Are You On Time To Work? 328
gravitie asks: "I'm a developer in my local area. I'm on what is supposed to be 'flex time', so I can work the hours that my boss and I see fit for me to fullfil the number of hours I'm required to get a week. Besides this I must clock in at 7:30 AM every day I am at work. If I clock in at 7:31 I am late, no questions asked. If I am late 3 times in one quarter I get a verbal warning. Next time I get a written warning, then it just goes down hill from there (docked pay, etc..). Is this standard in todays business world? Should 1 minute late really be considered 'late'?"
Why a fixed time to come in for work? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why a fixed time to come in for work? (Score:3, Funny)
are you working in some sort of slave labor camp?
No, this is not normal. Get away from that company as fast as you can. Soon they'll be requiring you to ask the line manager for toilet breaks.
Daniel
Re:Why a fixed time to come in for work? (Score:3, Funny)
Now, now. The line manager is a very busy man, and doesn't have time to field your every request. So long as you catch his eye as you clock out to go to the toilet, you'll be fine.
more on toilet breaks... (Score:3, Funny)
And you'll have to make due with the 4 single-ply sheet toilet paper ration they give you, no matter how dire your bowel conditions may be.
I agree, get outa there!
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Why does a professional have to clock in? (Score:3, Insightful)
Even when you're on a salary, your hours can be billable to a customer.
Even when I'm a salaried professional, I don't have a problem with "clocking in" and/or keeping a timesheet. But saying that 9:01am is late, no questions asked, is just plain wrong unless there's a good reason for it (e.g. customer support contracts requiring the phone/email to be manned during certain hours). Even then, though, I'd want it negotiable.
Re:Why a fixed time to come in for work? (Score:5, Informative)
At my job, my boss tells people that "he's usually in between 8 an 8:30". I try to be in by 8, but my boss knows I'm scheduled to leave at 4:30, but it's more like 5:30 (or later, sometimes much much later) everyday. They are really leniant about that because "it all works out in the end" so he [my boss] likes to say. Of course he says that because I work more hours than I'm paid for, but that comes with the territory. I'm willing to trade that off to be treated like a proffessional, and not like I work at McDonalds.
Now back to you, you are getting screwed.
Re:Why a fixed time to come in for work? (Score:5, Funny)
I've got flex time. My boss comes in at 8:00. I come in at 10:00. No problem. My boss leaves at 5:00, I leave at 5:01. No problem...
Fixing Corporate Culture and Values (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't be late (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't be late (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, if you're a Nazi or like working at a boot camp. In the real world, the majority of well-run places I've worked at are flexible enough so long as you get your work done and don't take things to extremes like 3-hour lunches... The responsibility is also there that nobody should feel like you're dumping your workload onto your colleagues.
A boss who's into kicking heads will not get as much value from his staff as one who rides with a looser rein.
Re:Don't be late (Score:3, Interesting)
This isn't the 1950's anymore. Most companies I know of allow engineers and programmers to work on real flextime. Its much harder to manage employees in this mode but it is also easier to keep happy employees. What matters is that the work is getting done, not when its getting done. For that matter it shouldn't matter how many hours your spending if your performing at or above average. The hours one is a bit of a two edged sword thoug
Re:Don't be late (Score:2)
Having that sort of requirement seems to imply that your company considers its employees to be little more than robots. That's fine if you work at the local McDonald's, but for an IT firm that's unforgiveable.
Daniel
Re:Don't be late (Score:2)
But still, that's some !%!@$! bad business to start taking action against employees who are one minute late a few times in a quarter. I know employers want their employees to be on time, but this is because of a deeper want to have their employees be productive. An employee who starts their day with a big panic because they hit some bad traffic and are going to come realllly close to the magic 7:30 is
Re:Don't be late (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Don't be late (Score:2)
For instance - we don't know that 7:30 isn't the time he agreed to under these terms. I do believe that a professional organization doesn't need a time keeper. Yet if the organization has a union involved some where you can bet that someone grieved against the professional bunch and t
Re:Don't be late (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't be a GUMP. DO NOT WORK FOR FREE. It's a JOB not a HOBBY.
If you kiss enough ass, they'll give you a low-level management position which means signing responsibility with no authority or budget. All you get is the promise of middle management if you can continue to kiss your way up the hierarchy. Now you are responsible for the work that other people do, and there is so much that THEY can't do it all so YOU can't do it by yourself either. If you try to climb the corporate ladder, you will always have someone else's ass in your face: you will always be someone else's bitch. You will be OWNED like the tool that you are.
You will have no control over who you manage, but you will be ENTIRELY reliant on your direct reports. Their failure will be your failure, and you will have no way to influence them except to be an asshole because you will not have discretion over enough company resources to get results the nice way. You must achieve control, or you're going to recieve the sum of your staff's bad reviews. Being the new guy you will prolly get the scrub staff that nobody else wants. You'll have to kiss their asses too sometimes.
