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Music Media Technology

Newest iPod vs. the Nomad Zen NX? 160

Posted by Cliff from the dollars-and-decibels dept.
flyingember asks: "I am considering purchasing an iPod, since they are so cool looking. I then came across the new Nomad Zen NX. Size isn't an issue, my current MP3 player being a MP3-CD player. The big thing is price. In the US the 30GB Zen costs $300, the 30GB iPod costs $500. Or you can get a 10GB iPod for $300 or a 20GB Zen for $250 on the low end. Has the iPod got better design and layout of controls to make the price difference worth it?"
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Newest iPod vs. the Nomad Zen NX? More

Newest iPod vs. the Nomad Zen NX?

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  • iPod (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sporty ( 27564 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @07:57PM (#6629924) Homepage
    The iPod is just more asthetically usable. I don't know how to explain it. My friend got a zen recently. It has a jog dial on the right somewhere, but the interface is just weird. It feels like the type of interface I'd expect on my receiver.

    I like devices that have interfaces that match their use. Take palm and its OS. I thought grafitii is great. It makes sense for really quick input. The fact you don't have a start menu and just use the "applications" menu to get to stuff was also great. It even use(d) a low power cpu. It's the opposite reason why I really hate windows ce. I just can' get used to the idea of having a start menu and apps that take up so much screen space.

    --

    Other reason I don't like the zen? Same friend, can't download the drivers from creative, and to use the drivers, he has to install the base software. But the software he prefers to use for syncin' needs the drivers. So to use one software, he's forced to use another.

    --

    iTunes works really well w/ the ipod. Hopefully, the win version will be just as good.

    • Re:iPod (Score:1, Troll)

      by YE ( 23647 )
      Same friend, can't download the drivers from creative, and to use the drivers, he has to install the base software. But the software he prefers to use for syncin' needs the drivers. So to use one software, he's forced to use another.

      Like, on the iPod, you can even dream about using *another* software besides iTunes? But, oh, I forgot, Apple software is perfect, no one would ever want to use an alternative.

      And I'm sure your strong, argumented, educated opinion on Windows CE is right-on-spot relevant to th

      • Re:iPod (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Silicon Avatar ( 30968 )
        While I might be feeding a troll here ...

        He does compare the user interface of the ipod to the user interface of the zen, comparing it to palmos and wince. I am right there with him/her on this comparison.

        And with the ipod, you'd be amazed to discover there are other software solutions for it. While I can't speak for the mac side of the house (and everyone I've talked to about itunes has been fairly happy with it), I know for certain on the PC side, there's EphPod [ephpod.com] and Media Jukebokx [musicex.com], both of which I've

    • Re:iPod (Score:2, Informative)

      by gooru ( 592512 )
      The iPod is just more asthetically usable. I don't know how to explain it. My friend got a zen recently. It has a jog dial on the right somewhere, but the interface is just weird.

      I unfortunately have to say the same about the iPod. The one giant wheel is very awkward to use for certain things such as playing Solitaire. However, after a couple days, I was very used to it.

      The iPod is also just plain better designed. There are practically no moving parts, and I can't imagine anything other than the har
  • so does price.

    Of course, you could indulge in simple style,
    but too the real techies, who would know
    that either you're using smaller files,
    or you paid more and got less to go.

  • iPod is sexier (Score:4, Funny)

    by PeteyG ( 203921 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @07:58PM (#6629945) Homepage Journal
    The Nomad is cool and all. And I'd be proud to own one. And it is kinda cheaper. I would recommend it to others! And even myself perhaps if I didn't already own a 3rd gen iPod.

    But iPod is smaller, lighter
    It's way more stylish (aka chicks dig it)
    It's got a slick interface with a really nice screen
    You can play solitaire on it gosh darn it!!!

    Okay, I'm just trying to defend my impulse 400 (USD) purchase.
    • It's way more stylish (aka chicks dig it)

      *shaking head* You'd have better luck spending the extra $200 you saved on hookers if that's what's important to you.

      • Re:iPod is sexier (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Did you know that a chick digging you is different from fucking a prostitute?

      • Re:iPod is sexier (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Totally untrue.

        $200 spent on a prostitute is a one shot deal, once it's spent, it's gone.

