Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Portables Hardware

Laptops for Warm Climates? 67

Posted by Cliff from the where-it's-100-degrees-in-the-shade! dept.
macrostiff asks: "Where might one locate a product comparison for laptops and notebooks that includes environmental specifications? Why do I want this? Well, I'm on my second notebook that will not work outside of a climate controlled environment. In the real world, one often encounters temperatures above 35 degrees celcius. I've been through two notebooks for which this was the specified operational limit, which was not published, and the manufacturer or dealer led me astray until there were problems. In particular, I am looking for a notebook with 900MHz or faster CPU (fast enough to play DVD's) which will work under full CPU utilization at 40 degrees celcius (104F) and 90% relative humidity. While a bit extreme at the limit, 35-38 degrees and 80% relative humidity is not uncommon for those of us who work in areas with no air conditioning. Oh yes, it must run Linux!"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Laptops for Warm Climates? More

Laptops for Warm Climates?

Comments Filter:

  • Ug.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Randolpho ( 628485 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:33PM (#6535199) Homepage Journal
    I still have blisters on my legs from the last time I took "laptop" at its word.

  • NEC Daylite E120 (Score:3, Informative)

    by toybuilder ( 161045 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:36PM (#6535234)
    I have an NEC Daylite E120 laptop which works great outdoors with the sun beating directly onto the LCD. I don't know if 35 degC sustained is going to kill it over the long term, but a notebook that was designed to be for outdoor use would, I expect, do better than many.

    The Panasonic Toughbook series is also supposedly rugged.

  • Close... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Justen ( 517232 ) * on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:36PM (#6535239) Homepage Journal
    Not perfect, but close.

    Each PowerBook in Apple's current professional lineup [apple.com] can handle (according to the tech specs [apple.com]) close to your requirements.

    Operating extremes are: 50 to 95 degrees Fahrenheit (10 to 35 degrees Celsius) for temperature; 20% to 80% relative humidity, non-condensing. Maximum operating altitude is at 10,000 feet.

    Storage extremes are: 40 below to 116 degrees Fahrenheit (-40 to 47 degrees Celsius) for temperature; 15,000 feet maximum altitude.

    And, of course, Linux on PowerPC [penguinppc.org] kicks ass (as does OS X [apple.com]).

    Best of luck.

    justen
    • Ditto, except I'd go for an iBook - they're much cooler (temperature wise).

      And, yes, OS X rules. I don't see why you'd ever want to run Linux on Apple hardware to be honest.

      Dave
      • And, yes, OS X rules. I don't see why you'd ever want to run Linux on Apple hardware to be honest.

        OS X rules on reasonably modern hardware. OS X blows on the castoff Lombard I got from work.

        "Video RAM? Why the fuck would we put any of that in a laptop?"

        --saint
        • Load the Lombard up with RAM and spend the hundred bones on a 5400rpm hard drive. If you drop the color space down to 16 bits you can run apps pretty decently on a Lombard. I ran OSX for quite a while on one. It won't run Photoshop or Maya well but it can easily handle Office v.X/AppleWorks/BBEdit/Mail/Safari/iCal/Quicktime well enough.
      • I owned a ibook and the damn thing was a oven, you could fiy egges on it. One day I took the laptop and set it on a pillow and shoved a therm probe underneth it. After 20 min the probe was registing 115 'F
    • I've got a Powerbook 12" and a temperature monitoring app, and my CPU has gone upto a roasting 66C - it still works, and roasts things nicely :)
    • What happens if i get my powerbook too cold? Can I sit outside on a chilly winter day (that's not snowing) out on the Charles River (Boston), without destroying it?
      Another question... I notice the humidity on the weather channel is often 100% when it's raining. If I have my windows open, would i be unable to run my mac since the humidity would be 100%?

      Oh, and i can't really take my power book if i go into space... or even just climb mount everest?.... damn, that sucks...