As for this:
Are you autistic? Do you understand the words that you are saying? Are you reciting the employee manual verbatim? Do you realize that if anyone hears you say this crap outside the scope of an HR job you will be branded a fool and laughed at behind your back? People will like you at work if they HAVE TO because they get ADDICTED to the services you provide. You are the pusher and your boss is the junkie. Repeat that. Deliver. Repeat...Being CONSCIENTIOUSLY late to work is TIME MANAGEMENT. Actually: you're on time if you accomplish what you promised to the people who are asking for your effort. As an employee, you must DRAW THE LINE to balance the priorities between your personal life and your job. If you fail to do this you are a WAGE SLAVE. You must not allow your job to expect too much for you to keep your personal life on track. YOU must manage the expectations. YOU must set the goals that YOU can deliver.
Familiarize yourself with the FLSA (if you live in the US), and avail yourself of your rights. Know that the overtime exemption for computer workers does not apply to jobs where you have no DISCRETIONARY POWERS. Usually DISCRETIONARY POWERS are interpereted that they necessarily include the discretion to come and go as you deem necessary in order to fulfil your professional responsibilities. If you do not have DISCRETIONARY POWERS to decide how to fulfil those responsibilities, then you are NOT EXEMPT FROM OVERTIME.
Get a Lawyer. Work your 50 hours. Record them carefully in a little book, and get someone on the level to initial the enties. Send your payroll department a notice of the unpayed wages. If you can't get results without involving the lawyer charge them a late fee to cover legal costs incurred in collecting what you were legally owed anyway.
Erm, try reading your contract. (Score:5, Informative)
Your contract tells you your conditions of work. If you don't like having to be there at 7:30, read your contract. If they're the rules, and you still don't like it, you're free to get another job. Obviously, most people don't work in places where being a minute late a half dozen times can get them sacked, but perhaps you do. If it troubles you, stop whinging and do something about it.
Re:Erm, try reading your contract. (Score:5, Interesting)
No. Things don't work like that. I know there is this popular myth that contracts can transcend law, but the law always trumps. Imagine if a contract said "in this job you will be sexually harrassed and you can't complain about it". Not legal. Any contract that violates the law isn't binding.
In the scenario described, if he is 1 minute late 3 times in a month, his pay is docked. Pay docked for 3 minutes of tardiness per month? I'm sure there's a labour law that specifies a limit on penalties for tardiness. The contract cannot impose penalties higher than those limits.
Now for the rant. I'm really pissed off with cunts like you whose answer for everything is: "if you don't like it, leave". That's not a fucking answer. You're exactly like the braindead fucks who pretend that the way to fix a country is to get rid of all the dissenters. Fuck you.
Re:Erm, try reading your contract. (Score:2)
contrary to popular opinion, quitting without an attempt to right the situation IS the WRONG way. Consider the trend in society and one's personal life that fallow such actions. Also, the only outcome of this would be another person being put in the same situation to have the same issues to deal with.
a free people do not quit(give up) like this. a free people fix the problem.
secondly, "arrogant fucks" like nathanh are the ones who built this country(USA) and most of the free world, by not bein
Re:Erm, try reading your contract. (Score:3, Funny)
Hey, if you don't like those types of answers, you're free to quit reading slashdot.
Re:Erm, try reading your contract. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Erm, try reading your contract. (Score:5, Insightful)
At the time, the workplace was very motivated, and people worked all kids of unpaid overtime, with no prompting from management.
However, when management went on a rant, everyone started coming in at 8:00 am, but stopped working atexactly 5:00.
It seems that their focus on "minutes" cost them hours in free labor, and caused some bad feelings.
On another note, I've supervised people before, and dealt with this problem. The trick is not to be a slimy PHB. If you've got somebody that's always running late, tell them to come in on time and don't act like a weasel! It really does work
Getting to be that way (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Getting to be that way (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess we had issues being treated like that, and all the managers getting Jaguars as company cars.
Re:Getting to be that way (Score:3, Insightful)
Along with the man hour as a measure of the amount of work that can be done, finicky rules like that tend to reduce the amount of goodwill on both sides of the employer/employee fence, and a happy empl
I'm late in (Score:3, Funny)
I'm supposed to be in at 9:00, but pretty much everyone gets in when they feel like. Then again, I don't leave work until almost 7, so I still put the hours in, and beat the traffic into and out of work.
Re:I'm late in (Score:4, Funny)
I been workin' on the railroad (Score:5, Insightful)
How does having your biggest asset -- your employees -- breaking out in a sweat for being a minute late (and probably spending half the day worrying how many more late days they have in their "quota" before being punished), make the company more competitive?
How does explaining that your company has more petty rules than the local McDonald's franchise attract the best and brightest employees?