        $200 invested in something that girls, for whatever stupid reason, will sleep with you for, or be more likely to sleep with you, will pay dividends for at least 6 months. 6 months is how long it will take for that item to be deemed out of style by women's magazines, to be replaced by something more expensive.

        It is expensive, no doubt, to keep up, but if you're smart, it's way cheaper than hookers. And who knows,
        • "Don't even try to tell me that... you're male but would trade a sex life for a really economical and functional music player."

          Perhaps you have forgotten that this is slashdot...

        • you're male but would trade a sex life for a really economical and functional music player

          Not sure - I need to know what a sex life is and what I can do with it before deciding...
    • FireWire is a faster/better way to transfer files because of the sustained I/O involved (don't be fooled by the USB 2.0 FUD). The iPod is also a bootable FireWire HD, so you get dual-use out of the extra cost.

      The iPod plays AAC which may not seem like a big deal but it is the successor to MP3 so I suspect you'll be seeing more and more content that way, DRM issues aside. There is also audible.com support if you like that sort of thing. You can also do contacts and calendaring on the iPod. Sounds kind of us

      • Re:And much more than a music player (Score:5, Insightful)

        by yasth ( 203461 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @09:30PM (#6630657) Homepage Journal
        The iPod plays AAC which may not seem like a big deal but it is the successor to MP3 so I suspect you'll be seeing more and more content that way

        Ummm says who?

        Don't be a stupid fanboy. The successor to the MP3 format seems to be the MP3 format, as size is becoming a non-issue. Microsoft also has the very nice WMA format if you want DRM. The installed base of players still skews strongly toward WMA, and right now more players are being shipped supporting WMA then AAC. That doesn't mean the AAC format is doomed just that it wil probably never become quite as important as WMA. It doesn't really matter though look at a place like AllOfMp3 [allofmp3.com] they allow you to choose what format you want your music in, and the bitrate you want it at. So AAC will probably be around for a long time, but is almost certainly not the succesor to MP3
      • "I'd take points off of the Nomad simply because it has Microsoft's proprietary WMA in it. Ish, don't encourage them."

        Yeah. These things should support less digital formats.
      • USB 2.0 FUD?

        What FUD?

        I'd take points off of the Nomad simply because it has Microsoft's proprietary WMA in it. Ish, don't encourage them.

        Honestly, are you transferring large amounts of mp3s back and forth all the time -- enough to warrant the 35% speed increase (and price increase too!)?
    • I agree. The iPod is sexier. When buying personal gagets, you need to consider, "How will I look with this one?" The iPod just screams trendyness and likes to be admired. Get the ones with the custome engravings on the back, it'll make you look like a million bucks.

  • For questions like these (Score:5, Informative)

    by prostoalex ( 308614 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @07:58PM (#6629949) Homepage Journal
    Epinions are pretty good:

    Nomad Zen reviews [epinions.com]

    iPod reviews [epinions.com]

    Of course, Epinions are not too helpful when the product is brand new. I usually go through a couple of five-star reviews and several one-stars (if such exist) to see what people are generally complaining about.

    • The problem with epinions is that the user base is not the same as Slashdot. As a result, the reviews there are less likely to reflect the concerns I would share with other Slashdot geeks.

      Also, few of those reviews reflect the give and take of a comparison - claim/ counter claim - that is so abundant on slashdot.

  • Short answer (Score:2, Insightful)

    by poity ( 465672 )
    No.

    Doesn't the Nomad have features that the iPod doesn't have?

    Like FM tuner and recording?

    [and there's also the anti-yuppie factor :) ]
    • Yeah, if you buy the remote, which is an extra $60 if you are lucky enough to find it (there were problems back a few months where no one was receiving theirs). And from what I hear, the recording quality is not so great.

      • I got my remote a few days ago. I ordered it straight from Creative's site and it only took about a week to get it. I'm not sure about the Zen, but with the Jukebox3, it can be used to record FM or mono to 64Kbps MP3s. I mainly use it record from the line-in/optical port.

  • Yes!!! (Score:2, Informative)

    by ae0nflx ( 679000 )
    I have a 2nd generation ipod and now a new 3rd generation ipod, both 10 gigs, (i got the second one as part of an apple store rebate and only paid 70bucks for it). The layout and design is really really worth it. Even if you just get the 10 gig, it's worth it.

