)
Submitter said:I'm trying to find out who is using Mozilla for their email.
Editor adds: Hopefully this will make companies realize that the Internet isn't comprised of just IE users.
The submitter asked about using Mozilla for email, not webbrowsing.
Re:mail != web browsing (Score:3, Insightful)
Moreover, I fail to see how tallying "We use Mozilla" would go very far in convincing anyone that Internet users aren't predominantly IE users, anymore than tallying "Who uses IE" responses on an MS-fanboy site would indicate IE's pre-eminence.
To build a convincing argument here you need scientifically conducted surveys, not optional queries aimed at users of a particular browser on a niche site with considerabl
Re:mail != web browsing (Score:3, Insightful)
Sun does (Score:5, Informative)
You neglected to mention from what... (Score:5, Interesting)
There are many, many internal applications at Sun that are written for Netscape 4.7 and don't work in NS6/NS7 (don't ask me how, but it's true. It boggles my mind, too.) So yes, Sun has 40,000 employees still using the broken, non-standards-compliant Netscape 4.7 as their primary browser, and they've been trying to "transition" away from it for over 2 years now.
Re:You neglected to mention from what... (Score:4, Informative)
Most of the reason for 4.7 still being in use is old-timer inertia. Most of the new crowd is using Linux and Konqueror or Mozilla anyway. Linux is here, Unix on the desktop is dying. Well, maybe not inside Sun...
Not bullshit. (Score:5, Informative)
I worked at Sun until May 2002. I have many friends who still work there whom I speak to daily. I often ask them about Netscape 4.7. I've long since dropped support for it on my own websites, but I'm hoping that the last few remaining holdouts will finally leave it.
If you still don't think I'm for real, ask any Sun employee what "dtmail" is. They will know exactly what you are talking about. Most of them will then go on a rant about it, just like I used to when I worked there.
"What 'standards' are you refering [sp] to?"
How about CSS1? Or nested tables? Or really, any standards-compliant markup? Don't even get me started on CSS2 or any moderately-complex CSS1 markup. My websites all validate to XHTML 1.0, but they don't work in Netscape 4. If you seriously believe that Netscape 4 works with web standards, I invite you to Google Netscape 4 sucks [google.com] and read the many, MANY articles posted by infuriated web developers.
Personally, I use Mozilla, and it's great as far as standards-compliance goes. Netscape 6 is decent and Netscape 7 and 7.1 are fine. NS4, on the other hand, is a complete joke and a waste of time to develop for. It needs to disappear once and for all.
Half.. (Score:5, Informative)
The other half is ALL IE, Outlook, Exchange.
99% of geeks? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:99% of geeks? (Score:5, Funny)
on systems i administer, mutt is symlinked to "more".
pine is a shellscript that:
1) generates an alert log.
2) reduces the user's disk quota by 10mb
3) runs "more"
more. what more could you want?
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:99% of geeks? (Score:5, Funny)
err
great post btw, lol
Re:99% of geeks? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:99% of geeks? (Score:3, Funny)
I agree but with one small modification. "Email clients are for geek posers"
telnet myserver.com 110
USER me@myserver.com
PASS secret
LIST
RETR 1
DELE 1
QUIT
Telnet is the one true way of retrieving your email. If everybody used telnet we wouldn't have these problems with viri.
Re:99% of geeks? (Score:4, Funny)
You people and your "workstations".
Re:99% of geeks? (Score:3, Funny)
Too true! If buses stop at a bus station, and trains stop at a train station...
Real people send their mail using a pen and paper, even if it's to the guy in the next cubicle. What else did you think those irritating orange "internal post" envelopes were for?
I must be one of the 1% (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I must be one of the 1% (Score:3, Insightful)
What's more. (Score:5, Informative)
Note: This is an HTML message. For security reasons, only the raw HTML code is shown. If you trust the sender of this message then you can activate formatted HTML display for this message by clicking here.
"Here" of course being clickable. Its pure entertainment looking at some of the truly evil Outlook-exploiting shit in some of them. I can easily read mails sent to me from trusted users with clueless clients and still not pull images from spammer servers. Kmail Just Works.