Don't get me wrong: some coordination is necessary, so that employees can confer with their fellow employees. But a goodly number of people aren't at their best at 7:30 (I sure as hell am not), and won't do their best work if some Pointy Haired Boss greets them each morning with a stop-watch in hand. This creates resentment, not loyalty.
Times are bad in IT right now. If the past is any guide, at some point in the not too distant future, times will be good again, and employees will be more scarce. And employees (and potential employees) will remember how the company treated people in these lean times.
I expect the poster's company will have a terrible time attracting talent at that point -- if they haven't already gone under by then, because only the most desperate and talentless of their employees won't have found jobs at a place that doesn't treat knowledge workers like unskilled factory workers.
In defense of them unskilled blue collar types... (Score:5, Insightful)
I expect the poster's company will have a terrible time attracting talent at that point -- if they haven't already gone under by then, because only the most desperate and talentless of their employees won't have found jobs at a place that doesn't treat knowledge workers like unskilled factory workers.
While in general I agree with everything you've said, I'd caution you to be just a little more temperate in your choice of language. Factory workers must be punctual because the assembly line can't move unless everyone is present at their posts, not because they may or may not lack some particular set of skills or aptitudes that a different worker or type of worker might or might not possess.
Time was that Americans understood they were to treat all their fellow citizens equally. Granted, if you're a typical /.er, your childhood and adolescence were inundated with the propaganda of class warfare and class hatred, and that's about the only kind of political discourse you've ever heard, but it was not always so, and, for what it's worth, there are plenty of us out here in fly-over country who pay reverence to the old ways.
Re:In defense of them unskilled blue collar types. (Score:3)
33% pro-labor
33% pro-business/entrepreneurial
33% in the middle
1% anal retentives who notice that the first 3 items don't add up to 100%.
I adhere to the notion that the 1/3 in the middle doesn't post in these threads. As for my work experience, I've had one job where signing in and out was the norm, and that was a bargaining unit ("union") hourly position. As AC notes, there are valid reasons for fixed time slots in the workday (want your fireman showing up late f
Sure they aren't Out to Get You? (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you being one minute late is having a direct and profound impact on coworkers or clients (and that's extrememly rare, military, cults etc.) I'd guess someone is after you.
It's a really bad sign, even if nobody is after you. A rule like that is an indication of a dangerous nitwit manager who will make worse decisions in the future. Those future bad decisions will not be "Free lunch in the breakroom on Tuesdays" but may include memos like "Omission of the cover sheet on TPS reports will result in docked wages (applies to hourly employees only.)" or "Mandatory lunchtime meeting in PHB's office, please bring vaseline."
Management is free to make whatever decisions they like within the law, but that doesn't make all their decisions right, or even sane. If the rest of management doesn't find a problem with this, you're in hell.
Mind you, I like to get to work early, but since my commute could vary from 45 minutes to over 2 hours, depending on the limits of human stupidity, I was occasionally late. Fortunately, my employers were more interested in the performance of duties which were:
In my job description
Actually provided value
If you can't find out what this is really about, and get the one minute rule ameliorated, then mind your P's & Q's while you look for other work.
You get what you pay for (Score:4, Insightful)
As a small tangent, I would like to describe an excellent example from real life.
I haven't read any recent salary surveys, but... Someone I know, let's call him Jim, runs a small business (about 20-30 employees).
He needs 2 programmers on staff. He is forever complaining to me that he has the most crappy programmers, and that all programmers are lazy, self-centered sons of bitches.
Nice. Especially since I'm a programmer.
Well, I found out why he has such trouble. He hires a programmer. He expects them to be there by 8:00a, but that they are on time so long as they arrive within about 5 minutes of Jim getting there (random time, between 8:00 and 8:30 -- usually closer to 8:00. If Jim is really late, (9:00 or later) then the programmers had better be already hard at work when he arrives)
In addition, he starts to really harp on these guys any time they leave before 5:00 or if they leave before him more than a few times.
He takes the "the staff should be already working when the boss arrives, and still working when the boss leaves" mentality, but tries to be slightly flexible about it.
In addition, he pays his programmers $40K - $45K per year.
I talked to Jim about this several times, saying something to the effect that if you treat your programmers as if they are worthless, you will not attract the creme of the crop.
Besides, if a half-decent programmer with a degree can go anywhere and earn $55K - $70K (at the time -- early/mid 2000 these rates were very easy to come by) why would he work for you when you are both really aggravating AND are paying way way less.
His response? You programmers are so arrogant. Why should I pay you that much, you're not worth it. You're all lazy and incompetant.
So... he gets crappy programmers... and wonders why...
Re:I been workin' on the railroad (Score:2)
That's an easy one. When you dock somone's pay, you save money.
Yeah. Maybe if we make them come in at 3:00 AM, we can get them working for free.