    The cool factor really throws it in my opinion, unless you are on a super tight budget, but seeing as you are even considering buying one, you probably aren't. It's a great piece of equipment and my only complaint is the battery life blows. If that

    • battery life? (Score:4, Informative)

      by fr0dicus ( 641320 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @04:18AM (#6632951) Journal
      My 2nd gen iPod does the advertised 10 hours. For the size, this is by far the best battery life I've ever had on a portable player. Way better than my old solid state mp3 players (2-3 hours), and only eclipsed by my sony CD walkman, which had plenty of room for larger batteries (ie. barely portable, certainly not pocketable). I can't really argue against either of these players, unless you have a mac, in which case the iPod is a no brainer.

    • Re:Yes!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by paradesign ( 561561 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @09:07AM (#6633962) Homepage
      Only 10 gigs!?!

      im still using my 5gig 1st gen that ive had since a month after release and it is amazing still. The only time the size is an issue is when i use it in firewire disk mode. i even think that its better smaller. it makes me choose my playlists for it more carefully. its noit like i need the entirity of my library on it at any given time. in fact i usually leave about a gig open, JIC theres a file i need to throw on it.

      what i really want is an uber-cheap uber-small 3-5gig model, id be in hog heaven.

      and to be on topic, the interface is the best part of the ipod, it is the essence of good design. the second you put the ipod in your hand you know how to use it.

      • Only 10 gigs!?! im still using my 5gig 1st gen that ive had since a month after release and it is amazing still. The only time the size is an issue is when i use it in firewire disk mode. i even think that its better smaller. it makes me choose my playlists for it more carefully. its noit like i need the entirity of my library on it at any given time. in fact i usually leave about a gig open, JIC theres a file i need to throw on it. what i really want is an uber-cheap uber-small 3-5gig model, id be in

    • Re:Yes!!! (Score:2, Interesting)

      by tackaberry ( 694121 )
      I opted for the new 15gig iPod. Price wasn't an issue, but size was. Even though there isn't that much of a difference (30 gig is 10% heavier and nearly 1/8 inch thicker), I still wanted the thinner/lighter version.

      By comparison, the Zen weighs 9.5oz to the 5.6oz/6.2oz iPods.

      Capacity wasn't too much of a concern either. I've had a hard enough time finding 15 gigs of music to listen to, let alone 30 or 60 gigs.

      I cannot really compare the iPod to the Zen, because the iPod was the only one I considered.

      • I bought a 10Gb second-gen back in February and it is possibly the finest purchase I have made all year. I find I get sort of close to the 10 hour mark with the battery, somewhere between nine to ten hours but i haven't timed it out exactly. I use it at work on a daily basis. I don't even bother with playlists, I just set it to random, hit play and let it go all day long. My only regret is that I did not buy a better case sooner; there's a faint scratch on the screen. I briefly toyed with getting a Nom

  • Archos (Score:3, Interesting)

    by szyzyg ( 7313 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @08:13PM (#6630066)
    Just picked up a Jukebox Multimedia for $300 - 20 gigs + support for recording and low end DivX movies. Spent a lot of time interviewing people with it at Defcon, not great quality but a versatile little box.

  • function and form (Score:4, Informative)

    by BenTheDewpendent ( 180527 ) <ben.junknstuff@net> on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @08:16PM (#6630089) Homepage
    The ipod isn't just an MP3 player. It also can store your contacts, and appointments, as well as functioning as a portable harddrive as well (the zen can most likely do this too.) So it does a little more in a better package with a better interface. I'd say ipod.
    • ...functioning as a portable harddrive as well (the zen can most likely do this too.)

      I'm not sure if things have changed with the NX, but the original Zen can not be mounted by the operating system as a removable HD, at least not with Creative's drivers. You have to go through a special Nomad Explorer app to transfer files. iPod, OTOH, mounts directly.

  • Qaulity vs. Price (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sunbane ( 146740 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @08:19PM (#6630109) Homepage
    I have a 20GB 2nd series ipod (now my wifes) and a 30GB 3rd series. The big difference I found was the quality. Borrow somebodies ipod and just listen to the sound - it is fantastic. The headphones alone would be $75 as they contain neobydium magnets and are great quality - ever notice when you see somebody with an ipod they are using the included headphones?

