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Verizon PTT (Push To Talk) vs Nextel's Direct Connect? 47

Posted by Cliff from the cell-phones-become-walkie-talkies dept.
Amp300 asks: "I am currently a Verizon Wireless customer in the Detroit area. I am thinking about getting a Motorola v60p and upgrading to the Verizon's new PTT (Push To Talk) service. Is anyone familiar with the v60p? I have heard the battery life leaves a little to be desired. I am familiar with Nextel's Direct Connect, but I have been told that the two services are slightly different. I was wondering if someone could make an educated comparison of the two services?"
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Verizon PTT (Push To Talk) vs Nextel's Direct Connect? More

Verizon PTT (Push To Talk) vs Nextel's Direct Connect?

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  • It's a Phone. It is *not* a CB (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    why do both services mimic CBs? Why are they so loud that I can hear what both parties are saying? Why do people shout when using them? And why must they emit that anoying beep?

    It's a phone. Sure, implement PTT if you must, but make it work like a phone. The user must be able to keep the phone next to his ear and speak in a normal voice.

    • Re:It's a Phone. It is *not* a CB (Score:4, Informative)

      by aberson ( 461047 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @04:37PM (#6787354) Homepage
      EVERY NEXTEL has a button whose SOLE purpose is to turn OFF the speaker and allow you to use the PTT functionality by holding the phone to your ear. The button icon looks like a speaker. Learn it, Live it, Love it.

      People either just don't know about it, or want you to hear their conversation. If you have a vibrate feature and the phone is on your belt, there are few reasons why the speaker should EVER be on.

      If you don't have vibrate, you're forced to leave the speaker on if you want to receive the initial call, but it's still quite annoying when people connect to you and immediately talk. Instead, how about you just "beep-beep" them and give them a second (if they're even free) to turn off the damn speaker and then answer you.

      same as with phones in movie theaters, it's not the technology that needs adjustment - it's the user.

    • PTT is used mostly for buisness use, and mostly by construction workers. The normal use for PTT is not to talk to one person, but to the entire crew. When the foreman asks the boss how something should be done, after getting the answer he turns to me and says "you heard that, now go do it".

      Just today I heard several conversations between the foreman and the boss that I had a interest in. Some I heard and forgot as they were of no interest. Some I commented on afterwards. Some I provided more inform

    • And why must they emit that anoying beep?

      (for the i95cl, most models should be similar)
      From the home screen press the menu button, scroll to settings and press select. On the settings screen scroll to Ring/Vibe and press select. Next scroll to and select Call Alert. You can now change the ring tone used by DC to any ring tone stored on your phone, you can also set it to vibrate or be totally silent.
      • If you can change the Direct Connect beep on a i95cl it's the only one, but it is the top of the line phone. I have had an i500, i1000, i60, i90, and now a i88 and NONE of them let you change the DC beep, I always had wished they would.
  • The Verizon system takes longer to connect than the radio based nextel system. This is because it is in effect making a call over the cell network. It still should be faster than a cell call, because it immediately answers on the other end. However, it'll never be as fast as walkie talkies.
    • Nextel IS a cellular system. Any delay in Verizon's system would be because of compromises made to make PTT fit into their existing infrastructure. In the fundamentals, however, there is virtually no difference between Verizon and Nextel, despite any and all marketing hype.

      • Re:From what I hear... (Score:2, Informative)

        by David F. ( 15140 )
        Nextel is a combination of a trunked two way radio system and a cellular system. Nearly every piece of infrastructure in Nextel's system has special capabilities designed into it to handle direct connect calls, which makes it extremely fast.

        From an infrastructure standpoint, there are many, many important differences between Verizon and Nextel. Nextel's push-to-talk was designed in; Verizon's was bolted on. That being said, I haven't tried Verizon's yet, so I can't speak to its performance.

    • Different services (Score:5, Informative)

      by mrscott ( 548097 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @05:11PM (#6787774)
      While they achieve the same goal, Verizon's service was shoehorned into their existing network while Nextel's was designed differently from the ground up. Nextel uses a separate frequency/signal for PTT stuff. http://www.howstuffworks.com/question530.htm.

