Plasma TVs vs. LCD Projectors for Your Home Entertainment? 91
Kent Brewster asks: "We're working on making the presence of a TV set in our living room as unobtrusive as possible. The two main flat-or-invisible screen choices seem to be plasma and LCD projection. Gateway has a $3000 42-inch plasma screen, but I see ominous comments on Usenet about how that one's not really an HDTV and therefore to be avoided. Projector Xpress has a page of Sony projectors that are at or around that $3000 mark, and the street price for a home system that's HDTV-compatible seems to be working its way down to $1000. I would love to hear from anyone who's actually owned one of the Gateway models and might be willing to discuss pros and cons; same goes for anyone who's watching TV on a video projector. How's your bulb life, and what do they cost? Is the thing hot and noisy? Was it hard to set up? Have you integrated it with your home theater? Are you using a screen, or just shooting it onto the wall? If I do this, am I going to feel like an idiot a couple of years from now when LED bulbs replace everything?"
Fog screen? (Score:2, Interesting)
Google found this... (Score:3, Informative)
in which I'm very happy with my InFocus X1
Re:Google found this... (Score:2)
Re:Google found this... (Score:2, Informative)
I have only one complaint it is a little dark in video mode. So you have to keep the room very dark. It has Great color, all in all for the $$$ it is worth it.
If you want to spend 4 times as much the new 3m projectetor here [insight.com]
is 3500 lumens which is brighter than the $10K big boys
Re:Google found this... (Score:2)
> If you want to spend 4 times as much [...]
That's the thing, cost/benefit curves are rarely linear. The incremental benefit of spending another $2000 will buy you a lot less than those first $1000 did. It's called compromise. Especially since this tech changes at a fairly fast clip, you have to ask yourself if you want to spend $1000 or $3000 every three years or so.
Re:Google found this... (Score:2, Informative)
Last year there were only 2 different types of projector technologies, this year there are 3 for instance.
But as always you should go down and view any TV or Projector before you buy.
42" not HDTV (Score:1)
Re:42" not HDTV (Score:5, Informative)
the 42 inch is HD compatable, meaning it will accept a component input that's HD and downconvert it to the TV's native format, EDTV. EDTV = 480p, or standard resolution but progressive scan. HDTV = 780p or 1060i. having viewed HDTV signal (from dish network) on said plasma screen, i can say that it looks awesome, and might be a good set now while the cable companies & TV stations sort out the transition to being fully HD. for reference, all (most?) DVDs are EDTV, such that any dvd with a progressive scan player hooked to the gateway or a $6k sony/philips/whatever will look nearly identical. can't speak to much on the projector issue, but i've heard bulbs can be rather costly, and ambient light is always a consideration. the gateway 42" plasmas are in their 3rd if not 4th generation, and previous complaints about contrast ratio and how 'black' the darkest colors are have been addressed, such that owners of older models might be complaining about issues not present in the one you'd buy today.
hope this helps.
other features in the gateway TV: standard analog tuner, inboard speakers (pointing out the sides of the tv, but not bad sounding at all), wall mount bracket was $179 when i left, they may have changed the price, extended warranty options, including accidental damage protection (trust me, you dont' want to have to pay to get it fixed), a host of monster cables available, professional installation available, standard floor stands if you don't feel like haning it on a wall. etc.
*I Am A Former Gateway Employee
Re:42" not HDTV (Score:2)
Re:42" not HDTV (Score:1)
Not LED Bulbs... (Score:4, Interesting)
The in-development technology will use lasers fired at scanning, switching MEMS mirrors to produce an image. It's kind of a cross between DLP, laser scanners, and nanotech.
The best part about it? No lens. No bulbs to replace (Though your lasers might burn up), and your throw distance can be basically any length without the distortion you'd get out of traditional optics trying to do the same thing. Want a 100 inch picture three feet away from the projector? No problemo.
Re:Not LED Bulbs... (Score:2)
Not LED Bulbs... A Beowulf Cluster of LED Bulbs! (Score:2)
It had to be said.
Re:Not LED Bulbs... (Score:2)
=D Yay!
Re:Not LED Bulbs... (Score:2)
projector all the way (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, I have hooked it up to my home theater and watched crystal clear DVD's on the size of my wall, played my PS2 on it, and used it as my computer screen on occasion when playing some games. It works perfectly in all of those scenarios.
I have even pointed it outside and the picture was stunning up against the neighbor's house...it was at least 40 ft wide and 25 feet tall!
Also, it is a very small device. Much smaller than InFocus' stuff. Very easy to hide, or remove and put away until you need it.
Best part is they are available on ebay for less than or close to $1000.