    • Aparently, you can even store them at 400 degrees F [slashdot.org].
  • If you can afford a laptop, what's stopping you from buying an air conditioner? I've had desktops crap out in conditions like what you're describing - I doubt you'll be able to find a laptop that'll run reliably.
    • You may be right, but an air conditioner could be out of the question. Think about people on the road, in places where a laptop might be necessary. Inside trucks at job sites, travel hubs without A/C (airport, train station, bus station). Even commuting in some places on public transportation may not have A/C. I'm just pulling these off the top of my head and I don't have a laptop. He probably has a valid reason for needing a laptop in a place where the A/C is out of his control.

    • And where are you going to find an air conditioner that will work in the wide open? Say 500 feet up a radio tower? (Where you might need a computer to diagnose equipment up there) Or in a desert only reachable by heavily modified 4 wheel drives (Jeep).

      Plenty of locations have equpment that needs maintance, and most of that today requires a computer to get status.

  • Panasonic Toughbook line (Score:5, Informative)

    by NetRanger ( 5584 ) * on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:45PM (#6535323) Homepage
    Your specifications will easily be met by a ruggedized computer -- check out Panasonic's Toughbook [panasonic.com] line... that's where our company is going.

    The drawback: cost... you're talking about $4K for a top-of-the-line model. But you'll never have to worry about breaking it.

    • At the risk of replying to myself, here's a good link [panasonic.com] to video (alas, Quicktime) of just what the Toughbook can handle...
    • While the Toughbook is a good machine. It seems like fixing it in hardware isn't a great way to go. Really good power management is a system wide trick. If you can get all your applications, deamon's, drivers and the system to be smart about their use of power, you can get by with less. I don't belive Linux has that, but Mac OS X does. Even servers benefit from good power management, if you conserve your power, then you need less AC in the server room.
    • Specifically Panasonic claims that the Toughbook is built (and tested) to comply with US military standard MIL-STD 810F, which specifies (operating, not storage):
      • MIL-STD 810F 501.3 II: 71 C
      • MIL-STD 810F 507.3: 95% humidity

      Of course we all know that the bullet resistance [ibistek.com] is the coolest requirement.

      There are plenty of other [google.ca] laptops that meet those specifications -- but I assume they all have similar price tags. :(

  • IBM (Score:3, Informative)

    by keesh ( 202812 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:46PM (#6535343) Homepage
    An IBM sales droid will supply you with full environmental specifications for ThinkPads if you ask. Plus, ThinkPads run Linux pretty well...
    • Not only that, but IBM has decades of cooling experience from the mainframe world and some of that knowledge goes into cooling Thinkpads. Of course Thinkpads aren't water cooled...

  • Panasonic ToughBook (Score:4, Informative)

    by OneFix at Work ( 684397 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:50PM (#6535383)
    Check out this [panasonic.com] link.

    The toughbook can operate at tempratures up to 140F and 95% humidity.

    If you really need a ruggedized laptop, the toughbooks are the only way to go. I've heard stories about toughbooks falling into the Amazon and being pulled out with the screen still powered up...

    The .mil also use the toughbooks in the field. In fact, the only real difference between the .mil toughbooks and the civilian ones is the case/color.
    • True, true.

      i speak as the voice of experience here. i'm a marine (still) working in iraq (i've been out here for six months).

      since the start of this conflict, my unit had a number of Dell [dell.com] latitudes and a number of Panasonic [panasonic.com] toughbooks. Let me tell you, the weather here in the fertile crescent is, in a word, unforgiving.
      often, both the dells and the panasonics are hot to the touch.
      however, i can count on one hand the number of toughbooks that i've seen fail, while to count the number of latitudes

      • I know this is offtopic, but just wanted to encourage you and thank you for being over there protecting all of us back here in the States.
        • I know this is offtopic, but just wanted to encourage you and thank you for being over there protecting all of us back here in the States.

          The war in Iraq is about protecting all of us back here in the States?

          • At least partially, yes. Bush outlined in his speech a number of reasons why we were going into Iraq. The media focused on weapons of mass destruction. Another reason that Bush stated *before* people started criticizing him was to free the Iraqi people. The media just decided not to harp on that until it appeared no weapons of mass destruction would be found. All in all, the Iraqi people are freed of a harsh dictator, the world is a safer place for having that dictator out of control, and the U.S. has
            • At least partially, yes. Bush outlined in his speech a number of reasons why we were going into Iraq.