But seriously, you've got to figure in the cost of recruiting a replacement after you've docked him the third time and he quits in disgust.
from the "you have my sympathy" department (Score:5, Interesting)
The respect and latitude my boss has given me has earned him a less than 3 minute pager response time and a "yes" every time there is a weekend problem or a 2 am "Can you go in and fix it?" When he needs a long day, I'm there. My record so far is 25 hours straight, on-site.
Not flex time (Score:2)
Re:Not flex time (Score:2, Insightful)
I would flee (Score:4, Interesting)
We need you to be in between 11 AM and 3 PM so we know we can schedule meetings with you. Please warn us if can see you aren't going to be able to make it one day.
Other than that, no monitoring, no punishment and other bullshit.
I don't want to work for someone who doesn't trust my common sense. I feel the same way about dresscodes.
UK Flex-Time (Score:5, Informative)
Re:UK Flex-Time (Score:2)
Typically, I'm unaffected by this, as I start at 8am and leave at 9pm to stand any chance of hitting the current deadlines. Pah.. looks like my rebuild's nearly done...
Re:UK Flex-Time (Score:2)
My flexi-time in the UK was 10 - 3:30 core hours, 37.5 hours a week.
AFAIK, US working conditions really suck compared to Europe. There are barely any regulations at all. No minimum holiday requirement (European countries by law specify 20+ days a year), no working time directive (Europe < 48 hours a week). I don't see the point of working personally if you only get 10 days holiday a year on average!
Re:UK Flex-Time (Score:4, Interesting)
We were expected to consult with our team and amend our hours to be reasonably coherent: an all-early-arriving team would expect new members to arrive early, for example.
Since it was my first work experience, I thought it was normal. I've since learnt that it was an outstanding system for all concerned: the company calculated its employees were working an extra 12 minutes per day for free on average, and we thought we were being treated as humans.
flex? doesn't sound like it to me. (Score:2)
other than that, get over it, and get the managers to call it other than flex time.
though, the system you're working under sounds utterly stupid, there's factories that have more 'flex' system than that(the systems can count minutes, and even pay or award extra days off after you get enough overtime). in a 1 minute system you definetely don't get the real slackers out of the payroll(because they'll show up to check in, and then go to their office and stare at the wall,
Re:flex? doesn't sound like it to me. (Score:2)
Read Slashdot ? Uh, what are you saying ? I'm not reading Slashdot.
Does it cut both ways? (Score:2)
If (as it would appear from their management style) they are a sinking ship, you could content yourself with leaving just as promptly at the end of your shift, and arranging that your departure occurs when you are midway through a sentence talking to your boss.
When he asks ask why you are going ho
Re:Does it cut both ways? (Score:2)
Daniel
You Bet (Score:2, Insightful)
Should 1 minute late really be considered 'late'?"
Let's rephrase it:
Should 1 minute early really be considered 'early'?"
Being on time is easy. Your boss knows that it is easy, so when you are late, it is a great big "fuck you" to his desires. Of course, occasional tardiness is understandable, and even sometimes unavoidable, but that you can't drag your ass out of bed or leave the house five minutes earlier is not your bosses problem.
After all, the only important difference between an adul
Re:You Bet (Score:2)
How about I trade you that 1 minute late time, for the 5+ hours I stay late, the lunch I skip and the weekends I work?
Respect goes both ways.
Re:You Bet (Score:5, Interesting)
By that same token, "adults" don't need to arrive at exactly a particular time of day to do thier work in a non-service field, nor do "adults" expect that of thier peers. Calling "neya-neya, you're in trouble" and givng out "warnings" and "discplinary actions" is what you do in school, not in business. It's childish, plain and simple.
Re:You Bet (Score:4, Insightful)
No it is not. Not everyone sleeps like a log, regular as clockwork. Not everyone has reliable transport. What happens if there's a serious accident and they close the motorway for 3 hours? Why is 1 minute so important? There are 450 minuts in a 7.5 hour working day. 1 minute is less than three tenths of one percent of that.
Why do some employers treat their workers with contempt, condescention, and suspicion? Why are they so irrational? Whay purpose do such arbitrary rules serve? If timing has to be so precise, surely a machine should be doing it.
Doesn't add up (Score:2)
Those excuses don't add up.
Sure there will be bad traffic once in a while, but not often enough for the 3 time rule to kick in. Most companies will have a lot of folks late on that day and strike it from your record.
Everyone has a day where they oversleep. If it happens often you need a better alarm, and to start getting better sleep. (This is complex, if you go to bed too early you might have more trouble getting up than if you go to bed at a normal time) There are medical sleep centers that can help
Re:Doesn't add up (Score:2)
Ah, you have not experienced traffic is southeast England then. The M25 and its tributaries are frequently closed for hours at a time.