    The next thing is simplicity - the menu system on the ipod I find much more navigable and easier to use... granted I have only played w/ a zen in the store but the ipod just makes sense.

    You also say you are not too worried about size, but just going from the series 2 to the series 3 is awesome (and the series 2 was smaller). You can slip it into your shirt pocket and never know it is there. It really does make a difference... granted, either is night and day for you right now, but down the road do you really want to suddenly be envious of a friends tight little package? (he he...)

    I can honestly say these have been some of the best purchases I have ever made, have used them w/ both windows and on my wife's ibook. They work fabulous. And don't forget that iTunes and the Apple Music Store are coming to windows... you'll need something to play those nice songs on and slickly hook into what I think is the best mp3 player out there! (Yup, I'm jealous of my wife... come on economy - get rolling so I can get me a G5!!!)

    You could always just buy you a volkwagen bug and get an ipod for free!!! :)
    • Are the headphones *really* that amazing? I have a pair with my iPod, but I haven't even broken them out of the packaging yet, primarily because I don't want those blindingly bright white things advertising that I'm using the iPod to everyone around me (on the subway). I'm using a pair of Sony buds now, and though I'm not totally happy with them, I always though it was the iPod at fault, not the Sony buds (which I was very happy with using with minidisc).

      I'm considering selling the iPod buds and buying a
      • No, they are DEFINITELY not that good. I think they suck IMHO. First off, the sound is distorted on both the low & high ends. Secondly, ear buds stink. Thirdly, I bought a pair of Seinnheisers and that made all the difference. They sound 100 times better than the iPod's headphones and they're more comfortable for only about $40.
        I recommend using anything but the iPod headphones myself.
      • I've *never* seen anyone using an iPod with the bundled headphones. I also don't know anyone that likes those shitty earbuds anyways, they all use regular headphones, albeit smaller ones. I think the sound quality of headphones os about 50 times better than any earbud out there, because I find sound is distorted in my ear with any buds.
      • I love the quality of the sound the buds put out on my (2nd generation, 10GB) iPod. Unfortunately, most earbuds have a nasty habit of falling out of my ear at inopportune moments (basically, anytime I move), so I never use them.

        The only earbuds that I've used that stick OK are a set of Koss ones I have (I forget the model) that use compressible foam to mold into the ear. They stick OK. Usually, I use a set of conventional walkman-style Sony headphones that fold up. Sound from both of those is worse tha
      • Are the headphones *really* that amazing?
        For buds, they're the best in the $100 price range. The bass really sucks and the treble *can* be tinny. I use Stanton Dynaphase 60's (old studio headphones you can get on ebay for $20). Using my studio headphones, the sound out of the iPod really is *amazing*. It's made me go back and re-record my entire CD collection using the --extreme preset in lame.

        I *really can* tell the difference in sound quality using these headphones and the ipod. Using a Nomad, I can't t
      • If you want some truly comfortable ear buds that sound very good and don't cost too much, check out the Sony Fontopias [amazon.com]. They're a little weak on the bass, as you'd expect from such tiny drivers, but they're unblievably comfy, and they don't feel like they're going to fall out of your ears all the time. They also do a damned fine job of shutting out ambient noise.

    • Now if they could make it record to mp3 or wav files like the Nomade Jukebox3, I'd certainly be willing to buy an iPod. It would make recording shows to put on furthurnet [furthurnet.org] less cumbersome.

    • It's the earbuds that bother me... I must be one of the few people who's ears can't take the earbuds... the shape of my ears doesn't give the bud anywhere to hold in place and they always fall out.
      • You may want to try using the "in ear canal" type earbuds, as opposed to the "outer ear" type of earbuds. They have foam or silicon molds which you squeeze into your ear, which help prevent them from falling out.

        You can see a list of a few of the higher end ones here [headphone.com]

  • The path is clear (Score:3, Informative)

    by zaad ( 255863 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @08:27PM (#6630172)
    Size isn't an issue, my current MP3 player being a MP3-CD player. The big thing is price. In the US the 30GB Zen costs $300, the 30GB iPod costs $500.

    So the difference is $200 give or take. The Zen NX isn't quite as small as the new iPod, but it's much smaller than the original Zen.