              What do you think when a person gives you a list of reasons for something, and one of them turns out to be a deliberate lie?

              • Maybe that they were given misinformation? It is no small secret that the forged document that said there were WMDs was given to us by the British. Also, it's not like Bush can read every single piece of intelligence. That's why we have an intelligence *agency*. It's their job to brief the President.
                • The intelligence *agency* repeatedly told Bush not to rely on the information.
                  So his having an *agency* doesn't mean a damn thing if he flat out ignores the advice he receives!
                  That's not to say we didn't do the right thing, just for the wrong reasons. We should have made the move way back when in Desert Storm when we promised we would. (At the time we welched on that promise and got a lot of people killed).
                  But yeah, kudos to our troops. It's not their fault these decisions are being made the
      • My Toughbook experiences haven't included any millitary service, but they're similarly positive. I picked up a CF-25 at a computer show a few years back, and a CF-17 on eBay. Both have been great machines. I love any computer that goes "clank".

        I've used the 17 as an umbrella more than once, and after seeing the filthy water that ran out of the keyboard tray after the first time, I've taken to rinsing it regularly with tap water. Try that with your favorite titanium fruit!

        The 25 has served as a wheel chock
  • Let's look at this problem from a different angle. First off, I am going to assume that this laptop is not always going to be exposed to this kind of heat. That being said, here's what I would do. Whenever the temperature reaches above 35 degrees, you could strap a heatsink to the laptop. Another idea would be to build some sort of mini-air cooler. This could be accomplished by filling a container with ice and water, and connecting a hose from the air intake on your laptop to this container, so that it can
    • A heatsink may not be the best way to go... laptops are actually designed to keep the case somewhat insulated (at least the good ones that don't burn your lap are).

      Probably much better would be to add an auxillary fan to the exisiting small fan. The massive increase in airflow would be more of a help than trying to decrease the ambient temperature. You could use a case fan and custom-made ducting.

      The hard drive would have to be handled differently - my inspiron 8000 keeps it stuffed into a little confined

  • Humidity? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Otter ( 3800 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:56PM (#6535436) Journal
    In particular, I am looking for a notebook with 900MHz or faster CPU (fast enough to play DVD's) which will work under full CPU utilization at 40 degrees celcius (104F) and 90% relative humidity.

    Like others, I suspect a TiBook would work well. Mine runs fine through long compiles at temperatures in the 90's (F ), and without getting into MHz squabbling, you don't need nearly 900 to play DVDs fine on a G4. And while they have a reputation for being hot, that's because the design conducts heat out the bottom so well -- they're probably relatively cool inside.

    But here's my question: is humidity relevant? It is for us humans, cooled by evaporation, but does a fan-cooled CPU care whether it's in Phoenix or Jakarta? Or is the humidity concern tied to mildew or corrosion issues?

    • He probably needs those MHz to decode the DVD without the advantage of hardware decoding.

      But, I wonder, in response to a posting above, if Mac On Linux could take advantage of the hardware decoding?

      My personal experience with an old PowerBook G3 (Pismo) is that the fan only runs on hot days (80F+) when it has been sitting on my bed (with comforter) for a while (+20 minutes) doing CPU intensive tasks. I can't recall the fan turning on while sitting on a normal surface or my lap.

      As for DVD, I can watch

    • RTFS (Score:2)

      by Vagary ( 21383 )
      It's nice of you to tell us how much you love your favourite little laptop and all, but the poster wasn't just asking what made you cream your pants: fortunately Apple publishes the TiBook's environmenal specifications [apple.com], unfortunately they're insufficient for this job:
      • 10 to 35 C
      • 20% to 80% relative humidity

      I know TiBooks are very nice and all, but they're not the panacea that many owners seem to think they are.

    • Humid air is less dense than dry air. So, you need more of it to sink the same heat. I don't require all the other 'rugged' features of the panasonic toughbooks, etc. Just something that will work in outdoor, summer and tropical climate.