Re:What's more. (Score:3, Interesting)
Uh, what? (Score:3, Insightful)
Really? Everyone I know uses pine, Eudora, or Mail.app - you should be careful about making assumptions based on your own personal circumstances before you try to extrapolate data for use at an organization.
Agreed. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Agreed. (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, many large enterprises standardize on Outlook because they use Exchange as their mail server. They do this so that they can use extra mail features that Exchange provides, like marking messages for follow-up or recalling messages. Admins at my former employer used follow-up flags to remind us that, say, we had to fill out an HR form by a certain date. The e-mail would be flagged for follow-up by such-and-such a date, an appointment would be added to the calendar (if memory serves), and the admin can configure a reminder to pop-up on my screen if I don't clear the follow-up flag by a certain amount of time before the deadline.
The real biggie is the ability to see everyone else's calendar and schedule meetings based on that. You can also do things like marking individual attendees as optional or required; setting up a uniform reminder time that will appear on all attendees' screens; replying to a meeting request as confirmed, tentative, or decline the invitation; proposing a new meeting time; etc. It's actually pretty powerful, and works well in large, beauracratic organizations. You can do similar things with tasks and the journal.
However, I have recently jumped ship to a small company, and much to my delight they are getting off of Outlook and onto Mozilla Mail because the "desktop engineering team" (two guys) are big into OSS
try mutt (Score:3, Informative)
Everyone generalizes from one example... (Score:5, Funny)
-Steven Brust [dreamcafe.com]
Re:Uh, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Uh, what? (Score:3, Interesting)
Principially you're asking the right question. Anyone who's believing that 99% of all geeks use the mozilla MUA, hasn't thought more than half a second about that subject. Maybe even hasn't thought at all.
But IMHO even pine is no more a geek's favorite MUA. Most geeks I know use mutt. Maybe with pine key bindings because of being used from pine in former times. ;-)
But I think we should make a big difference between several groups of geeks:
One Suggestion (Score:5, Informative)
Re:One Suggestion (Score:5, Funny)
Check this URL [mozilla.org] for a nice tutorial on hacking Mozilla / Phoenix / Firebird.
Re:One Suggestion (Score:3, Interesting)
it would be very simple to implement a simple IEAK type tool on top of it. I
just don't think there has been enough demand yet.
I use mutt... (Score:3, Funny)
My company is - but I use Eudora. :) (Score:2)
It's tough to do. (Score:5, Informative)
I've installed the Netscape versions of Mozilla on the systems I maintain, and urge people to use them. It seems to work.
Re:It's tough to do. (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Set Mozilla as the default browser. (Just make sure it doesn't also take over GIF, JPEG, etc. files as well... mine did that here at home and I can't seem to wrench it back from Moz using Tools/Folder Options, but that's another story.)
2) Remove IE from the start menu and quick launch bar.
3) Profit!
Now, it's true that "iexplore.exe" will still be around somewhere, and if people really want to use IE, they can find it. But you know what -- if they're that hell-bent on using IE, let them use it. Most of your employees, however, will be just as happy with Mozilla as their default browser, so you shouldn't hear many complaints.
Re:It's tough to do. (Score:5, Interesting)
Downloaded Pheonix (it was not yet FireBird) and unzompressed it.
Ran Phoenix and installed the IE skin.
Edited the Phoenix toolbar to be quite a lot like IEs.
Set Phoenix as the default browser.
Deleted the IE links from the desktop and start menu.
Added links to Phoenix using the IE icon with the text "Internet Explorer" to the desktop and start menu.
Quietly left.
I'm not sure what impact this really had, but I did it on 3 computers at differing times. I do hope I caused some havoc, but not as much as I hope nobody noticed.
Re:It's tough to do. (Score:3, Interesting)
Couldn't you just rename the iexplore.exe file after installing the latest SP and 'hiding' IE? Programs that use the MSIE libraries will still work, but Internet Explorer itself will not. Am I totally wrong here?
