Free (as in beer) Windows Flowcharting? 71
bhtooefr asks: "I need a flowcharting program for use in one of my programming classes at Central Ohio Technical College, and I can't afford to spend much money. The instructor recommended that I use Microsoft Visio, but it's way past my budget (and I can't obtain it for free). I've tried a free trial app (SmartDraw), but I didn't like the UI at all. Kivio won't do the job, because the free version is only for KDE, and Kivio MP isn't free. However, if there's a Kivio port to Windows that is free, I'd be rather interested. Any ideas here?"
Visual Thought (Score:5, Informative)
Better still, get KDE-CygWin... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Better still, get KDE-CygWin... (Score:2)
Pretend it doesn't exist... (Score:2)
He's got one. (Score:2)
Several issues with any "Just use Cygwin" solution (Score:2)
Is installing Cygwin+XFree86+KDE as easy as Next, Next, Next, Next, Finish, or does it take experience getting one's hands dirty working at a command line and reading code? Does it Just Work(tm) almost all the time, or does it misdetect the environment or otherwise fail to actually work on some hardware/OS combinations? Does the Cygwin layer introduce an unacceptable speed hit on the OP's computer? Do Cygwin, XFree86, and KDE take up gigabytes of disk space?
Re: Several solutions with "Just use Cygwin" (Score:2)
Re:Visual Thought (Score:1)
Heard of Dia? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Heard of Dia? (Score:2)
Re:Heard of Dia? (Score:2)
Re:Heard of Dia? (Score:2)
That was a couple months ago, perhaps things have improved. The linux version worked well enough...
Visio rules (Score:2)
Re:Visio rules (Score:2)
Personally I do without what I am not willing to pay for in software. Not because I think copying is morally wrong, but becuase I don't want to be complacent in Microsoft's market domination. If we all copy MS products illegally, then we can't complain that the Free eqivalents aren't up to snuff, they wouldn't have any users!
And this isn't even a political free software p
Re:Visio rules (Score:4, Informative)
There is nothing wrong with paying $60 for a very well designed and useful piece of software. Visio is a stellar product, which is why MS bought the company.
Re:Visio rules (Score:1)
Inertia and habit is what is killing progress and evolution a whole
Re:Visio rules (Score:1)
I, for one, consider Visio vastly superior to dia. *shrug*
Re:Visio rules (Score:1)
Re:Visio rules (Score:2)
The Kompany market Kivio & the templates the way flow charting software should be!
So I use it when I can.
Re:Visio rules (Score:1)
Re:Visio rules (Score:1)
I have faith that someday, Dia will reach it's level, but unfortunately, us poor students don't have the time to wait for it's development, nor the time to help much with it's development.
100% open source just isn't practical sometimes.
Try Dia (Score:2)
Re:Try Dia (Score:4, Interesting)
* Having to go through 3-5 clicks just to change a width or color of a line -- gimme a break.
* Can't apply changes to group of objects.
* Annoying menu structure -- it is even worse than that of The Gimp.
* On Windows -- it's just too quirky and to slow (which largely GTK+ problem, admitted by the porters, hopefully will get better, eventually...)
One can use Dia if one has to -- but it really is *not* a drop-in Visio replacement.
Speaking of which -- with each new release it (Visio) gets worse...
Re:Try Dia (OT) (Score:1)
If you switched from Windows to Linux . . . (Score:2)
...I would be stuck at a command line. (Score:1)
Switching from Windows to Linux may not always be feasible. I acquired a copy of a Mandrake 9.x series distro. I told Mandrake to install in a dual-boot configuration with Windows 2000. It autodetected my Radeon 9000 video card as a "radeon", but when I clicked Test, X no worky. Are you now saying I need to buy all new hardware just to run Linux with usable X11?
Dia (Score:2)
I've never used Kivio as I also don't run KDE, so I can not compare the two, although I am sure I will get at least one response that says Kivio is much better and vice versa
Flowcharting? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Flowcharting? (Score:1)
Re:Flowcharting? (Score:2)
design. It's used as a means of converting
unstructured flow into a structured flow, and of
doing top-down design.
Frankly, it's one hell of a lot more useful than
UML. Anyone can pick up a flow chart and understand it.
It takes an understanding of OO to understand basic
UML. Then there's the candy sprinkles on top.
Re:Flowcharting? - slightly off-topic. (Score:2)
You are correct about the global data space, but for just working out what do next, Nassi-Schneiderman flowcharts are cool, as you have to think about the scope of your loops and if statements.