    One of the coolest things about the Nomad's is Notmad Explorer [redchairsoftware.com], or more specifically, the Notweb Explorer. It's a cool web interface to your mp3 player. You can browse it, search it, download or stream your mp3's. Very cool.

    The battery life is significantly longer on the Zen NX (and the battery is user removable). Also very cool.

  • Support? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by W33dz ( 643133 ) * on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @08:43PM (#6630310)
    Creative is horrible at support. Have you ever tried to DL a driver pack from them? Usually you get 4 or 5 TSR proggies that will crash your system. I lived in Singapore and actually had to go to their HQ three times to get my Geforce II replaced. Bad news.
    Apple? I own an IPOD, and notwithstanding that you have to install MusicMatch, their package is quite good. I had very few software problems and absolutely no hardware issues. The IPOD is top notch stuff and it makes the subway commute into work everyday much more enjoyable.
    • Actually, you don't have to use MusicMatch (which sucks as an iPod interface, IMHO). I've been using the free ephpod [ephpod.com] package with my new 30 gig iPod, and I'm very happy with it. MUCH easier to use than MusicMatch, with lots of great features.

      • > Actually, you don't have to use MusicMatch (which sucks as an iPod interface, IMHO). I've been using the free ephpod package with my new 30 gig iPod, and I'm very happy with it. MUCH easier to use than MusicMatch, with lots of great features.

        I'll put in another vote for ephpod - it's is great. I actually bought a 5gb mac iPod, all the was available locally, and so never had any 'retail' windows software, but the alternatives have been excellent. Having used creative devices before I've found the a

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @08:59PM (#6630444)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Take a look at the Neuros [neurosaudio.com]. It's a bit bigger than the ipod, but it's backpack based. I have a 128M flash backpack I can use while exercising, while using the 20G backpack while in the car. It plays Vorbis and MP3 files quite nicely and will also broadcast over FM to a variety of channels (YMMV outside the US).

      Linux friendly (there are 3 apps to sync over Linux) as well. Much of the Linux and Vorbis work are being done by Xiph.
    • Please, Apple, build in Vorbis support for your iPod. I have 30Gb of my own (i.e. not downloaded) Vorbis files, and am putting off buying a portable player in the hope that you'll come through.

      Think of it: no licence fees, and *one* extra sale guaranteed!
    • ogg support [illadvised.com] is now available for quicktime and itunes. So I'd assume that someone will do the natural thing and get it into the ipod soon.

  • iPod, for sure. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by falcon203e ( 589344 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @09:19PM (#6630578)
    I wouldn't give up my 10 GB iPod for anyone else's machine, regardless of its capacity. The iPod is unbeatable when it comes to ease of use, putting CD players to shame. It's also got one feature that I've never seen on any other player, on-the-go playlists. If you don't know what I mean look on Apple's iPod site. Add to that the fact that you can charge it straight from the FireWire port, can grab a phone number or email address without having to pause the music and whip out the Palm, and will soon be able to record from it as well (you can do it already through a special developers mode, and Apple will supposedly release a firmware update in the near future integrating this function into the real interface), and I think the Zen has been soundly smacked. The iPod more than makes up for the price difference in its quality. It's also a rock. I don't know about the Zen, but I've never carried my 3rd gen iPod in a case for fear that it might get jumbled, scratched or crushed. The no-moving-parts philosophy probably has something to do with this. And if you're worried about vorbis support, just switch to AAC. The difference is amazing. And if you're really REALLY worried about vorbis support, the iPod will most likely support it once QuickTime does, which can't be too long. Oh yeah, and it won't drag your pants down if you put it in your pocket. Nice touch. I'm all about maintaining my pants-edness.
    • I've been eyeing iPods for awhile now and have been avoiding the purchase simply because of a lack of recording capabilities. Can you direct me to the rumor site (or Apple announcement if its official) regarding being able to record?

      Thanks,

      Lynn
    • I don't know about the Zen, but I've never carried my 3rd gen iPod in a case for fear that it might get jumbled, scratched or crushed.
      That's funny, because I carry my mp3 player in a case because I fear it getting jumbled, scratched, or crushed.
      The no-moving-parts philosophy probably has something to do with this.
      Say what? Both of these players have hard drives in them.