Re:projector all the way (Score:2, Interesting)
Do you live at the bottom of a lightless system of caves, or what? Even under 60w incandescents, 800 lumens can hardly be seen.
Re:projector all the way (Score:2)
Re:projector all the way (Score:2)
I pointed that fact out to let you know that the projector works well, looks great, and is easily seen in the daytime even with only 800 lumens.
Re:projector all the way (Score:2, Informative)
800 Lumens has almost no contrast in 60w light. If you indeed are happy with the 800 lumens unit, even in daytime (which still is quite dark at the bottom of a system of lightless caves), I would challenge your ability to see, think, or put rational ideas together.
No personal offense, but I just think you are so full of shit that I smell it over the cable modem.
Re:projector all the way (Score:2, Informative)
800 is what you might see from the projector at the bulb. As you move away it will be much less.
And if contrast is what you are concerned with, go with the darkest room, and the smallest screen for the best ratio.
It's called "curtains" (Score:2)
My projector is only rated 600 lumens and I love it.
Recommendations (Score:5, Informative)
Check plasmatvbuyingguide.com (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Check plasmatvbuyingguide.com (Score:3, Informative)
2: The lower resolution is often called "EDTV", for "enhanced definition". The EDTV/HDTV resolution price difference is around $3k vs $6k.
3: It is not just a "very few extra pixels" as you call it. The resolution difference is more like 1366x768 vs 852x480. That's about 1.7x in each dimension, and 3x total pixel count by area. On a computer, I'm sure you'd agree that's a phenomenal difference.
XGA DLP (Score:4, Informative)
Re:XGA DLP (Score:2)
Thanks.
Re:XGA DLP (Score:2, Informative)
Re:XGA DLP (Score:2)
4 years ago (Score:5, Informative)
I went for an LCD projector, installed upside down (in ceiling mode) and projecting onto a 100" diagonal pull-down screen. DVD playback via PC VGA out; TV/Video S-Video in). 5x100W RMS + 150W RMS sub sound system with excellent speakers.
I've watched around 400 DVDs by now. Haven't changed the lamp yet. The power supply broke down once (300$ repair) and the projector has developed a nasty 'shadow'. Fixing it is quoted 2000$ so this is out of the question. (I could fix it myself; probably a leaky capacitor in the A/D conversion but the schematics are not available)
What I don't like:
- steep projector repair prices (avoid InFocus ?).
- screen is not quite flat causing waving lines.
- darkening the room is mandatory (problematic in summer)
- projector and PC are noisy (tho my sound system can easily overwhelm them)
- watching non-HD TV. The quality sucks.
- not suitable for 'background' TV viewing.
All in all I've had a very good time (at about $10/hour in viewing costs), and while prices have come down significantly I don't regret my 'investment'.
A TV and a home theatre are very different things. So when HDTV becomes available I think I'd go for plasma.
rear-projection dlp (Score:4, Informative)
- no concerns about burn-in. unlike plasma, lcd, and crt (direct view and rear projection) the screen cannot have an image burned into it. watch blackboxed 4x3 television, play video games, and watch channels with static logos without having to deliberately balance your viewing.
- lightweight. samsung's flagship 61" rpdlp set weighs only 100 lbs. a 40" wega direct view crt weighs 300 lbs (and most of the weight is in the front of the unit).
- little calibration required for optimal viewing. most alternative sets need numerous factory menu tweaks in order to get acceptable color levels.
- inexpensive. compare the prices
- dvi-hdcp interface for future-proofed hdtv compatibility. also a perfect pixel reproduction as a monitor.
the only maintenance needed is a $250 lamp every 2-3 years. i know a lot of these comparisons have been in contrast to front projection, but they should all be weighed.
look at samsung's rpdlp site [samsungusa.com] (they're the only major people pushing the sets so far), hit the avs forum [avsforum.com] for much better advice than you'll get here, and then check them out at your local store. most major department stores (best buy, circuit city, etc) have them on display unlike front projection units.
Re:rear-projection dlp (Score:2)
If yes, how do you like it? Do you notice the conversion from 1080i, or any other resolution?
I love the looks and specs of this TV... I with I could get it in something like 1600x1200 though!
Re:rear-projection dlp (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:rear-projection dlp (Score:4, Funny)
Re:rear-projection dlp (Score:2, Interesting)
Isn't anybody buffering? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't anybody buffering? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't anybody buffering? (Score:2)
Hmmm... 'component decoder', 'progressive scan HDTV' - these are buzzwords that can loosen a videophile's wallet.
Re:rear-projection dlp (Score:1)
Re:rear-projection dlp (Score:1)
-macado
Re:rear-projection dlp (Score:1)
Re:rear-projection dlp (Score:2)
I wonder if they'll ever make one minus the speakers and tuner hardware - just a monitor - to bring the price down a little.