If you have to be in on time, you should learn what traffic is like, and plan to be early enough everyday that normal traffic variences can be covered.
I find teleworking a much more satisfactory solution.
I was merely making the point that having authoritarian working rules
Salaried? (Score:5, Interesting)
Depends.... (Score:5, Informative)
Now the last couple of managers its been 7-5 and 9-6 with maintenance at night. Hours are like the east coast, 9 hours including lunch, we use to be westcoast hours, 8 hours with lunch.. They also shit-canned telecommuting for our groups. They also axed OT, made everyone salary. Increased the work hours to 55+ also. Hired 1 night time guy, but he cant ever do all the work, so someone has to come in and help. Then the oncall pay went away, comp time went away.
Basically, depends on what your manager will fight for your group. I look around at other groups, and see they still have core hours, etc. But ours wont. Each manager can run his department the way he wants, wink wink nod nod.
As an old unix sys-admin, used to be noon to night, get out of my face. Now im in at 7:10 (late on purpose) and skirting a PIP, just for the hell of it. I tell you thou, when its quitting time, im gone. The "You need to stay late to get this project done" times are getting old when your a paid slave. I hear it only takes 9 to bring the telco union in. Humm, they specialize in IT/IS groups now...
YMMV, IMHO, and all that jazz.
Re:Depends.... (Score:2, Informative)
Maybe its time to Unionize.
Depends... (Score:2)
But, if a minute is "late" then you work for somone who's too strict with the rules. You SHOULD respect them, however... but likewise your employer shouldn't be asking you to stay a minute after 6:01 (or whenever you get off).
Some things more important than others (Score:2)
Comparing when I expect to get paid to when I get in is invalid. The two are not related. I work the hours I'm paid to work, they pay me for working them. A mistake on my part doesn't give them any reason to not hold up their end of the bargin. They may dock my pay if it is part of the rules, but they still pay me on time.
It isn't just that they shouldn't turn about. Companies that don't pay their employees on time are telling everyone that they are nearly bankrupt - they can't even pay employees. Su
Make the best of it... (Score:5, Funny)
If I clock in at 7:31 I am late, no questions asked. If I am late 3 times in one quarter I get a verbal warning.
Well, at least if you're running one minute late you can make the best of it and go out for breakfast, coming in 3 or 4 hours late.
Re:Make the best of it... (Score:3, Funny)
Man no wonder americans are so fat if you spend 4 hours eating breakfast! How longs a 3 course dinner? 17 weeks?
it varies (Score:5, Informative)
I was always on call, both with cell and pager, vpn access from home. I strolled into work sometime before noon (and somedays slightly after) but normally worked till 10 or 11 pm, regardless of when I came in. I worked at least a 60 hour work week.
When production ramped up, it went from 60 to 80 hours. Then from 80 to 100 hours. When the project was finished, I went back to my old schedule of comming in at 10, but since little was left to do at the time, I would leave about 5 or 6, cutting my work week down to 35 hours.
Others in the company had a more strict policy. Similar to the one described above. These were artists, some of which didn't function well until 10 am, but were still expected to be in for the 5 minute 9 am meeting. What was once a bunch of artists that did everything it took to get ahead in the work became a group that did just what was needed to get it done. The mandatory 9-6 schedule with the hour lunch at noon and 2 15 minute breaks drove them insane and ultimately turned a group that got things done before time and under budget into a collection of disgruntled people who were running behind and over budget. The sadest thing was that the management did not pick up on it. Sometimes a little bit of freedom is what is needed to get things done right.
The logic behind strict start times (Score:3, Interesting)
A: "When do we want people to start?"
B: "7am."
A: "Hmm, that's a bit early. What if they're late?"
B: "We'll punish them. Dock their pay, something like that."
A: "Okay, punishing is one solution. But it would be better if we could get them to just be here on time."
B: "Tricky..."
A: "Hey, how about we say the start time is 7:30am but then we really hit them hard if they're late?"
B: "Yeah, that could work."
Really strict rules are often intended to achieve something slightly different.
But of course I could be talking a load of rubbish, it's just a suggestion
Re:The logic behind strict start times (Score:2)
A: No. We pay them from 0730.
B: We suck.
A: Correct!
B: Why don't we treat them with respect?
A: Because we don't understand respect having never been afforded any ourselves.
B: Pass the KY, bitch.
A: Here you go. Do these pants make my ass look big?
B: Can't you just shut up for a change?
Re:The logic behind strict start times (Score:2)
Once upon a time I worked for a company with a policy that one male member of staff must stay behind for 15-30 mins each night to help the manager lock up. I threw many hissy fits about this because my attitude was, we don't get paid for lunch breaks (because it's "our time") so we should get paid for that enforced 15-30 minutes of "our time" lost by staying to help lock up. Fair enough, right?