  • Hold out for the Rio Karma / Pearl (Score:5, Informative)

    by beerboy ( 245811 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @09:25PM (#6630625)
    20 and 40 gig versions, supports Ogg Vorbis and shipping in October (allegedly)

    Details:
    http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/007993 .php

    http://gear.ign.com/articles/382/382161p1.html?f ro mint=1&submit.x=39&submit.y=24

    http://msg.mp3.com/hardware/liststory/?position= 10 &month=200301&topic_id=8707

    http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/008007.php

    http://empeg.comms.net/files/133662-ipodcompare. jp g

  • Rio Karma (Score:2, Informative)

    by vincent99 ( 146865 )
    You probably wouldn't have heard of this yet unless you have an Empeg, but wait for the upcoming Rio Karma before deciding.
  • I would really say if all you want is music, ipod for mac(acc=itunes music store), zen for win(wma support=windows based music stores) and either for linux.

    I own a jukebox 3 (20gb) and it has great sound quality (creative does have a BIT more experiance in sound than apple) and has dual line out ports (attatch to 4+speaker systems) in addition to the headphone jack. The feature that an iPod doesnt even come close to is line/mic/optical(and FM with additional hardware) recording to many different formats

    • No, there is not a line-out or optical-out or anything out except a line to the headphones on a Zen, which is a major point against it (but mostly just when comparing it to the a jukebox 3) when, say, you want to hook it up to a fm-transmitter or your car.

  • If you rule out the size factor... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Incongruity ( 70416 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @09:59PM (#6630851)
    You cut out one of the biggest wins of the iPod and you also cut out one of the biggest reasons for the price difference. In electronics, if you want it smaller, you pay more. So, what should you do? I can't answer that for you because you've already shown that you don't think like me (I'm not saying that's bad or good, just different)...you've ignored the thing that I think makes the iPod worth the extra money... but, that's just my opinion...so I suppose, if it doesn't matter to you (size that is) go for the Zen...if you like how it sounds, as that's the second big win of the iPod and most important thing (to me) is cost...and that's where the Zen wins...so go for it.

  • iPod supports Audible. I don't think Nomad does. (Score:4, Informative)

    by bons ( 119581 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @10:41PM (#6631152) Homepage Journal
    Audible [audible.com] handles my audiobook addiction. I wouldn't be able to stand a player that didn't handle that format.

  • iTunes Music Store (Score:5, Interesting)

    by plsuh ( 129598 ) <plsuh&goodeast,com> on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @10:52PM (#6631270) Homepage
    One point in favor of the iPod is the iTunes Music Store. Intuitive interface, non-intrusive DRM, great selection and getting better all the time. And it will soon be available for Windows. Do you really want to use BuyMusic.com instead?

    --Paul

  • Replaceable battery, etc. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by FrenZon ( 65408 ) * on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @11:37PM (#6631665) Homepage
    A few other things I've found (I'm in the same situation) that the ZenNX has over the iPod:
    • Removable/replaceable battery (although whether Creative will actually sell them further down the line is another issue).
    • Low signal/noise ratio - Apple don't have (in my limited searching) specs for SNR for the iPod listed anywhere, so I can't compare, but from what I hear, the ZenNX has it there.
    • 4-band equaliser - the iPod just has presets.
    • On-the-fly cross-song volume normalisation - probably be handy for when your entire collection was been ripped before you knew anything about volume control. *ahem*
    Err, that's it. I would recommend that you check the accuracy of my statements; some of my comparisons may be to the older iPod.
    • You can get an external battery pack for the current generation iPods. That should provide some insurance against running low on juice/battery degradation. I have an earlier generation machine, so I don't know how good the pack is, but it is available.
      • What the hell is the point of an external battery pack for your oh-so-small, oh-so-light, oh-so-cool iPods? People get an iPod because they want to look cool, as well as get the smallest, lightest player around. What's the point of an iPod if you're just going to make it bigger and heavier? Seems to me I'd save paying the Apple luxury tax, and pick up something that isn't supposed to make you cooler just by buying it.
    • Removable/replaceable battery (although whether Creative will actually sell them further down the line is another issue).

      Like this? [applelaptopbattery.com]
    • I never have heard any software program which can "normalize" the volume without losing intentional dynamics in a song. With most modern music this isn't an issue as the there aren't really dynamics, its all just loud.