Columbia University (Score:5, Informative)
99% ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:99% ? (Score:5, Informative)
50% MSIE ish? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:99% ? (Score:3, Interesting)
we are (Score:4, Funny)
Not many.... (Score:5, Insightful)
As a web developer, I use Mozilla because it's stricter about standards, and pages that render well in Moz almost always look the same in IE, while the reverse isn't true. One coworker gives me a (humorous) hard time about my refusal to use Microsoft FrontPage or IE when our company is unquestionably "a Microsoft shop".
Seems like there's no businesses -- certainly not incorporated ones -- want to hire experts in free software like Linux, Apache, PostgreSQL and Mozilla when 2kServer, IIS, SQL Server and IE are what all the other big companies are using first. Mozilla's got an uphill battle, and it knows it.
Re:Not many.... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Not many.... (Score:3, Informative)
Then you can't be doing anything in the least bit complex with HTML or CSS. Try <object>. Try virtually any CSS 2 selectors. Try about half the CSS 2 specification for that matter. Try alpha channels with PNG (and no, having to resort to javascript or proprietary filters doesn't count).
Purdue (Score:5, Interesting)
IBM (Score:3, Interesting)
I use it at several clients (Score:5, Informative)
Standard email client sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Standard email client sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
While the Mozilla email client may or may not be the best solution for your environment (I haven't used it, so I can't form a valid opinion (like that's stopded me before!) on it), but a standardized client is vital if your IT department is going to get anything done at all.
My office has a very tightly controlled Standard Desktop Model. Every desktop system uses the same basic model. They all have the exact same version of the exact same program and they all have network shares that mount to the exact same place. With the exception of specialists who have additiona software installed for their needs, any user can sit down at any desktop in our state-wide agency and log in and get right to work. Everything they were using at their desk will be there (save the red stapler, I kept that).
How hard is it to learn a second email client as a user? After a few days you pretty much know how to use the basic functions you need to use to get your job done.
Re:Standard email client sucks (Score:3, Insightful)
As a geek though I don't really let such things bother me. I can deal with ten different email programs as easily as one. Let the users go crazy - I can handle it. I can grok new software in a few minutes time and really 99% of your users will choose one of 2 or 3 most popular programs in a given problem domain. I could even say that having multiple programs is good because it breaks thin
Re:Standard email client sucks (Score:3, Informative)
There is no way to type in a new from address while composing. There is only a drop down list that has your accounts in it.
Go for standard email server, not client. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry kid, but where I come from, 99% of people use Outlook and/or Exchange. Exchange or not, Outlook 2000 and XP are very capable email clients, and the easy calendar/contact integration and Palm synchronization make them the real winners. (By the way, there is a patch for Outlook 2000 that disallows opening of any harmful attachments. This comes standard with Outlook XP. I switched from Eudora two years ago and I've never even been able to open a virus-laden attachment, let alone send one, as it asks for confirmation when a program tries to automatically send something.) I browse the web using Mozilla (I'm using it right now), but Outlook wins hands-down on email.
If you want to standardize, standardize on the server side, not the client. Most organizations I have worked at standardized on IMAP (whether they did so through Exchange or another IMAP server.) IMAP has the advantage of keeping everyone's email on the server so people can access it through the web, at multiple computers, etc. The disadvantage, of course, is disk space -- you're going to need at least 10MB per account, and preferably 25MB or more, which quickly adds up. Plus, you're going to need to find a reliable way to back that up, and tape drives are expensive.
My recommendation is to standardize on IMAP, set up some webmail, and have some HOWTOs for several email clients. This being a college, you're going to find that most everyone will be using Outlook Express. Include HOWTOs for Mozilla, OE, Outlook, and whatever you choose as your webmail solution (there will be people who use the webmail exclusively.) As long as you set the standard on the server side, I don't think it's necessary to set a standard client -- just a recommended one. If you want that to be Mozilla, so be it, but understand that not everyone is going to want to use it.
Re:Go for standard email server, not client. (Score:3, Interesting)
Dragging an email from the inbox to the calendar opens up a new appointment with the message as the text and KEEPS the email in the inbox. This is great. But dragging a message from the inbox to my *saved messages* folder is not so great, it moves the message (or if I right click, it copies the message) to this new location. If bill sends me the m
One more that is standardizing (Score:5, Interesting)
The main reasons we're sticking with Mozilla and not going IE?