The issue got to the point tha
Well, (Score:3, Insightful)
Future ask slashdot questions (Score:4, Funny)
I know it costs $0.48 to mail something, but I only want to use my $0.47 stamps. Can't something be done? It's only $0.01 difference. Sometimes I'll be willing to pay $0.49 to make up!
Does anyone know how to go 130 kph when the speed limit is 100? I mean, people keep giving me tickets. Can't something be done about this? Really, the rules should be changed.
If your hours are stated in some form of contract, then honour it. If you don't like it, try to work with management. If that doesn't work, you can literally quit your job.
If you don't like getting there early and having nothing to do, bring a book, bring some music, bring an audiobook, etc, etc. The worst that can happen is that on days where there's traffic/construction, you won't be stressed out because you'll be 3 mins late for work. Instead, you'll arrive there 20 mins early instead of 30.
In all honesty, it does look disrespectful to other people when you get there late and most everyone else got there on time (or early). Especially those that travel longer distances to get to work in the first place.
Shouldn't Be, But Is (Score:2)
In a perfect world, one wouldn't be subject to insanely retentive morons who consider being one minute late a punishment worthy offense. As should be obvious these days, this is more of a pessimal world. So the best course of action is probably to make your target arrival time 7:15. Sure, it's another 15 minutes of uncompensated time out of your life on top of the hour or so you already lose to travel to and from the job, but at least you're employed.
Respect for others (Score:2)
There are several reasons for following these rules, and some may even apply to you! :-) One reason is that you should not work too much and get burned out. Ano
What's Clocking In???? (Score:2)
As someone has noted above, read your contra
WTF? (Score:2)
Last Tuesday (not yesterday) I was supposed to be at work at 6AM for copyout. My alarm never went off, so I woke up at 6. I got to work 90 minutes late (I'd called and left a msg for my boss telling her I had to shower and would be in ASAP.
Not so much as a stern talking to when I got there. Sure, I had to stay late but my regular work days (aside from copyout) are 7-4 anyway.
This was the first time I've *ever* been late to a job
I'm always late after lunch (Score:2)
The HR department deducts this tardiness from my salary but he always authorizes it to be added back. Those folks really hate my boss because of this.
The Henry Ford Approach (Score:2)
Henry Ford (paraphrased, in reference to the Model T): You can have any color you want, as long as it's black.
Your Boss: You can show up anytime you want, as long as it's at 7:30.
Very unprofessional (Score:2)
When companies suddenly become Nazi-esque regarding things like time reporting, it usually means that they are targeting people for termination. At most places, the little rules only are enforced when management wants to get rid of someone of flex their muscle.
That being said, if you have flex time available to you, pick a start time that is compatible with your commute an
A wizard is never late (Score:4, Insightful)
Can't you have someone else clock you in? (Score:2, Informative)
You could have a buddy clock you in or something.
Many guys at factory jobs clock in/out for other guys and people just leave the site.
I worked at Johnson Controls, making car interiors. Sure, factory job, but you've gotta clock in on time or else. You'd get fired and they'd find someone else with a pulse to take your job.
At Best Buy you had to have a manager punch you in/out if you weren't within 7 minutes of your scheduled time. This way they can control hours down to the minute.
At Applebee's they have
Back in the '70s... (Score:4, Interesting)
I used to work for a government department that inflicted this sort of thing on me as well. It never worked for me because I would sleep in despite my best efforts.
As a result, if I slept in I would just phone in sick. Being sick was a lot more acceptable than being five minutes late, no matter how much more expensive it was to the organisation. We had rules about being sick that required a doctor's certificate only for sick leave in excess of two days, so no matter that nobody actually believed I was sick, they couldn't pull me up on it.
When I left I'm afraid I had no respect for that kind of clockwatching (well, given my behaviour I guess I didn't have a lot of respect for it to start with :-), and I still don't.
Every job I have ever worked in since then I have made damn sure that nobody gives a flying F*** what hour I leave or arrive, in general. Of course there are occasions when you need to be on time - it just isn't an every day sort of rule around any workplace I have worked at since, and it never will be in the future.
Some jobs require it, of course. If you are in a customer service position in an organisation that opens at 7:00am, then I would expect repeated lateness to be a perfectly reasonable cause for dismissal. I wouldn't expect the owners of such a place to say that your hours were 7:00am - whatever though: I'd expect them to be (e.g.) 6:30am - whatever, so that turning up 1 minute late would not be an issue.
That'll be 2c, please.
Self Discipline (Score:2)
Why don't you start going in at 7:00? If you clock in at 7:01 (or even, <gasp> 7:07) you'll still be "on time."
Traffic will probably be a hair better on the way home too.
Well, got to go. I'm running late for work!
-Peter
I Don't have a job (Score:2)
You insensitive clod
Push Into Overtime (Score:2, Informative)
Back in my teenage years I worked for McDonald's and they required me to punch a timeclock.