  • humidity wont matter (Score:3, Informative)

    by 7-Vodka ( 195504 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:58PM (#6535454) Journal
    Humidity is only opressive to us because we cool ourselves by evaporation which happens slower when it's humid. It shouldnt affect laptops at all since they cool their cpu by radiation conduction and convection.

    • Re:humidity wont matter (Score:4, Informative)

      by SagSaw ( 219314 ) <slashdot@noSPam.mmoss.org> on Friday July 25, 2003 @07:39PM (#6536810)
      Bzzzzzzzt....wrong.

      Humidity can case several problems for laptops:

      Your standard run-of-the-mill IC's in the black plastic/cases are not well sealed against moisture. Over time, moisture seeps in and can damage the chips. This problem is accelerated by high temperatures and humidities.

      Humidity and temperature changes can cause plastic parts to change in size (think of all the plastic moving bits in a typical CD-R*/DVD/etc. drive).

      Condensataion when the device moves from a cool envronment to a warm humid environment (where the dew point of the humid environment is higher than the temperature in the cool environment).

      Humidity will have a minor effect on cooling, but can kill the laptop in other ways.

  • I'd check the iBook, specs says it can go up to 35c, so it should be enough for your need. At worst, the fan will start. :) Lots of people have been bragging about their iBook fan never starting even over 30c, so I'm pretty sure it will work at 40c.
    • Why on earth would you want a portable machine that kicks out enough heat, and has poor enough thermal dissipation, to need a fan? Not only do they suck extra power and fail frequently, they require openings in the case that can introduce dust and moisture. That's fine in a server room with a controlled environment, but you'd never take such a delicate machine on the beach, or into a machine shop, or anywhere else that real people might need to compute.

      One reason good laptops [panasonic.com] have metal cases is so they do

  • Get a Patriot 1 (Score:3, Informative)

    by Wee ( 17189 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @05:12PM (#6535575)
    You want a Patriot 1 [amrel.com] from AMREL. It meets MIL-STD 810F, which is an operating from 0C to 45C. Their extremely tough laptops. Not cheap, however, and not easy to get. But they're the best. A Panasonic Toughbook might work. They're not cheap either.

    As far as TCO goes, you might just be better off buying 10 or 12 cheap Thinkpads [ebay.com] from ebay. Get all the same (or close) model numbers. When one dies, pop out the hard drive and put it in another one. Or keep an OS image on a PC somewhere and load up the "new" laptop that way. Or image them all at the same time and keep your personal stuff on a network someplace. I'm not sure what exactly you need the portable for.

    BTW, you can get cheap Toughbooks on ebay [ebay.com] as well, as long as you don't mind running a slower processor.

    -B

  • Ti Apple Powerbook. (Score:4, Informative)

    by mkoz ( 323688 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @05:58PM (#6535906)
    I have used my 15" 667MHz Ti book in un-airconditioned E. Texas with temperatures in the mid 90's with some success.

    I can play a DVD for almost 2 hours before I must let my powerbook cool down. Granted the fan is on during this, and it makes a big difference if it is on a hard surface. Generally I get through the movie, but I have to let my powerbook cool for about a half hour before I can watch any of the special features. In general I have found that the optical drives on these computers tend to generate a bunch of heat. I only fail to burn a CD when I am burning 3+ in sequence... so now I let it cool down after 2 discs.

    At these temperatures it is very important to run on a hard surface. With normal use (php/apache/mysql to a local web browser for data entry) and processor cycling on, the fan will stay at a happy medium speed.

    I have used my powerbook in all kinds of conditions, and several of my friends take them camping from cars. You have to be careful with the Ti powerbook because they are a bit fragile, but they seem to be able to deal with camping / generators in death valley, etc.

    MAK
  • Friends and I have had good success with Toshiba laptops in high heat and humidity conditions in Asia. These laptops have run well and have held up in some pretty harsh conditions. I suspect that you'll have little trouble with a good laptop from any reputable laptop manufacturer (IBM, Toshiba, . . .).