      It really makes a difference with classical music and jazz however. Normalizing is in most cases, a bad thing.
    • Low signal/noise ratio - Apple don't have (in my limited searching) specs for SNR for the iPod listed anywhere, so I can't compare, but from what I hear, the ZenNX has it there.
      Uh, a low signal-to-noise ratio is considered an advantage these days?

  • In defense of the Zen (Score:3, Informative)

    by Mr D. Logan ( 521004 ) <hefixesthecable@@@gmail...com> on Thursday August 07, 2003 @12:06AM (#6631863)
    Since most comments here have been about the iPod and its features and nothing has really been said about the Zen, I'll take a shot.

    First off, I love my Zen, but then I would probably love whatever mp3 hard drive player I had (sweet, sweet 60 gig of musicy goodness). The biggest point for the Zen versus an iPod (at least in my clumsy opinion/experience) is that the Zen uses a standard notebook hard drive, which means that if you buy the 20 gig version now (or perhaps you, uh, drop and kill your Zen) and later want to go to a 60 gig, you can replace it fairly easily.

    Second -- the Zen sounds great, but I can't compare it to an iPod since I have never heard one.

    There are drawbacks to the Zen, however -- you need drivers for it (and, for a while, when transferring by firewire the music would be randomly corrupted with parts of the song being mixed up and transposed everywhere) which means no just plugging in and using it as a external hard drive; the Playcenter software that comes with it is just utter shit which makes it necessary to buy Notmad Explorer [redchairsoftware.com] (and then something like Mp3/Tag Studio [magnusbrading.com] to tag all your files so they show up right on the Zen) and while that is a nice little piece of software, it is an extra $30 you have to spend that should have been fixed by making it a USB storage device like the Archos; the lack of any input/output jacks other than headphone-out kind of sucks meaning that I have to use the headphone-out with the fm-transmitter and line-in on the car and no recording without shelling out another $60 for the fm/mic remote; the battery is non-replaceable without sending it back to Creative and is supposedly only good for 300-500 charges (although the NX's battery is replaceable).

    While it may sound like I am coming down hard on the Zen, I do still dearly love mine -- having it full of 60 gigs of music means having my entire music collection in my pocket and being able to listen to anything on a whim or showing up at a party and having pretty much anything anyone else wants to hear.

    And as for size? Eh, I wear pants with big pockets. I've already got the camera, flash cards, and phone in there, what more is another big toy?
    • the lack of any input/output jacks other than headphone-out kind of sucks meaning that I have to use the headphone-out with the fm-transmitter and line-in on the car and no recording without shelling out another $60 for the fm/mic remote;

      nomad jukebox 3 has:

      - Analog/Optical Line-In for direct recording from external audio devices

      - Headphone-out + 2 line outs.

      and I'm using it with linux with latest libnjb and gnomad2:

      libnjb [sourceforge.net]

      njb3 is also cheaper than zen.

      hopey
  • It may just be me, but after using an Ipod in the store, I found the Nomad's interface much better. I like the fact that on the Nomad you can browse around and add files to the active queue quite easily and make playlists(multiple playlists and name them) on the fly. The only thing the 3rd gen Ipod has is 1 On The Go Playlist and I thought it was more of a pain to create and manage. I don't like using premade playlists. I listen to random songs and like the option of adding, deleting and skipping around m

  • The software (Score:4, Informative)

    by larien ( 5608 ) on Thursday August 07, 2003 @04:23AM (#6632971) Homepage Journal
    Dunno about the Zen, but I got an iPod a couple of weeks ago.

    I don't know if it's my setup (about 12GB of MP3s on a Samba share), but the software was diabolically bad at cataloging my collection & copying it to the iPod. Musicmatch locked up completely several times, leaving it "Not Responding" according to Task Manager under XP. It took about 2-3 hours to do the cataloging of the collection (I'm not sure as I had to keep restarting it and actually ended up leaving it running through the day while I was at work). Also, it seemed to be incredably slow at copying tracks to the iPod (about 15 minutes for 4 songs!).

    In the end, I downloaded EphPod [www.ephpod] and used that to copy files to the iPod. Worked a heck of a lot better, getting a full list of MP3s in about 10-20 seconds (about the same as Winamp). Copying wasn't as fast as I'd hoped (about 1.5MB/sec; I'd have hoped for nearer 8, the limit of the 100Mbit/sec ethernet) but still OK.