They basically calculated your hours to the nearest 1/4 hour and you paid (if you could call it that) to the nearest quarter hour.
If you were 2-3 minutes late, not a big deal.
If you were 10-15 minutes late, you'd start getting comments from an assistant manager and after some number of such incidents unreliable employees would get canned, pretty much as you would expect.
The interesting thing was that I would some
That's insane (Score:2)
I come in to work any time between oh, 8am and 10am and leave approx. 8 hours later. No one bothers me as long as I get my work done on time. I regularly eat lunch at my desk, and don't spend much time chatting, so I'm fairly productive. I've always thought this to be more or less normal in the work environments I have been in.
Sure, some employees raise an eyebrow if they see me
Uh, no? (Score:4, Funny)
Then again I work until whatever time is required when a project is due and my boss knows that I'll bust my balls when it's needed.
I could work in a structured environment like that if I was required to, but I wouldn't put in the extra effort. If 1 minute late gets me written up, then 1 minute late clocking out would too. 8 hours, get up and go.
It's all in the relationship.
Docking Pay (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Docking Pay (Score:3, Informative)
This is absolutely true. Docking pay will change your exempt status. In essence, if they dock pay, you will also be entitled to collect overtime if you work more then 40 hours according to the Fair Labor Standards Act. A grey area in the FLSA is also dockking pay for things such as doctors appointments. Though not clear in the FLSA, many employers do not dock pay this area b/c they risk chan
Oh man... I thought we were the only ones! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it's just that companies are trying like mad to shift the base definition of work, given that ecomomic circumstances keep most of us as a captive audience. When the economy picks up and we all start to bail, they can "negotiate" a more relaxed environment again, which won't do more than return to the status quo of a couple of years ago. I agree that it seems short-sighted to treat your employees like children... any of your employees.
That said, I'd also add that my group is extremely lucky that our managers stood up to say "we work on infrastructure, so we can't work 8 to 5 like everyone else." They could have just as easily said "a 40-hour week? my people will be thrilled! no more late nights and long weekends!" Other departments weren't happy with that ("why does I.S. think they're special?"), but they don't have to show on several weekends a year for routine maintenance and system outages.
Get another Job (Score:2, Insightful)
Hell, even when I was in the Navy, nobody bitched about a minute or two here or there, as long as it didn't become a habit. Except for that one job I mentioned before, I've worked for places where as long as I was productive, the time didn't really matter. Most have had expectations that I would work a "normal"
It doesn't sound like flex-time to me... (Score:2, Insightful)
I can work the hours that my boss and I see fit for me to fullfil the number of hours I'm required to get a week. Besides this I must clock in at 7:30 AM every day I am at work.
That doesn't sound like flex time to me, in fact, your two statements sound contradictory. You can work the hours you see fit, but you have to clock in at 7:30?
Problem is, that doesn't really matter. The terms of your position say you must clock in at 7:30 AM, so that's what you need to do, regardless of whether or not anyone e
A smokescreen? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm sure this doesn't apply to you, but sometimes they try to use some nit-picking thing like this to get rid of someone they don't want for other reasons...
Exempt? or Non-exempt? Know the rules (Score:5, Informative)
1)It sure doesn't sound like "flex" time, unless 7:30 is the latest start time. Let's say your day is 7:30-4:30 - does he allow you to start at 7:00 and work till 4:00? If not, it's NOT flex time
2)The minute he starts docking you for time, you are no LONGER an "exempt employee", and they MUST, by law, pay OT!! Even if they SAY you are still "exempt" (what most people call salaried), if they dock time in LESS than FULL DAY increments, they don't live up to the Federal Law.
Remember other law rules IF you are non exempt (some may be NY law - check)
1)(Federal) They MUST give you a paid 15 minute break for each 4 hours worked - this is why you get a 30 minute lunch.
2)You can NOT be required to work more than 6 days in a row. After 6 days, you must be given a 24 hour "off period"
3)They must pay you 1.5x Base Salary for all hours over 40 hours/week
I had a boss (MANY years ago) who was doing about what your boss is trying to do - play fast and loose on the OT, but have us on the clock. One day, one of the other employees got in touch with the Dept of Labor (I never did find out WHO, but I think I know). About 3 months later, we all got a nice certified letter, explaining exactly what my boss did wrong, what the rules were, and the best part? A nice check for all our back OT. Being all of 20 at the time, and not earning all that much, that extra few weeks pay was nice (the OT stuff had gone on for a couple of years before the complaint). The most interesting part was they were not allowed to call us "exempt" again for a BUNCH of years, and they had to keep paying OT. We eventually got our flex time, and other perks back, but if we were in for more than 40, we got 1.5x
You could always punch the clock (MAKE sure you are on time), make SURE you work at least some OT every week, (keep your own records), and make a call to the labor dept in a couple of months
poor baby (Score:2)
Work From Home Rocks... (Score:3, Interesting)
1] Wake up at 7:50am.