Platform availability. It's available on Windows, Linux & Irix.
Not MS
Spam filtering
Doesn't propogate virii
Low/No cost
Why are we going with Mozilla instead of Netscape?
Available on all above platforms.
Doesn't have the AOL marketing embedded in it.
Windows installations will be WinInstalled, so all plugins & customizations can be centralized.
Hope it helps.
MAIL, not browser (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't want HTML in email. I don't want to use monolithic programs. I want a mail client that works even if the browser should crash (or not exist, for that matter). I want to be able to access my mail even when I have no GUI available.
mbox format and any mbox-compliant mail client will do that for me. In a pinch, I can even use cat/tail to read mail and telnet or pipe to a mail server to send mail.
I'm sure there's s
99% of geeks use Mozilla ... for *email*? (Score:5, Interesting)
C'mon, I understand using it for web browsing, but email?
Most of the posts that I see in mailing-lists are written with Pine, gnus (emacs' mail thingy), Mutt [mutt.org], KMail [kde.org] or MS Outlook. Maybe there's some Mozilla too, but it's not near "99%", not by a extremely long shot.
Ob-"I use": I'm very happy with Mutt myself, and my friends use also Mutt or Pine. Maybe we're all oldschool guys :-)
Ob-"Kids these days": Kids these days! When I was your age, we didn't have email. We had to shout to each other from miles and miles of distance! Sore throats were quite usual, trust me :-)
Why standardize on a product? (Score:3, Insightful)
For E-mail, most use Eudora, some use Outlook, pine or Kmail.
None that I know of use their web browser for E-mail.
Why do most organizations think they need to standardize on products rather than protocols or document standards? OK, the "IT department" thinks they need to provide support, but in many cases you could loosen up a bit... Use widely adopted protocols. Avoid proprietary protocols and formats that lock you in with a specific product.
University of Chicago (Score:3, Informative)
You can see a picture here [uchicago.edu].
Wake Forest, as of this coming fall (Score:5, Interesting)
Here at Wake Forest, we have a program where all students receive IBM laptops through the university (it's included in tuition). These come preloaded with a lot of expensive commercial software that most students couldn't afford to purchase legally if they weren't going through the university. The interesting thing is that this gives the university a great deal of control over the initial setup of students' machines (including those who are non-CS majors). We can customize them all we want or delete Windows and put Linux on there but the vast majority of students are just using what comes on there.
Until now, the Windows machines were actually all set up to use Netscape 4.79 and its mail client and to hide IE and especially Outlook. This was done (I assume) for security reasons, especially considering that virtually all the virus email I've received from on-campus mailing lists, etc is from people who ignored the preconfigured setup and installed Outlook Express anyway.
This fall, they are moving to Mozilla 1.4 (I'm guessing that the reason is the similary to the old Netscape interface). They decided that Mozilla 1.4 was superior to the newer Netscapes and are deploying it over a year on about 5,500 installations.
Combined with another new pilot program to preinstall Linux dual-boot setups for CS students here (and give us bigger hard disks than other students), open source seems to be on the rise here.
Our University (25k) (Score:3, Interesting)
At least the Mozilla project has figured out that might some of us are interested in some parts like Firebird, couldn't care less about Chatzilla and Moz Mail and whatever else they put in there. They're going from one big monolith to smaller apps that do their thing - sounds almost like the old Unix design profile, and I think that's a good thing...
Kjella
Investigating? (Score:5, Interesting)
Do you know why IExploder and Outlurk have %95+ market share? It's not because Microsoft is a monopoly, or because they are better products, or because Bill Gates is a member of the Trilateral Commission or the Bilderbergers. It's because of the herd instinct. People want to use the same software that other people in their group use. Corporations use IE/Ol because other corporations do. Geeks use Linux because other geeks do. There are rare exceptions, but by and large human beings rival cattle in their ability to be molded by the opinion of their peers.