DG
Plasma and high elevations = bad (Score:3, Interesting)
replace bulbs or recharge plasma? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:replace bulbs or recharge plasma? (Score:3, Insightful)
We currently have about 10 Panasonic plasma displays at work. Not on 24/7, but on for a good 10 hours a day. The biggest problem: burn-in. Most of them display flash animations through Internet Explorer, and by and large they look great. However, within only
Re:replace bulbs or recharge plasma? (Score:3, Informative)
Consider the noise (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't even THINK about buying a projector unless.. (Score:1, Informative)
Then again, I don't think there's a plasma monitor that even does 1600x1200 yet. Until I have HD display options, I will stick to my 12 year old 19" JVC CRT. And, whatever I buy musn't become obsolete for at LEAST another decade.
That's a bit exaggerated... (Score:2)
I'd suggest anyone who's looking for one to go down to CompUSA and test out a few models before deciding. Make sure to test it in a well lit area and take things like distance from the screen into account. I also think that they get dimmer with higher resolution. I use mine at 800x600,
Re:That's a bit exaggerated... (Score:1)
The projector is somewhat noisy, but like the projector at the movie theater, your ears get used to the noise and tune it out. My computer which plays the DVDs i
Re:Don't even THINK about buying a projector unles (Score:2)
Hmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
"OK" projector, maybe 720p-capable, 1200 lumens - $5-6k, maybe less.
Curtains: $100 or less.
So I can either spent $15000 overcoming lights in the room, or I can spend $100 and install some fucking curtains.
Real tough decision there.
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)
2200 Lumens
1360x768
$4,200
This projector kicks mucho ass. Browsing slashdot on a 105" screen is simply amazing. Beats my ED 42" panasonic plasma hands down, daylight or not.
Useful Links:
www.projectorcentral.com - check out the recommended pj list
www.avsforum.com
Re:Don't even THINK about buying a projector unles (Score:1)
Forget both of those (Score:4, Interesting)
The screen technology they use throws the vast majority of the light directly forward in a fairly narrow cone, concentrating it powerfully, so the brightness and contrast has to be seen to be believed. Even when viewing in daylight.
This set absolutely rocks for viewing movies.
Surprisingly despite its size, the set is no deeper than a conventional TV and will fit against the wall without sticking out too far. In fact it sticks out just far enough that if you are using external speakers, the front of the set will be just about flush with them. Perfect.
As for price, this TV cost me quite a bit less than a low-end 42" plasma screen. With none of the picture quality deficiencies inherent in plasma screen displays.
The only thing that would beat my TV is a good quality ceiling mounted CRT projector. And you know how expensive those are.
BTW I coupled this with a JVC DVHS machine, and the picture quality of my digital off-air recordings is indistinguishable from the original, even on this monster screen. I doubt most DVR recorders are that good.
digital light (Score:3, Informative)
Digital light, in case you don't know, means a projector with an array of MEMS-controlled mirrors reflecting light at the screen. (When they talk about flipping a pixel, they really mean it!) These projectors can handle a lot more light without needing a noisy cooling fan, and should last longer than any of the current competing technologies, despite the expense of a good projector.
Wait a little if you can (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wait a little if you can (Score:2)
Re:Wait a little if you can (Score:1)
Re:Wait a little if you can (Score:3, Informative)
> used unless in controlled settings.
I'll agree with that, but it seems that talking about HT sort of implies that. I don't usually go to the den and fire up the whole rig to watch a sitcom or the news. To me the HT is basically a twice-a-week affair for sit-down movies and popcorn, and with that kind of usage a projector is perfect and would last a long time with a 3000 hour bulb.
Plasmas myths and facts (Score:3, Informative)
-macado
I apologize before hand if any of this information is incorrect. Feel free to correct me.
Re:Plasmas myths and facts (Score:1)
Re:Plasmas myths and facts (Score:1)
Re:Plasmas myths and facts (Score:1)
Thumbs UP for Panny Plasma (Score:2)
Yeap, I'm still on the Plasma honeymoon -- going on 5 months.
VisualApex is *THE* place to order from. Very professional, and great prices.
I had considered the Grand Wega II, but the Plasma visual quality is simply unbelievable. Check avsforum if you really want to know how the two compare.
Proof?