2] Log into VPN, AIM, VNC right around 8:00am.
3] Work until 5pm.
4] Log off of VNC, AIM, VPN.
5] Profit!!!
Although sometimes here lately I'm working past 5pm, or working some really weird schedules because that is when things are going on. But I get comp time, which really is cool.
Answered your own question... (Score:2)
<Snarky reply>
Yes, though other definitions of the word "late" can be submitted to Merriam-Webster for inclusion in their products if you have some new ideas.
</Snarky>
OK, by most standards, that policy is pretty harsh. It's probably designed to weed out the primadonnas. But there's an easy solution: just show up 30 minutes early EVERY DAY. 30 minutes is NOTHING. If you can't make a habit of showing up at 7:00, it's because your ego is gett
uh, dude, that's horrible (Score:2)
This meant I was never stressed about time, and could focus on more important issues like debugging and testing.
I feel for the poster (Score:3, Insightful)
A year ago or so ago I was working for an employer whom... well.. I really had some problems with.
Before I start, please note.. I was working salery...
It was typical for me to give large amounts of overtime for this company. (did I say give.. I mean it was EXPECTED of me)
A lot of times, I ended up LEAVING the building, around 11 pm... yah.. close to midnight...
There where also a couple times where I ended up staying even past then... one time my boss tells me "Umm, I have to have this done by tomarrow morning before my flight out to taiwan" me asking "Why didn't you tell me about this sooner?", boss tells me, "I just remembered it".
So I get to stay in the office until 4 in the morning making sure my boss has her shit together.
Lets not forget being sent to a customer site, expected to fix a problem our manufacturing department in taiwan made... and expected to stay there every day... for weeks if need be.. working 9-10 or so until its done. (If you dont do this, the company could go out of business they tell me)
anyways... you get the idea. So add ontop of that.. the fact that my boss was always on my case about being an hour or so late.
"You need to stop coming in late luke, we will have to dock your pay", to which I reply, "You need to stop expecting me to work 14 hours a day, or allow me to come in late."
Literally.. at the time.. I did not mind working the hours I did. The thing that bugged me was that they gave me shit if I came in any later than 8 am. (Look, if I go home at 11 pm.. and get HOME at 12:30 pm.. and get to bed around 1:30 pm... you cant expect me to be up at 5:30 am, and out of the house at 6:30 am
anyways, needless to say.. after TRYING to work things out with management and getting exactly nowhere.. I quit =)
On my way out the door to go to work... so I cant spell check or anything =) But anyways... thats my story.
Watch the clock at the OTHER END of the day, too! (Score:4, Interesting)
We have similar sillinesss popping up at my job occasionally. This in spite of the fact that I have in the past come in for a system upgrade or repair on a Friday and still been at work the following Monday evening.
You never get those hours back. As Scott Adams (Dilbert) says, "Work will take what give it." and never even say "Thank you." With that in mind you're nuts not to give exactly the 8 hour day work is requiring and not one minute more.
I would LOVE a time clock. (Score:4, Insightful)
They want to clock me down to the second? Fantastic. THEY get clocked to the second also.
You are not on flex time (Score:3, Insightful)
Based on my experience, no this is not standard in the tech industry. It IS standard for production lines. If your boss is trying to run developement like a production line he is either an idiot or an asshole, probably both, and you should be looking for a new job.
Bullshit. (Score:2)
Stick to it.
If your boss is a compulsive workholic, and irredent slacker or both it is not your duty to show any support.
Re:Bullshit. (Score:2)
Do what you need to achieve your goals. If you goal is to work at the same job forever, stick to your contract. If your goal is to get promoted, out-perform your requirements.
Your contract only states what the job requires of you. If you stick to your contract, you're performing according to expectation. You'll probably get a 3% raise to cover inflation, and that's it. Soon you'll have that young new guy who joined ten years after you as your boss because he exceeded requirements rather
Re:Bullshit. (Score:2)
Or make an effort, do a good job, and then move somewhere else on the back of a track record that says you get things done. This doesn't require 90 hours weeks and sucking up to your boss. In fact, it's well known that people who are well-treated by the employer, who don't work stupid numbers of hours, and who maintain a good work-life balance, are generally far more productive than those who submit to abuse.
Re:Sensible Adjustments (Score:2)
Daniel
Re:Sensible Adjustments (Score:2)
So, now they clock in at *exactly* 7:30.... and when asked to "just stay back 5 minutes to do (x)", they think, "well, fuck you. I clock in a 7:30, I clock out at 3. Seeya."
Even if they don't actually *say* that, they're thinking it subconsciously. If your company is unwilling to allow *1* minute leeway, well, it works both ways and employees will be a lot less willing to go above and beyond because of it.