    • Re:From what I hear... (Score:4, Informative)

      by cyan ( 370 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @06:38PM (#6788681) Homepage Journal
      I just wanted to note, as someone who used to work for Nextel, that there's a common misconception that Nextel's 'Direct Connect' service is a real radio or walkie-talkie. Naturally, all cell phones are just complex radios, but DC doesn't magically turn your cell phone into a traditional simplex radio.

      The difference is that the iDEN protocol was built from the ground up for DC, so Nextel's DC service will always be faster. You should still consider a 'Nextel DC' to be the same as a 'Verizon DC' insofar that they're both still cell phone calls, but with a little higher priority in navigating through the network.
      • During that blackout the other week, regular cells in the my area (White Plains, NY) died. My buddy's Nextel wouldn't dial out, but direct connect worked. There must something very different about the way direct connect on Nextel works. I was under the impression that phone to phone connections are made, bypassing the network.
        • Dispatch calls are not directly phone-to-phone. They go through Nextel's system just like a phone call, as they have to locate the other person, determine if you can initiate the call and they can receive it, record billing information, etc. But the infrastructure does have separate boxes that handle setting up interconnect calls and dispatch calls, and dispatch calls are completely internal to the system. Perhaps Nextel's link to the regular phone system was down at the time?

  • Blah (Score:1)

    by arrow ( 9545 )
    I'm sure Google [google.com] could give you the info [google.com] you [google.com] need [google.com]. *sigh*

  • I hate these things (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SoCalChris ( 573049 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @04:43PM (#6787437) Journal
    Am I the only one who hates these things? I can't even go to a restraunt without some idiot sitting on the other side of the place talking into one of these and broadcasting thier conversation across the whole room.

    And besides, what is the point? If you are talking to someone on one of these things, you both obviously have a cell phone that is getting service, why not just call? Will the extra few seconds of ring time and saying "Hello?" really take that much longer?

    • Re:I hate these things (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Zack ( 44 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @05:00PM (#6787658) Journal
      I was on Nextel using an i85s [cellphones.ca] which has "Direct Connect" until I switched to a Treo [handspring.com] on Sprint.

      Anyway, PTT is one thing I miss terribly. A good number of my friends and family are on Nextel. The ability to be able to buzz someone and speak and then turn off is very convienent. It's sorta like IM in that respect. You can say something and not have to wait on the line until the other person responds. My brother and I used this feature when we were setting up a wifi run that was two miles long. We could have sat there with the phone on all the time, but instead we just got to push give the information we needed and wait without keeping the phone up to our ears.

      Oh, and Direct Connect doesn't HAVE to be on a speaker system.... I never had mine do that unless I was by myself (apartment, car, etc)

      --Z
      • Ok, I can see now where it would be useful. I guess I've onnly seen people being idiots on them and didn't see the use of them. Too bad more people using the things don't realize they don't have to be on the speaker.
    • > And besides, what is the point?

      $0.02 a minute

      Makes sense to me

    • I can't even go to a restraunt without some idiot sitting on the other side of the place talking into one of these and broadcasting thier conversation across the whole room.

      Because they aren't clueful enough to send the "walkie-talkie" function audio out the ear piece instead of the speaker. All of my engineers and myself carry Nextel phones.

  • VzW PTT (Score:2, Informative)

    by ross_winn ( 610552 ) *
    Full Disclosure: I work for a verizon wireless agent. I do not work for verizon wireless. The PTT service will be a plus for some customers and a negative for others. The PTT with verizon will give you access to the largest cellular network in the US. This will eventually mean you will get more access with VzW PTT than with anyone else. Right now the service is limited to those people who have it, but that will change rapidly, espescially when number portability becomes an issue. The V60p has an extended b

    • Re:VzW PTT (Score:3, Interesting)

      by XO ( 250276 )
      In addition to what ross_winn said (who should be moderated Informative, please), I should add:

      I also work for a Verizon Wireless agent, not Verizon directly.

      In addition to having a much larger network that PTT with Verizon will operate on, there are a few other advantages:

      As he mentioned, the v60p is much smaller than most Nextel's.. as far as I know, it's smaller than ALL Nextels.. It's the same as a regular v60 with a third button on the side.

      I have yet to hear about battery time - I haven't

      • Re:VzW PTT (Score:2, Informative)

        by Tintivilus ( 88810 )

        It's the same as a regular v60 with a third button on the side.