Rich Harkness's Plasma screenshots...
http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/l i nk_to_all_film_g alleries
This thread has great tips on tweaking the Plasma.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show
The gateway plasma's really are not good... (Score:2, Informative)
If you care at all about actually being able to... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:If you care at all about actually being able to (Score:1)
Sanyo HD-10 [216.68.161.74]
[jvc.com]
JVC QX1G
There is also at least one RPTV that has 1080 LCOS panels in it. Hitachi maybe?
plasma vs. lcd vs. projector (Score:5, Informative)
Where I work I use NEC 42" plasma screens daily, I have 2 friends with 50" pioneers plasma screens and have worked with sony plasma's previously. I have several 17-18-19" LCD's for work and 1 friend with a Panasonic LCD TV ( I believe it is 36" diag). We also use several runco hd-dlp front-projector/wall-screen set-ups and 1 samsung rear-projector dlp-tv.
In all cases if you sit closer than 6-8 feet to the plasmas' then any you will constantly notice jaggies during normal tv viewing and several types of ghosting/artifacts during any high speed action sequences. The NEC's cost us about US $9k
The problem is that you buy a big screen for just that reason - real estate - and if you have to sit 10 feet away then it defeats the purpose because then your new 61" whizbang looks the size of your 27" whatzit you started out with.
Enter the LCD, They have better control over jaggies but then you are very constrained when it comes to viewing locations - you basically need to be directly in front and within about 8 feet in a well lit room in order to view it comfortably.The pc screens all run about US $1k, but the tv ran my friend US $5k.
Projectors are all about tweaking, on 2 of our runco sets we have rooms with one wall entirely of glass i.e. tons of sunlight, and the projectors are set to throw a 72" screen from 8 feet away (they are ceiling mount) and they are beautiful to see in action - no jaggies or artifacts and colors are spot-on. But it did take about 3 days of tweaking to get that with all video sources.And they cost about US $7k per set-up.
Our primary Runco set-up is a 14footx8foot screen with the projector set 20feet back. This was because even after going through all the specs before hand, the darn thing wouldn't give us the full image from the 16foot distance reccomended by the factory install team.
And after 2 weeks of tweaking the image is barely viewable with all lights off, the images ae fuzzy and color alignment is all wrong; we have to replace the bulb about every 3 and a half weeks @ US $600/bulb; and this was their top of the line dlp from 2 years ago -almost US $20k.
The samsung rp-dlp is beautiful in action and doesn't have any issue with ambient light in the room, however it did run about US $5k.
For a home setup, I have a great 36" toshiba digital tv. Complete with component connections and a sony HDTV tuner + PS2 + gamecube.
This gives the best cost/performance ratio as it cost only US $1200 plus another US $1200 for the tuner, which isn't included with any of the other set-ups.
Bottom Line: Get out to all of the showrooms you can and actually look at these things in person, You will be surprised at how good your current set-up actually compares to what is available out there.
think out of the box (Score:1)
Re:think out of the box (Score:2)
http://www.microopticalcorp.com/Products/
http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Hardw
New flat panels cheaper? (Score:1)
Neither Plasma Nor LCD (Score:3, Informative)
1280x720 DLP [samsung.com] (rear projection)
Flat CRT [candescent.com] (still under development)
Inorganic Electroluminescent [ifire.com] (still under development)
Electrostatics & Suspension [eink.com] (ambient light, still working on color)
Electrostatics & Revolution [gyriconmedia.com] (ambient light, still working on color)
Electrostatics & Interference [iridigm.com] (ambient light, no plans for larger modules!?!?)
Plasma vs DLP/LCD (Score:1)
No TV is best solution (Score:2, Funny)
Suggestion
1)No TV, this is my preference but compromise is the key to a long marraige so...
2)13" all in one CRT type with tape and DVD for $149. It fits nicely on the oven when not in use.
3)Buy my 1000 surplus 10.2" 640x480 dual scan, 7mm thick LCD panels for $10k and make your wall into a TV (black and white though
Re:No TV is best solution (Score:1)
Four Words (Score:1)
Sony XBR Grand WEGA [sonystyle.com].
'nuff sed.
Haven't checked prices in a while, have ya (Score:1)
Or $699 for a Samsung 27".
Or $999 for a 30" widescreen flat-face CRT from Samsung or Philips.
Or $1299 for a 32" HDTV Wega CRT...
Need I go on? (This was from a quick search at Best Buy.)
Stay away from LCD (Score:1)
I've played with several LCD projectors - the kind used for presentations, and they were always bad. They always had poor contrast.
About plasma I don't know much, but it's still worse than normal CRT technologies. So the answer is, either use a digital projector or just wait for the LED (or organic led) world.
Interested in 105" HDTV Plasma $5,000? (Score:1)
I recently purchased both the 42" Panasonic Plasma EDTV for $3800 and the Sanyo PLV-70 LCD PJ + 105"Diag Dalite HiPower tripod screen which you can get for $4,500.
The Panasonic is regarded the best Plasma in this price range period. However, the Sanyo kicks so much serious ass, I never would have bought a plasma.
Think 105" screen Plasma!!! I'm dead serious.
Pan