I get the impression from your question that you're seeking to follow the herd. If you were one of the rare exceptions then you wouldn't care what other companies are using, and just deploy Mozilla. But since you're asking, it seems to me that either you or someone above you needs the assurance that using Mozilla in an organization isn't new, innovative or radical.
You're not asking about problems others have uncovered while deploying Mozilla in an organization. That's not your concern at all. Instead you merely want to know who is using it. If you want to be a individual unswayed by the unthinking opinion of your peers, then just go deploy Mozilla. But if you just want to make sure your head isn't sticking above the level of the herd too far, then stick with the Microsoft products that all the other organizations are using.
Why can't people... (Score:3, Insightful)
My company does... (Score:3, Informative)
A Mom/Mozilla story (Score:3, Informative)
Once I upgrade her hardware (she's dragging her feet, the 350 k6-2 is still ok) I'll move her from WindowMaker to KDE 3. No offense WindowMaker - you rock! - but she needs KDE.
99% geeks use Mozilla for email ?! (Score:5, Insightful)
This is 100% wrong and I don't understand why nobody wrote it yet. If 99% geeks use Mozilla for mail, then who uses Mutt, Pine, or Evolution? Mainstream people?
Re:99% geeks use Mozilla for email ?! (Score:3, Funny)
297 use Mozillamail
1 uses mutt
1 uses pine
1 uses evolution
Seems like 99 % to me
Yes, due to laziness (Score:4, Interesting)
My recommendation was weak not due to dislike, but simply because I didn't have a lot of experience with Mozilla mail so I didn't know where it falls on the sucks-to-rules scale. But I figured it would probably work "good enough" so I gave it to them and yes, it worked.
If I didn't know Mozilla was good, why did I give it to them? Pretty much just to avoid having to spend time on research. I know there are very likely some good mail clients for Windows, but I don't know what they are, and didn't want to spend a lot of time evaluating software. So I was looking for an easy way out.
Another easy way out would have been MS Outlook since I think the machines in question probably had it preloaded. But most of our email comes from The Internet, so obviously that would be a stupid choice. If a worm/virus/trojan comes in here, it won't matter what "dumb user"'s fault it is, it'll be my mess to clean up. Just because I didn't want to spend a lot of time on research, doesn't mean I could just be completely irresponsible.
Yet another easy way out would be to use a Windows port of Sylpheed, since I know Sylpheed pretty well (and I actually like Sylpheed except for it's seemingly single-threaded nature). But the day (hour?) I was working on this, all I found was one port of Sylpheed-Claws (the bleeding edge version of Sylpheed) and it was very crashy. So I gave up on that right away (remember: I was looking for easy way out).
By picking Mozilla, I didn't have to spend time researching it, and I was able to go on to the next project. If it turns out to be inadequate for some reason, then I guess I'll have to spend more time looking. Perhaps saying we're "standardized" on Mozilla would be an overstatement. We're "standardized" on IMAP and SMTP, which is how things should be. [pedant mode on] Those are standards, Mozilla is just an implementation.
University of Saskatchewan (Score:3, Informative)
Mozilla is the standard in most of the labs. The only ones that don't have moz are the really old machines, which use Netscape 4.something.
European geeks don't use Mozilla (Score:3, Interesting)
ever since, say, ages ago, Mozilla had the option of using quoted-printable with News and mail. not News or mail, but News and Mail. so to those of us who need Latin 1, Mozilla could be used for News or Mail, but not both.
And that's why we European geeks eschew Mozilla.
How about printing out Web pages on Web sites? (Score:3, Interesting)
URLs for examples:
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.as
http://reviews.cnet.com/Toshiba_Port_g__3505_Ta
Thank you in advance.
Re:ActiveState (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I wouldn't touch the mozilla e-mail client... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Nope (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Graphical E-Mail?! (Score:3, Informative)
Pine lets you see images. Turn on Xterm mouse reporting and assign an image-viewer helper app. Then just click on any image name and it'll pop up in a little window.
While I have my marginal gripes from time to time, Pine is basically the perfect mail reader from what I can tell. Certainly the fastest for cruising through lots of mail, dealing with attachments, etc.