        No, it's not precisely -- the phone is marginally (3/16"??) thicker to accomodate the internal speakerphone (req for PTT) and its requisite acoustic cavity. This means the the V60p is the same size with a standard battery as the other V60's (c, g, t) are with the super extended (TDMA) battery.

        • OK, my apologies for erring on that. I know why I thought that -- the beta test model that I played with did NOT have the speaker phone built in! So it was simply a v60 body with the third button.

          Thanks for the correction, though.

      • Nextel seems instance, because it is "quick enough" that you don't notice that it isn't. However there is about a half a second lag time. (I have not measured it). I only know it exists because I was in the car talking to someone in the car next to me (we met for lunch and were going opposite ways out of the parking lot) and could watch her lips move, and a moment latter hear what she was saying.

        For all practical purposes NexTel has no lag time. For all engineering purposes Nextel has lag.

        • Nextel phones contact towers once a second, so on average you will have a half second delay (waiting for the reciving phone to contact a tower so a connection can be established) using DC. Most other cell systems contact towers once ever 6 seconds so on average there should be a 3 second lag to connect.
          Aparently Verison compensates by keeping a full connection after the first contact is made, so the lag only apears on the first PTT message.

          Disclaimer: My brother works for Nextel, and I have an employ plan
        • Nextel seems instance, because it is "quick enough" that you don't notice that it isn't.

          Am I the only person who has ever had two Nextels in the same room, to measure how instantaneous it is?

          I can tell you, it is no more than a second-- the delay provides the exact echo effect you need to do a perfect imitation of Gehrig's "Farewell to Baseball" speech [lougehrig.com] ("...today, I consider myself the luckiest man..."). :-)

          ~Philly
  • I hope it works better than my buddies V60. His randomly erases his address book. He has been told he needs to send it to motorolla for an update, this will be the 2nd or 3rd time it has had to be sent back.

    • I've got a V60i (I think, the manual was for a g, but PO claims i). Anyway, my phone's gotten worse recently. I'll open it up to check for voice mail, as it'll be quiet for awhile, and notice that it's just a blank display. Nada, zippo, zilch - dead. Turn off, wait, Turn on. My Dad (Verizon) and Sister (Cingular) have V60s as well that they've both had replaced.

      I like the phone, but I think they were shipped before really ready.

      • I don't remember if he had a g,i or an s model of the V60. Maybe they are all bad. He also occasionaly gets unreadable text messages that are only a character or two. Funny thing is, he doesn't subscribe to the text message stuff.

  • I use nextel all day (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Beowulf_Boy ( 239340 ) on Monday August 25, 2003 @07:14PM (#6789018)
    I work at a Very large landscaping company, until friday when I move to college.

    Anyways, I'm the yard boy, I load everything from bags of mulch and sod, to running the bobcat or loader and loading trucks and trailers with soil or mulch.
    My company uses Nextel radios. Basically, any one who is a not a laborer(the guys who do nothing but sit on their ass all day and drive dumptrucks, they don't get one, they use a motorola CB type setup) gets one, that means every foreman, equipment operator, and everyone on up to the owner has one, and is on my list.

    It works incredibly well.

    A typical conversation goes as such
    BEEP BEEP
    "Logan, copy"
    "No, STFU"
    "I need 3 bags of mulch and 20 pieces of sod loaded"
    "Bitch say what" (this must be said very quickly and quietly)
    "what?, repeat that please"
    "copy that, 3 mulch, 20 sod"

    The only problem I have with them is
    1. The batteries barely make it through a 12 hour day, sometimes, and sometimes they are fine. It could be because I have an older phone and battery though, about 1.5 years old.
    2. Its to easy to accidently call someone, I bump the button while in the bobcat all the time, cause the seat belt is right there. There should be two buttons to hold down to initiate a call.
    3. Sometimes the voice is garbled, even though I have full tower.
    4. The plastic belt clips are prone to breakage, but I do beat them quite a bit, I jump off the loader all the time, and always hit the damn phone up against stuff. But I've had to replace the clip 4 times this summer.

    Other than that, its awsome to be able to quickly talk to anyone I need to right then and there.
    • As a Nextel administrator for a Construction company and Nextel user myself I can relate to some of your points.

      1.Batteries are shyte. Even when brand new and fully charged you're lucky to get a full day of usage.