Nassi-Schneiderman diagrams [techtutorials.com]
How to Draw Nassi-Shneiderman Diagrams [thern.org]
In a quick search, I have not found any free Nassi-Schneiderman flowchart programs. I know that Visio included a stencil... don't know if it is still t
Re:Flowcharting? (Score:2)
A flowchart is an abstraction, and does not necessarily (in fact seldom does) describe software in its entirity.
A flowchart can cover the logical flow of a single function, a stateful class, an algorithm, a user interaction sequence, or any other level of granularity. The data required is global within that view of that part of the system -- that could translate in implementation to local, member, namespace or global variables.
Nothing in a flowchart requires the use of "goto" in implementation. The mo
Re:Flowcharting? (Score:2)
A flowchart is an abstraction, and does not necessarily (in fact seldom does) describe software in its entirity.
A flowchart can cover the logical flow of a single function, a stateful class, an algorithm, a user interaction sequence, or any other level of granularity. The data required is global within that view of that part of the system -- that could translate in implementation to local, member, namespace or global variables.
Nothing in a flowchart requires the use of "goto" in implementation. The mo
Programming Flowcharting = UML (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Programming Flowcharting = UML (Score:2)
Free (as in beer) Windows Flowcharting? (Score:1)
dia (Score:3, Insightful)
Get it here: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia/ [lysator.liu.se]
It works with windows or linux, you just needs the gtk. And if you use gaim for windows, then you've already got it.
http://gaim.sf.net [sf.net] IYDAK
You can get a cheap student edition (Score:2)
and old editions are available for less than $30
A flowchart? Holy 70's, Batman! (Score:2)
Flowcharts haven't been a particularly useful tool for program design
since people stopped writing primarily in assembler.
And they're tedious and time-consuming to construct.
And they're out of date the day after they're created.
I had no idea that they were still taught.
Re:A flowchart? Holy 70's, Batman! (Score:2)
if nothing else, it gets you to understand what a compiler has to do with that awful mess of c code you wrote...
some people find some form of program flow documentation to be quite useful... a flow chart is one way of doing this... if you have a nice diagraming tool, it's not a huge deal to make them, and if you have the right level of abstraction, the flowchart isn't going to change all that much over the cou
Re:A flowchart? Holy 70's, Batman! (Score:2)
Amazing how many people quote this crap without any understanding what they are saying.
First, understand that "flowchart" is a concept, not a particular notation. It is, quite literally, a diagram that describes a logical flow that includes sequences and decision points. Here is a sample definition [techtarget.com]. Search for "flowchart" and you will get hits on organisational structure, process management, Six Sigma, project management, and yes, software development. State and activity diagrams in UML are a particula
MS Office and OpenOffice.org (Score:1)
Star Office (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Star Office (Score:2)
Free as in beer (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re: Your .sig (Score:1, Insightful)
dia (Score:2)
try... (Score:2)
easier said than done (Score:1)
Is KDE for Cygwin considered mature enough to Just Work(tm)? Can it run on less than the newest, most powerful machines?
Re:easier said than done (Score:2)
Dia (Score:2)
-Adam
ArgoUML (Score:2, Informative)
ArgoUML (http://argouml.tigris.org/)?
mspaint! (Score:2)
You *can* get Visio for free LEGALLY (Score:2, Informative)
- http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/e/0/6e
0 c5f5b-bb37-42bb-a189-bb66038fce2e/setup.exe
You're welcome.Run Knoppix, & use Linux tools on your Winbox (Score:2)
Re:Run Knoppix, & use Linux tools on your Winb (Score:2)
Just pop the Knoppix disk in, and see what happens (Score:2)
Dia is good (Score:2)
TCM (Toolkit for Conceptual Modeling) (Score:1)
TCM (Toolkit for Conceptual Modeling) [utwente.nl]
I found it on freshmeat.net [freshmeat.net] a few months back. I've done ER diagrams, UML, and even some network diagrams using the Generic Diagram editor.
Gantt charts? (Score:2, Informative)
Back in '89 it was really easy to produce and print Gantt charts using XML-like markup on an IBM mainframe. I had editor macros that would do things like change the expected end dates for a group of items, or change both the start and end dates.
Since IBM unplugged that mainframe, I haven't seen anything like that functionality. Everything is graphically based and so not automatable, or kludged up in Excel, or elderly share