    However, the iPod itself is great; the lack of moving parts is a comfort as it prevents dust entering the system anywhere. The sound is excellent and the controls are good. The hold button is a fantastic idea, preventing the unit starting up when you don't want it and the headset controls are pretty good.

    • Lack of moving parts? Ignoring the fact that it's got a hard drive as its main storage component, there are buttons and what appears to be a knob. What moving parts does the Zen have? Oh, I must have forgotten about the elaborate pulley system you use to select what song to play.
      • The buttons and knob you refer to are all touch sensitive pads (just like a trackpad).
      • The buttons and the knob are touch sensitive like a laptop trackpad as the other reply states.

        The only moving part on the outside of the iPod case is the hold switch, which needs to be mechanical by its design. A touch sensitive hold switch wouldn't be very effective would it?

        The only mechanical part inside is the hard drive, which is cradled in a big shock-damping assembly.
    • I'm not sure what happened with you, but with my 3G iPod(10gb) things couldn't have gone smoother. The software installed without a hitch. I've had zero problems with MusicMatch. It rips MP3's from my CD's well, and has no problems speed-wise copying them to my iPod, about 3 or 4 seconds per song, which I think is amazingly fast. Maybe you just had something wrong with your install? All in all, I'd take an iPod anyday. It's just a super high-quality product that I'm continually blown away with.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I can't believe this product (or any other ones by Archos) aren't being discussed. With the Archos AV models, you can record and play back movies (the AV320 has a 3.8" color screen), listen to the radio, capture and view photos. It can support Compact flash, smartmedia, and memory stick. And, oh yeah, listen and record mp3's. They have 20GB and 40GB models.

    Archos can do much more than the iPod and costs much less. Go check it out people! (archos.com)
    • I had a Jukebox MM 20GB and was very impressed with it until the battery cover kept popping off, the screen started flashing intermittently and the unit melted on itself (really). I tried to get some help from customer support, but they said I would have to send it to them for repairs that start at $60 not including parts and labor. This was obviously a result of poor QA or a poorly designed product. Considering all of the problems it had I figured that I could probably get another MP3 player, but not an
  • I love my ipod, but I feel like people hype it a little too much. I've found a few shortcomings (at least with my 2nd series 20gb).

    Battery life. It's not bad but not exactly great. The advertised battery life is 10 hours, but I've only found it to be 3 or 4. Still not bad, but this gets to be a pain when travelling. Also using the EQ presets, the backlight, and playing large mp3 files causes the battery life to be shorter.

    Pauses between songs. This is very obvious when I'm listening to a DJ mix sp

    • Wouldn't putting "Various Artists" in the Artist: field of your ID3 tag and "Artist / Song Title" in the Title: field fix that? Then you could search by artist for Various Artists, then through the album/compilation titles.

      I hope that will work ok, as I'm about to buy an iPod and I've already got my .mp3 collection organized that way.
      • Good idea. You are a great human being for putting the appropriate meta-data in your ID3 tags. I, on the other hand, don't have that discipline :)

        On that topic, do you know of any tools for editing ID3 tags, especially across groups of files, etc.?

        • Actually yes, ID3X [apple.com]. I just installed it yesterday, in fact. It won't do you much good unless you're running OS X though :)
  • I finally decided. two factors. One, you can't find the NX in stores yet. Two, the ipod is so much cooler. So I got the ipod. I'm setting it up on my XP machine right now.
  • The big, obvious difference between the Nomad Zen NX and the iPod comes down to two subjects: listening time and aesthetics. The Zen NX Has longer battery life (14 hours on a full charge, compared to the iPod's 8 hours) and more room for your money (30gb for $300, compared to the iPod's $500 price tag for comparable room). Coupled with Zen NX's removable battery (though there aren't extra ones on sale as of yet), this amounts to much more listening time between recharges than the iPod. With the iPod, though
  • All my CD and mp3 players in the past have let me change tracks and adjust volume, even turn them off, just by touch through my jacket pocket. Will the ipod do these things as well if I get used to the feel of how much to slide along the non-moving dial? Or will I have to look at the display to see what I'm doing?

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