      2. The accidental calls is something that is more common with the older model phones (ie. I1000 or earlier). All of the newwer model phones use a different menu system similar to that of other Motorola celluar only phones.

      3. The tower spacing for Nextel is crap. In my area (MA, RI, CT) it is as

      • 1.Batteries are shyte. Even when brand new and fully charged you're lucky to get a full day of usage.

        Not the new ones. I have an i90 here, with a used battery from the iDEN test lab (regular production battery), and it can easily last me an entire weekend left on. If I plug it in every night (which I usually do), I never have to worry about emptying the battery. Even with plenty of use here at work, I've had my phone on for weeks on end.

        3. The tower spacing for Nextel is crap.

        Agreed - this is proba
  • Nextel's service is based on a proprietary system called iDEN. It's Motorola-specific, and only works with MOT equipment. (Ever notice that?)

    VZW's PTT service is based on Voice-over-IP. The Push-to-talk stuff isn't a standard cell call, but rather runs over their 1xRTT data service.

    That's why all the other cell companies are having problems ramping up PTT; it's a Voice-over-IP service, which means you need a functional data network in the first place. Since VZW has the most extensive data network, it
    • Motorola devceloped the iDEN protocol in-house, so Nextel uses mostly Motorola phones. The iDEN service itself runs over an IP network, so Verizon (plus AT&T and Sprint, who are also working on their own PTT services) are basically duplicating Nextel's setup.

      Anyone considering Verizon's PTT service right now should keep in mind the only way they'll be able to PTT is if they (and anyone they want to PTT) replace their phones. Also, Verizon seems no better than Nextel when it comes to pricing. Many p
      • The iDEN service itself runs over an IP network, so Verizon (plus AT&T and Sprint, who are also working on their own PTT services) are basically duplicating Nextel's setup.

        Just because they both run IP doesn't mean they're anything alike. In Nextel's network, the dispatch calls are carried around between base stations and controllers on an IP network, yes. On Verizon's, the calls are carried on their wireless data IP network, which itself is carried on top of another, existing infrastructure networ
    • yeah, too bad Verizon is interfering with other networks. they don't filter the output of the PA. It's wreaking havoc on ours. yay verizon >:[
    • Nextel's only work with Motorola equipment because Motorola is the company that invented Nextel's iDEN network. Also, if I remember correctly, about 3-4 years ago, Motorola bought a signficant part of Nextel. Brilliant idea. Buy a cell phone company, use a network you invented, and make it only use your phones. First they make PowerPCs, then Nextel. Anybody know how much stock in this company costs?

  • How does silent mode work? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Paul Carver ( 4555 ) on Tuesday August 26, 2003 @11:52AM (#6794635)
    I'm one of the non-believers, I guess. I'm often in situations (theatre usually) where I don't want my phone making noise. My phone is on vibrate only mode nearly 24x7.

    Also, I often let calls go to voice mail if it isn't a convenient time to talk. I do this not only when I need to be silent, but also when I'm just in the middle of something and don't want to be interupted.

    Finally, I work in a building that shields cell phone transmissions. Several times a day I will get close to a window and my voice mail indicator will let me know how many people left messages and I can call them back.

    How would PTT deal with any of these, quite common, situations?

    • I know the old Motorola i550 and i30sx have a speaker mode/handset mode for the PTT. You can use the PTT next to your ear like when using the cell phone. It does make one beep at the start of the converstation but is very quite afterward. I assume it allows for better privacy during PTT calls.
  • i've been considering the PTT thing as well- many of my friends have Nextel (i have Verizon) and they use the Direct Connect constantly to talk to each other. but i think they do it more because they have unlimited dc minutes than because it really makes sense to use it (like it does for people who work on construction sites and such). my question is will phones on different networks ever be able to talk to each other? i'd be a lot more apt to get PTT if i could use it to talk to my Nextel friends. but as
  • I used Nextel's for a year at one business and they were generally more a hassle then not...

    First off, the walkie-talkie speakerphone stuff is annoying. I always used it on earpiece/vibrate... but I never knew if the other end was or not, so I always found myself talking in code in case the other party was in a less then ideal environment (happened ALOT).

    Nextel's network is great if you use it in an area where they have service, like the Metro Boston area... the moment you leave Metro Boston (up north pa

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