    I think one of the biggest factors to look at is whether or not the laptop contains a mobile chip. These will not only run cooler but give you longer battery life. All the laptops I've had success with ha
  • Get something with that Centrino technology or at the very least the Pentium-M (Banias (sp?) core). Those things are made for power consumption and a minimum of heat output. They kick ass. You might pay a little more but I'm sure they'd be able to take that kind of heat, at the very lowest throttling on the chip they go down to 600-something mhz. IBM makes a good one I'm told.
  • I have a 900 mhz iBook and it never runs "hot." I really use it as a laptop sometimes and after a while the fan will come on but other than that it never comes close to burning me. Its only rated to 35 C on their website but I don't see how a hot tiBook would be any better, maybe you could call Apple. The iBooks are relatively inexpensive and very well made. My girlfriend has a Dell Inspiron and my iBook just feels so much more solidly built. The $1299 model can burn CDs and play DVDs (very well I migh
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Itronix (Score:3, Informative)

    by yancey ( 136972 ) on Saturday July 26, 2003 @01:38AM (#6538331)

    I don't have a comparison site, but I can give you one...

    Operating temperature: -20 to +60C (-4 to +140F)

    Storage temperature: -55 to +75C (-67 to +167F)

    http://www.itronix.com/products/notebooks/gobook ma x.asp

    http://www.itronix.com/upload/specifications/us/ go bookmax.pdf

  • Any insights on what generates heat on laptops? (Score:3, Informative)

    by slashdot_commentator ( 444053 ) on Saturday July 26, 2003 @04:45AM (#6538717) Journal
    I'm sure many readers are saying "duh, its the CPU". But actually, on my HP ZE4101 (Athlon XP-M 1500+), it seems to be generated in the area holding the SODIMMs (512MB+128MB). It appears while the CPU has its fan, there is only a metal contact plate to distribute heat from the RAM modules. It also seems that the DIMMs generate more heat than the CPU.

    I was concerned that my 512MB SODIMM was defective, but I did order it from Crucial. XP only seems to get flaky when the laptop becomes abnormally warm. Is it possible that somehow heat is being transferred from the CPU to that SODIMM area? Why would DIMMs get so hot when in operation? Would it be a prudent move to get rid of the 128MB SODIMM in order to reduce a heat generator? Are there software tweaks that might reduce the need to feed current to memory?

    As to the writer's question, I would think that the key is slow, low power CPU with good heat design. If you have money to spend, I'd recommend looking at a Transmeta CPU off of dynamism.com. Also, you may want to look at exotic notebooks/PDAs running off of ARM chips or other cold CPUs. Perhaps an older powerbook might do the trick. (While the G4s can't compete with heat generation from Intel/AMD CPUs, I do hear they run hot.) Finally, start googlefishing the usenet archives on laptops and heat. There are bound to be notebook users in the same climate you're in that would have an insight.
    • Anything with a voltage across it is going to generate heat. SODIMMs can get warm, yes. In the iBook they have a heat sink/protective metal shield that helps to dissipate it, but it still gets hot under there.

      The major heat sources in any computer are the hard drive, memory, CPU, graphics CPU and north/south bridges.
      • You're exactly right that the memory generates a lot of heat. This is one reason not to have more memory than you need in a laptop. Heat produced is battery consumed! Get only enough to keep from swapping too much.

        Honestly, I don't see why we have such obscenely powerful laptops anyway. I'm more than happy with my 300MHz Celeron. I'd love to see a laptop with yesterday's CPU as long as it got 20+ hours on a battery.

        I think at that point, the screen becomes the major power sucker, and we have to go back to
  • My Toshiba Satellite (3005-S304) tends to shut off the screen light lamp when it's hot and humid. Be aware of Toshiba.
  • Our company sells touch laptops for rugged conditions. The only one I would recommend is one from itronix.

    Check out http://www.itronix.com/ for details.

    Then buy from us :-)
    • But it's overkill.

      All I need is the temp/humidity spec.
      Why should I have to pay 3X the price just to
      have a notebook that will work in what is the
      'normal' environment of tropical and summer temperate zones?

      It's worth noting that not one response related a comparison site. Perhaps there isn't one.

Slashdot Top Deals

As long as we're going to reinvent the wheel again, we might as well try making it round this time. - Mike Dennison

Close